Sentient Bowtie Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 ”I see. I don’t know what the war was like, and I don’t know exactly what the Imperials did, or what people say you did, to make you so hated. But I still think you don’t deserve death for this. It wouldn’t be right to punish you for trying to survive.” She frowns, thinking on what the knight had said. ”...even for a prison, that place doesn’t exactly sound like it’s full of nice people. ‘The animals received better treatment’? Did they really?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElfCollaborator Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 "I don't feel that letting them go unpuished for their crime would serve justice. What happened to them was unfair, but it gives them no right to do injustices unto others." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentient Bowtie Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 “It isn’t, but they had no other choice. Are we supposed to punish them for being stuck in a corner?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustytengo Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Kris having kept quiet for the most part since she really didn't care what happened to this people finally perked up when Dulci spoke "Everyone has a choice. They chose to attack a village instead of trying to talk or anything else. They chose to follow their leaders orders without questioning them. They chose to do the wrong thing and they shouldn't get away with that." Kris said sounding a little annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentient Bowtie Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 “They were going to die otherwise. A choice between killing for supplies and death isn’t a choice, it’s an ultimatum. Especially when you don’t actually know if anyone is going to help you if you ask.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Miner Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Ceridwen had remained silent for most of the conversation, looking down at the ground, but with arguments in favor of letting go being put forward she decided to speak up -- well, more like shout. "We shouldn't let them go!" Ceridwen looked down, surprised by the intensity of her own outburst, and then looked down. "I-- I saw the fighting at the village, and I went off to go help. I saw that the knights were attacking and wounding the Warrior's Village's men, and... I, I came in, shouting, attacking, to try to stop them, maybe. Enough to make Johanna reprimand me for charging in." "But... they didn't. They didn't even try to fight back against us, or flee, or surrender, or try to talk anything out, or-- or anything. They just kept on going trying to kill the people in front of them. And it's not like they-- tried to sneak in, or something. They had a bunch of heavily armed and armored people come to the front gate, to try to kill everyone in their way, and according to what they were saying to each other, the general told them to "secure the village"." Ceridwen let out a shaky sigh. "And they weren't trying to bull their way forward, either. They-- they killed two people, even as I tried to stop them. I watched them do it, they just ignored me so they could kill people. And when they'd killed those two, they, they teamed up on the person they'd already been wounding -- one of them even killed themselves just trying to get him dead. They only even bothered attacking Johanna and I when I dropped down between them on the third person they wanted to kill." "Then the last one hurt Johanna rather than me when we were both going after him because he could hurt her. And they did still kill those two others, too... I was just staring at the second person, afterwards. The-- the one they just... ignored me to kill. I..." Ceridwen fell silent for a moment, getting choked up, before some more fire entered her, albeit with a clearly upset air. "When it became clear that they couldn't take over the village, and that's what they were trying to do, they decided to die in a way that would let them kill and hurt as many people as they could! Maybe-- maybe it was out of some... desire for an honorable death or something, but they killed two people because they could, ganged up on someone else they thought they could and almost killed him!" "I... we shouldn't just kill them. That's... I don't think that's right either. But... we shouldn't let them go. Definitely not. I, um, I'm just, I've never really been into much of Caliss, so I-- I couldn't say where to put them, or anything else. But... they shouldn't just get rewarded for doing what they did." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentient Bowtie Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 “I didn’t realize any of that. I guess their corner was bigger than I thought... So much for an ‘ultimatum.’” Dulcie looks ruefully at the prisoners in front of them. “Back to prison, then. But I still don’t think we should kill them. It’s too...” She pauses, looking for the right word, but can’t seem to find it. “...It’s just not right. Killing someone in combat is different than... this. I don’t like the thought of it.” “...Maybe we should ask the villagers what they want to do.