Tacos Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The only thing is, once you nerf tank items, ADCs start running amok and suddenly everyone cries for nerfs on the late game hyper carries like Jinx, Vayne, Twitch, and Kog'maw, all who are in a great spot right now (excluding maybe Vayne). I'd rather see a way for tank items to do their job as tanky items and see their added damage increases be less rewarded on non-tank champions. The problem also stems from the fact that a lot of these assassins building tank have very nice base damages and scalings that are low enough that they're not missing out on much by going to tanky damage items. For Ekko specifically, his style of play really fits that of a tanky champion than an assassin currently. There's far too much utility loaded onto his W that his greatest use is getting that giant stun on multiple people and being able to survive it through his tank stats. While you can argue that he has the ability to ult out if he gets in any danger, that leaves him rather vulnerable for the rest of the fight, especially when he's built squishy for damage. Additionally, one of the sweet things about him is once he's dived in with his w, gotten the stun, and all hell breaks lose, in just a few seconds, he can ult onto a ton of people to get some sick damage and to restore the health he's already lost. Ekko and Yasuo are two of the biggest culprits and it's a conglomerate of their overloaded kits and base damages. With Yasuo, because of that double crit chance on his passive, he gets to rush a phantom dancer that grants him nice attack speed scaling on his q, 60% crit chance from one item, and the ability to reduce incoming damage. As he builds frozen mallet, he gets the added utility of being able to stick to people and consistently crit them down. The tankier he builds, the less damage he'll take, while that 60% crit chance still gets to do work simply from one item. Tank items are balanced on tanks. They need to change the culprits to reward their intended builds and give them less incentive to build safe and tanky. That nerf yasuo just got is an incredible step in the right direction. Sure it hurts normal yasuo's early game just a little bit, but it rewards you for building crit yasuo over tank, which is currently the main problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 If I'm being honest I always preferred going assassin Yasuo with full crit. I feel as though it was a good playstyle for him, and very rewarding when pulled off. Plus, when you're squishy like that it's even better when you outplay your opponents with him. The early game is where Yasuo is at his weakest, so I'm not sure how much nerfing that would effect him. I'd have to see what it is exactly they're targeting, but I'm assuming they're hitting his base damage. Regardless, if you know your stuff, you can scale into late game, where Yasuo shines best, and make all your opponents you know... have their last breath. Ahem. As for tank items. All though I am not sure how good of an idea it is for the game, or viable I guess? I think as I said before if they limited certain tank items to actual tanks only it would help deal with this problem that seems to reoccur. I don't think nerfing tank items is the right way to go, but I do think limiting the champs that can get them would. In most cases, dare I say all, really. I don't think it's viable at all for adc's to build things like Randuin's, Sunfire, etc. Same goes for most mages and assassins. I think if they did something similar to how hydra is limited to melee champs it could work out. Granted, something like this would take a lot of thought considering the amount of champions and such, but it's safe to say that the champs that you want to go straight up damage with a GA and things like MS and Maw shouldn't even have the option to buy the more tanky items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The problem with things like that is that Riot doesn't like dictating the meta unless it's a huge issue. By picking and choosing which champs can build what, they're severely limiting and restricting potential new builds for champs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 If I'm being honest I always preferred going assassin Yasuo with full crit. I feel as though it was a good playstyle for him, and very rewarding when pulled off. Plus, when you're squishy like that it's even better when you outplay your opponents with him. The early game is where Yasuo is at his weakest, so I'm not sure how much nerfing that would effect him. I'd have to see what it is exactly they're targeting, but I'm assuming they're hitting his base damage. Regardless, if you know your stuff, you can scale into late game, where Yasuo shines best, and make all your opponents you know... have their last breath. Ahem. As for tank items. All though I am not sure how good of an idea it is for the game, or viable I guess? I think as I said before if they limited certain tank items to actual tanks only it would help deal with this problem that seems to reoccur. I don't think nerfing tank items is the right way to go, but I do think limiting the champs that can get them would. In most cases, dare I say all, really. I don't think it's viable at all for adc's to build things like Randuin's, Sunfire, etc. Same goes for most mages and assassins. I think if they did something similar to how hydra is limited to melee champs it could work out. Granted, something like this would take a lot of thought considering the amount of champions and such, but it's safe to say that the champs that you want to go straight up damage with a GA and things like MS and Maw shouldn't even have the option to buy the more tanky items. The change I'm talking about is that they're making the armor penetration of his ultimate only apply to crits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The change I'm talking about is that they're making the armor penetration of his ultimate only apply to crits. Ah, that's not too bad then. I like crit Yasuo more anyway. Much more fun to play, and much more satisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 That's actually like a really well-done change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doombotmecha Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Except she originally wasn't immune to attack speed slows. She just needed to be stopped in a way that's unconventional. Build a frozen heart and a randuin's omen and you're already countering her mobility, which works as one of her greatest strengths. Her ability to kite