Pokemon Reborn Pentaop is Here

[Candy]

11 hours ago, nepeta100 said:

What a wild beginning for twit 4 died pre gym also I'm a little annoyed with their hate for Victoria before the gym

Haven't seen the episode yet but I thought hating Victoria before the gym was standard?

[Abyssreaper99]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

Haven't seen the episode yet but I thought hating Victoria before the gym was standard?

Doesn't everyone hate on her here because shes a roadblock, that's it

[Elvenlore]

8 minutes ago, Abyssreaper99 said:

Doesn't everyone hate on her here because shes a roadblock, that's it

Yep. "Oh, you have this really important place to go to to do this really important thing with not much time? Well I can't let you do that. FITE ME SCRUB 1v1 LET'S GO"

[Dex]

1 minute ago, Elvenlore said:

Yep. "Oh, you have this really important place to go to to do this really important thing with not much time? Well I can't let you do that. FITE ME SCRUB 1v1 LET'S GO"

 

The bad part is that it's not the first time she does it too, remember when you enter the Obsidia Ward for the first time. 

[Wolfox]

Sadly Victoria is hated because she's a "roadblock" (Huh, Blue was basically just that but without a reason and is considered one of the best rivals in the canon series. double standards much?) But what many seem to forget when talking about this is that from Victoria's point she's doing what's right. With shelly, she believes Shely should have more time to recuperate with what happened. With Kiki, need I even explain? Kiki is like a Mother to her and she's dying. a high octane battle could literally mean the end. In Obsidia before the Slums, she wants to stop you to Protect YOU. What would YOU do in these situations? I'll tell you right now that I would do the exact same thing.

[Zander]

2 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Sadly Victoria is hated because she's a "roadblock" (Huh, Blue was basically just that but without a reason and is considered one of the best rivals in the canon series. double standards much?) But what many seem to forget when talking about this is that from Victoria's point she's doing what's right. With shelly, she believes Shely should have more time to recuperate with what happened. With Kiki, need I even explain? Kiki is like a Mother to her and she's dying. a high octane battle could literally mean the end. In Obsidia before the Slums, she wants to stop you to Protect YOU. What would YOU do in these situations? I'll tell you right now that I would do the exact same thing.

If I was in the same situations then for Kiki I would have just put a barrier around her like Fern because she's supposed to be a mother figure. For everything else I wouldn't even bother because it's up to other people how they want to behave(and potentially die). Just my two cents.

[Azeria]

28 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Sadly Victoria is hated because she's a "roadblock" (Huh, Blue was basically just that but without a reason and is considered one of the best rivals in the canon series. double standards much?) But what many seem to forget when talking about this is that from Victoria's point she's doing what's right. With shelly, she believes Shely should have more time to recuperate with what happened. With Kiki, need I even explain? Kiki is like a Mother to her and she's dying. a high octane battle could literally mean the end. In Obsidia before the Slums, she wants to stop you to Protect YOU. What would YOU do in these situations? I'll tell you right now that I would do the exact same thing.

Victoria is forcing herself to do these things and is actively annoying you despite simply wanting to help, Blue's an arrogant asshole who wants to constantly 1-up you. They're both roadblocks but you're much more motivated to beat the latter and love to hate him, whereas Victoria is supposed to be liked. Calling it a double-standard isn't very off but there are very valid reasons for why people like one much more than the other. You actively want to beat Blue, whereas you don't want to fight Victoria at all.

[wcv]

Like I said previously, Victoria's biggest character flaw is being unable to see the bigger picture. She does the *right* thing in the moment, with no real thought to long-term consequences of what she's doing. Stopping a newly arrived and rookie trainer from going into the slums IS a logical thing and right thing to do. Its just that if she had succeeded the Tangrowth couldn't have been stopped, and Florinia was waiting for us to arrive regardless. Her attempting to prevent a wrong leads to a bigger one down the line. The situation with Kiki is the same. Victoria is doing the right thing in stopping us from fighting her...but at the cost of those we are supposed to be saving, which she just can't seem to see anymore.