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevaleresse Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 "If what they say about that prison is true, it'd be more merciful to kill them now. I've swung an axe before, I'll do it myself if nobody else can stomach it." She didn't exactly revel in the thought. . . but someone had to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurorix Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Moral dilemmas was not something Argos thought he'd have to be dealing with when he wanted to join the Allied guard. The lad a a whirlpool of emotions swirling around inside him and he doesn't know what to do. I suppose the only thing he can do is to just let it all out. "Look everyone, I honestly am really conflicted about this. I-.... I want to let them go. My heart is telling me they all deserve a second chance. Sure they might have fought on the loosing side of war but when I put myself in their shoes I wouldn't want to be jailed for fighting in the Allied Guard if goddess forbid we are defeated. They were desperate... and... I get a bit angry when I don't eat for a long time during the day so I can't imagine what it feels like to be starving. I probably wouldn't be able to think straight, I knew there was food or water somewhere of course I'd try my best to get it, I'd be dead either way. S-so a lot of their choices would make sense if they were that desperate even blinding rushing in and... killing people like Ceridwen said. Please don't hate me for saying this, but I really feel we should let them go..." He pauses for a bit then continues, "But then I start thinking more about it and my mind keeps telling me they should pay for what they did to this town. Their allies killed two innocents so they should be thrown back into jail right? But they weren't the ones swinging theirs weapons at them. If we were ordered to do something similar and we did what we were ordered, would we get thrown in jail? If we were to reject what would the leaders say too? I doubt they just let us refuse to go do it without punishment. So maybe it was just a loose-loose scenario. Plus what are we gonna tell everyone when we get back? Are we gonna tell them some fled? Lie and say we killed them and if we bring them back aren't they just gonna die in prison anyways? When I keep thinking through this my mind just goes in circles. I just don't know what to do... I don't... It was so easy for me fight others during battle because I was defending someone else... but now I just can't imagine killing these guys... Who am I protecting by killing them when they've given up?" Argos placed both his hands on his forehead, grasping his headband. He head shook lightly back and forth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Miner Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 "...if we were ordered to kill people who hadn't done anything to anyone, I-- I don't-- I don't think I'd do it. Not that. I watched them do it. I watched them, and I tried to stop them, I tried as hard as I possibly could, I, I-- they just kept killing, even in their dying moments, rather than stop. And I wouldn't ever do that, even if I were in their place. Especially after seeing that." Ceridwen steeled her expression a bit, though a downward quaver at the edges of her mouth betrayed her continued distress. "And I'm sure that they'd tell me that I don't know what it's like to be as desperate as them, and that I don't understand what the place they come from is like, and... they're probably right. But these four are the ones here to talk, and that's why you can hear that argument at all. The knights who attacked the Warriors' Village --and that's what they are, an armored shock group, not some sort of random wild attack, they thought that much out-- aren't here, they died killing. And of course the two people they killed aren't here, either. We can't just brush that aside. Those two people were trying to survive and protect each other every bit as much as the escaped prisoners." "We can't just act like that didn't happen, or that it's something to easily forgive. We can't just give them what they want because they came out here to sack the village and helped with the assault that was meant to kill all of those defenders. Even if we shouldn't kill them, because killing people who have surrendered is... is callous, and a betrayal... we can't just reward it. We can't. We can't!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustytengo Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 "No, we can't. They did what they knew was wrong with the intent to harm people. I could feel their weapons crying at the thought of being used as tools for the slaughter of innocents. So no matter what they should get punished in some way and like Rhian I will end them if that's the punishment decided for them." Kirs said in a matter of fact tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~ Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 "Yup. Bad people." Naomi nodded in agreement with Rhian and Kris. "You know, if I do it right my magic doesn't leave behind even bones. Everyone has a choice, people are free to do as they wish and not even the law can stop them. These guys were locked up and they made it out because they wanted right? They even had the freedom to choose that! It's just a shame that humans always end up making the wrong choices in the end. So yeah, my magic doesn't leave even a single speck behind just say the word and I'll start charging. It's probably not even painful I think." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurorix Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 "You see, I agree with everything you say Ceridwen but I just can't accept it. It would be just to kill them or send them back to prison, I'm not saying it isn't. However, was it just for them to be imprisoned for fighting on the wrong side? Was it just for their lives to be thrown away in a jail cell for fighting under an opposing banner? They probably have family and loved ones who they just want to see again but we deny them any chance because of the one choice they made that just so happened to be the wrong one. If that's just please explain to me why but there's no way in hell that it's right." He loosens his grip on his headband, his mind finally started to make sense of what's his issue. The sureness in his voice returned as well as his conviction. "What I'm trying trying to say is there's a difference between doing something for justice and doing something thats right. Our justice demands we bring them back into jail and on the other side their justice demands that they can be free from their unfair imprisonment. How many years do you think they were stuck in there? I bet from their point of view, justice demands even more so for their suffering. If I was to keep someone imprisoned in my basement they'd have my head for sure. So then who's justice is right? Are either of them right? If I loved our justice so much I should've off'd myself a long time ago since apparently my existence is an injustice. However, that isn't happening anytime time soon.. So is just to let them go? Absolutely not. Is it right? Hell if I know but I won't blindly follow and become a dog to their justice. I've decided to fight for what I believe is right and at this moment I don't feel it's right to send them back to their deaths." