Official Super Smash Bros. Thread for Wii U and 3DS

[Zargerth]

if you look back on how bayo was pre-patch, she probably was better then pre-patch sheik, but after the witch time nerfs, it's as balanced as it can be with the exception of that you can't DI out of it, which is kinda insane but it's not as bad as it was since you have a much shorter time to follow up out of witch time in general now

if they did nerf her b moves like that, it'd basically break the character in terms of combos, which is kinda what sakurai said she was going to be in the trailer, so they definitely wouldn't nerf her that way, you could nerf the KB growth on her b moves instead to keep her somewhat viable but still not a likely solution

overall i feel it's a bit of a overreaction from zero, bayo does have huge weaknesses in that her neutral is pretty bad, anyone with a better neutral can take advantage of her pretty easily and as long as you don't get swept up into a witch twist and get death combo'd she has a pretty hard time killing

Bayonetta as a "combo" character is very, may I say, superficial. There seems to be very little depth in her gameplay as most people just go for the same ol' 0-to-death (or something%). At least she can combo, so that makes her a combo character, but mostly you'll see just that one combo.

She is overhyped atm imo. She is pretty predictable and can struggle getting in on people sometimes since she can be pretty easy to camp and punish.

This (as in playing against Bayonetta) will just make the fight drag on - unnecessarily so - since you pretty much have to camp, if you can. I mean, have fun camping with someone like DK. She may (and is) beatable, but that doesn't mean there was nothing wrong with the way Bayo was designed. Because there are plenty of things wrong.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Zargerth

[Guzam]

Had a pretty good Shulk match against a really cool Lucas/Ness player. Unfortunately the Ness match was too long to upload, so maybe I'll get another match some other time. However I feel I should mention I'll likely be uploading these FG matches on my channel often from now on. So if that interests you, you could sub to me or you could just wait until I post here, either or.

Also my Luigi is still fresh af. If I could find a tourney anywhere in Kansas, I have no doubt I could do well with him.

[Shanco]

Having trouble with Bayonetta? You can git gud -- alternatively, check out this vid for what to do.

[Shing]

Git gud doesn't exactly excuse how overewarded(As some top players says) bayo is through.

But yeah, never had any problem against Bayo. Especially i'm a sonic main lol.

[FraRPetO]

I think it's because top level players know how to combo with her properly and it's much more rewarding playing as Bayonetta in tournaments than in casual online play where smallest lag can mess up anyone.

I still haven't played a good Bayonetta player online. Good video though.

[DiLimiter]

Kind of old news, but Russia has also banned Bayonetta from their tournaments.

[Shing]

Kind of old news, but Russia has also banned Bayonetta from their tournaments.

It's not that of old new. I'm just waiting to see more bayo bans lol.

[Dark Desire]

apparently you're able to SDI the nair so it probably won't become as huge an issue as I thought

[Shanco]

apparently you're able to SDI the nair so it probably won't become as huge an issue as I thought

It's true on at the very least Sheik, as my brother and I figured out.

It ultimately depends on who he can footstool disable.

[Dark Desire]

Kind of old news, but Russia has also banned Bayonetta from their tournaments.

it was a shitpost rip

[Godot]

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/apr/20/bayonetta-truly-breaking-smash-4-action-johns-smash-symposium-explains-why-you-shouldnt-be-so-afraid-big-bad-witch/

[DiLimiter]

it was a shitpost rip

Well, yes and no. People blew the size of the "ban" out of proportion. It was one small community within the Russian Smash community (which is already small as it is). And even then the TO didn't really ever officially ban it.

...so yeah, it was mostly a shitpost. Oh well. Even if Bayo does become the huge threat to the competitive scene that she's made out to be, people will stick with what works for them most of the time anyways. It's not optimal for tournaments, but the whole point of this game is to have fun anyways. If you're not having fun then what's the point of playing it?

[Dark Desire]

tfw you can actually die if you try to SDI bayo's second up b when she has rage

[Shanco]

Indeed. Since you can not DI the second Witch Twist at all, the best thing to do is accept the fact that you are getting hit by it and just do nothing.

If your character has an air dodge that starts on frame 2, you can buffer that out of the second Witch Twist to escape the finisher. Jigglypuff can also punish a second Witch Twist with Rest, netting a super early stock if the Bayonetta player doesn't know that's a possible punish; while a little less practical, there are also other moves that allow characters to escape a death combo due to frame 1 or 2 action, such as input Shoryuken, Focus Attack, and Little Mac's N-Air.

[Shing]

I wonder when zelda in any sm4sh games will not be low tier tbh.

[Another Felix]

I wonder when zelda in any sm4sh games will not be low tier tbh.

She's broken in PM.

[Shanco]

I found this browsing Smashboards today.

This is a list of characters and their overall tournament results numbers since patch 1.1.5; characters with the best overall results top the list, obviously. It was compiled and posted by Thinkaman, one of SB's Smash 4 Back Roomers, and while it does reflect a lot of what we've been seeing in various tier lists, there are indeed some surprises. Here it is:

[Shing]

She's broken in PM.

Iirc. Isn't everyone good in PM as i have heard.

And official tier(yeah, they made an official tier list) so said they make was zedla wasn't that high. Pretty low.

And it's not an offical smash game so not accepted. The only time i know zelda is high tier is currently SSF2.

@Shanco

Tfw Captain falcon over Sonic, Pikachu, ZSS..

[Godot]

Zelda in the current build of PM is different than what she used to be. Her Din's Fire used to be insane.

[Shanco]

@Shanco

Tfw Captain falcon over Sonic, Pikachu, ZSS..

ZSS and Pikachu have taken a big fall as of late in the rankings (apparently this is not the first edition of the chart, but I didn't know that before today). Thinkaman's explanation for this is due to Zero Suit Samus's nerfs, as well as Pikachu's deceptive difficulty causing mid level players to fail miserably when they tried switching to the character.

Sonic took a hit in his rankings because Cloud came into existence.

[Maelstrom]

Ya'll are overthinking this stuff.

[Godot]

https://youtu.be/eYgX1-3MYF0

Huh...

[Shanco]

The Z-axis was a thing back in Brawl as well. Link's arrows got notoriously screwed by this mechanic and tbh the arrows may have been the very reason the mechanic was brought in in the first place. In this game things seem to have been brought back into line for the most part.

Also, list of stages where the Z-axis is removed. Omega versions also have their Z-axis removed in these stages.

Both versions

Duck Hunt

Flat Zone 2 / Flat Zone X

Super Mario Maker

3DS version

Dream Land

Mute City

Balloon Fight

Pac-Maze

Wii U Version

Pac-Land

[Shadow Tack]

Z axis was a thing in melee, and was why yoshi's dash grab wouldn't always work on characters like zelda, it'd go past her side.

[Shanco]

This is a tier list that recently surfaced from Umeki, a top Smash player in Japan. Its credibility is helped along by the fact that this was a very largely agreed upon tier list by the JP community.