LoL General Chat

[Tacos]

So after testing the Jinx changes on the pbe, I gotta say, I'm super happy. She feels just like she did before preseason, if not better, considering she now has the added benefit of bonus attack speed from her passive, something she didn't have before the preseason. Additionally, for shits and giggles, I tried a bloodrazor and guinsoo's build. That shit sucks. Would not recommend it.

[Shanco]

Honestly, based on everyone's comments on the changes, my hopes aren't high for these changes making it to live next patch.

Sona's nerfs are probably getting a revert, too.

[Shamitako]

In other news, Malzahar isn't as broken as I expected. Lame :c I was gonna spam him to death and win everything

[Avatar of Grima]

In other news, Malzahar isn't as broken as I expected. Lame :c I was gonna spam him to death and win everything

you mean Riots balance team actually produced something close to balanced? Whoa

[Avatar of Grima]

I hope Riot starts taking TT more seriously. I know the game is balanced around 5v5/Rift, but still.

I really hope Riot makes tt a little bit more fun to play on

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

So what items should I be building on Ahri and Zyra now? I used to take Morello because it was a great mana regeneration item with strong AP and CDR.

You should either go into the more support class ((or Util based mages items)) of items or more successfully play the mana game. Part of the point of removing mana regen from a lot of big ticket damage items etc... was because Mages are more about static pools of mana now not their regen... a.k.a making it so that they actually have a trade-off instead of literally everything you could need 100% of the time.

Now you have a choice, forgo some damage and get mana regen for more sustain in a fight OR, get more mana for a larger pool, but windows where you will be OoM. I wouldn't even say Morello's is horrible on either of them. It's still got strong AP and CDR on it but now just has mana rather than mana regen. Lost Chapter helps gain mana in lane as it gives you mana back on level up ((which in laning phase if you don't have some missing mana you're not using spells as much as you should be etc...)) so the item will still float you through the lane phase until you can pick up more items to make your mana pool more robust.

There's going to be itemization changes on Mages... we'll have to figure them out. It's a tiiiime of change folks lol. One where Mages might run out of mana god forbid LOL.

[Noir]

There's going to be itemization changes on Mages... we'll have to figure them out. It's a tiiiime of change folks lol. One where Mages might run out of mana god forbid LOL.

Athene's old passive is now on Morello, so I guess the mana issue isn't that bad. Athene's is now a pretty nice item for healing supports as it gives you extra healing based off charges you gain by dealing damage within an interval.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

things is Athene's is a Utility Mage item, it's not JUST for Support mages. ((both these classes overlap lol.)) as it also triggers on Shielding ((Lulu... oooooh boy!)) etc. So it's not a damage item and it's more suited towards a Karma, Morgana etc... many of the mages that lie in-between just doing damage, and having another purpose in the team. Will it be common in mid? Probably not, but it definitely has potential for the champs it would do well on ((probably not as a first item but in later teamfights it could be a great pick up.))

Basically, there's still ways to get good mana sustain on mages, you just have to work for it, or buy an item that is more targeted towards a utility standpoint.

[Shamitako]

TBH, I don't see much reason to stop going Chalice>Luden's>Athene's on Ori

But now I may start picking it up on Karma and maybe even Lux too

[Shanco]

Some mages will definitely prefer Athene's over Morello's and vice-versa for varying reasons

Lux now wants both Athene's and Morello's most games, but will almost always go Athene's first.

Karma will probably want Athene's to make her even harder to kill through the mid-game than she already was.

[Shamitako]

Wat? Why would you want both Athene's and Morello's? CDR is everywhere, just buying Zhonya's will overcap you with both now. Besides, 40% CDR isn't all that important, I generally find it better to focus on higher burst than more poke outside a few games

Also as far as I know, Athene's doesn't apply its burst heal from shielding on self-casts, so keep that in mind

[Shanco]

As Lux you will not buy Zhonya's every game anymore. Lux wants immense amounts of AP and 70 pales in comparison to other items such as Luden's, and Lux doesn't find always too much use for its active if you're playing her properly in TFs.

You will still want Zhonya's against hard engage comps with heavy AD assassins like Talon, Rengar, etc. In this scenario you will probably buy it regardless of the CDR cap, due to the value of the active; alternatively, you can also buy Luden's or Liandry's instead of Morello's but those two are comparatively niche when speaking to Lux.

