[Mafia Won] Back to the Basic II: Hard Boiled

[Daniel Blackworth]

@purplecicada Could you expound more on what you think about Andracass and Cataline?

 

Rereading Day 1, I have updated my reads. Due to the minimal amount of activity, it's hard to glean alignment-indicative notions, but here's what I have at the moment:

 

TOWNIEST

Paul - From D1, their first post was somewhat suspicious to me because they immediately OMGUSed Zero, but their response to Zero's vote is natural in his next post where he simply denies being mafia. I feel like if he were mafia, he would have reacted more defensively and not just dismissed it. I also like their initiative to look into the deaths today and it's more or less one of the few serious posts as of yet.

Purplecicada - Their ideas are vague and there's a lack of elaboration especially with regards to what should be done or what she observed, but I feel that it's genuine town behavior from her part. Mafia!Nicki tries harder to appear that they're contributing when they're not.

 

Candy - She's had only a few posts and from what I've seen, she gave a bit of insight on the Psychologist while the other post was mostly filler. I'd be inclined to think it's scummy but given the volume of posts and her behavior in a certain game, I'm inclined to think she's town, though not that high.

ZeroPassion - His early vote spurred some responses and when asked, he more or less said that it was random. He gave some thought on Knightly and interacted a little. I feel like all of those are natural, so town-ish.

Cataline - Her innocent and seemingly ignorant behavior comes off to me as a mix of suspicious and not suspicious, mostly because she tries to encourage activity, but isn't doing much of her own. But I'm going to judge it as non-suspicious because it seems natural of Cat who hasn't played much in a while.

 

Sosobean - I can never read this guy, so ???

 

Walpurgis - She's done relatively little in this game aside from unexplained votes and saying that she has a hard time of keeping up with the game. I feel like she could do better even with a hard time of keeping up, so I'm inclined to suspect her because she could fake things to appear low profile.

Alaris - He gave some explanation to Detective/Psychologist, but had little to say afterwards and mostly joke-posted today. Town!Alaris is more vocal and tonally serious, so he feels off to me.

BokChoi - He said that there's nobody to lynch because there's nothing to defend or accuse, but that simply seems like he's trying to not contribute anything and even with two deaths already, he simply reacted jokingly, without any note of him trying to defend or accuse despite his earlier statement.

Andracass - Andracass feels tonally... off. I've only played with her in one game, but her behavior is heavily different. She hardly shared anything even some thought to Detective/Psychologist while her D2 is mostly non-serious. Being non-serious isn't inherently suspicious, but going by what I've seen in the other game, there's a lack of motivation and initiative to solve the game from her. I also didn't quite like her most recent post because she appears to be defending an unjustified vote and encouraging discussion but not starting one.

WOLFIEST

 

Still four wolves on the list, but I can't remove anyone from those I suspect yet. 

 

Going to throw a vote here. 

[Eliminate] Andracass

[Daniel Blackworth]

@andracass

To sheep means to follow something without any good reason to.

 

Also, you could start your own discussion instead of simply reacting to something.

[andracass]

@Mazino Divergent I'm aware of what it means to sheep. I'm saying that I was definitely going to vote for the person who actually bothered to raise their hand, and am accounting for the fact that i can change my vote.

[andracass]

Also, just in case this comes off as something different, this is more of an explanation and less of a defense. I'm certainly not going to defend my vote, and was going to change it as things progressed. 

 

It's also probably worth noting that this is my second game, and if you're wondering why I don't have much to say yet it's probably because I have little to no sense of how the rest of you play.  This is probably a bit more relevant in comparison to @Mazino Divergent since his reads are almost completely based on past experience.

 

(edited to avoid large number of posts)

[Alaris]

Oh, seriously? Well now that's interesting.

 

Lía and Andracass are quite suspicious to me. Who starts a BW out of that? Because, I mean, asking the culprits to raise their hand should not have very high expectations of success...

