Battle items axed? Magnemite axed?

[Guest Relinquished]

Shivers...

 

What battle items got axed? And is magnemite unobtainable, until episode 19???

[ShadowStar]

I'm pretty sure that Battle Items pertain to Items such as X Attack and whatnot.

My guess is that Magnemite will be found inside of the Yureyu Generator Room and that the Yureyu Key will be placed back at the Wasteland Wall.

[Anstane]

In both cases, my guess is that they are not getting axed so much as they are getting delayed. Magnemite, as ShadowStar explained. X items, probably getting moved to a higher floor in the department store because they give +2 to a stat now.

[Guest Relinquished]

Phewww... Thanks guys, i almost got a heart attack on this one; damn! Held battle items is what i hunt, from as early as right after getting my starter, in this game; i was afraid, those were going to be delayed or axed! 

 

If it is to make fights more difficult, i am all for it! Besides, never did i use a single X-item, throughout my entire Reborn experience!

 

Magnemite, though, is useful for magnet pull... Well, Nosepass will have to do or else, Geodude Alola.

[DemICE]

I totally agree with these changes. Now if generator room becomes accessible like before, probopass will finally see some love

[CodeCass]

So this will be the first time I've kept a save going through a new episode. When it says "Magnemite axed", will that effect the Magneton I already have in my party? 

[Guest Relinquished]

1 hour ago, CodeCass said:

So this will be the first time I've kept a save going through a new episode. When it says "Magnemite axed", will that effect the Magnezon I already have in my party? 

No, everything you already got inside a present save-file, are kept intact. Changes are in availability at which point in the game and for new game runs. Or simply, Magnemite encounter will be pushed back later in the game, for fresh starters of episode 18.

 

I got scared, because in previous episodes, the term "axed", meant removing a pokemon completely for 1 or more episodes, then re-introducing it inside a later one (like gastly and magikarp, for example).

[CaptainMetal]

5 hours ago, GS BALL said:

Shivers...

 

What battle items got axed? And is magnemite unobtainable, until episode 19???

Where did you get that info? I've not seen anything like that in the dev block or anything.

[Paperblade]

I hope Magnemite is only being pushed back to around Luna; it offers good role compression but it's not broken (unlike Stufful/Bunnelby/Trapinch) and isn't a huge fan of the Fighting->Fire->Ground gym train. Plus, this is around when you start getting other really good Steels through non-mystery egg RNG means.

 

X-items are dumb and I'm glad to see them gone. Moxie Mightyena sweeping Shade because a single X Speed makes it faster than everything he has is a crime

1 hour ago, CaptainMetal said:

Where did you get that info? I've not seen anything like that in the dev block or anything.

"battle items axed, magnemite axed, see you next week" from today's dev blog

 

[Swampellow]

2 hours ago, Paperblade said:

I hope Magnemite is only being pushed back to around Luna; it offers good role compression but it's not broken (unlike Stufful/Bunnelby/Trapinch) and isn't a huge fan of the Fighting->Fire->Ground gym train. Plus, this is around when you start getting other really good Steels through non-mystery egg RNG means.

 

X-items are dumb and I'm glad to see them gone. Moxie Mightyena sweeping Shade because a single X Speed makes it faster than everything he has is a crime

"battle items axed, magnemite axed, see you next week" from today's dev blog

 

It's less that there are other Steels, it's more that magneton/magnezone literally eclipses every other electric type in the game, with the next closest being ampharos. Literally no point in using anything else .

[Genderist]

Magne-evolutions are pretty much unbeatable in Factory Field arenas, they get both their STAB moves significantly boosted in the Field, regardless of whether or not it is activated. Factory Fields also happen to pop up most often in the game, especially when you're fighting Team meteor. Not to mention many of those are double battles where your Discharge can hit both opponents. Taking all of that into account, and the fact that you can currently catch Magnemite in the ONLY Gym that uses the factory field and subsequently shit on Shade's day using that very Magnemite, it only makes sense that they would bump him up to a much later catch.

 

2 hours ago, Swampellow said:

It's less that there are other Steels, it's more that magneton/magnezone literally eclipses every other electric type in the game, with the next closest being ampharos. Literally no point in using anything else .