She also chugs mana so both items help a lot here

Also as far as I know, Athene's doesn't apply its burst heal from shielding on self-casts, so keep that in mind

I'm honestly not sure about this because I never really looked into it, but if it did apply on self-casts, cool, but if not, it works out since Lux will, most of the time, often be behind her carries when fighting.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

It explictly is written on allies pretty sure but that has been used in very ambigous cases beofer and seeing as I've yet to play this patch.... weeeell I have no freakin' idea.

[Shanco]

Yeah, Morello's is pretty nuts on Lux now. I would recommend it 2nd/3rd after Athene's and maybe Rabadon's. However unless you are immensely fed, not a good idea to buy it first - it does very little to compensate for Lux's woeful mana issues in the early to mid game.

[foovy10]

I just made comebacks in my last 3 ranked games. What is life.

[Avatar of Grima]

I just made comebacks in my last 3 ranked games. What is life.

Some frank cool shit.

[foovy10]

Also I wanna say that ryze with roa+tear+morellonimicon+heart is broken. morello gives 400 mana PLUS 100 ap.

Viktor is strong in Korea. Predictions were made bois, the king is back.

Edited May 9, 2016 by foovy10

[Avatar of Grima]

Also I wanna say that ryze with roa+tear+morellonimicon+heart is broken. morello gives 400 mana PLUS 100 ap.

Viktor is strong in Korea. Predictions were made bois, the king is back.

Machine herald is fairly strong yes

[Shanco]

Also I wanna say that ryze with roa+tear+morellonimicon+heart is broken. morello gives 400 mana PLUS 100 ap.

Viktor is strong in Korea. Predictions were made bois, the king is back.

I dunno about taking FH over Zhonya's anymore except in pretty niche situations, but both push Ryze's damage to extreme levels. Zhonya's moreso however.

[foovy10]

fh gives more armor, cdr, and mana compared to zhonyas which makes it better on ryze. Also you don't really need the zhonyas active to survive since u not really a backline carry. I am not sure wether zhonyas or zh give more dmg but you use the stats on zh more then you do on zhonyas.

Ghost got EXTREMELY buffed

• "Cooldown lowered to 180 seconds from 210 seconds.
• Movement speed now scales up with level - increased to [28% at level one up to 45% at level 18] from 27%.
  • "Your champion can move through units and has 28-45% (depending on champion level) increased Movement Speed for 10 seconds."

Edited May 11, 2016 by foovy10

[diana]

ryze scales a lot better with AP after his rework, and if i remember you're not very inclined to build CDR on him since his spell reductions scale with Q cooldown- bulding CDR would lower the amount your spells get reduced by when in passive, i think? i'm not sure

as far as i've seen people go roa/seraphs/void/sorc/GA/???, and ive seen either abyssal or ludens or hourglass in that slot

FH on ryze just isnt the same was it was when he was a bruiser-ish mage near the end of season 4

ghost buffs are neat and i think make it a viable (not preferred) choice on twisted fate or singed or vladimir again

[foovy10]

It might not be the best build but I like having the armor since I go for enemy carries in fights and I sometimes become the main focus(I feel I should always be focused but some ppl just dont target well). Maybe in higher divisions I would buy the void staff instead but in this division with the way you are allowed to play, I just feel this suits this style better.

[Shanco]

I saw the posts on the screenshots thread, and theorizing that RoA could actually be a feasible first item, I decided to have a gander over a bunch of different sites and vids to find opinions from higher level players on Ori builds. Lo and behold, RoA is actually a popular first item on Orianna, about as popular as Morello's and Athene's. But there was more to it than that, obviously.

While there was a bit of contention in terms of what to start first, what to build and when to build it, the consensus was that the first item on Orianna varies between games and that no one first item is going to be a cover-all for every situation. Not Morellonomicon, not Athene's, not Rod of Ages. For example, you're not going to want to take Morellonomicon first, if at all, against a decent Zed since you're straight fucked post-6 if you're not prepared for his onslaught, and even against other passive champs you don't want to touch it if you're behind. You're also not going to take Rod of Ages if you need Athene's to assist a semi-squishy initiator like Vi or Kennen in teamfights, or if you need to compete with high-waveclear champs.

