Chances against Bosses

[Linark]

Before I start, better to say i've delt with heavy luck dependant games like X-Com, Fire Emblem or Blood Bowl and I know sometimes the luck goes against you and it sucks. And that I find Reborn overall pretty good as a fan game, so congratulations to the dev for the game.

But I really have a quarrel with this game unlike any other game I've played cause it happens way too often against bosses:

- Against non boss npcs, I get the normal luck I get from all games I've played: sometimes average, sometimes bad, sometimes good.

- But once I engage bosses, the amount of crits their pokemons get to finish off my mon, the amount of times i miss hits when I'm about to Ko their last and normaly hardest mon (I'm on Titania and I've missed SO MANY attacks with a 90-95 chance when her damn Aegislash was one hit from KO), the amount of times my mons gets paralized on their turn, the amount of times THEIR mons pass through paralyzed/confused status, or just straight up wake after 1 turn when I manage to hit with Hypnosis (another damn ability that "mysteriously" misses most of the times against bosses)...and the damn lsit goes on.

As said, I've played games like X-Com with the long war mod, so I know what bad luck bias can be. And I know it's that, pure luck. Missing a damn 98% hit to an alien head is frustrating, but part of the fun. But in Reborn this happens SO DAMN OFTEN and CONSITENTLY on boss battles that it's NOT fun. Seems like a cheap way to make them harder.
Asked another friend that was trying Reborn. We aren't big fans of pokemon games, but we do enjoy hard tactical games. So after another friend told us about how hard this game could be, we were thrilled. We even went on the web to learn about EV training and everything. After some weeks playing, my friend is stuck at Terra and has been telling me how much he thinks the game is rigged on boss battles too. A guy who plays Blood Bowl on max dificulty without ever calling the AI a cheater is now "sure" the AI cheats in Reborn boss battles.

Anyone feels the same or has found that boss battles seem to "increase" the opponents luck?

[wcv]

4 minutes ago, Linark said:

After some weeks playing, my friend is stuck at Terra and has been telling me how much he thinks the game is rigged on boss battles too.

What problems is he having with Terra? I found her to be one of the easiest gym leaders, with only that f*****g Quagsire presenting a problem.

 

5 minutes ago, Linark said:

Anyone feels the same or has found that boss battles seem to "increase" the opponents luck?

No.

[Arys]

1 hour ago, Linark said:

Anyone feels the same or has found that boss battles seem to "increase" the opponents luck?

You might think that especially when you get flinch by the boss a lot for no reason. Anyway, Terra might be annoying but it's far more beatable than that mewtwo... I think I even beat it with two or three filler pokemon I used to beat mewtwo. Buy a lot of cotton candy!

[Monochrome_Complex]

The game doesn't rig itself against the player as far as I know, and there have been times where I 've gotten rotten luck(like serra's frosslass freezing incineroar off one ice beam, him never defrosting then sweeping the entire party or when a wild diglett made me flinch 6 times straight with astonish) . That said none of the fights are completely unwinnable, and you can actually beat all of them without using a single potion or revive if you prepared a good team and know what you're doing.

 

Mind you for terra her Garchomp can spam draco meteor and never suffer the penalty drop since that field uses the higher special stat to determine the damage of special moves, thus it's using Garchomp's special defense meaning the special attack drop off Draco meteor doesn't actually weaken it. It's best to drop garchomp's special defense instead if you plan on weakening it. 

 

[PyroShadow117]

I found Terra to be pretty easy, then again I was using a contrary serperior, plus for most fights you want to stock up on healing items, even for normal npc's, I've had more issues with some normal npc's than some bosses

 

Spoiler

Except for a few Pulse Pokemon, those things nearly kill me

 

[Monochrome_Complex]

I find that a lot of people don't bother having a grass main on their team unless they started off with one.  Not to mention how grass is effectively useless for charlotte and risky against blake(though actually good against half his team offensively)  so by the time you reach terra they are likely underlevelled..  Then again only two of her pokemon are actually weak to grass, and both of them negate that weakness with their seeds. Plus a grass physical attacker(RIP leafeon) is useless on her field anyway.

