LoL General Chat

[Avatar of Grima]

I saw the posts on the screenshots thread, and theorizing that RoA could actually be a feasible first item, I decided to have a gander over a bunch of different sites and vids to find opinions from higher level players on Ori builds. Lo and behold, RoA is actually a popular first item on Orianna, about as popular as Morello's and Athene's. But there was more to it than that, obviously.

While there was a bit of contention in terms of what to start first, what to build and when to build it, the consensus was that the first item on Orianna varies between games and that no one first item is going to be a cover-all for every situation. Not Morellonomicon, not Athene's, not Rod of Ages. For example, you're not going to want to take Morellonomicon first, if at all, against a decent Zed since you're straight fucked post-6 if you're not prepared for his onslaught, and even against other passive champs you don't want to touch it if you're behind. You're also not going to take Rod of Ages if you need Athene's to assist a semi-squishy initiator like Vi or Kennen in teamfights, or if you need to compete with high-waveclear champs.

I also watched some vids and checked some things that LoL general chatrooms pointed me to (such as one of PowerOfEvil's broadcasts) for advice on the MYMU and which champs like building which item first. They made the case that while Morello's is pretty nice to have for the AP and its passives, Athene's isn't wholly outclassed, even on less support-y mages like Xerath; the healing passive works with summoner Heal which, seeing as Athene's passive nearly doubles Heal's potency, can be the (unexpected) difference between a teammate's life and death. Waveclear champs that get messed up in teamfights yet survive can use the Harmony passive to more easily recover and get back and take any defensive action they need to in order to minimize the damage.

Morellonomicon is a fat AP item that is perfect for a few different mages, like Ziggs and Ahri. Some of the more utility-ish mages like Karma will buy this instead of Athene's in order to assert dominance in mid-game or in lane if they're far enough ahead, as 100 AP is definitely not anything to laugh at. Unlike the others, it gives no defensive stats, no mana back without kills, and on top of that the dev team is looking at nerfing it in 6.11.

Rod of Ages had a lot of opinions of indifference, such as "it's alright", "it helps you live", "it does its job". I'm guessing the reason why it's liked by people using Orianna is because of Catalyst of Aeons's passive, which siginificantly amplifies her survivability and improves trades while sacrificing next to none of her burst. There are other sacrifices that you have to make for it, however, such as less waveclear due to the loss of CDR, as well as the other fancy passives that each item has.

:/ welp, it all goes kind of back to what I said... I built for the matchup.... why did this become such a hot button issue.......

[Shamitako]

This is an absolutely massive hit to Middlesticks, one less bounce means one less chance to boop your opponent a second time, and it's all about booping your opponent ;n;

GIVE ME BACK MY BOOPS

[Talkla]

This is an absolutely massive hit to Middlesticks, one less bounce means one less chance to boop your opponent a second time, and it's all about booping your opponent ;n;

GIVE ME BACK MY BOOPS

But you get the massive buff through being a scarecrow after standing still for 5 seconds. Much stronger than that one extra boop!

[Talkla]

Taliyah is also available on live now. Lotsa fun chucking rocks at people!~

[Shamitako]

(Psst, there's an edit button that you should probs have used there)

Being a scarecrow is great, but that seventh boop was massively important

Hopefully AAing down the melee minions will still be an effective strategy for guaranteeing double boops

And also, gonna be hard grinding some IP for Taliyah, she looks hard but I really want to pick her up anyways, even if she isn't a poke champ

[Avatar of Grima]

(Psst, there's an edit button that you should probs have used there)

Being a scarecrow is great, but that seventh boop was massively important

Hopefully AAing down the melee minions will still be an effective strategy for guaranteeing double boops

And also, gonna be hard grinding some IP for Taliyah, she looks hard but I really want to pick her up anyways, even if she isn't a poke champ

she is fairly poke oriented with her Q, but her ult is going to be the biggest and most difficult thing to master.

[Shamitako]

Eh, she's more burst oriented imo

[Avatar of Grima]

Eh, she's more burst oriented imo

She's kind of both, however she should be fun when she finally comes out

[Talkla]

She has deceptively good burst, but isn't entirely focused on it. You'll be spamming Qs to do a majority of your damage and going for kills with Wing enemies into your E and throwing more Qs at em.

[foovy10]

Her ult is the most broken thing I have every seen. She can ult to bot to block their path to make them either flash the wall or fight 2v3. In lcs this ult will burn tons of flashes especially when enemy tp is down. Im gonna try to play her but based on her play style I dont think I will like her that much. It is kinda like Ahri where 99% you will need to land that charm to solo kill someone. I just feel like that Taliyah won't feel good to play. if you will your we combo u can't do much for like 10 seconds( dont quote me on that).