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Miner Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Ceridwen stuck a lock of her hair in her mouth for a moment, chewing on it as she became visibly more distressed, but it dropped out of her mouth as she responded with... a lot of fire, this time. "They? They? They? Who the-- who the hell is they?! "Their justice", who are you talking about? Is it the Warrior's Village? Are you saying that the attack on them, those people, those people right over there," Ceridwen pointed an arm emphatically in the direction of the village, "is justified because these guys were put in jail once? Look, I-- I never left Goya and the Stronghold much, so I don't know a whole ton about Caliss, but it seems pretty unlikely to me that the people in that village were the ones to put them in jail. Some of those people looked my age, Argos! So why is it fine that they get attacked, or that their heads are had? Why is that okay?!" Ceridwen let out a long breath. "I, I don't like yelling, but-- but I don't understand how those villagers couldn't matter to you! It's like they're a footnote! Is it that you never really saw the fight with the village, or saw those villagers die? Because I-- I did, and I'm not going to just forget it! Maybe it wasn't right that they were in prison in the first place, or maybe it was, I, I really couldn't say, but that doesn't mean that the people this attack killed just didn't exist, it doesn't make it right all of a sudden that their deaths happened. They're not just some... faceless mass, I saw! They're just not in front of you right now because they're dead, or tending to their wounded!" Ceridwen popped the lock of her hair back into her mouth and shook her head a couple of times, trying to calm down, with only partial success. "Maybe there's some other prison that isn't Soniere, I don't know, Caliss is big, there probably isn't just one prison in it! But you can't just act like it's fine and dandy that those villagers died defending themselves just because they live in Caliss, Argos! That's what I care about!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurorix Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 "How exactly are they responsible for the deaths of the villagers here? Is it guilty by association? If I were to kill an innocent villager right now would all of you go to jail with me? If we were ordered to kill these villagers yet some of us refused, would those who refused also be guilty of that crime as well or would they be guilty of disobeying a commanding officer? This talk of them killing the villagers is nonsense when there is none of the village blood on their hands! The blame rest with the officer that gave the orders, who's now lying dead in the dirt mind you. THAT'S who should be imprisoned, not his subordinates. You can't imprison a dead man though so now you place his sentence onto these people as a way ease your anger but that isn't helping anyone. You are placing the blame of others, who they had no control over, onto them and THAT'S justice? This is only making their living more hellish than it's already been. I wouldn't stand to see everyone here sent to jail for not abiding by malicious orders, so why would I let it happen to these folks?" Argos kept his stance firm and didn't yield. He crossed his arms glaring at the red head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElfCollaborator Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Suddenly, Michi approaches behind Ceridwen and Argos. Their facial expression is, obviously, hidden. Their voice is relatively calm, but given their relatively imposing presence, that isn't exacty reassuring. "No control? You give them too little credit. They aren't mindless fools, that we can see clearly enough. They understand honor, they understand right and wrong, and they understand orders. I don't begrudge them for fighting their war, I begrudge them for dragging those who had nothing to do with it into their misery. If I, or Johanna, told you to massacre innocent children because we were starving and they had food, would you do it, knowing it was wrong? Would you do it because they told you to? Would you not even begin to question your orders? He ordered them to, yes, but they did it. They could have run, they could have stood their ground and maintained their honor, but instead, they went along with what they were told to do because they were told to do it. You speak as if justice and doing what is right are two different things. I feel they are not; people choose to believe they are because it helps them sleep at night to believe that justice is simply to follow the laws with no concern as to what the spirit of them actually means. If you genuinely believe that they didn't understand that when they chose to go along with what is being done here, you give them too little credit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Miner Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 “This wasn’t just some... random thing, Argos! It’s not like these four didn’t have anything to do with it! They were all here and they were arranged! These four were just standing by and guarding the general while he oversaw the whole thing! It’s not like they just happened to be here and he suddenly decided to send those knights off to attack, you heard them, this was something that they were all here to do, it was an operation to “secure” the village! They were even talking about his decision, like, a few minutes ago!