Shing Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 What Troy said. Ryu have some problems against with fast characters, so like shiek and pikachu will give ryu mains problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 She's forced to approach though, that's the issue; Ryu has no problem playing footsies with her until he gets an opening. Also a smart Ryu will go for the low recovery when offstagte against Sheik, and if she comes out to play at about medium height, he can straight up absorb most of her edgeguarding options and FADC back. At the tournament I was at yesterday, Sheik did the usual FAir chain combo, up until about 85% or so when Ryu can abuse the frame 1 super armor to sneak out of the combo, and used that to get back to the stage and punish Sheik for her overinvestment. After the game he also pointed out that if he wanted, he could have baited Bouncing Fish then countered it with True Shoryuken to outright kill Sheik at that point. He's got a few defensive offstage options that can disrupt Sheik's offensive edgeguarding attempts, and with the Hadoukens and combo game he dominates Sheik on the ground until he gets grabbed. Overall Sheik has a very hard time killing Ryu; her best bet is FAir chain combo at mid percents if she doesn't have Rage. He needs a read to kill her though, although he has an easier time taking stock overall in this MU. Pikachu, yeah no doubt in my mind that it's a miserable MU for Ryu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Most of what shanco said. Shiek has to play really really safe since Ryu can kill her so easily. People also seem to forget that Tatsu has armor and that Shoryu has Invincibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Felix Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Most of what shanco said. Shiek has to play really really safe since Ryu can kill her so easily. People also seem to forget that Tatsu has armor and that Shoryu has Invincibility. Sheik still dominates the neutral and can kill Ryu with a good gimp. Needles beat Hadoken and she can get in far easier than he. And while he does have Tatsumaki and Shoryken, those are both absurdly telegraphed and punishable on block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 That I believe. Never said he wins the MU. I would argue however, that there are more intelligent high level Ryu players then there are Shiek players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sheik still dominates the neutral and can kill Ryu with a good gimp. Needles beat Hadoken and she can get in far easier than he. And while he does have Tatsumaki and Shoryken, those are both absurdly telegraphed and punishable on block. Hadoukens do more damage than fully charged Needles, although I'm not sure how they interact as all of Sheik's specials have Transcendent Priority, meaning they beat the vast majority of moves and projectiles in the game no matter what. Sheik dominates the neutral in a lot of matchups, but Ryu is a much tougher cookie as she needs to approach against him unlike most. One hit and Sheik gets combo'd incredibly hard for a character of her weight because that's what Ryu does. Ryu makes trying to regain control of the neutral a painful experience, especially since she's a light character with questionable reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shing Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 http://oddshot.tv/shot/vgbootcamp-2015090704615600 Poor 6WX, that time was just unexpected. The kill was unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega_Ra1der Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Anyways here is my first ever meteor smash kill. And please criticize me for my mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Felix Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 You roll a lot and it doesn't look like you short-hopped at all. Short Hop Fast Fall Nair has always been one of Luigi's bread and butter approaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shing Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Alright, nice meteor smash but something. 0:15 You could use attack button when you was blocking and it would act as a grab. Or just you could attack or grab instead of rolling. 0:20 You got on the same attack again, be careful and block on right time. 0:25-27 You could have grab that or run and used fireball on falcon. A really missed time there a punishment would work. 0:34 A mistake there you could block. Just standing there. 0:40 Same what i repeat, could easliy block and grab it. That attack have a lot of end lag, punish that. 1:40 Could have block, and grab punish. The end was just your own fault, failed to edgeguard. Anyway, you seems to roll a lot and not so much short hop or fast fall. That's something Luigi is good for combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega_Ra1der Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The funny thing is I was trying to shield grab. And noting fg rolling habit. I notice there was some attacks I could easily punish with shield grab. And been practicing edge guarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 @general guy every Mario character's fast fall nair is their best bnb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Felix Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 @general guy every Mario character's fast fall nair is their best bnb. First, I know what you're saying. I play competitively (poorly and matches aren't recorded). And as it's such a good move, they really should have used it at least once. Second, that's actually false. Only Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi's Nair is their bnb (Maybe Peach too). But Bowser, Bowser Jr., and Rosalina have better options than Nair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I can agree with Rosalina and Bowser Jr. But I disagree about Bowser. You also forgot Wario. And peach players spam all of her aerials. Her nair is really quick. Rosie and Jr's nair are used more for follow ups than combo starters. bowser doesn't really combo period, so BnB is a foriegn term to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Desire Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You roll a lot and it doesn't look like you short-hopped at all. Short Hop Fast Fall Nair has always been one of Luigi's bread and butter approaches. basically this and you're better off going for a falling dair after the first fair in a downthrow combo for an easier regrab at the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega_Ra1der Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I have a link ditto with a friend who recently picked up link and beaten me. That tells me I should polish my link and improve it. Also I saved a replay of it. Will post it tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Tack Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 TiL that ZeRo doesn't know shit about doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 TiL that ZeRo doesn't know shit about doc. He doesn't really know much about characters outside of the top tiers, and it showed when he got rekt by a Lucario in tournament last month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shing Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Cannot disagree with you guys. He have been wrong at some point. I do think the same thing that mario is more better that dc mario, but dc mario isn't too bad. I wouldn't exactly set him in one of the worst in what tool he can have, just recovery. He have some auto cancel or such. (Edit) I need help how to fight a wario that use a lot of N-Special and the bike. Or really a defensivie wario one. I lack a lot with wario's matchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Random stuff is random Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shing Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Zero thinks Peach is underated, very. So what is your guys opinion of peach? I don't so much about her, but i had fight good peach players and they can be really good and hard to kill. Also she has a lot potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Felix Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I stopped listening to ZeRo awhile ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Peach isn't really underrated, but there definitely aren't enough Peach players. The only reborner I've ever heard of even touch Peach outside of random is Ame, for example. Peach's combos and edgeguards are obnoxious. However outside of her turnips she can't really reach that far, and she's a lighter-than-average character to boot. While it's true that she can control the neutral very well with her zoning, she kinda sucks when she's at a disadvantage almost regardless of who she faces (unless it's a turtling character like Palutena or Samus), which is why she has never been seen as a high tier pick. Also what Generalguy said - you gotta take what ZeRo says with a grain of salt. His knowledge of non-high-tier characters is indeed pretty limited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shing Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Peach isn't really underrated, but there definitely aren't enough Peach players. The only reborner I've ever heard of even touch Peach outside of random is Ame, for example. Peach's combos and edgeguards are obnoxious. However outside of her turnips she can't really reach that far, and she's a lighter-than-a stage character to boot. While it's true that she can control the neutral very well with her zoning, she kinda sucks when she's at a disadvantage almost regardless of who she faces (unless it's a turtling character like Palutena or Samus), which is why she has never been seen as a high tier pick. Also what Generalguy said - you gotta take what ZeRo says with a grain of salt. His knowledge of non-high-tier characters is indeed pretty limited I didn't know ame did try peach, something new here. I don't know so much of peach as i stated, so.. I was mostly interested to know info that characters i don't know alot. Anyway, i have to agree what generalguy said too. Zero can know of high tiers and over, but lower is what he lacks of info. So i begin too myself to get unsure with zero with mid tiers and such. I just watch most of zero's video because i really like smash videos and characters info etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Desire Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 sure it's natural he wouldn't know as much when it comes to lower tier characters but i wouldn't put off what he has to say especially when he has the most game knowledge of sm4sh in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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