Godot Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have been thinking about the Mewtwo DLC at work and I came to a realization about something... Why the fuck is it taking Nintendo 5-8 months to make and distribute a veteran character that most likely already has at least a month of development behind him? Realisticly Mewtwo should be out and on our consoles by December, maybe January at the latest. The smash team consists of both employees of Nintendo and Namco, both of which are very skilled and good at putting this stuff out... I believe something fishy is going on here... Let's look at some other game companies and see how long it takes them to develop DLC characters... Keep in mind that some of these companies don't even have half the development team smash has. Iron Galaxy and Double Helix, developers of Killer Instinct put out characters every month or two. Lab Zero, Skull Girls devs, have been pumping out new original characters every 2-3 months. Netherealm Studios, devs behind Injustice and Mortal Kombat, dished out 4 unique characters for Injustice a month between each other. Not only that they after asked fans who they wanted to see next and pulled out 2 unique characters completely out of their asses in a 3-4 month span. Superbot, Playstation Allstars devs, nearly completed the character, Kat by the game's release in November with at least 2 months development time on her. Along with her announcement the dev team stated that she will be released along side with another character and a new stage. Both the new character and stage were only "on paper" at the time. Trailers for the characters were out by December and the characters were available to the public late January. Marvel vs Capcom 3 released in February of whatever year it came out. Ultimate MvC3 was released November of that year with 12 new unique characters and brand new game modes. After thinking about all of this I was just wondering "why is it taking Nintendo so damn long" to remake a veteran character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cepheus Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have been thinking about the Mewtwo DLC at work and I came to a realization about something... Why the fuck is it taking Nintendo 5-8 months to make and distribute a veteran character that most likely already has at least a month of development behind him? Realisticly Mewtwo should be out and on our consoles by December, maybe January at the latest. [...] After thinking about all of this I was just wondering "why is it taking Nintendo so damn long" to remake a veteran character. 1. he has to be modeled and animated for 2 different Consoles with completety different specs... and he will have at least 3 different models (when you hit pause on the 3DS and the camera zooms in, it changes the model to a higher resolution model!) Which they most likely did/do from scratch because all they have is Melee footage 2. balancing - sure balancing isn't Nintendos greatest strength (Meta Knight broken in Brawl etc.) 3. Maybe re.imagening his movesets... developing 2 additional/improved moves because of customization. and making sure that these moves are viable on every stage also he needs a really cool Final-Smash! (I hope he doesn't get a Mega-Evolution... and if... it's most likely his Mega-X version... which would be lame...) (all the Fighting games you mentioned were just plain flat-stages, except Playstation Allstars, so they don't need to worry about stages... because they are all the same just a different beckground) 4. Maybe they don't want us to scream every 2 weeks for a new DLC Character and want to make them something special?? --------------- On the other news - regarding the exclusive Game Mode Smash Tour: - HOW DUMB IS THAT??? If I want to play Mario Party... well I play effin' Mario Party... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yeah, the timing really just seems to me like they really weren't going to put him in there at all. Maybe they actually listened to the disappointed feedback when they trolled us with Greninja. It wasn't the "oh cool, Greninja is in!" reaction they wanted but was more, "Oh, Greninja. I'm just really sad it wasn't mewtwo." I can definitely see them getting a little caught up on fixing some of his specials and then coming up with alternates that people would want to play. And then there's the new moves and stuff from the newer generations. Maybe he'll get psycho cut and Psystrike. And I'd like to see a final smash that isn't turning into his mega. Or do sheik/zelda thing where he can turn into each in turn and transition from brawling X to ranged zoner Y. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Or do sheik/zelda thing where he can turn into each in turn and transition from brawling X to ranged zoner Y. Considering that Charizard only has his X form for his mega, I think it's likely mewtwo'll only have one aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I know but I was actually a fan of the. Versatility of the Pokemon trainer, if not the stamina mechanic. I feel like they could have made charizard evolve into either form and it would probably be the same effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Mewtwo shouldn't be THAT hard to make. All they hafta do is animate him, give him hit sparks, give him a voice actor, and balance him. Though to be honest, I didn't consider custom move sets. and reguarding "2D fighters being easier than 3D fighters" HOOPLAAAAA! Characters in Injustice, Killer Instinct, and Marvel had more "holy crap" animations and cinematic in their game play. They also had complete combo systems, more moves attacks and animations, unique artwork and voice acting. and special interactions with the rest of the roster. Playstation Allstars had 3 times the moves smash characters did and had the "super" animations, as well as 3 alternate costumes per character with 4 different colors each. They all also had cutscenes. Skull girls is a 2D sprite game... Fun fact 2D sprite games are way harder to make than 3D model games. and wanna know something worse? Skull Girls is completely