Official Super Smash Bros. Thread for Wii U and 3DS

[Shing]

I also hear a lot of people say that if you are playing Ryu. Set your c-stick to attack. It makes doing weak attack combo strings easier to do.

Pretty much weak d-tilt and weak up tilt because that works very well.

[Darvan Korematsu]

Well....trying to bridge into other potential mains/secondaries besides my main man, the Bruiser from the Bronx (Lil Mac). I've shifted from an aggressive playstyle to a defensively punishing Mac. I've got Link in my pocket and I'm trying out Mario who is a barrel of laughs. Problem is I'd need a fighter who has power, and some decent to good speed. Power over speed being the priority. And also someone who doesn't have a huge learning curve and not many combos. And...also please not CapFal if he fits the bill. Already tried him and I suck with him.

[Godot]

It's harder to play Mac aggressively online since most of his best rushdown tech is input heavy and involve things like perfect pivots. So when you play online you are forced to play less like Steve Fox or Akihiko, and more like Balrog and TJ Combo. Whom I am not a huge fan of. Because most of FG is prediction based rather than reactionary based. In boxing terms FG Mac is more "Slugger" and "outboxer" based and Offline Mac is more "Bruiser" or "Infighter" based.

I notice that offline it is WAY easier to control the stage. I also play fox like ass on FG, but wreck with him offline. It's harder to do his more technical combos and punish mistakes when frames are literally being skipped or are just ignored.

[Maelstrom]

You want a high speed, high power character with a super easy learning curve? That is Cloud.

Dk is faster than people credit for but he is prone to getting combo'd.

Mewtwo is playable now and hits hard. His shadow ball is the game's supreme projectile.

[Shing]

Roy is argubly worse FE character in sm4sh after this recent patch when marth/lucina got more important buff than roy.

[Guzam]

Roy is argubly worse FE character in sm4sh after this recent patch when marth/lucina got more important buff than roy.

Gotta disagree with you there. Roy still has a good recovery, earlier killing moves, less lag and doesn't have to Hit the tip on his moves to do massive damage, not to mention he has easy combos out of his throws. He certainly doesn't have the best off stage game though. imo Lucina is still the worst, but even then she isn't that bad she just lacks a whole lot of easy combos.

[Shanco]

Roy is almost a completely different charactet from Marth/Lucina in that he is offensive and pressure-based. He has combos but in order to close a stock early takes a pretty good read off a dodge or missed tech. (Might be a good time to mention he is among the game's best tech chasers)

He is still the worst FE character for now, but he's definitely not bottom-tier unviable like a lot of people have been thinking he is; those buffs were a pretty big boost to his pressure game. It's a shame about that awful recovery though.

[Dark Desire]

i think lucina is still the worst with marth above roy after the buffs, roy literally got nothing he needed from his buffs to become a better character in any way

[Godot]

Robin is the best just because he is.

[Shing]

Gotta disagree with you there. Roy still has a good recovery, earlier killing moves, less lag and doesn't have to Hit the tip on his moves to do massive damage, not to mention he has easy combos out of his throws. He certainly doesn't have the best off stage game though. imo Lucina is still the worst, but even then she isn't that bad she just lacks a whole lot of easy combos.

Roy doesn't have good recovery. It's gimped easy. KO moves isn't so good because it's not easy to hit it.

He have decent combos, but it's not that much useful.

I think Lucina is underrated. She has aerials now that is powerful as marth's aerials pre patch tippers.

That makes her ko power and edgeguarding is more reliable. She have recovery so isn't so predictable unlike roy and robin. Also Lucina has better frame data than roy.

[Guzam]

Roy doesn't have good recovery. It's gimped easy. KO moves isn't so good because it's not easy to hit it.

He have decent combos, but it's not that much useful.

I think Lucina is underrated. She has aerials now that is powerful as marth's aerials pre patch tippers.

That makes her ko power and edgeguarding is more reliable. She have recovery so isn't so predictable unlike roy and robin. Also Lucina has better frame data than roy.

KO moves are super easy to land with roy. It doesn't even take a hard read, you could just use a tilt or a well timed D-Smash to catch a roll. Calling combos not useful is pretty weird too because smash 4 is all about getting good combos off when you can.