Edited May 19, 2016 by foovy10

[Shamitako]

Her ult is the most broken thing I have every seen. She can ult to bot to block their path to make them either flash the wall or fight 2v3. In lcs this ult will burn tons of flashes especially when enemy tp is down. Im gonna try to play her but based on her play style I dont think I will like her that much. It is kinda like Ahri where 99% you will need to land that charm to solo kill someone. I just feel like that Taliyah won't feel good to play. if you will your we combo u can't do much for like 10 seconds( dont quote me on that).

Uh, there's lots of ults that can force flashes or cause fight to move drastically in the ulter's favor? (See: Malphite, Ashe) Taliyah's ult is super good, but I honestly don't think its that broken

[Neo]

What are her scalings like? With her type of utility, I can definitely see her finding a place bot lane or even in the jungle depending on her clear.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Q

MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+ 40% AP)

MAXIMUM MAGIC DAMAGE:180 / 240 / 300 / 360 / 420(+ 120% AP)

For reference every stone after the first hit on THE SAME target deals 50% damage. THis ability is easily a poke skill AND burst in the same skill. Since you can move while casting it it can be spread out amoungst enemies but it can also be used to you know double down on one guy.

W

MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+ 40% AP)

More of a util skill but it's combo with E is how it does damage.

E

INITIAL MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 105 / 130 / 155 / 180 (+ 40% AP)

TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE: 160 / 210 / 260 / 310 / 360 (+ 80% AP)

TRIGGER MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 52.5 / 65 / 77.5 / 90 (+ 20% AP)

MAXIMUM TRIGGER DAMAGE:160 / 210 / 260 / 310 / 360(+ 80% AP)

so, the initial use does damage and slows, then you hit them with W ((does the damage above.)) and that throws them back through the e doing up to the max damage and THEN at the end they all explode dealing the initial damage twice. So, if you somehow get all of the damage to hit at max rank it will deal 720 damage ( +160% AP) + the 140 (+40% AP) from the W. So that combo all in all does... 860 (+200%) AP... which is... damage I think. Her clear speed I have no idea about but it would take until she gets to at least like... two skills to get it rolling etc... and with Q doing a total of... 420 (+120%) if you hit all five on one target... Look she more than makes up for not having a damage ult if you can land your shit.

[Shamitako]

The thing is that if you use it to poke your lane opponent down then you'll work all the earth and not be able to burst them

You can still poke with the diminished version while standing on the tiller earth, but it's nothing on the level of an actual poke champ like Karma or Varus where you can just repeatedly chunk them

She's much more heavily focused on combining her skills in bursts of damage

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

That's only taking Laning into account. There's typically a lot more moving in something like a teamfight so it'd be easier to not be stuck with a lot of worked ground around. ((trust me I know how that works. lol.))

Is she a 100% poke champ? No and I never said she was, but she definitely has some within her kit. She's more of a combo mage, but she's definitely got poking principles within her kit.

[Shamitako]

Well I was talking about my ability to play her

There's plenty of things that can poke but aren't poke champs, that's beside the point

The point is that she isn't a poke champ, and the things I play best are poke champs

[Dark Desire]

Uh, there's lots of ults that can force flashes or cause fight to move drastically in the ulter's favor? (See: Malphite, Ashe) Taliyah's ult is super good, but I honestly don't think its that broken

being able to block escape options in so many scenarios from across the map while also being able to travel and hop over terrain with an ultimate ability is completely insane, she's going to be competitively viable in so many ways, meanwhile she actually has decent bases and ratios with that

[DiLimiter]

Taliyah's base stats are pretty damn good, but her scaling ratios kind of suck. She's a combo champion, but has to make sure she has almost perfect positioning to utilize her full potential. She seems kind of counter-intuitive to me. That being said, I think that she'll be a highly contested pick in the long run with that ult. Solid champion.

[Noir]

Yeah, there are so many things you can do with that ult it's not even funny, and lining your E along it really punishes champions that can dash through it as well.

Speaking about walls, PBE is foreshadowing Zed and Azir nerfs. :s Zed nerfs are given, but I'm primarily upset about the latter as they're already making him more and more difficult than he already is. Reduced Zed's Q/R scaling but (but upped extra damage of additional Qs) whereas Azir can't poke towers with his W anymore and his R lasts only 3 seconds and doesn't give movement speed.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Taliyah's base stats are pretty damn good, but her scaling ratios kind of suck. She's a combo champion, but has to make sure she has almost perfect positioning to utilize her full potential. She seems kind of counter-intuitive to me. That being said, I think that she'll be a highly contested pick in the long run with that ult. Solid champion.

