[Town Wins!] Danganronpa: Life Keeps Killing Mafia

[andracass]

@NickCrash I'm going to make my point a little less subtly.

[Vote] NickCrash

 

[NickCrash]

The argument against me is paranoia from Evi's side. I'd rather have you back it up with something better.

Before you do so, re-read all that has been said today. It might help you clear some things up.

[andracass]

That's a slick deflection.

[NickCrash]

You provided no reason for your vote. I'm asking for one, and you try to avoid it.

If nothing else, that's what deflection looks like.

 

At the same time I'm telling you to re-consider your decision.

Given there is enough time, you might want to read a bit better before voting me.

Name it as you wish, but I encourage you not to vote on random or paranoic ideas.

 

 

Here, let me help you. p18: 

 

[andracass]

It's a good strategy- getting everyone to give you all the information they have.

[andracass]

I'd prefer a defense, as opposed to the patronizing. You can construct a "defense" out of my personal style of accusation- in fact, you've preemptively done it several times now. But I'd like to hear it from you first. 

[Chickens]

oi protagonist use your plot armor to save us

[andracass]

Indeed. C'mon, let's see it.

[NickCrash]

Allow me to evaluate this from an outsider's point of view, because right now the situation is bizzare. 

I don't mind that per se, but I prefer logic to stubborness and paranoia.

I'll provide a tl;dr in case somebody gets lost in my thoughts or simply "ain't got enough time fo dat"

 

About Cass

She definitely enjoys taking the safe route. D2 votes for Candy, D3 I can't remember if she voted at all.

Now D4, and she votes for me, because I dared vote another than the most voted person. 

Needless to say, the vote itself does not change things, but at least mine has some justification behind it, being that Corso's acting sheepish and following the classic mafia strategy of CWAC and blending in. 

Cass is trying to pressure me into voting for Paul, by voting for me. Yes, I too am confused.

It's obviously a declaration of scumread, which is a plus, given she never provided the list we've asked before, whereas others did. 

However, it's not a logical step to take. Suspicion on me has began on D4 with Eviora's post claiming that I'm just too towny for her liking. 

Honestly I don't know how to respond to that.

Yet Cass decides to grab from that and without providing solid info, to do some questioning.

And when politely asked to re-consider by reading what's been said and done so far, the patronizing begins.

Have I not told them that one of the deaths today is most probably a Junko? Is it too hard to evaluate such a statement? I wonder...

She believes that continuous posting will increase the pressure. It's a really interesting subject to study.

Well, she's wrong and has locked her sights on me (meaning she can't bother reading the rest of the players), and I suppose that's on me to change it. ehh

 

About Eviora

She's definitely trying to scumhunt, yet the absence of posts from most players makes that hard to do.

Cass and Lia have proven each other, meaning she only has to suspect the person that talks the most, and that's moi.

She just doesn't have the evidence to back that suspicion up. We both know why you suspect me dear.

It's just that the most basic principle of mafia is to let the bafoon do the talking, so they can hide in the shadows.

 

About Paul

He definitely exhibits the scummiest of behaviors this time around.

Votes in hopes of saving fellow mafia from a lynch, provides ambiguous reasoning behind his posts and reads

We all know why Paul is up there on the stand.

The question is, what happens with his associates. By the numbers, there's another mafia lurking.

It's on us to find out who that is. By focusing completely on Paul, we're allowing them the opportunity to hide, or even blend in properly.

Bussing is also something we should look for. 

 

About Corso

I've made my case earlier on him.

I believe him to be Paul's associate in crime.

 

About Bok

He did blunder by claiming Lia was suspicious. 

Yet his general behavior seems to be townie, even if he doesn't really write much.

I think he prefers to act.

 

About Sheep

...

We lynch him whenever we have no idea what to do. That's not a solid strategy.

Then again, now mafia tends to leave him alive whenever they can.

They either think he doesn't have a strong enough role, or he's mafia.

 

About Lykos

General townread in my opinion. He doesn't write as much as he usually does, but that's not something bad per se.