Uh, considering you can't get Mega Ampharos till pretty much the end of Episode 17, i'm assuming you mean regular Ampharos. In which case, the list of "next closest" is kinda damn long.

 

Vikavolt, Eelektross, Alolan Golem, Rotom-W, Jolteon and Galvantula are all pokemon you should CERTAINLY consider over damn Ampharos at any given situation. In fact, some of these pokemon may prove more valuable than Magnezone under differing circumstances.

Jolteon is fast as heck and you can get it much earlier than Magnezone, meaning it easily compensates for the meager 5 base SpA Magneton has on it. Eelektross, for all intents and purposes has no weaknesses, is versatile as heck and provides your team with a painfully important ground immunity. Rotom-W kinda does the same things but better. Alolan Golem packs some of the most powerful hits in the entire game. And Galvantula is the premier sticky web setter, up there with Araquanid. So there is no way in hell Magnemite is getting gibbed JUST because it's a good electric type.

[Swampellow]

1 hour ago, Genderist said:

 

Vikavolt, Eelektross, Alolan Golem, Rotom-W, Jolteon and Galvantula are all pokemon you should CERTAINLY consider over damn Ampharos at any given situation. In fact, some of these pokemon may prove more valuable than Magnezone under differing circumstances.

Jolteon is fast as heck and you can get it much earlier than Magnezone, meaning it easily compensates for the meager 10 base SpA Magneton has on it. Eelektross, for all intents and purposes has no weaknesses, is versatile as heck and provides your team with a painfully important ground immunity. Rotom-W kinda does the same things but better. Alolan Golem packs some of the most powerful hits in the entire game. And Galvantula is the premier sticky web setter, up there with Araquanid. So there is no way in hell Magnemite is getting gibbed JUST because it's a good electric type.

You can't get Vikavolt until post restoration. Rotom-W is also very late in the game in comparison (to Magnemite/ton), you don't get it until Ametrine at the least. Galvantula is a 50-50 chance at the beginning, otherwise its late. Alolem is decent but not super bulky. Jolteon is later than Magneton and Ampharos and not nearly as bulky, and doesn't learn much outside of Electric moves, while Magnet has powerful Steel STAB via level. Eel is decent sure with its versatility and you do technically get it early, but you don't even get it to its 2nd form until level 39 (so you are stuck with Tynamo, which is useless, for over 20 levels), which as after when you get Ampharos.  I said Ampharos is the next closest because you can get it quite early, is bulky, has good Spatk, learns more than just electric moves via level up, and can cheese almost as much as Magneton/zone if you get Electric terrain on it as the egg move from the event (because terrain moves are OP). 

 

Magnemite is by far the best electric type in the game, and much better than a lot of the other steel types available too. It's important to remember that Magneton was designed to be a final evolution originally, and it's stats and movepool support that. Its overall just an OP pokemon in Reborn, especially at the point in which you can get it currently. Even if other electric types may be more valuable under some specific circumstances, Magneton/zone is more valuable in almost every other circumstance in the game. 

[GGLL]

While I understand the removal of battle items to some extent, I personally don't get why magnemite has to be moved. Magneton and Magnezone are too frail in the special defensive side and too slow to do anything beyond firing off one or two attacks before going down. Even when Magnezone was available earlier, it never felt overwhelming in comparison to other electric types, unless you really need an electric type with the ability sturdy. It's not like Magnezone being moved will make something such as Probopass better, when you can get Aggron (who also has a mega) or Bastiodon at around the same time, at least currently. The bosses themselves don't even struggle with it, even Serra can eventually wear it down because it's special defense is low, and trainer grunts aren't really a challenge themselves, so the point about the factory field in my opinion is moot. It is also outclassed by other steel types, like Metagross. There wasn't any reason for it to be moved so far behind anyway, much less be axed or moved even further, at least from what I see.

[Trufa]

Is Raichu that bad? You get it before Florinia, not so helpful against her, but can be helpful through the game. Why isn't there love for the electric rat?

[Paperblade]

5 minutes ago, Trufa said:

Is Raichu that bad? You get it before Florinia, not so helpful against her, but can be helpful through the game. Why isn't there love for the electric rat?