And you think Lucina is underrated because? ding ding ding, she is not as good as other characters. The fact that she's just now getting buffs that give her the same power as pre-patch marth goes to show that Marth is definitely the better option in most, if not all, cases. Also edgeguarding can be pretty hard to do in smash 4. Going off stage to where your opponent is takes a lot of time, meaning they can easily react to it if they need to. Also her recovery is plenty predictable when you've really only got dolphin slash and a jump. Also I still don't think her KO power is better than Roys. With Roy you can throw out almost any move when at high percents and kill someone, but with Lucina you can't kill with a tilt, your only real kill option is F-smash, U-Smash and sometimes her D-smash.

Only thing she has over Roy is shield breaker imo.

[Godot]

She is better offline while Roy is better online. Playing Lucina require more emphasis on technical skills. Roy emphasizes hard reads. It's harder to play Technical online, especially online. So playing a character who relies on hard reads online is a lot easier than playing a high skill character.

[Shing]

KO moves are super easy to land with roy. It doesn't even take a hard read, you could just use a tilt or a well timed D-Smash to catch a roll. Calling combos not useful is pretty weird too because smash 4 is all about getting good combos off when you can.

And you think Lucina is underrated because? ding ding ding, she is not as good as other characters. The fact that she's just now getting buffs that give her the same power as pre-patch marth goes to show that Marth is definitely the better option in most, if not all, cases. Also edgeguarding can be pretty hard to do in smash 4. Going off stage to where your opponent is takes a lot of time, meaning they can easily react to it if they need to. Also her recovery is plenty predictable when you've really only got dolphin slash and a jump. Also I still don't think her KO power is better than Roys. With Roy you can throw out almost any move when at high percents and kill someone, but with Lucina you can't kill with a tilt, your only real kill option is F-smash, U-Smash and sometimes her D-smash.

Only thing she has over Roy is shield breaker imo.

I can agree with tilts killing, but d-smash for catching a roll is still a read you need. Hard or not.

I'm calling roy's combo potential not that useful. Not whole smash 4.

I can disagree there. While marth does more damage, it's more on the tippers. Lucina doesn't need to rely on tippers and can go straight rushdown.

Edgeguarding isn't easy, but it's not too hard actually. Character with bad recovery like dr.mario and little mac is pretty easy to edgeguard. Roy is also falling down in that category.

While Lucina's recovery is bit predictable, it's not easy to edgeguard her up b considering it's super fast back on stage. Roy's one is kinda slow and it is still easy to gimp it. And doesn't side b help bit? It works on marth atleast i know.

I don't think lucina's KO power is better than roy as you said. Roy is designed bit more powerhouse than speedy type.

I think up b, fair offstage and up throw can also kill too for Lucina.

She have better frame data than roy which is important. Faster aerials and longer range.

That makes her move much more reliable than roy as for killing and edgeguarding.

She is better offline while Roy is better online. Playing Lucina require more emphasis on technical skills. Roy emphasizes hard reads. It's harder to play Technical online, especially online. So playing a character who relies on hard reads online is a lot easier than playing a high skill character.

So you are saying Roy relying on more on hard reads? That's not a good thing. I don't think roy is fully rely on hard reads like ganondorf, but he need atleast some reads to get the kill. And online doesn't matter where it can be lag so ruin mess up your moves. Offline matters most.

I think lucina is 2nd/3rd worst and roy is worst FE in sm4sh.

It can be argured, but i'll hold this opinion still.

[Shanco]

If we wanna argue which FE characters are better, this is my personal, slightly biased ranking:

1. Ike
2. Marth
3. Lucina
4. Corrin
5. Robin
6. Roy

Ike: Ike is still Ike; great grabs and combos out of them, great kill power, scary range, and a now buffed F-Air and F-Smash as if he couldn't kill early enough. Still kicking ass. Still not doling out sympathy.

Marth: 70% kills as Marth are popping up all over the place after the buffs to his aerials/tipper hitboxes. With those buffs comes a couple more ways to combo into those tippers, as well as some improved reliability on the confirms that already existed. Range buffs benefit his key edgeguarding moves, but he still won't get many easy offstage kills without tippers. That said, those tippers are EXTREMELY lethal. Don't fuck with 'em.