I also watched some vids and checked some things that LoL general chatrooms pointed me to (such as one of PowerOfEvil's broadcasts) for advice on the MYMU and which champs like building which item first. They made the case that while Morello's is pretty nice to have for the AP and its passives, Athene's isn't wholly outclassed, even on less support-y mages like Xerath; the healing passive works with summoner Heal which, seeing as Athene's passive nearly doubles Heal's potency, can be the (unexpected) difference between a teammate's life and death. Waveclear champs that get messed up in teamfights yet survive can use the Harmony passive to more easily recover and get back and take any defensive action they need to in order to minimize the damage.

Morellonomicon is a fat AP item that is perfect for a few different mages, like Ziggs and Ahri. Some of the more utility-ish mages like Karma will buy this instead of Athene's in order to assert dominance in mid-game or in lane if they're far enough ahead, as 100 AP is definitely not anything to laugh at. Unlike the others, it gives no defensive stats, no mana back without kills, and on top of that the dev team is looking at nerfing it in 6.11.

Rod of Ages had a lot of opinions of indifference, such as "it's alright", "it helps you live", "it does its job". I'm guessing the reason why it's liked by people using Orianna is because of Catalyst of Aeons's passive, which siginificantly amplifies her survivability and improves trades while sacrificing next to none of her burst. There are other sacrifices that you have to make for it, however, such as less waveclear due to the loss of CDR, as well as the other fancy passives that each item has.

[diana]

athene's working on heal is something kind of niche i feel? it's alright, but i feel like if it were actually used a lot it would bring about the two-tier nerf sandwich in hitting both heal and then athenes and leaving both feeling shitty (or even shittier)

i wonder if it's intended, but it might lead to an increase of flash/heal karma or lulu

catalyst passive feels really underwhelming unless you're a mage with large mana costs- yeah the healing adds up over time, but it takes so long for it to feel meaningful on champions like the aforementioned orianna given that your Q is going to heal you for less than 5 health until level 9. the upgrade into rod like i talked about earlier just feels underwhelming. however, i feel like tear into catalyst would be a really good combo IF the heal accounted for the mana cost before the 15% given back to you- maybe something to try sometime? as an item it just doesn't feel nearly as powerful as it did in the beginning of the season when it was a giant stat stick. i miss the old passive of health/mana restore on level up, because it cushioned laning into bad matchups

i don't feel like you should be building morello's if youre looking for defensive stats, in that case a hourglass or abyssal rush would make a lot more sense (especially now that they both give CDR in their path !!!!) as well as both being really efficient now. morello's feels like an item meant for pokey, zoning mages who are going to get assists in a fight no matter what unless their team gets flat out obliterated (in which case, unlucky, and itemization can't really save you if you get clean aced)

i disagree with not taking morellos into other passive matchups if you aren't ahead though- relatively cheap CDR and mana in codex/lost chapter can help with lane phase. the only matchup that would make me hesitant is into zed, but that's natural because you either take hourglass, eat shit, or make HIM eat shit if he's bad. likewise, the only time i would think about athenes if if i WAS incredibly behind and was basically relegated to shield/wave bot. it feels almost like building ardent censer albeit with a different interaction on sheilding- decent and viable, but only something you would do if you're a secondary carry with a MASSIVE primary threat, or a tertiary carry who got fucked in lane but still stays relevant because of your natural ability to fall back on utility that, regardless of the damage you do or not, can swing fights with a well placed shockwave

i put entirely too much thought into it but tldr

-heal/athene's is a weird interaction that i overlooked but wouldnt put too much stock in given that most mids dont take heal (azir, some orianna players, xerath are the only three that come to mind immediately)

-catalyst/roa feel underwhelming unless you set up your entire build to take advantage of it by going roa/seraph's and getting something like +198 mana from seraph passive. seraph's actually feels really nice with all of the flat mana in builds now!

-defensive mage items feel better to build. abyssal has a cheaper combine cost if you get all three parts and zhonya's doesnt feel like a "sit on one component for 12 minutes trying to get gold for the completion" anymore, with it's cheaper AP component- even though it gives less damage, it feels better than it did.

-morello>roa>athene's if ahead, roa/seraph's>morello>athene's if itemizing to build around it, and athene's>morello>roa if you're that 1/4 mid that's just getting camped to shit but you have a threat in bot and either top/jungle that can carry in your place

side note, cass rework feels incredibly hit or miss. you either stomp or get stomped, without any middle ground.

[foovy10]

I think I just made a correct guess when everyone else doubted me. I think its time... for a victory dance.

Guy Dancing

Edited May 12, 2016 by foovy10