 

Also, I'm not sure of why Paul says Knightly was the maf kill and L'Belle was the vig. I mean, I think it's pretty clear from Nick's post that it was the other way round. So I could also see it as a way to distract us. Although admittedly, this kind of distracting is quite useless in this game, since we do not have a tracker, but it could help to frame someone.

 

Dive, I was not being analytical cause there was nothing to analyse. When I posted that, all the previous comments looked like a bunch of random things to me. Now that people are starting to talk, things are certainly changing. I'll wait a little bit more to vote, though.

[andracass]

[unvote] Alaris

I suppose the fun can end now.

[Daniel Blackworth]

@andracass I understand how it's your second game yet, however, I still find your previous behavior untowny, although that could turn out different in later parts of the game. I'd like to know. What do you think of certain players? Any particular behavior which stood out to you? Anyone you think is towny?

 

Also, just for posterity, the fun is far from over. Essentially, mafia is fun because of the way you try to find out people's motives and intentions, and the struggle in doing so.

 

@Alaris Are you willing to place a vote on either? Also, Paul probably didn't read the phase post. Not everyone reads it as I sometimes just look at who dies depending on the game.

 

Did you notice anything from the first day? Anything that feels off based on tone, wording, or other factors from other people?

[Walpurgis]

I mean Alaris has to be mafia sooner or later.

I voted Alaris just to shake things up a bit and to see what the initial reactions were. I agree that Cass seems to be acting differently (?) but it could perfectly be that she feels more comfortable with the comunity comunitty community. I'd wait to see how her behavior develops during the game

While it's true that this doesn't make me less suspicious I think it should be obvious that I have been more busy/less here lately, just look at troubleshooting/my activity almost everywhere.

Cat is a hard one to read for me i can't see her ever being a meanie

And I'd like to point out that all Nicki has done so far is staying more silent than usual except for saying other players are suspicious. She maybe noticed that she was getting lynched really early in previous games and decided to play it more safe this time/she doesn't feel so under pressure since she is a vanilla townie, but I think it's a change that should be noticed.

[Bok Choi]

I was looking through past posts trying to look for something that gave off a strange vibe, and most things I saw were either useless filler or Dive's analysis. And looking at yesterday's posts, I couldn't come to a conclusion I was confident about as to why maf would target either Belle or Knightly so that's why I didn't know what to contribute at first. I can try to discuss, but it's quite difficult when Dive sees so much that I just can't >_<

but that's what back to the basics is for so I should get gud.

 

However, Cat's intro post struck me as odd as I was sleeping on it last night.

 

"I'm totally probably a townie. Whether or not vanilla waits to be seeeeen".

 

I would think one would have no problem claiming a vanilla town, but she says she could be either. And by implying that she could have an action, that would just make her a bigger target for mad, right? Which is why I think it's strange. Just my two cents, because I don't think anybody pointed this out yesterday.

 

I didn't really think Cass was too suspicious really, she and I were just trying to respond to Cat's prompts for discussion.

 

[Walpurgis]

I don't think mafia needs a reason to target anyone, what bothers me the most is the vigilante kill.

Also I personally wouldn't ever trust any claim that doesnt have solid proof behind it, I don't think it's weird mafia didn't target Cat, even tho that doesn't make her less suspicious

[NickCrash]

ANNOUNCEMENT

 

There has been an external source that wanted Candy out of the game.

I'm bringing you another prisoner, sailboat, who will take her place. 

Treat him with care. Or not. I don't mind either way.

[Chickens]

Cass i believe you are the murderer

 

my ability tells me so

[ELIMINATEA] ANDRACASS

[Cataline]

What do you expect from someone who has only ever played Mafia/3rd party besides her literal first time (discounting the this and the other game I'm currently in) but of course, that does put me at an interesting advantage if I am Mafia nyahahaha~ Caaause no one can expect me to say much!

Regardless, I found the bandwagon suspicious not because we did it but because I responded after a couple pwecious hours and no development had arisen. Was it to early?I don't know but we seem more active now.