 

That's the problem here. Its not that Victoria is a road-block per se, but rather how she's going about it. Fern also serves as a roadblock at some points, only he's doing it for selfish reasons, and hence is overall less annoying about it. Victoria is doing the same thing, but she's doing it for selfless reasons.

[Feng Lei]

Victoria is an excellent example of how the Greater Good is in fact a valid philosophy. She fights you always for the sake of the short-sighted immediate good, as wcv says. But for every "bad" decision she tries to stop you from, she opens the possibility for death and loss down the line. She kind of gets it after the Kiki battle. Kiki's life is important, but it is not as important as rescuing the orphans. Same with Obsidia. Your life is not so important as to preserve it when you have the potential help save the ward and its inhabitants.

 

That all said, I still like Victoria. She always gave some good exp points and I never thought of her as a problem, save in the battle at Obsidia, where she just plain got in the way.

 

Fern is also basically Blue, just with a different color. And then goes totally bad later on.

 

For me, Cain is the annoying one. His motives are not good all through this arc of story, and he constantly promises to give you the key and then refuses, despite knowing he has to do so for you. He ends up not even going to the wasteland, breaking a promise to his sister, so why all the focus on stopping you? He sure gives it to Fern right off, of all people. So if he doesn't like handing out the key(s)... I just never appreciated it.

 

I honestly think it is time for the Penta-Op to give up on the Nuzelock. It was fine at first, but they are going waaaaay too slow for comfort. At this rate they are going to get exhausted. Or too frustrated. Although they are playing it smarter than me. Surely they will destroy or nullify the dreaded Mirror Field. Otherwise, they had better find something that has Mirror Shot or Flash Cannon.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Feng Lei

[nepeta100]

Good to see the constructive talk with Victoria :). Now to talk about Kiki I think they are hating on her pretty hard yeah she didn't give what she said she would but one of them right after the battle thinks she deserved it

[Abyssreaper99]

Just watched the episode properly (internet is finally being ok), Nexus screaming about everything ends up giving me a headache. The others are ok as they don't do it as loud and all the time. Other than that, I think one of them thinking Kiki deserves it is dickish. Also Twit having another arc again, shame we didn't get to see it but at least we heard it.

[Candy]

2 hours ago, Abyssreaper99 said:

Doesn't everyone hate on her here because shes a roadblock, that's it

I hated her because she was like you have to choose between Kiki and the kids, and I'm like oh yeah? Why doesn't Kiki friggin resign if she can't do her job anymore? She gotta rest, but only after she resigns from being a gym leader. And I gotta rescue my young friends asap, you don't care don't you

[Alisae]

I just noticed that Nexus’ Sandsrew has a quick claw that he hasn’t taken off of him yet

[nepeta100]

the shuny one? he was so close to trading it away for the  pyukamuku XD

[Juice]

I'm a long time Nappy and Co. watcher, and I do agree that the Kiki scene was just awful. I don't really mind most of the voices and whether they "fit" or not, but Twit absolutely did Kiki wrong in trying to be funny. It wasn't. 

 

Mo's my favorite. Both in terms of his personality towards the game (empathy, etc) and his willingness to take this playthrough somewhat seriously. I really don't see them living too much longer. I know we've all said this nine million times, but when's the absolute last realistic point where they finally just say screw it and either a) cancel the nuzlocke portion of it or b) just cancel the entire playthrough? Aya's gym? Radomus? It's gonna be a double battle at some point. They just won't have any power to take on what the leaders throw at them. 

[Dreamy]

1 hour ago, Juice said:

I'm a long time Nappy and Co. watcher, and I do agree that the Kiki scene was just awful. I don't really mind most of the voices and whether they "fit" or not, but Twit absolutely did Kiki wrong in trying to be funny. It wasn't. 

 

Mo's my favorite. Both in terms of his personality towards the game (empathy, etc) and his willingness to take this playthrough somewhat seriously. I really don't see them living too much longer. I know we've all said this nine million times, but when's the absolute last realistic point where they finally just say screw it and either a) cancel the nuzlocke portion of it or b) just cancel the entire playthrough? Aya's gym? Radomus? It's gonna be a double battle at some point. They just won't have any power to take on what the leaders throw at them. 