Alolachu is okay, especially with support for it since Pichu can come with Nasty Plot and STAB Psychic is great to have, but it's really frail and its 95 special attack starts to rear its head as the game goes on. Emolga is another Electric type that makes for good filler, Acrobatics is an amazing move for that point in the game and Nuzzle+Electro Ball are also awesome.

 

2 hours ago, Swampellow said:

It's less that there are other Steels, it's more that magneton/magnezone literally eclipses every other electric type in the game, with the next closest being ampharos. Literally no point in using anything else .

I mentioned Steels because there are actually a good amount of strong Steel types, they're just all really late. Making Magnemite's availability closer to them makes it more of a choice in what you want to use between Steel types, since stuff like Lucario, Bisharp, Excadrill, Aggron, Metagross, Durant, or Escavalier all have their merits that aren't just "Well, it's faster than Magnemite but loses out in every other aspect." The issue is most Electric types are just kinda bad, unless Magnemite is delayed until E18 content when we get Mega Amph and Megamane that won't really change so I'd just end up not using an Electric type at all. They're just too frail and most of them lack the power or coverage to contribute outside of KOing things weak to their type. On top of that, the Magnet is one of the latest type boosting items accessible (ties with Pixie Plate, only Dragon Fang is later), so Electric types in general are at a disadvantage for a big portion of the game unless you're lucky enough to get a Zap Plate from mining.

 

Galv is alright, Amph is alright, Rotom is good but incredibly late, Vikavolt and Electivire's evolutions are unnecessarily late.

 

@GGLL What makes Mag so good is that even though it won't sweep a fight like Blaziken or Flygon, it will always contribute in some matter because of Sturdy (except for like one fight vs. a mon that ignores it). Even if that's just trading 1 for 1 with something it can nuke, paralyzing something like Mewtwo or Arceus, or laying down Electric Terrain to get rid of insane field effects for several turns.

[GGLL]

21 minutes ago, Paperblade said:

What makes Mag so good is that even though it won't sweep a fight like Blaziken or Flygon, it will always contribute in some matter because of Sturdy (except for like one fight vs. a mon that ignores it). Even if that's just trading 1 for 1 with something it can nuke, paralyzing something like Mewtwo or Arceus, or laying down Electric Terrain to get rid of insane field effects for several turns.

If the reason for moving Magnezone is because of sturdy, then doesn't that make it a one trick pony ? Those roles can also be fulfilled by other pokemon far more successfully (Perish song Prankster Murkrow for over-levelled bosses, trading a one-for-one with Destiny Bond Gengar or Mismagius, Prankster users for spreading status aliments and terrains). You could argue that Magnezone can do all of that to some extent by itself, but not only are they not  powerful enough for Magnezone to be axed, it's not even the only pokemon that can do this things, since Ampharos can also change the field, paralyze a foe, trade one-for-one against a pokemon that it has a type advantage over, yet, even with the mega evolution, it is simply not good enough to warrant a ban/be moved away. It also evolves early, before you even get Magnemite, and it doesn't need an ability to survive more than two hits, unless we talk about way later in the game where the damage output is higher than it can handle, by which point, you can get other electric types like Galvantula. Magneton, specifically, also has a suprising amount of dificulty against even foes that it has an advantage over, unless they only carry not very effective attacks, since even resisted special attacks do a good amount of damage, break sturdy,  leave you in a position where you have to use it more strategically if you want to take down a threat that it would otherwise should have been able to beat by its typing alone and it may also not do enough damage itself. Magnezone also has similiar struggles, though to a much lesser extent. It does do better than others (theoretically) against pokemon that it is weak to or the over-levelled bosses in comparison to the other electric types, but that applies to (nearly) all pokemon with the ability sturdy (in comparison to other pokemon of their typing), such as Aggron and Sawk. I don't think they should also be axed, but I don't think that Magnezone, or at least Magneton, have anything that makes them too much better than them, either.   

 Sorry for the long reply.

[Genderist]

9 hours ago, Swampellow said:

You can't get Vikavolt until post restoration. Rotom-W is also very late in the game in comparison (to Magnemite/ton), you don't get it until Ametrine at the least

You get Rotom and Vikavolt at the same time you can get Magnezone, and i think we can agree both are as good as Magnezone. Zone, Rotom and Vika each have their own advantage, allowing you to choose depending on what your team needs at that point.