Anyways Lia is right, why would mafia kill me? When I've been usually quite useless and am a good girl to BW on? I'm useful, for them! 

@Bok ChoiI say I can be either maf/town vanilla or not caaaause I can, technically. Cause you don't know for sure until I'm dead or if Psych confirms or whatever.

Anyways look look we're finally talking yay yay!!

@ZeroPassion

You're quiet, why don't you join the party, it's ok if you want to talk about me! Just come on in! You too @purplecicada

[Chickens]

Ahyes

additional info in page 1 says tat corso is mafia

however he is dead

so I think nick must be mistaken

so

the one above or below corso should be mafia

i suggest vigilante to kill cataline and nick

[sailboat]

Hi uncle boat here subbing in fer

 

alright actually i was already stalking this thread before you pulled me in nick pool kek. and my first stance is glad that vigi knows what they are doing worthy of points right there tbh. also, i disagree with psychologist pick tbh only three days of usefulness kek. and with the probability of hitting correct target is minimal at most unless they know what to watch out fer. I know detective can be koed before it becomes useful but tbh with ya both psych and det are both one time useful really cuz once they reveal they are already dead. lmfao so i prefer the once that can be used late game and can be preserved if town will just hide the tree in the forest properly.

 

Anyway, i'll be xchecking everything that was said so far and iirc i think i can build a railroad into something kek
 

P.S i also always wonder why play defensively when most are vanilla lmfao. to whom is that message for? oh just throwing salt to the wind

[Chickens]

Lemme say psychologist sucks

tonight is the last chance for him to find mafia

from tomorrow onwards

all results will turn out negative

cause all mafia will have killed someone unless the person who kills is determined randomly

that said, detective isn't that good too

considering the amount of players we have in this game

but eh

 

[Alaris]

8 hours ago, Mazino Divergent said:

 

@Alaris Are you willing to place a vote on either?

No, I am not, tbh. It's not that much of an off move from Walpurgis, it's definitely not the first time she does that being town.

I might interpret Andra's jump on the BW as a joke or, rather, as a clumsy attempt to enlarge that BW. I believe it's the former though.

 

8 hours ago, Mazino Divergent said:

Did you notice anything from the first day? Anything that feels off based on tone, wording, or other factors from other people?

Nothing in the first day. Today, however, I see something odd in your comments. I simply don't buy your explanations in the towniest-scummiest players. You give the same reasons (or equivalent ones) for considering a player as town and another as a scum. For example: you say Nicki didn't contribute, therefore she's town cause when she's mafia, she usually does. However, you then say that Bok seems scummy because he hasn't contributed either. You don't compare it with any other past games: you just say Bok looks scummy. How is that you're using different yardsticks? Please explain. To my eyes, it seems that you are classifying players just to your convenience with quite flimsy arguments.

 

1 hour ago, sailboat said:

alright actually i was already stalking this thread before you pulled me in nick pool kek. and my first stance is glad that vigi knows what they are doing worthy of points right there tbh.

Could you explain that for me? I don't get it.

 

---

 

Change of topic: we may have jumped to a hasty conclusion regarding N1's events. I was now re-reading the OP and there are several ways to produce a second death:

1. Hider picking the Vigilante or a Mafia. According to the OP, the Hider would die instantly.

2. Hider picking the person targeted by the Mafia. In such case, they would both die, according to the OP.

3. Vigilante shot.

 

Although Nick's wording appears to convey that it was the Vig's job indeed, we shouldn't rule out the other possibilities. What do you think about all this?

 

---

 

I'll put my little list (with no particular order):

 

N/A:

Bean -> He actually seems towny, but who knows... He's actually attempting to make good reads.

 

Neutral:

Boat -> Nothing to say here. He seems town, but there's way too little info.

Bok -> Same. He looks town.

Lía -> Not much to work with. I'd say there's nothing off in her comments... not yet, at least.

Paul -> I find him quite hard to read. I have nothing to say on him.

Nicki -> I don't have enough info yet.