Well they already said they 'lost the locke' at shade, but would play through the rest of the game, so hopefully the playthrough should never be cancelled. Maybe the nuzlocke rules will be disabled when someone runs out of living pokemon or something

[Abyssreaper99]

1 hour ago, DreamblitzX said:

Well they already said they 'lost the locke' at shade, but would play through the rest of the game, so hopefully the playthrough should never be cancelled. Maybe the nuzlocke rules will be disabled when someone runs out of living pokemon or something

So basically when Twit or Jay loses all their living mons? 

[Chiko]

I'm loving the discussion and analyzation going on in here rn, I really am.

Watching the squad get pissy as soon as someone poses a slight annoyance is getting a bit boring and you'd think theyd handle loses without calling someone a bitch/telling them to die, but what are we to do? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And like, I don't mind getting mad over losing to crits, cause that is painful, but they just have to much anger in general and it's sorta hard to watch.

 

As annoying as Victoria is early game, later in she really does improve and grow as a character, but she is still a bit impulsive n shortsighted when it comes down to it, but to me that just makes her all the more Victoria, the game isnt over yet, and she got time to grow.

 

Now Fern on the other hand... That is someone I can't wait to see kick the bucket.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Chiko

[Des Teto]

In my opinion, Victoria is just caring for everybody. She may be the most normal person in the game because this decision is accurate.

 

I mean, in her place, I would have clearly done the same. She just learned that her "mother/model" is dying so she is clearly proposing that we get the machine another way. I mean, ok, it's important to save the kids but do we have to endanger someone else life ? She is stating that Kiki is too proud to refuse the battle so she makes the decision herself. I'm not saying she's right but I don't think the MC is right either by taking this risk. Victoria must be losing it at this moment because she is submitted to an atrocious dilemma. My point is that there are no good solution that can be found at this moment.

 

One other thing I'd like to mention is that it's not a Victoria specific trait. Considering the Reborn cast, if any character would have endangered by the MC actions, other close characters would have been there to stop us. Just imagine the situation if it would have been one of the Belrose siblings instead of Kiki.

 

I find the pre-Shelly battle more arguable. At this moment, Shelly has recovered and is stating that she has to be strong for Heather. But Victoria thinks that she's just pretending. Debatable. But the stakes are far from being the same.

[ZEL]

32 minutes ago, Teto said:

I find the pre-Shelly battle more arguable. At this moment, Shelly has recovered and is stating that she has to be strong for Heather. But Victoria thinks that she's just pretending. Debatable.

I mean, even if Shelly was one hundred percent serious about being okay enough to battle us, it's pretty easy to side with Victoria here IMO.
Shelly is like, 12. She just saw the dead body of her best friend's father splattered all over the ground next to her gym. Any kid her age having to be witness to a suicide is terrible as is, but the double wham of having it happen with someone she actually knows? If I were Victoria, I wouldn't have believed her either.

I always thought of battling Shelly as being simultaneously the best thing we could do at the time, and pretty unfair.
She could probably really use a distraction at the time, and battling us may just have helped her pull her mind away from what happened earlier. But I also believe that in-story, it made the battle easier for the MC since she was still too shaken to give it her all. So I guess it was, as Fern said, a free badge.
(Now, obviously, in-game that's a different matter, haha.)

Never understood people's hatred for Victoria tbh. Oh no, we have to battle! In a Pokémon game!
I actually like her character arc, which is largely about her struggle to balance her caring, emotional side and the side of her that wants to step into the footsteps of "we must not let our inner turmoil complicate outside affairs" Kiki, and having to learn not to lose sight of the forest between all the trees.

I always thought it was touching how she just cares about everyone.
Like Feng Lei already said, Cain roadblocks us just as much, but I rarely see people giving him anywhere as much grief for the whole Wasteland key chase as for Victoria.

[Wolfox]

7 minutes ago, ZEL said:

I mean, even if Shelly was one hundred percent serious about being okay enough to battle us, it's pretty easy to side with Victoria here IMO.
Shelly is like, 12. She just saw the dead body of her best friend's father splattered all over the ground next to her gym. Any kid her age having to be witness to a suicide is terrible as is, but the double wham of having it happen with someone she actually knows? If I were Victoria, I wouldn't have believed her either.