and pump out sustained damage is what made her strong. She's still squishy, anything with point and click cc ruins her, she doesn't build enough crit to remain entirely relevant late game, slow her attack speed and you not only ruin her damage output, but also her mobility, and apply grievous wounds to ruin her sustainability. After the nerfs, vision denial, slows, her dependence on her support, and the inefficient changes to her core items just fucked her over and as hated as she was when she was relevant, her current condition isn't ok at all. yes but many, many more champions have ms slows than as slows, and only tanks build FH and randy. also, riot is phasing point-and-click cc out of the game. what is left? taric's is gone, sion's is LONG gone, she's immune to janna's, p much only nasus as I recall, since skarner has to get close before he can stun. I am completely fine with a non-viable kalista, I don't believe that a character should be outright immune to champions, particularly delay-based ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Well technically she's not currently immune to janna's w, ryze still has his w, annie still has her q, fiddle q, rammus e, warwick ult, malz ult, skarner ult, urgot ult, lulu w, maokai w, lissandra ult, leona q, tf w, renekton w, voli q, udyr w, vi ult, naut ult and passive, nocturne fear, blitz w, karma w, poppy e, etc. Yeah she wasn't fun to play against, but her passive doesn't mean she suddenly becomes immune to skill shots. Any wide skill shot is still easy to hit on her since her jump isn't anywhere near as fast as a flash. Any cc skillshot that you can aim properly is still going to hurt her, and now that slows make her auto attack slower, her mobility and her damage output is lowered by one form of cc, which doesn't happen for any other champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doombotmecha Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 well, I guess it's *balanced* with the slow changes but honestly I am never going to like her. her passive is raw mobility creep, and honestly I'm not going to enjoy the game that kalista represents--at the end of the day, riot wants mobile, flashy champs for lcs showdowns, so who cares if unique but less flashy concepts (hey nasus) get left in the dust. I've got a couple of nitpicks with your list, but honeslty I'm not a game design expert, so I'm not gonna pretend my opinion is the be-all end-all...just a simple dislike of a passive. full disclaimer: I cannot, for the life of me, spear-hop consistently on kalista. same for last-hitting with relic on thresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 With Thresh I find it best if I don't worry about the execute and just try to last hit normally from range. The gold share procs either way so it's no big deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Yeah, the tip I give to most Threshes who support me that struggle with proc'ing relic shield is to underestimage your damage output so that you don't hit it before it's in range for a last hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doombotmecha Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 well, I'd be in a bot game and *nails a lasthit on red passive* yes! *tries again on a slightly lower health minion with yellow passive* nope, shit. I cannot accurately predict what damage I'm going to do. if I had to play thresh (not that I own him) I'd prolly just go coin, maybe some extra bulk idk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I'm all for nerfing soraka since I absolutely hate playing against her but these nerfs are pretty... yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashew Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 So I'm just gonna come in here and say the new chroma packs look pretty neat. I want the Diana one http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/09/97-pbe-update.html#more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Same though. It's a shame she only got 7 instead of 8 like the other 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroWraith Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 The mecha malphite chromas, damn. I never had interest in any chromas before until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I'm all for nerfing soraka since I absolutely hate playing against her but these nerfs are pretty... yikes Waitwut. What'd they do to my BANANAS D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroWraith Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I'm happy for the slight Kindred buffing on the PBE ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Waitwut. What'd they do to my BANANAS D: they increased q mana cost and doubled the cooldown on her w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted September 8, 2016 Support Squad Share Posted September 8, 2016 Huh, they nerfed udyrs r back to where it was a while ago. Sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 W nerf is pretty big hit to her midgame, but shouldn't matter much in lane unless you max it (like everyone but me does apparently, so yay for me) Q nerf also isn't as big a deal if you've been maxing it anyways, not that it's really that big either way. Raka has plenty of mana sustain, it's only a big deal if you're casting a lot in a short period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashew Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 they increased q mana cost and doubled the cooldown on her w Rip in Rip. But that's okay doesn't really effect my MID LANE RAKA pleasedontkillme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Kog's getting old w back and I'm pretty excited about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foovy10 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Kog's getting old w back and I'm pretty excited about it. I heard that his r is not getting changed to the original version which means ap kog is not back which means I am really annoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anethia Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I heard that his r is not getting changed to the original version which means ap kog is not back which means I am really annoyed. Well, AP Kog is still a thing - but it's just a lot more burst focused than whittling them down with ults. That said, I understand what you're saying - the siege poke monster Kog'Maw used to be is now a low range burst machine when built AP, so it's just not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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