 

I wouldn't call her easy, because 3 of her pokemon can be very difficult to take down, 3 hit pretty hard and her field is extremely gimmicky, Luckily quasire, hippowdon and palossand aren't THAT strong offensively.

 

 

 

[HahnSolo]

As much as I feel ya with the terrible luck, I really doubt there's any extra 'luck' involved with leaders or any of the story npcs. I think its more of observer bias. We sort of see more unfortunate things because were in a situation that is more difficult than normal. Not to mention, there are a a lot of the elements can be accounted for to completely eliminate bad 'luck'. Critical hits can be remedied with abilities like battle armor or items/moves that can lower or remove the chances. You could also just brute force it with reflect or defense buffs. Low accuracy moves can be fixed with the wide lens or hone claws. Unfortunate burns, or para-hax from moves like scald or body slam can be fixed with moves like Aromatherapy, safeguard, or just equipping 'mons with berries. I think the extra chance elements add to the challenge, and aren't so much unfair as they are part of the game itself and can be remedied. 

 

I don't mean to be that guy, but @wcv is right. Terra was a pretty easy fight. The field sets gen 1 rules, meaning blizzard has 90% accuracy, and her entire team is neutral to x4 weak to ice. A quick set up and you can sweep her with ease. There's plenty of useful strategies around the forums if your friend is still having trouble with her or any of the other gyms. 

 

 

[GGLL]

Don't forget that in that field effect and generation 1, having higher speed than your target increases your critical hit ratio.Between bulldoze and her Garchomp's speed, she is able to increase her critical hits.Maybe that is why your friend  gets hit by so many crits.Beyond that and Serra's evasion battle, I don't think there is any increased luck involved for the bosses. At least, not that I have noticed. 

 

[Linark]

Hey, thanks for the answers.

 

First, I'm not the one struggling with terra, it's a friend with whom i started playing Reborn. He got Clawitzer now and managed to deal with her easy. I'm currently fighting Titania and boy, that Aegislash is nuking me. Managed to get it to one hit 5 times, but those 5 times my blaze kick MISSED! It was frustrating.

Second, as I said, I'm not a stranger to confirmation bias. I've played a 70+ hours X Com long war campaing, and even tried ironman once and got my main squad killed after some VERY unlucky shots on a 30+ hours campaing. That normally means restart in long war. But Reborn has been the first time I've really felt like the AI was cheating luck. Of course, could be confirmation bias, but man, it has happened so much agaisnt bosses.

[Linark]

Managed to beat Titania using florges grassy terrain for Aegislash, and then bringing Blaziken out. DAMN this one was a pain.

[Abyssreaper99]

I'd say the boss chances are relatively fair, with the odd bit of frustration. Be lucky you didn't have to face earlier versions of Shelly, Florinia, Serra and Aya. They were a nightmare compared to now.

[Linark]

On Amaria now and sorry, but I can't accept something weird isn't happening with boss fights. To check this "luck" I tried the same starting combo for 8 tries. Just to check probabilities. Her Ludicolo's scald has burnt my pokemon 11 times from 15 times he has used it. Thats more than 66% probability, even when it's a 30% according to sources. My Hypnosis has missed 8 times out of 10 times. Hypnosis has a 60% chance, seems like a 20%, cause this hasn't happened only during Amaria, but with most boss fights I've tried with my Bronzong on the team. Which, btw, gets one shot by her Swampert's dive with 270 defence, is that normal? (this question isn't a rant about luck, but just a question I had). I also had 2 ice beams from Ludicolo FREEZING my pokemon. I know this were just 2 attacks, but damn, it only adds more to my suspicion. I've also missed 2 hydro pumps from 4 attacks made by my Empoleon.