I always thought of battling Shelly as being simultaneously the best thing we could do at the time, and pretty unfair.
She could probably really use a distraction at the time, and battling us may just have helped her pull her mind away from what happened earlier. But I also believe that in-story, it made the battle easier for the MC since she was still too shaken to give it her all. So I guess it was, as Fern said, a free badge.
(Now, obviously, in-game that's a different matter, haha.)

Never understood people's hatred for Victoria tbh. Oh no, we have to battle! In a Pokémon game!
I actually like her character arc, which is largely about her struggle to balance her caring, emotional side and the side of her that wants to step into the footsteps of "we must not let our inner turmoil complicate outside affairs" Kiki, and having to learn not to lose sight of the forest between all the trees.

I always thought it was touching how she just cares about everyone.
Like Feng Lei already said, Cain roadblocks us just as much, but I rarely see people giving him anywhere as much grief for the whole Wasteland key chase as for Victoria.

agreed. nothing more to say here on my end, you summed it all up

[Dreamy]

6 minutes ago, ZEL said:

I mean, even if Shelly was one hundred percent serious about being okay enough to battle us, it's pretty easy to side with Victoria here IMO.
Shelly is like, 12. She just saw the dead body of her best friend's father splattered all over the ground next to her gym. Any kid her age having to be witness to a suicide is terrible as is, but the double wham of having it happen with someone she actually knows? If I were Victoria, I wouldn't have believed her either.

I always thought of battling Shelly as being simultaneously the best thing we could do at the time, and pretty unfair.
She could probably really use a distraction at the time, and battling us may just have helped her pull her mind away from what happened earlier. But I also believe that in-story, it made the battle easier for the MC since she was still too shaken to give it her all. So I guess it was, as Fern said, a free badge.
(Now, obviously, in-game that's a different matter, haha.)

Never understood people's hatred for Victoria tbh. Oh no, we have to battle! In a Pokémon game!
I actually like her character arc, which is largely about her struggle to balance her caring, emotional side and the side of her that wants to step into the footsteps of "we must not let our inner turmoil complicate outside affairs" Kiki, and having to learn not to lose sight of the forest between all the trees.

I always thought it was touching how she just cares about everyone.
Like Feng Lei already said, Cain roadblocks us just as much, but I rarely see people giving him anywhere as much grief for the whole Wasteland key chase as for Victoria.

What makes the wasteland key thing annoying for me is that it would take literally 2 seconds to hand it over. if he actually had to go and get it from somewhere first, then it would be much more reasonable

[ZEL]

1 minute ago, DreamblitzX said:

What makes the wasteland key thing annoying for me is that it would take literally 2 seconds to hand it over. if he actually had to go and get it from somewhere first, then it would be much more reasonable

From what I understood, Cain was just this uncomfortable with us meeting his family. I can see how he would be hesitant for us to talk to the people he ran away from. They might tell us things about him that he hasn't been willing to disclose yet, and he probably also just doesn't want his newfound friend to be dragged into his family drama

It's still pretty frustrating considering he knows we need that badge to help the very kids he's shown so much concern for, but I do see motivation for why he would want to drag it out to see if we can find another way to solve the problem.

[wcv]

3 hours ago, ZEL said:

It's still pretty frustrating considering he knows we need that badge to help the very kids he's shown so much concern for, but I do see motivation for why he would want to drag it out to see if we can find another way to solve the problem.

Ah, but we DON'T need that badge (I mean we do, but that's due to game mechanics rather than logic). We need Strength, which he can use. In theory it doesn't actually have to be us that moves the boulder, it can be anyone, we just need to take advantage of it.

[Feng Lei]

Shhh, wcv. No. Don't speak of that. Only YOU, the main character, can move boulders! *insert Smokey the Bear Picture*

 

And I find it odd that Cain, considering all that he's comfortable with, is so hesitant for us to meet his family. His mom tries to interact with us as formally as possible given the circumstances, and his sister has her own problems. We get very little out any of the three.

Spoiler

It is not until the Abyss that we get the bigger picture.

 

Also, I wonder, is perhaps Aya in the Abyss too? Perhaps she is having a nightmare and winds up in he Starry Divide?