 

9 hours ago, Swampellow said:

Alolem is decent but not super bulky.

Alolem outclasses Magneton in literally every way. Magnezone only serves to level the playing field after the Yureyu key sidequest.

9 hours ago, Swampellow said:

Jolteon is later than Magneton and Ampharos and not nearly as bulky,

Whatever Jolteon lacks in bulk, it more than compensates for in speed. And since that's around the same time you find a life orb, getting a fast and hard hitting electric type certainly outweighs the benefits of a blubbery giraffe thing. Granted i'd never recommend Jolteon over Magneton, that was more an alternative to Ampharos.

 

9 hours ago, Swampellow said:

but you don't even get it to its 2nd form until level 39

IIRC, the level cap gets raised to 40 either prior to fighting shade or post Shade. Not long after that, Eelektrik learns Tbolt and you get your first Thunderstone. So you can get an Eelektross around the same time you get a Magnemite.

 

9 hours ago, Swampellow said:

 I said Ampharos is the next closest because you can get it quite early

Ampharos is an OK electric type, and as such is the earliest one you can get. If that's your pitch, then just get the Emolga as mentioned by @Paperblade Acrobatics hurts at that stage of the game, and you get your electric filler that has a fast 100% paralysis and can give you light screen.

 

As for the last part, i honestly have nothing to say because most, if not all of that, is just your bias.  Case and point, most 1st stage Fully Evolved pokes from Gen 1 are so garbage that they have either been given alternate forms, broken abilities, new evolutions or have been left to rot in obscurity. Magneton only being one such example of a pokemon that NEEDED a new evolution to keep up with the power creep.

[CaptainMetal]

18 hours ago, Paperblade said:

"battle items axed, magnemite axed, see you next week" from today's dev blog

 

Interesting, for me the last post in the dev blog is from May 3, or do you mean the little update comments in the E18 Scoreboard?

[Maqqy]

23 hours ago, ShadowStar said:

I'm pretty sure that Battle Items pertain to Items such as X Attack and whatnot.

My guess is that Magnemite will be found inside of the Yureyu Generator Room and that the Yureyu Key will be placed back at the Wasteland Wall.

 

So that means Rotom is now made available at that time? Hmmmmmmm seems like a good change.

[Paperblade]

2 hours ago, CaptainMetal said:

Interesting, for me the last post in the dev blog is from May 3, or do you mean the little update comments in the E18 Scoreboard?

Yeah, the e18 scoreboard. It got updated again this morning

 

@GGLL Mag's not really a one trick pony, it has good offense and its utility moves are really useful. Sturdy just guarantees it will always be able to utilize at least one of them, with the exception of Charlotte since it's the combination of doubles vs. fast pokemon who have a type advantage over it. A one trick pony to me is something more like Meowstic-M who will just suicide lead by throwing up screens or changing the terrain/weather then fainting.

 

You might be right about alolem being nearly as good (I haven't seriously attempted to use it, I used Graveller as filler once to just selfdestruct on things)--it has about the same power as Magneton and Thunderpunch + Rock Blast->Stone Edge are good moves. The main downside is it's a lot slower (Magneton isn't fast but it will outspeed some stuff especially from random trainers, while Golem is struggling down at 45 base Speed) so it's a lot more reliant on Sturdy, secondarily being it doesn't really have utility moves--it has Stealth Rock but I've never found hazards very useful in single player except to break sashes/sturdy since the AI doesn't switch much. But to compensate for that it actually gets a decent suite of other attacking options (Explosion, Heavy Slam, Brick Break, +Superpower/Fire Punch tutors in E18). When E18 hits I'll have to give it a serious shot.

[Guest Relinquished]

16 hours ago, Trufa said:

Is Raichu that bad? You get it before Florinia, not so helpful against her, but can be helpful through the game. Why isn't there love for the electric rat?

I like Alola Raichu. In my new ep18 fresh run, i am going to main one. It is pretty decent, although nothing spectacular. Can learn Nasty Plot as a Pichu and early Thunderbolt/Psychic, through move relearner. I like that mouse!

[Trufa]

@GS BALL Maybe it's because I prefer fast mons, but I think Nasty Plot + Thunderbolt is better than 130  Sp. Attack + Discharge, unless you have a trick room team.