Team Meteor As Of EP18 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[The Swordsman]

Spoiler

 

So I've been thinking about Team Meteor's actions in this episode for awhile now but I can't think of a justified reason on how Lin would be able to create the thing Team Meteor needs out of nothing. Lin has a strong darkness theme like Luna, so her being able to pull people/pokemon out the void isn't farfetched, her controlling Gossip Gardevoir is explained via the new PULSE machines and her being underwater is explained via her apparent immortality but this doesn't make sense. If she had this power all along, why doesn't she create duplicates of the keys? She even says herself that this is something that only God (in this case Arceus) has the power to do. So do you guys have any theories? Also does anyone else find Solaris' use of the new PULSE machine undermines his sympathetic tragic villain characterization? Since the new PULSE machines get rid of a Pokemon's free will and he uses it even on his Garchomp. (who he apparently has a strong enough bond with to use it's mega form)

 

 

[Azeria]

11 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

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So I've been thinking about Team Meteor's actions in this episode for awhile now but I can't think of a justified reason on how Lin would be able to create the thing Team Meteor needs out of nothing. Lin has a strong darkness theme like Luna, so her being able to pull people/pokemon out the void isn't farfetched, her controlling Gossip Gardevoir is explained via the new PULSE machines and her being underwater is explained via her apparent immortality but this doesn't make sense. If she had this power all along, why doesn't she create duplicates of the keys? She even says herself that this is something that only God (in this case Arceus) has the power to do. So do you guys have any theories? Also does anyone else find Solaris' use of the new PULSE machine undermines his sympathetic tragic villain characterization? Since the new PULSE machines get rid of a Pokemon's free will and he uses it even on his Garchomp. (who he apparently has a strong enough bond with to use it's mega form)

 

 

Spoiler

Lin practically tells you; she's essentially a god.

 

As for the Solaris bit, he only uses it on his Garchomp. I personally interpret that in a couple of ways;

Firstly, it could mean only Garchomp trusted him enough to actually use it, hence why it's also his Mega, it's his oldest and strongest Pokemon. Another interpretation could be that as he's essentially been getting overthrown and undermined, he was only given one of the PULSE2 machines. Furthermore that also depicts just how desperate he's become, in the face of his organisation realistically having a new leader with him as nothing but a figurehead. His goals were completely different from the rest of the group and he clung to any opportunity to achieve them. Frankly I don't entirely believe the mind control aspect was used here, especially given that his Garchomp has previously followed all his commands to the letter and clearly has been with him for a very long time. That part seems much more like something up Sirius'/Lin's sleeves.

 

 

[Lord Drakyle]

19 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

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So I've been thinking about Team Meteor's actions in this episode for awhile now but I can't think of a justified reason on how Lin would be able to create the thing Team Meteor needs out of nothing. Lin has a strong darkness theme like Luna, so her being able to pull people/pokemon out the void isn't farfetched, her controlling Gossip Gardevoir is explained via the new PULSE machines and her being underwater is explained via her apparent immortality but this doesn't make sense. If she had this power all along, why doesn't she create duplicates of the keys? She even says herself that this is something that only God (in this case Arceus) has the power to do. So do you guys have any theories? Also does anyone else find Solaris' use of the new PULSE machine undermines his sympathetic tragic villain characterization? Since the new PULSE machines get rid of a Pokemon's free will and he uses it even on his Garchomp. (who he apparently has a strong enough bond with to use it's mega form)

 

 

Spoiler

If we assume Lin can make something from nothing it makes no sense, but we know that we dont know everything and she has tried to mislead before with her trying to throw a wrench between Titania and You by suggesting you are working together, what's more likely is she probably had a pokemon or something that can restore something to how it once was, so maybe a form of time travel? it's been suggested on the forums before she traveled forward in time regarding her age and Adrienn was locked in time we know that so is it possible she has some control over time to a limited degree and possibly turned back time in that specific area or for that specific thing in order to get what she needed?

 

[wcv]

27 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

If she had this power all along, why doesn't she create duplicates of the keys?

Spoiler

Could be she can't. The keys could be special, specific things she can't make more of. Alternatively, IIRC she said that what she was looking for had been there, but wasn't now (or something like that I don't remember her exact explanation), maybe she couldn't actually duplicate something, but could rather pull forward her little thing from when it was working/there. So at some point in the past there was a machine which could power the Pulse-Arc. But now its gone. So Lin pulled it out of time from when it did exist, causing it to not be there in your own time, causing her to do it in the first place. The keys are still intact however, so pulling them from history would create a paradox rather than a closed time-loop.