His general demeanor even since D1 indicates a town-alignment, given his votes and reads seem not to contradict those of established townies (like myself)

One could make a case for sheeping, but he usually casted his votes earlier than the rest, which rebuts that statement.

Good boi (obligatory dog joke)

 

Roles Alive

 

* Governor
* Loudmouth (Lia)
* Bulletproof 
* Cop
* Betrayer  
* Vigilante
* Neighbour (Cass)
* Vanilla Mayor 
* Corrupt Lawyer
* Framer

tl;dr

Paul and Corso are suspicious

Cass is actively pushing me, leading to a Town-V-Town situation that simply clutters the thread with useless back-and-forth

I like Eviora and Bok enough (for nao)

 

[andracass]

You're correct, the situation is bizarre- but that's mainly because I haven't explained it to you. 

You're playing the crowd well. Very well.

The main issue here is this: every time you make an argument, you tacitly imply that you are town, and have recently begun making more explicit references to being town without actually providing much in the way of actual evidence. If anyone makes much of a move toward you, you start attacking them.

Also, though, this isn't simply me jumping on Eviora's bandwagon. You saw where I caught you, right?

 

Now, as I said, you are quite good at playing the crowd and convincing people to give you information. I'd almost be impressed if you weren't so incredibly patronizing. So here's my strategy. If you are town, then you will be able to defend yourself without me making a case. If I notice any inconsistencies in your argument, I will point them out and you can counter. If you are mafia posing as town (and quite well, if so), then it's absolutely necessary for you to counter my arguments since even a slight slip up would get you caught.

 

Also, deleting posts is against the rules.

Edited June 12, 2018 by andracass

[Corso]

8 minutes ago, NickCrash said:

Corso's acting sheepish and following the classic mafia strategy of CWAC and blending in

I acted sheepish on the first days because I didn't have strong suspicions to follow. As soon as I noticed something wrong (Bean's roleclaim) I pointed it out, and to be honest I don't see why providing another target for the lynch is necessarily a bad thing (as I said, I find both of them suspicious). 

At this point I've put your attention on Bean so I can gladly help you lynch my suspect #2

Btw if Bean's randomness allowed it to fakeclaim it could also allow him to retire his claim: I still find Bean suspicious (I haven't read that post yet)

Btw what is "CWAC"? baby don't hurt me

 

[NickCrash]

7 minutes ago, andracass said:

The main issue here is this: every time you make an argument, you tacitly imply that you are town, and have recently begun making more explicit references to being town without actually providing much in the way of actual evidence. If anyone makes much of a move toward you, you start attacking them.

I could start claiming I'm mafia, if that satisfies you.

You didn't read what I wrote, and it's quite obvious.

Also, for the sake of clarity, and because I don't enjoy having words shoved into my mouth (or keyboard), I don't really have a habit as that one you enjoy imagining.

The only case I made it clear I am town, is when my eye caught Junko. Read post above for reference.

 

The instance on D2 that I "attacked" you was driven by two reasons

1. You tried to paint me as a target out of the blue, and kept that idea after I said I might have a non-visiting role

2. Your numbers were wrong.

   2a. That could be because of a wrong estimation of the data or an attempt from mafia to manipulate the crowd.

   2b. To be honest with you, I thought you might have been mafia (at least initially), until you got verified by Lia. 

 

Now you return with an attack, yet don't have the arguments to back it up.

And while we do have scums that are much probable to vote, the only excuse you got to initiate such an attack was my vote on Corso.

As I explained before, and you should read that, we don't need to find 1 mafia. We need to find all of them.

 

I'd wait till you edit that comment of yours to say more. It might seem premature, but those seem to be your first thoughts on the subject and I'd rather have a more honest conversation with you, rather than wait for you to polish those statements, by adding things that can't be further from the truth.