Lucina: The damage/range buffs were very generous and have turned Lucina from a silly warrior waifu into a terrifying offstage threat. Few characters can weave around the now-disgusting coverage of her specials/aerials. She still kinda lacks onstage kill power before 100% (barring a shield break), but has kill confirms, high coverage, and a surprising amount of moves that are safe on shield.

Corrin: Now that we've figured out exactly what Corrin does (and doesn't do), many of us have started to find that he is a character that relies on zoning and, when that fails, some gimmicks. Play his game and you will lose. However he has a very tough time handling pressure and, outside of a couple moves, has a less than impressive close-range game which includes a poor negative state. Will lose to aggressive characters/players who find a way around his defenses.

Robin: Robin is a fairly similar character to Corrin but trades some tools for a little extra recovery and kill power. However those tools (such as a Counter and some quick-to-act-out-of aerials) were key to fending off the threat of many characters and Thunder/Arcfire tomes often do little to nothing to compensate. Still a great character, but definitely requires some patience.

Roy: Roy is still considered the worst, as he is still cursed by the same weaknesses he had before. That said the buffs made for additional improvements to his already-great pressure/tech-chasing game. He's still got use, and is still fun for the impulsive and impatient.

[Dark Desire]

hello i am here to post my personal tier list of this patch

thoughts?

[Shadow Tack]

[Maelstrom]

That's pure BS.

[Guzam]

hello i am here to post my personal tier list of this patch

thoughts?

I feel Kirby should be Lower Mid right between Lucas and Robin. He's definitely better than Lucina, Roy and Wii Fit Trainer imo. I also say Ganon should be Low tier mostly due to easy kill potential and shield breaking, but awful grab and recovery. Only character I feel should be moved down is Villager. Maybe it's just because I've never really seen a good villager ever, but he doesn't seem like High tier potential. I'd drop him to either High mid or Low High.

Aside from that this looks pretty good. Nice work.

Edit: Haha yeah Rosalina is such a cool character right guys? Hahahahaha... Ha...

[Flux]

Been playing around with Marth this last patch and he finally feels decently fun to use again. I remember being super disappointed with Marth when I bought the game at release, being a Marth main in Melee, but he's looking like a potential main for me after these past few buffs. He's finally got some kill potential. Tippered up air and forward air can both kill fairly reasonably, and just earlier today I killed Bayonetta with tippered F-Smash at 63% (after fsmash damage). He's also got some nice combos out of jab and full hop bair and fair now.

[Shanco]

DD's tier list...here's what I'd do to it.

Of course, this is my opinion so take it how you will.

Also, there is another use for the Tier List Maker that a fair few people have been doing - matchup charts! You can of course alter the names of the charts to show off good or bad matchups for each character. I see more of these than legit tier lists now, funny enough.

In the spoiler is an example matchup chart for Captain Falcon.

Captain Falcon matchup chart

[Shing]

That's pure BS.

That is rosalina for you. Luma with high knockback that can kill you lower than 40%

[TaciturnPhoenix]

Only character I feel should be moved down is Villager. Maybe it's just because I've never really seen a good villager ever, but he doesn't seem like High tier potential. I'd drop him to either High mid or Low High.

Have you seen Ranai at Genesis? Best player on his crew, first in doubles, and third in singles. Extremely aggressive Villager~

[Godot]

There are a lot of Villager and Greninja players in Japan taking first at a lot of major tournies.

[Darvan Korematsu]

As always, gonna vouch for my main man in the green gloves and shorts. Heck, if anything, Mac got some decent buffs in the last patch. Not Marth level, but notable enough on the Smashboards.

Still despise tier lists, b/c I am positively sure Mac has a better matchup versus some higher tier picks like Fox and Falcon than he's given credit for, and I speak from personal experience and some small level tourney comps too. If you're gonna tell me he's worse than DK and Wario, I'm gonna tell ya to lay off the drugs because bruh you high to think that.

[Shanco]

Mac has a very close matchup against Sheik. About 55:45 loss. But that's about it as far as high tiers go. Mario especially dummies him.

His placing in the tier list is debatable, so I'm not sure if he is better or worse than Wario. But I'm pretty adamant that DK is much better than Mac overall with range and early kill options that make top tier matchups feasible. For example the big gorilla has the tools to win the Ryu matchup somewhat easily, and has cheap tricks against the fast fallers (such as Ding Dong) that can swing a match quickly.