hand drawn! Last thing I want to point out. You mentioned balancing and being able to zoom in and look at characters. That isn't major... All of these games did similar things too. so that argument is irrelevant. @mael a down side to the pokemon trainer is not only the stamina thing, but Squirtle, Charizard and Ivysaur all had weaknesses from their games. Squirtle took additional damage from Electric Attacks, Ivysaur Fire, Charizard Water, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 On an unrelated note, I have been experimenting and found something interesting. DK can KO people from the middle of Final Destination at 50% Bowser can KO people from the Middle of FD at 40% Ganondorf Can KO people from the middle of FD at 20% this makes Mac's OHKO punch seem a bit... underwhelming XD DK's method of this and Bowser's method of this... IS VIABLE sooooo ya... you learn something new everyday, you also get another reason to fear mael and I. Since Bowser is my #4 and DK is mael's #1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cepheus Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I don't think you got what I meant... Regarding the other Fighting games I was referring to the Stages! (regarding his move-set and custom moves) They need to evaluate if a move move valuable in certain Stage conditions. In those other Fighters it didn't matter because every stage was the same (a flat area like Final Destination) And since Smash doesn'T have many special moves like the other gmaes they need to evaluate which moves work and which don't, so there might be A LOT of testing involved The Resolution - well 3 Seperate models in 3 seperate resolutions = 3 times the work! I highly doubt there is s switch for 400x200 (or whatever 3DS resolution was) to 1900x1080 (I don't think the other games improved the resolution on the characters while zoomed in... I never saw any difference) And I never said that 2D-Sprite games are easy to make If they record all the voices and sounds from scratch it takes a while. And if we look at it that way: The Mewtwo model shown in the Trailer is the only one we have seen so far... IF this is the only model and they just finished it before the trailer... then they just started development on him And maybe Nintendo has some other tricks up their sleeve with the time-frame... Maybe Mewtwo is released on the day his amiibo-figure is released and you can unlock him by buying and connecting the amiiboo to the game. or maybe some other Pokemon-Related stuff... an Event-Mewtwo for ORAS with Smash-Moveset or something like that. Or maybe the majority of the game developers have switched to another project since Smash is nearing release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I am predicting that Development began on Mewtwo in late August/early September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 On an unrelated note, I have been experimenting and found something interesting. DK can KO people from the middle of Final Destination at 50% Bowser can KO people from the Middle of FD at 40% Ganondorf Can KO people from the middle of FD at 20% this makes Mac's OHKO punch seem a bit... underwhelming XD DK's method of this and Bowser's method of this... IS VIABLE sooooo ya... you learn something new everyday, you also get another reason to fear mael and I. Since Bowser is my #4 and DK is mael's #1 Do enlighten us to these methods; and please do detail how fast they are in comparison to the KO Uppercut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelly Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 ganon utilt im guessing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 ganon utilt im guessing Warlock Punch, pretty sure, although I could be wrong. As for Bowser, it could be a fully charged side smash, down air, or dash attack. I don't play Bowser much but I have been KO'd easily by all three of these moves. As for DK I'd like to believe it's his wind-up punch (whatever it's called). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Aeon Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Read this at your risk. Memory is still hazy from what I learned in my college credit courses. And obviously, I am not a certified designer, I am a student learner. My words do not speak for Nintendo, and therefore they should be taken lightly. For one, it takes quite a while to make a new character from scratch. I would say it would take about 2 months to make a working character build. This does not include making any sort of balance changes from the original, and experimenting with the newer builds. Really, game designing and engineering are the same in concept: drawing boards, piling-ons, LEA, prototypes, modifications, debugging, the design briefing and process and more than I can remember. All of that goes into designing a character, and it takes a lot of work. It's not like they'll take the prototype, add a few modifications, and release him; that's bad game design. They have the model, they will create a Mewtwo prototype (probably one similar to Melee), and a few months of designing and balancing, and Spring is here. So yeah, even though Mewtwo IS a veteran, it will take time to make a final product. Edited October 25, 2014 by The Radiant Aeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Ganon's spinning warlock punch has more launch power than the home run bat. Bowser can land a fully charged side smash viably. His down B shield breaks like a pro. DK's punch actually loses power when fully charged. It is a longer ranged KO punch if charged right before max charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelly Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 forgot about reverse warlock punch killing sooner. another thing i learned today is that you can pull backwards on your aerial flame choke for a slightly shorter distance. kinda helps with ganoncides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Dat choke is stupid good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Dat choke is stupid good. All too familiar with this...couldn't even fight Godot's friend properly because