 

[Tacos]

Spoiler

   

Looks familiar, doesn't it?  Lin doesn't create something out of nothing if you ask me.  Agate City is essentially built atop what was once Agate Village in Orre, where the Relic Stone used to preside, which is the object Lin needed to power the ArcPulse.  If anything, there was some time distortion on Lin's behalf and she reverted time to when the Relic Stone was still there.

 

[Lord Drakyle]

Spoiler

In addition to what i already said which will make this bit make more sense: What if Lin has control over a Dialga and/or Palkia (Dialga being the more likely one if at all) this would start to explain things like her cross dimensional existance, her making things appear from nothing when it might rather just be moving something from one point in time to another and she might also have Giratina at that allowing her to access the void if all this was the case controlling Arceus with a pulse would likely give her all the materials needed to rebuild the world and control that new world in her image

 

[Tacos]

Spoiler

My current thought (and I know a few other share a similar theory as well) is that young Lin is currently in the Arc beneath Reborn City with Arceus, where she has been anointed with godly powers that she channels into the robotic vessel that is "old" Lin.  This is our explanation for basically every bullshit thing she's pulled so far, and I don't think she necessarily has any other pokemon under her control to help her with time distortion, as it's perhaps an ability granted to her by Arceus.

 

[The Swordsman]

51 minutes ago, Tacos said:

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Looks familiar, doesn't it?  Lin doesn't create something out of nothing if you ask me.  Agate City is essentially built atop what was once Agate Village in Orre, where the Relic Stone used to preside, which is the object Lin needed to power the ArcPulse.  If anything, there was some time distortion on Lin's behalf and she reverted time to when the Relic Stone was still there.

 

Spoiler

Yes it does, the only problem I have is if Agate City is the successor to Agate Villiage than the region of Reborn should have some more overt references to Orre as a part of it's history. I do believe now that the stone in Reborn is a Relic Stone though.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Lord Drakyle said:

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In addition to what i already said which will make this bit make more sense: What if Lin has control over a Dialga and/or Palkia (Dialga being the more likely one if at all) this would start to explain things like her cross dimensional existance, her making things appear from nothing when it might rather just be moving something from one point in time to another and she might also have Giratina at that allowing her to access the void if all this was the case controlling Arceus with a pulse would likely give her all the materials needed to rebuild the world and control that new world in her image

 

Spoiler

It would also make sense that Team Meteor would go after them before going attempting to control Arceus. As Cyrus did the tried something similar when he wanted to remake the world.

41 minutes ago, Tacos said:

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My current thought (and I know a few other share a similar theory as well) is that young Lin is currently in the Arc beneath Reborn City with Arceus, where she has been anointed with godly powers that she channels into the robotic vessel that is "old" Lin.  This is our explanation for basically every bullshit thing she's pulled so far, and I don't think she necessarily has any other pokemon under her control to help her with time distortion, as it's perhaps an ability granted to her by Arceus.

 

Spoiler

I don't think Arceus would approve of Lin's actions nor do I think it would be on her side.  If this was true than there would be no need to strip Arceus of it's free will.

 

 

Thank you for all the replies!

[Lord Drakyle]

47 minutes ago, Tacos said:

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Looks familiar, doesn't it?  Lin doesn't create something out of nothing if you ask me.  Agate City is essentially built atop what was once Agate Village in Orre, where the Relic Stone used to preside, which is the object Lin needed to power the ArcPulse.  If anything, there was some time distortion on Lin's behalf and she reverted time to when the Relic Stone was still there.

 

Spoiler

If Agate City is where Agate Village once was then why is there talks somewhere in the game (can't remember where might have been in downstairs Grand Hall) about rebuilding the railways eventually connecting the Orre Region to Reborn Region

 

[Tacos]

Spoiler

It seems farfetched that Arceus would approve of Lin's actions, until you consider the possibility that Arceus is an incomplete being locked away beneath a city that's forgotten its existence and trampled over the city once inhabited by its followers.  I prefer to view Arceus as a vengeful and pompous being, citing the disembodied voice in the void and the E19 teaser as his taunting us.  So, I don't think he necessarily disapproves of Lin's actions, but rather encourages them.