You know her ratios apply like... up to 5 times a spell pretty much? If they were high she'd do INSANE amounts of damage. Like as I pointed out above her E alone applies a 160% ratio if all of the damage hits. ((and it hinges on hitting them with the initial damage + something knocking them back through. That's... A LOOOOOT of damage. Her ratios are small, but it's because they apply on what are so many mini casts. Like her E alone is kinda like a bunch of mini casted spells. She also has plenty of tools for positioning ((her kit has movement speed inherently within as her passive and she gets a speed boost from standing on Worked ground and that's not even mentioning her ult.)) She has A LOT of tools for positioning and being in the right space at the right time. Her kit from me looking at it, like makes perfect sense. Everything on it is pretty dang amazing. It's more a kit that needs to be seen in motion the jsut the numbers imo because it's a CRAZY good kit even outside the ult. We'll jsut have to see how much Q messes with her Lane phase since if you cover your lane it may be hard to CS/Poke properly. Hell... I'm not even sure what you'd max first... Q or E. ((it's definitely not W, that's your one point wonder.))

Yeah, there are so many things you can do with that ult it's not even funny, and lining your E along it really punishes champions that can dash through it as well.

Speaking about walls, PBE is foreshadowing Zed and Azir nerfs. :s Zed nerfs are given, but I'm primarily upset about the latter as they're already making him more and more difficult than he already is. Reduced Zed's Q/R scaling but (but upped extra damage of additional Qs) whereas Azir can't poke towers with his W anymore and his R lasts only 3 seconds and doesn't give movement speed.

I wrote a whole text wall here about Azir and it vanished... so... I'mma quick summarize.

Azir is an AA dependant mage so normally he should be able to take towers faster, however unlike say... Kayle, he auto-attacked through a non-tradtional source, his Sand Soldiers. The Problem is these are much too safe and PBE Azir before he was released was doing shit like destroying towers from the other side of the Jungle walls etc... so they clearly couldn't keep this. They gave him the ability to jam his Sand Soldiers into the towers for damage as a result since then the calculations for damaging towers were very much AD based and Azir's AD never really got higher than his base, making buffs to his atk speed not really help take down towers well. Now, since Season 6 Mages AP goes towards dealing damage to towers. So, now having two sources that up his damage to towers... Azir takes them faster than ever. So, as a result Riot is probably removing this ability since Azir no longer needs it to have the pressure against towers that he should rightly have so it's just old design and needs to be plucked out of his kit as it's latent power that he has. More or less, I believe a lot of the nerfs here ((other than the wall duration.)) are more or less along the lines of getting rid of invisible or more hard to feel power from his kit rather than nerfing his base damages etc to keep these more invisible types of power. The Movespeed from passing through the wall was never that big a deal, and the he has now a way to deal with towers so he doesn't need to have that on his W anymore. ((and it cleans up design space removing a case where an ability breaks the rules that abilities can't be used on Turrets.)) all in all, Azir won't be hurting too badly from those changes.

Zed's changes are probably good, making it so that if he wants to land damage, you MUST land mor of your Q's to be as effective as you used to be. It's a good way to nerf his base damage without actually nerfing it. I like this change as it promote's more skillful play of the champion then before.

[Talkla]

Yeah, there are so many things you can do with that ult it's not even funny, and lining your E along it really punishes champions that can dash through it as well.

Speaking about walls, PBE is foreshadowing Zed and Azir nerfs. :s Zed nerfs are given, but I'm primarily upset about the latter as they're already making him more and more difficult than he already is. Reduced Zed's Q/R scaling but (but upped extra damage of additional Qs) whereas Azir can't poke towers with his W anymore and his R lasts only 3 seconds and doesn't give movement speed.

No one can deny that both of them deserve some sort of nerf, with their extremely high win, ban, and pick rates.

[Avatar of Grima]

No one can deny that both of them deserve some sort of nerf, with their extremely high win, ban, and pick rates.

Agreed. However Zed getting the extra damage on subsequent Q's makes harassing in lane better. I will be a little sad when the R nerfs hit but oh well, if you are decent enough at landing his Shadow E, you should be able to benefit from the extra damage on the Q

[Neo]

Agreed. However Zed getting the extra damage on subsequent Q's makes harassing in lane better. I will be a little sad when the R nerfs hit but oh well, if you are decent enough at landing his Shadow E, you should be able to benefit from the extra damage on the Q

Defs needed the R nerfs after QSS got fucked

[Tacos]

I'm hyped as fuck for these zed nerfs considering my favorite champs are immobile hypercarries.

[Avatar of Grima]

Defs needed the R nerfs after QSS got fucked

and it's still getting crushed, now it doesn't remove Fizz fish