[NickCrash]

15 minutes ago, Corso said:

I acted sheepish on the first days because I didn't have strong suspicions to follow. As soon as I noticed something wrong (Bean's roleclaim) I pointed it out, and to be honest I don't see why providing another target for the lynch is necessarily a bad thing (as I said, I find both of them suspicious). 

At this point I've put your attention on Bean so I can gladly help you lynch my suspect #2

Btw if Bean's randomness allowed it to fakeclaim it could also allow him to retire his claim: I still find Bean suspicious (I haven't read that post yet)

Btw what is "CWAC"? baby don't hurt me

Mate, that's exactly why I'm putting your name on the table.

Your sheepish behavior is not something I'm expecting of you, and given your previous work in other games, in which you proved quite the analytical machine, I am inclined to doubt that you just got lazy. Hence, I'm also suggesting you as a suspect #2.

In turn, you bring a suspect #2 of your own, which could work as a deflection, and thus I can't help but keep my suspicion on you.

 

CWAC means to contribute without actually contributing.

I also view it as re-iterating info already given, but presenting it in such a way that it seems like it's new.

 

 

[andracass]

Just now, NickCrash said:

CWAC means to contribute without actually contributing. I also view it as re-iterating info already given, but presenting it in such a way that it seems like it's new.

 

 

Ooh, I like this.

Can you tell me what you've contributed? That would help.

[NickCrash]

You might find a post above, solely dedicated to you. You will need only scroll 60degrees on your mouse, or click 15 times on the bar to the right. 

 

Having fun aside, I don't see how that would help you. You won't accept anything I say.

It's true that I'm not confirmed, but that's a bit unfair to be honest.

[andracass]

1 minute ago, NickCrash said:

Having fun aside, I don't see how that would help you. You won't accept anything I say.

I recall that being similar to Nicki's defense from before. Care to try again?

[NickCrash]

I'm sorry. I cannot work with someone who ignores 80% of what I say because they don't suit their a-priori opinions.

 

In terms of solid contributions for the town win, I've pinpointed 2 mafia already, and am trying to find the rest. 

I have provided more than enough to answer your questions. 

[Bok Choi]

Cass, I don't entirely understand why you're suddenly all over Nick today,(unless I missed that you were arguing earlier days?) and Evi's worries are more paranoia than anything because Nick is pretty good at this Mafia thing. Do you know something we don't? This argument would make me suspect you as maf, but we know your role already, so I'm not sure what you're working towards with this argument.

 

In other words, I came to cast my vote, but seeing Paul vote for himself has me going ehhhhhh idk. This is subject to change if a better candidate comes up.

 

[Eliminate] Paul

[andracass]

1 minute ago, NickCrash said:

In terms of solid contributions for the town win, I've pinpointed 2 mafia already, and am trying to find the rest. 

Ah, but have you pinpointed two mafia? To me, it seems like you jumped on the bandwagon for the first one and are selectively targeting Corso.

 

2 minutes ago, Bok Choi said:

Cass, I don't entirely understand why you're suddenly all over Nick today,(unless I missed that you were arguing earlier days?) and Evi's worries are more paranoia than anything because Nick is pretty good at this Mafia thing. Do you know something we don't? This argument would make me suspect you as maf, but we know your role already, so I'm not sure what you're working towards with this argument.

 

In other words, I came to cast my vote, but seeing Paul vote for himself has me going ehhhhhh idk. This is subject to change if a better candidate comes up.

 

[Eliminate] Paul

I've been suspecting Nick since the middle of day 2. We've had some arguments.

I'm currently going through that massive post from earlier, which should explain a lot without giving away too much. I'll also say that I definitely wouldn't be making this play if I wasn't confirmed town.

[Eviora]

Well, this is really getting quite heated!

 

All this strife seems to have started from a simple statement on Nick's part that he hadn't been roleblocked on N2... or whatever night that was. Nick, might I ask how you know you weren't roleblocked?

[andracass]

Meanwhile, I'd like to do a brief show-and-tell for the town. All quotes are from Nick's large post, and italicized for readability.

 

"Allow me to evaluate this from an outsider's point of view, because right now the situation is bizzare."