Maybe I'm just being unlucky as hell, but as i said, it's hard not to have doubts when it's CONSTANT. As i said, on random NPCS, or some semi bosses (Taka and the likes) I'm not having this problem, and I've lost my share of fights too against them, but I could easily see the fault was my team setup against them, not LUCK.
I swear, if i had NORMAL luck, I would have beaten Titania in 2-3 tries, but she took over 8 due to last hits missing and crits. And I'm pretty sure I would have beaten Amaria basicaly on the first try, specially since my florges could deal with 3 of her pokemon alone, and Chesnaught destroys everyone except ludicolo. But very bad luck ment I had to try around 4 times (had a pretty good team for Amaria, must say)

Edited June 8, 2018 by Linark

[Tapu Fufu]

I'd recommend Abomasnow for Terra and Amaria. It puts in some work against both, especially since it can alter Amaria's field and then dish some damage afterwards.

[Tapu Fufu]

I hope double-posting is allowed, but I just wanted to say that I kind of agree that it seems like the odds are stacked against you in this game and the similar ones like Rejuvenation. I don't have nearly as much bad luck in other types of games, fangames or official, as I do in these ones. Based off the Poketubers I've watched play it (and I've watched plenty), it seems like I'm not the only one who gets bombarded with an unnatural amount of crits, 10% chance status, and misses of moves with high accuracy. It's definitely made me wonder if it's just a coincidence or if that was implemented to up the difficulty of the game.

 

And yes, before I get bombarded with claims of being salty or whatever, I know there's a good chance me and the others are just having sour luck. 

[wcv]

11 hours ago, Linark said:

Which, btw, gets one shot by her Swampert's dive with 270 defence, is that normal?

Depends, what is its health?

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by wcv

[Abyssreaper99]

11 hours ago, Linark said:

On Amaria now and sorry, but I can't accept something weird isn't happening with boss fights. To check this "luck" I tried the same starting combo for 8 tries. Just to check probabilities. Her Ludicolo's scald has burnt my pokemon 11 times from 15 times he has used it. Thats more than 66% probability, even when it's a 30% according to sources. My Hypnosis has missed 8 times out of 10 times. Hypnosis has a 60% chance, seems like a 20%, cause this hasn't happened only during Amaria, but with most boss fights I've tried with my Bronzong on the team. Which, btw, gets one shot by her Swampert's dive with 270 defence, is that normal? (this question isn't a rant about luck, but just a question I had). I also had 2 ice beams from Ludicolo FREEZING my pokemon. I know this were just 2 attacks, but damn, it only adds more to my suspicion. I've also missed 2 hydro pumps from 4 attacks made by my Empoleon.

Maybe I'm just being unlucky as hell, but as i said, it's hard not to have doubts when it's CONSTANT. As i said, on random NPCS, or some semi bosses (Taka and the likes) I'm not having this problem, and I've lost my share of fights too against them, but I could easily see the fault was my team setup against them, not LUCK.
I swear, if i had NORMAL luck, I would have beaten Titania in 2-3 tries, but she took over 8 due to last hits missing and crits. And I'm pretty sure I would have beaten Amaria basicaly on the first try, specially since my florges could deal with 3 of her pokemon alone, and Chesnaught destroys everyone except ludicolo. But very bad luck ment I had to try around 4 times (had a pretty good team for Amaria, must say)

As you've said, hypnosis is a low accuracy move. You could have just had a bad match or something but using an accuracy enhancing item should reduce this. Swampert one shotting your bronzong is down to a mixture of it's high attack stat and the enhancement of dive in both the water surface and underwater fields (correct me if I'm wrong but all water moves are 1.5x more powerful and certain moves such as dive and surf get an additional 1.5x multiplier of power). Hydro pump also tends to miss fairly often to (I know 80% accuracy but still).

 

What abilities did Titania's pokemon have that you kept missing moves on? If she switched out her A. Sandslash and brought it back later then it could be because of it's snow cloak ability.

[GenEric]

20 minutes ago, Abyssreaper99 said:

As you've said, hypnosis is a low accuracy move. You could have just had a bad match or something but using an accuracy enhancing item should reduce this. Swampert one shotting your bronzong is down to a mixture of it's high attack stat and the enhancement of dive in both the water surface and underwater fields (correct me if I'm wrong but all water moves are 1.5x more powerful and certain moves such as dive and surf get an additional 1.5x multiplier of power). Hydro pump also tends to miss fairly often to (I know 80% accuracy but still).