 

Moderately scummy:

Cataline -> Her comments are stuffed with apparently nonchalant notes and she's not actually making reads. I could consider that as a way to divert attention.

ZeroPassion -> She voted randomly on day 1, and she doesn't appear to be willing to contribute. I'd say she's trying to lay low.

Andracass -> Her attitude has changed compared to the only other game I've seen her in, and she was town. That carefree jump on my BW might make me think that she wanted to exploit it further.

Dive -> Explained above; I think he's trying to look towny but his list looks like a convenient shuffling of the players.

[andracass]

 

10 hours ago, Alaris said:

Lía and Andracass are quite suspicious to me. Who starts a BW out of that? Because, I mean, asking the culprits to raise their hand should not have very high expectations of success...

It was a joke. Forget it.

As for the kills last night, I'd expect the narration to be a little bit different if the hider was killed. Possibilities 1 and 2 are technically possible, but I'm leaning toward 3 because of that.

[andracass]

The psychologist/detective choice may make a difference in how the mafia plays.

If there's a psychologist, then they'd be able to rotate who does the killing and they'd have nothing to do late in the game. The psychologist's best odds of finding a killer are tonight, as there's a 2/9ths chance of finding someone, but it'll slowly go down after that. If there's a detective, the detective would have nothing to do on N1 but would have the same 2/9ths chance of finding someone tonight, with the odds of finding someone going up over time as more people die.

So if the mafia lays low for the beginning and cycles through murderers, the psychologist will become pretty useless pretty fast.

[ZeroPassion]

hmm

[ZeroPassion]

@purplecicada I see you say cat is acting strange and you feel there's a reason for cass's behavior, but what makes you say that?

 

 

@Paul25 you talk about the scenarios of who killed who but you aren't clear on what you believe is the case. As far as I'm concerned, I find it irrelevant on who has killed who right now and focus on catching scum, although what do you believe is the case since you brought it up? I ask this to see how you view the game as of now.

[Walpurgis]

To be fair depending on the playstyle of someone some things can be considered a sign of being mafia or not, but now that you mention it I feel Dive's reads are a bit more bland than usual, especially his reads on Bok and Cass.

Quote

BokChoi - He said that there's nobody to lynch because there's nothing to defend or accuse, but that simply seems like he's trying to not contribute anything and even with two deaths already, he simply reacted jokingly, without any note of him trying to defend or accuse despite his earlier statement.

In the case of Bok even if his attitude hasn't been the most helpful to the town and scumhunting it totally aligns with his playstyle and personality. I really doubt he would pull something like that as mafia with the intentions Dive says he has. But in my opinion the biggest thing is the "he simply reacted jokingly". We are playing a game in a friendly community, so it's normal for people to be playful and joking. I feel that sentence kinda tries to appeal to some kind of feeling like "he mocked the death of two innocents" to make the argument against ok ~stronger~ but it's totally out of place here, it feels somewhat forced.

Quote

Andracass - Andracass feels tonally... off. I've only played with her in one game, but her behavior is heavily different. She hardly shared anything even some thought to Detective/Psychologist while her D2 is mostly non-serious. Being non-serious isn't inherently suspicious, but going by what I've seen in the other game, there's a lack of motivation and initiative to solve the game from her. I also didn't quite like her most recent post because she appears to be defending an unjustified vote and encouraging discussion but not starting one.

While I agree Cass' tone is different from the Life keeps Killing Cass I don't think this is a reason to put her as the most suspicious. It's normal to be more tense/serious when it's your first game here and you don't know the community, but I feel she now feels less out of place and more integrated in the community (thanks to being in both the discord for this game and the club's discord), so I think her loosening up a bit is totally normal. I also feel you are putting her as the scummiest because it's a low risk/high reward move. It's unquestionable that her attitude is different from what we have seen in the other game she's played, so most people wouldnt disagree that's suspicious and it's easy to begin a bw against her, but once she flips to be town you can use the fact that we don't know her that much yet to justify your accusation.