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevaleresse Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 "Ceridwen is right. They made the decision a long time ago. All of this is planned; none of these people swung the weapons, but they've basically admitted they would have if they'd been standing a couple dozen feet away from where they were. We can't just let them go. I know you probably want to be all kind and merciful like some knight out of the stories but real life doesn't work that way." The dragon knight was making an excellent point, and as much as she didn't want to admit it, it had solidified her own thoughts on the matter. "Bandit tells you he won't do it again, and as soon as you turn around he'll be back to taking what he can. Or maybe he doesn't - but that doesn't bring back the people that died to the ones that did. And from what this looked like? It'll happen again. Some other fossil arranges a jail break and they're back to "foraging" for survival." Forage - a polite term for the sort of organized banditry an army on the move in hostile territory did to keep supplies up. "So, to me, there's just one more question." She turned to the group of prisoners. "Do you wanna drag this on, or would you rather we just shorten you all now and end your suffering?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokubiraijuu Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 The former prisoners look to one another, but an air of calm blankets their expressions and body language. The mage turns to Rhian with a placid face. "We would all prefer to die here. We'll keep striving for life as long as we draw breath." The knight pushes himself to his feet and stretches with a loud exhale. "Yep, let's do it." Behind them, the male cleric grits his teeth, looking to the young girl and making a few gesticulations with his hands. She looks at them, then up at him with a wide-eyed look before responding with a few hand motions of her own. Heaviness sinks into the male cleric's eyes, and he shakes his head, gesturing again briefly. To this, she simply closes her eyes, then nods, moving to stand quietly beside him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentient Bowtie Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 A sullen look crosses Dulcie’s face, and she turns away from the rest of the Guards. If that’s what the prisoners wanted, so be it. ...Doesn’t mean she would watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Miner Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Ceridwen genuinely hadn't expected that. And she wasn't really sure how to handle it. "But--" She fell silent. Imprisoning them would be crueler, wouldn't it? "C-can we just--" But all of her own words still did hold true, didn't they? Even if that now seemed to be looming over her, in a sense. "...I think we should at least wait for Johanna to get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevaleresse Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 "What, you think I planned on grabbing your axe and swinging away right here? No, we're going to do this right." She was already mentally bracing herself for what was coming next. She had offered, after all, and she didn't know if a place like this had a headsman of its own. Plus, she'd made the decision; she ought to at least be willing to see it through personally. One thing, though, niggled at the back of her mind as she watched the group. The girl - she looked young. Too young. She returned her focus to them. "Who is she? There's no way she's a veteran, there's more to the story here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokubiraijuu Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 The hearing three look surprised at the question, and they glance at the girl, who, seeing all eyes on her, steps back behind the other cleric, a little hesitant. When he gestures to her again, though, she calms down a little, apparently having thought that they all wanted her for something. "She's... she came with us when we escaped," the mage explains. "She was a victim of Soniere too, but in a different way from the rest of us. In truth, she shouldn't have come with us. Now she's gotten tied up in the last thing she needed to get tied up in again." "I wanted to get her out of that hellhole!" the cleric cuts in, bristling. "If you'd seen the shit in the Ward— you—..." He fumbles, too angry to voice it coherently. "And she wanted to come too, anyway." At a tap on his arm, he turns back at the girl, who's giving him a quizzical look. With a sigh, he makes a few more motions tiredly. The mage continues, though the outburst seems to have made her a bit sullen: "he's the only one who can communicate with her. But, by your analysis as I've been hearing it, she's as culpable as the rest of us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevaleresse Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Rhian resisted a sigh. It was difficult again. Old loyalists trying to retake territory by turning to raiding? Yeah, that was worthy of punishment, but this girl? Lots of extenuating factors building up here. For one, she could actually accept the angle of having to do it to survive. Not to mention only being able to talk to the one, apparently. "There has to be a reason she was in there initially. You don't hear about a lot of deaf teenaged healers getting thrown in prison." She glanced back over at the mage. "She's got a lot more excuses than you lot, at least until I hear my answer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustytengo Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Kris sighed a little at Rhian's questions. "Should it really matter? She made the same choice as all the others. Just because she is different doesn't mean she is any more innocent as the rest of them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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