 

What abilities did Titania's pokemon have that you kept missing moves on? If she switched out her A. Sandslash and brought it back later then it could be because of it's snow cloak ability.

a-slash has slush rush

[Monochrome_Complex]

Hmm I do wonder if it's just RPG maker's way of simulating "chance" and if there's any difference compared to the regular games.

[Yagami]

If Reborn had the traditional 8 gym format then there wouldn't be that many boss battle or hard battle.So you wouldn't have noticed any difference in luck.

I think since Reborn is a really big game gameplay wise.So there are a lot of boss battles so RNG seems to get more noticeable in the game.I had 3 or 4 saves of the game all of which has over 70 hours of gameplay.

Because of field effects,many moves accuracy may change.For example,in previous episodes(not entirely sure in current episode),blizzard had 90% accuracy in glitch field.I mean Terra would be a piece of cake.

I recommend using 90 or 100% accuracy moves.If the move is 90% accuracy,let the pokemon hold wide lens for an accuracy boost.

I find it a bit funny that you went on looking on web to know about EV training.It's not a bad thing but it's not really that necessary.It's only needed if you are doing a challenged run.This is coming from a guy who didn't even know the diff. between physical and special moves and most of the times just used pokemons that I liked.

Later in the game,I only lost to some gym leaders because I was really underleveled not because of bad luck.

If you check some of field effects,you will find so many loopholes that you will be surprised.

If you look for some topics,you will find so many interesting and hilarious ways people found to beat the gym leaders.Though some of them may be outdated.

So I don't think Reborn's boss have better luck.

[dragonsbeat]

i think thatb in every boss battle there's a single mon that will destroy them for example a krickertune for florinia or a carvanah for that lvl75 garchomp it's just you have to be smart try reading the field effect cause most of the time you can use them to your advantage they change moves accuraccy and change the chances of secondary effects

[DiamondTiaraIsBest]

Wait, once you get to over half of the total badges collected, the game starts getting easier. The availability of useful TMs,, strong pokemon, strong items and the money to invest into making your pokemon perfect trivializes it.

 

The only late game gym leader I had trouble with was Charlotte, and that was my own fault for stubbornly sticking to a team that focuses on my preferred aesthetics instead of actually using strong pokemon.  There's way too much grass or bug types on my team (Lilligant, Roserade, Serperior, Vivillion, Masquerain, Lurantis, Tsareena) , the water types were countered by the field and I had no Ground types at all. By contrast the Terra fight I sweeped with Contrary Serperior.

 

Anyone else was a cakewalk.

 

It also may be me but I never experienced a streak of unlucky rolls like you seemed to have.

[CapoKitty]

I have experienced this from time to time - but I've never been wiped yet (so far). The closest I've been to wiping was against Bennett before I faced Serra - I went from 6 pokemon down to 2 - and about 2-3 revives and no easy way to restore health without a pokemon fainting in the process. That being said, as difficult as the game gets at times, if you put some time to out your next boss or gym battle - i.e., team composition (if possible), field effects (for gyms at least) - which I always prefer to use the communication device to get info as soon as I enter a gym, and then battle a trainer to gauge my team's compatibility to the field effects, etc., it gets a little easier. 

 

I really don't think luck has anything to do with it - but that's my opinion; I think its a part of the game design, to be honest. I haven't had too much trouble with dealing with this because I try to be as prepared as possible before gym and boss battles - however, the latter is more difficult to predict ahead of time, so I basically alternate pokemon based off what my opponent is sending in or I think of what pokemon my opponent is switching in to based off either previous battles or the makeup of the pokemon that my opponent has used so far. In my opinion, its all about tactics and strategy for dealing with boss and gym battles, as well as my obsession with being prepared for almost any obstacle in the game. But that is just my opinion.

 

Spoiler

Though, I am using mods in my game to help with leveling and making sure I don't overshoot the level cap. I have only been using mods from the forum that deal with experience points, and adding the Pokemon Insurgence rule (when a pokemon hits the level cap it either earns 1 or zero experience points) to the game.