I was laughing so hard from the aerial chokes and spamming the taunts that read "get dunked". Fuck, I can't play Ganondorf for the life of me, but I'm doing my best to learn how. Tips on this bastard are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 All too familiar with this...couldn't even fight Godot's friend properly because I was laughing so hard from the aerial chokes and spamming the taunts that read "get dunked". Fuck, I can't play Ganondorf for the life of me, but I'm doing my best to learn how. Tips on this bastard are appreciated. I've been playing him for a while for the sheer hilarity of it, so I can only give tips on how to face range spammers like Robin and Megaman; stay on the ground and stick to shielding; in the air, your tactics range only from a down B to some low range air moves, and it makes it too easy to react to you especially since ganondorf can't really move horizontally far at all; force reaction from them by approaching while keeping your shield up, and read them appropriately. This can apply to some other heavyweights aswell. As for those other low % KO methods being mentioned, only DK's really seems to have any good setup for it, since you can charge up the punch and use it as you please; relying on the slowness of the most powerful attacks of the other bruisers is gonna leave you more exposed than a pigeon rushing to a dropped breadcrumb in a fancy restaurant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 DK's Punch is so reliable! also I suck at playing Ganon too, Mael and TSS on the other had... They are some of the best Ganon Players in Reborn, I am sure they have some great advice. Also, my friend Digi is a cool guy. He plays a lot of Megaman, LoL and Smash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Ganon ground flame choke directly into down tilt. This will do lots of damage. Use his forward and down tilt attacks a lot. They are both faster and have better range than his neutral A, which also doesn't combo into anything really. Forward tilt is great for smacking players offstage and down tilt launches people up. Luckily for ganon, his aerial warlock kick has surprising priority and speed, so use it to punish players that try to take advantage if you get knocked up high into the air. When it lands and hits the ground, it's actually pretty good at launching them if it hits. If they're trying to kill you in the air (fuck you Fox), this is a great move for making it back down to the ground. Warlock kick can leave him open and can be very predictable, since most people try to use it close distances. So use it moderately. A great time to use it is when you expect them to roll towards you or behind you. This will either hit them as they end their roll or they'll roll behind you and your kick will take you a safe distance from most retaliatory moves. You can do this with the flame choke similarly. If you're trying to approach someone from the air or someone is jumping at you, a good technique is use neutral aerial. This double kick can potentialy get them with the second kick if they try dodging and is one of his quicker moves as well. Use down to speed him down to the ground at the right time to either land his second kick on a standing foe or just reduce his landing vulnerability. I almost never ever use warlock punch, and any time I use his up tilt, it is really a failed up smash. Down smash be great with prediction. When ganon, stay calm and don't try to make him a speedy character. He requires a steady hand and judicious use of his tilts. If you really have to close the distance, use rolls and use his running attack to neutralize most projectiles and attacks. If they're attacking you with small stuff that doesn't make you flinch, don't sweat the small damage and close in. He can take a LOT of hits. Your opponents can't take many from Ganon. They will lose the tradeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I can attest to the power of Side-B Down-tilt followup, but as a tldr, the down tilt doesn't hit Pit when you Side-B him for some reason. Don't know if this is the case for any of the other characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelly Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 there's a chart somewhere of characters you can hit with an ftilt and those you cant. it's usually always better to go for the ftilt on characters you can hit. also the weird knockback of ftilt can knock people off stage at such a weird angle that it's impossible to get back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 "Fuck you Fox" Hey! Mael mentioned me in his post yay! Fun fact, I have seen Some people play mind games with the flame choke. They will land the choke and instead of going straight for he down tilt. They will pretend to let me get up and see if I try to roll away. They immidiately punish my rolls by flame choking me.... Again... God I hate fighting this character... This is why I have multiple "mains" It is to help me deal with characters that my main mains struggle against. Hey Ganon! Robin and Samus say fuck you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Aeon Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 One thing I find common. Duck Hunt Dogs love to drag it out to Time Out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 On a sidenote: Mael's DK challenge is up in the Smash Channel on the server. Details: Up to 3 matches with my DK. Winning nets you 50 rupees. FD form stages. 3 stock, no time limit. No items. NEVER ITEMS, YOU SCRUBS Offer expires whenever I pass out for the night. Hit me up server-side to test your might. Oh look! There is a name engraved on the DK shaped statue: Inuki/Robin- it was close, you magical varmint. 150 rupees Inumuta/Sonic/Greninja- dat ledge guarding though. =P 100 rupees Godot/Samus/Bowser- new evil combos to show me? Ok, I got you now. 100 rupees Sir Bagel/Marth- I keep rolling into that counter. 50 rupees Ikaru/Palutena- she moves too much. You don't need rupees, but you would have had 50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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