4 minutes ago, Lord Drakyle said:

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If Agate City is where Agate Village once was then why is there talks somewhere in the game (can't remember where might have been in downstairs Grand Hall) about rebuilding the railways eventually connecting the Orre Region to Reborn Region

  

Spoiler

Well considering Agate City is one of the easternmost locations of Reborn, if you consider the option that Agate Village lies on the border, then a railway connecting the two regions still would be necessary.  Other locations in Orre like Phenac City aren't so easily accessible, and considering Orre is a mostly desert region that's shown to require specialized motor vehicles to traverse, a rail station still seems like a perfectly valid thing for inter-region travel.

 

[Lord Drakyle]

4 minutes ago, Tacos said:

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It seems farfetched that Arceus would approve of Lin's actions, until you consider the possibility that Arceus is an incomplete being locked away beneath a city that's forgotten its existence and trampled over the city once inhabited by its followers.  I prefer to view Arceus as a vengeful and pompous being, citing the disembodied voice in the void and the E19 teaser as his taunting us.  So, I don't think he necessarily disapproves of Lin's actions, but rather encourages them.

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Well considering Agate City is one of the easternmost locations of Reborn, if you consider the option that Agate Village lies on the border, then a railway connecting the two regions still would be necessary.  Other locations in Orre like Phenac City aren't so easily accessible, and considering Orre is a mostly desert regions that's shown to require specialized motor vehicles to traverse, a rail station still seems like a perfectly valid thing for inter-region travel.

 

Spoiler

That makes sense actually, maybe even MT Battle is visible from somewhere in Reborn and at that, perhaps that locomotive train thing at the Outskirt Stand would finally see use jk but i wonder if anywhere in Orre's known places, where would they most likely have a connecting train at? my guess would be most likely Pyrite Town which would be interesting connecting place to Reborn which uses a lot of gemstone names as places since Pyrite is a Gemstone

 

[The Swordsman]

3 minutes ago, Tacos said:

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It seems farfetched that Arceus would approve of Lin's actions, until you consider the possibility that Arceus is an incomplete being locked away beneath a city that's forgotten its existence and trampled over the city once inhabited by its followers.  I prefer to view Arceus as a vengeful and pompous being, citing the disembodied voice in the void and the E19 teaser as his taunting us.  So, I don't think he necessarily disapproves of Lin's actions, but rather encourages them.

 

Spoiler

I don't prefer view Arceus in that way and from what little we have seen of it's personality in the games and spin offs it is shown to compassionate, kind, have a strong sense of justice and is only vengeful when betrayed and even then would test humans to see if there is still some good in us before deciding to wipe us out. (Pokemon Ranger series, Pokemon Adventures, Pokemon Anime) IMO that would out of character for it and kinda ruin the game for me.

 

[Commander]

Okay so I can try to explain it a little bit but there's so much info missing so I'll at least state the facts:

 

Spoiler

So here's the important things to know before even theory crafting:

 

1. Lin is a machine being controlled by something supernatural. We believe it is the young Lin of this timeline.

2. All of the events that have happened have happened once before and the timeline reset

 

There's a lot of ??? when it comes to everything that goes on and we could theorize for hours with little or no explanation. We know the Relic Stone is blessed with Celebi's Power so it very well is possible something could warp it through time since time manipulation was used on the Citadel. I don't know how much lore we'll get in that regard but something has been brought to light in this episode: everything isn't as it seems.

 

[wcv]

1 hour ago, Lord Drakyle said:

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If Agate City is where Agate Village once was then why is there talks somewhere in the game (can't remember where might have been in downstairs Grand Hall) about rebuilding the railways eventually connecting the Orre Region to Reborn Region

 

Spoiler

Could be a dual city. Say you have an Agate City in Reborn, while Agate Village is right across the border, with one being named for the other, and both having the relics in question.

 

[Azeria]

3 minutes ago, wcv said:

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Could be a dual city. Say you have an Agate City in Reborn, while Agate Village is right across the border, with one being named for the other, and both having the relics in question.

 

Spoiler

It's the same city, a girl at night in Neo Reborn City mentions it.

 

[The Swordsman]

4 minutes ago, Azeria said:

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It's the same city, a girl at night in Neo Reborn City mentions it.