You're suddenly switching tactics. Earlier you were simply pushing back at me, and you deleted a post where you continued to do that.

 

"I don't mind that per se, but I prefer logic to stubborness and paranoia."

Wow, you almost sound like me from D2. In fact, this is almost a direct quote.

And, you know what? I agree. Let's watch this play out.

 

"She definitely enjoys taking the safe route. D2 votes for Candy, D3 I can't remember if she voted at all. Now D4, and she votes for me"

I voted for Candy twice. Notably, stating that you "can't remember if I voted at all" also serves to discredit and delegitimize my current vote for you. Saying "she definitely enjoys taking the safe route" also ignores the plays that I've been making.

As I said, you can play the crowd.

 

"Needless to say, the vote itself does not change things, but at least mine has some justification behind it, being that Corso's acting sheepish and following the classic mafia strategy of CWAC and blending in."

Actually, the vote change does make a difference. Paul is making a sympathy play that offers no real substance in (what I presume to be) an attempt to get fewer votes or even a Makoto to push the lynch. By changing my vote from him to you, his fate is no longer quite so assured. This does, however, alter the pressure on you. Paul is on your scumread list, and your two votes would go a ways towards eliminating him....which you'd likely avoid doing at all costs, if you are both mafia. Your resistance to changing your vote was either sheer stubbornness or group defense. Pick one: you're either a hypocrite or mafia.

 

"Cass is trying to pressure me into voting for Paul, by voting for me. Yes, I too am confused."

I am no longer pressuring you to vote for Paul. I am directly accusing you.

 

"It's obviously a declaration of scumread, which is a plus, given she never provided the list we've asked before, whereas others did."

I really like this sentence. It's clever.

Firstly, this is a direct accusation. "Reads" don't exactly mean a lot to me. Things happen, and I sort them out as events unfold.

Secondly, "which is a plus" gives you a brief opportunity to patronize me before moving on to my favorite part: the "we've". You're managing to broaden the reach of your claim and place yourself in the town with the same linguistic trick.

 

"However, it's not a logical step to take. Suspicion on me has began on D4 with Eviora's post claiming that I'm just too towny for her liking. Honestly I don't know how to respond to that."

Your posts are excessively towny. I've mentioned some of the tricks already; I'll mention some more before I'm done here. I could even go through old posts, too. 

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think I've found the last mafia member.

 

"Yet Cass decides to grab from that and without providing solid info, to do some questioning."

This is the most accurate statement here. I am not providing solid info. I've stated why in another post. 

 

"And when politely asked to re-consider by reading what's been said and done so far, the patronizing begins."

...do you not know what "patronizing" is, beyond the fact that it's a thing I said you did? The reason that this statement (and others) are patronizing is because it inherently assumes that I haven't been paying attention. It's a further attempt to dismiss my accusation without addressing it.

 

"Have I not told them that one of the deaths today is most probably a Junko? Is it too hard to evaluate such a statement? I wonder..."

Again, this is the definition of patronizing. I will agree that my accusation is out of the blue, but if you seriously believe that i can't evaluate a statement then I'd suggest that you "re-consider by reading what's been said and done so far".

 

"She believes that continuous posting will increase the pressure. It's a really interesting subject to study."

You're going to have a difficult time playing this one off when the game is over.

 

"Well, she's wrong and has locked her sights on me (meaning she can't bother reading the rest of the players), and I suppose that's on me to change it. ehh"

So this is a cute way to end your read of me. You're correct that you are "in my sights". The idea that I'm unable to read the other players is invalidated by the fact that my accusation of you is also tied with an accusation of Paul. It's also a nice way to boost your own profile later.

 

From Eviora:

"She's definitely trying to scumhunt, yet the absence of posts from most players makes that hard to do."

That clearly has not stopped you.

 

"Cass and Lia have proven each other, meaning she only has to suspect the person that talks the most, and that's moi. She just doesn't have the evidence to back that suspicion up."