[Unvote] Alaris

[Eliminate] Dive

[cicada]

 I just wanted to bring some discussion to the game. It kind of worked.

 

Cass' behaviour has shifted in this game, but I don't think that's solid enough evidence to lynch her.

 

Town read on Lía for the contributions and points she just made above.

 

I'm trying to keep this post short and simple because I'm tired and don't feel like analysing right now.

 

I'm gonna do this because I'm not feeling motivated at the moment to thoroughly analyse posts:

[eliminate] Cataline.

 

Just because her behaviour's a little bit erratic.

[Daniel Blackworth]

Quote

Nothing in the first day. Today, however, I see something odd in your comments. I simply don't buy your explanations in the towniest-scummiest players. You give the same reasons (or equivalent ones) for considering a player as town and another as a scum. For example: you say Nicki didn't contribute, therefore she's town cause when she's mafia, she usually does. However, you then say that Bok seems scummy because he hasn't contributed either. You don't compare it with any other past games: you just say Bok looks scummy. How is that you're using different yardsticks? Please explain. To my eyes, it seems that you are classifying players just to your convenience with quite flimsy arguments

@Alaris I see. It seems you didn't understand my reads too well. On my read on Nicki, I never stated that she didn't contribute. I said that she contributed, but there's a lack of elaboration and while it is lacking, I feel it is genuine on her part. I then compared it with her metagame as mafia where I've observed that as mafia, she tries hard to appear contributory when all she contributes are things that have already been said in a better packaged post.

 

Also, I dislike how you summarize my read on Bok in a flimsy manner. Read it carefully. I don't see why I should compare this to other games. Arguably, the only reason I'm using meta is as a means of gauging whether certain suspicious actions are possible actions they could use as town, but in Bok's case, I can't do so because I haven't played with Bok enough to know him too well, thus, I described my observations on him in this game accordingly.

 

How am I classifying players based on my convenience? Define "flimsy" arguments. To me, it seems like you're attacking my reads for weak reasons through misrepresentation and it feels like you're motivated to say it's to my own convenience out of personal agenda.

[Daniel Blackworth]

Quote

Change of topic: we may have jumped to a hasty conclusion regarding N1's events. I was now re-reading the OP and there are several ways to produce a second death:

1. Hider picking the Vigilante or a Mafia. According to the OP, the Hider would die instantly.

2. Hider picking the person targeted by the Mafia. In such case, they would both die, according to the OP.

3. Vigilante shot.

 

Although Nick's wording appears to convey that it was the Vig's job indeed, we shouldn't rule out the other possibilities. What do you think about all this?

Both who died were Vanilla Town. None of them flipped Hider.

 

Quote

N/A:

Bean -> He actually seems towny, but who knows... He's actually attempting to make good reads.

 

Neutral:

Boat -> Nothing to say here. He seems town, but there's way too little info.

Bok -> Same. He looks town.

Lía -> Not much to work with. I'd say there's nothing off in her comments... not yet, at least.

Paul -> I find him quite hard to read. I have nothing to say on him.

Nicki -> I don't have enough info yet.

 

Moderately scummy:

Cataline -> Her comments are stuffed with apparently nonchalant notes and she's not actually making reads. I could consider that as a way to divert attention.

ZeroPassion -> She voted randomly on day 1, and she doesn't appear to be willing to contribute. I'd say she's trying to lay low.

Andracass -> Her attitude has changed compared to the only other game I've seen her in, and she was town. That carefree jump on my BW might make me think that she wanted to exploit it further.

Dive -> Explained above; I think he's trying to look towny but his list looks like a convenient shuffling of the players

I don't like your reads either. I don't like how you classify town and neutral in one place, but most of all, you don't even describe how someone "looks" town, not even giving any examples as to that.

 

On the other hand, I don't like the way you scumread Andracass. It feels like a lame way to read her when you said she wanted to exploit it further. I don't how exploiting works in that case when it was more or less a joke vote.