 

Spoiler

So this confirms that at least some of the Reborn region is a part of Orre, interesting.

 

[wcv]

1 hour ago, Azeria said:

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It's the same city, a girl at night in Neo Reborn City mentions it.

 

Spoiler

What NPC is that?

 

[Azeria]

On 8/22/2018 at 9:27 PM, The Swordsman said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So I've been thinking about Team Meteor's actions in this episode for awhile now but I can't think of a justified reason on how Lin would be able to create the thing Team Meteor needs out of nothing. Lin has a strong darkness theme like Luna, so her being able to pull people/pokemon out the void isn't farfetched, her controlling Gossip Gardevoir is explained via the new PULSE machines and her being underwater is explained via her apparent immortality but this doesn't make sense. If she had this power all along, why doesn't she create duplicates of the keys? She even says herself that this is something that only God (in this case Arceus) has the power to do. So do you guys have any theories? Also does anyone else find Solaris' use of the new PULSE machine undermines his sympathetic tragic villain characterization? Since the new PULSE machines get rid of a Pokemon's free will and he uses it even on his Garchomp. (who he apparently has a strong enough bond with to use it's mega form)

 

 

Spoiler

Slight revival but one thing I missed out in my original response to this bit in particular;

Quote

Also does anyone else find Solaris' use of the new PULSE machine undermines his sympathetic tragic villain characterization? Since the new PULSE machines get rid of a Pokemon's free will and he uses it even on his Garchomp.

One final thing to note is that while yes the PULSE2 allows the trainer to completely remove a Pokemon's free will, there's also reason to believe that aspect of it wasn't used;

Remember that despite it being used for gameplay mechanics, Solaris' Staraptor uses Return a normal move that only reaches maximum power when the Pokemon's friendship stat is maxed out. While yes this can be refuted due to it again being a gameplay mechanic on a boss, the move has 2 alternatives in Double Edge and Frustration, hence me believing it being avocative of Garchomp's PULSE2 being it allowing it to be put onto it.

 

[kithas]

Spoiler

I kind of remember some NPC saying that Agate City was brought to the Cornelia Region from where it was originally? I think it was on the Lapis Ward but I cannot remember exactly where.

 

As for PULSE2 Garchomp, I think the controlling aspect of the PULSE could be seen like some sort of Mega-Evolution: The lore ingame for a lot of them is that the pokémon go ax-crazy when they Mega Evolve and they stop being themselves. It could be that, as they usually trust their trainer to control them while Mega-Evolution, Garchomp trust Solaris during PULSE2.

As for Arceus and Lin, we could have a tyrant god angered by the humans who builded Reborn, or a childish-mischievous god who wants to hang out with Lin because it's fun.

Or maybe Lin is actually inside the sanctum but she's only in company of the meteor/vessel, who gave her some sort of power over the robot ...

 

[Waynolt]

Spoiler

I don't think that she's a robot... I'm more and more convinced that Old!Lin is a player character.
I mean: she respawns, just like the MC.
She shuts off for days at a time in the middle of anything, just like the MC.

I think that Young!Lin became aware that she's in a videogame, and is actually playing it.
I mean, Radomus is perfectly aware to be an NPC... would it be that much of a stretch to suppose that Young!Lin knows too, and is using Arceus' power to play with us?

 

[The Swordsman]

Spoiler

That would ruin the chance of me taking the plot seriously anymore and ruin all the build up, there be no point to care about whats going on. So I hope that is not the case.

 

[kithas]

16 minutes ago, Waynolt said:

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I don't think that she's a robot... I'm more and more convinced that Old!Lin is a player character.
I mean: she respawns, just like the MC.
She shuts off for days at a time in the middle of anything, just like the MC.

I think that Young!Lin became aware that she's in a videogame, and is actually playing it.
I mean, Radomus is perfectly aware to be an NPC... would it be that much of a stretch to suppose that Young!Lin knows too, and is using Arceus' power to play with us?

 

Spoiler

I don't think so, her characterisation is too much of a villain / too edgy to be aware of the game

 

Edit: Also I hope she's not, because Radomus already did that role, and while I found it funny, they did well not having it be important to the plot.

I wouldn't rule out either Arceus or Giratina being aware (as the voice who spoke to the player at the E19 trailer), but well, they're kind of gods. (I think Giratina has something to do with Shade but that's another whole set of things)