This is a rather tenuous argument. Firstly, saying that Evi is suspecting you simply because you're chatty ignores the fact that she's been making some pretty good arguments since the beginning. This instead appears to be a dismissal of someone who suspects you, much like you did with me.

 

Your reads don't appear to be actual reads. They appear to just be designed to curry favor towards some and dismiss others. That in and of itself would be enough for me to suspect you.

[NickCrash]

9 minutes ago, Eviora said:

Well, this is really getting quite heated!

 

All this strife seems to have started from a simple statement on Nick's part that he hadn't been roleblocked on N2... or whatever night that was. Nick, might I ask how you know you weren't roleblocked?

I think I said so before. Usually I expect that when someone is targeted for a roleblock, regardless of role, they receive a message.

The usual messages are sth like those "Someone tried to roleblock you",  "You were roleblocked"

I didn't get a message of sorts, so I thought I wasn't targeted.

From previous experience, one may receive such a message even when they don't have a night action to prevent from doing.

Therefore, when Cass claimed that her trap would only catch those able to do something, I had to correct her, based on my experience, and current role.

 

It was on N1 btw, and the conversation happened on D2.

[NickCrash]

@andracass

You are indirectly or directly asserting intellectual dominance in every single post, with me as the subject of the comparison. That's patronization.

You may decide to interpret my words as patronizing or cocky, but the intention is not changed. I am asking you to read a bit better, because you've obviously misunderstod some things. I know you are stubborn, but in case you still wish to scumread, I suggest you read what I say, and not ignore them.

I'll admit I'm a bit proud of myself. I've already found 2 mafia (Paul would be the 3rd, Corso the 4th - fookin' read), and I've been asking town for info, given that's the way the uninformed majority may reach a consensus and beat this game.

 

You got 1 thing right. I am dismissing your accusation.

It's obvious you didn't read what I wrote. You even admitted in your previous comment.

Had you done, and done carefully, you would have understood what I meant what I said "I found 2 mafia" or look at the role list. Or why I'm voting for Corso when Paul is definite to die. I never asked people to protect Paul, for you to accuse me of protecting him. 

Btw how can I not feel amuzed when I read this "I think I found who the last mafia is" and you direct it at me?

 

The argument (a bit simplified) is this "Hey, this person is playing well. He seems to be town. Nah he's mafia. Let's vote him"

Then you come with the (exaggerated, if I may) point that I'm trying to prove I'm town.

I'll have you provide those explicit comments I made before D4 that you thought were suspicious enough and would, by your experience (of which I'm sure you have a lot, and I mean this unironically), that they are indicative of a mafia trying to appear towny. Because, you know, I could simply be town, and this is a Town-V-Town.

 

To me, it just seems you have already formed an opinion and are grasping at straws in order to find fragments of comments that would suit your narrative.

As mentioned above, that's called an a-priori theory, and is ignoring everything that might debunk it.

 

If you're going to accuse me of "linguistic tricks" and in the same comment doubt my understanding of the English language, I'm going to have problems understanding your point of view. I was certainly not paying too much attention to wordplay. I'm using facts. Not emotion. Get those two separated.

That mention of "we" is a bit over-over-overreading. You should know better than anyone that votes can be used as a method of applying pressure.

 

Take a step back and re-evaluate the position. 

That's what I did. When I find myself focusing too much on something, I take my time to evaluate things from a more spherical perspective.

You accused me of changing my strategy there, but I don't know where you wish to go with that.

 

Let's do it straightforward

How do you evaluate this statement

"DIVE IS JUNKO"

 

[NickCrash]

About your vote on Candy, I really haven't made note of it.

Here's what I have noted

 

 

VOTES
Candy    (6): Dive, Paul, Corso, Nick, Bok
Paul     (1): Lykos
Eviora   (1): Jace
Jace     (1): Eviora, (Bean1)
Corso    (1): Bean2
 

 

That's what I wrote when I gave Amine what had happened so far (direct c+p from my note).

You may go back for reference for this one.

[andracass]

@NickCrash