The Last, Only, and Very Final X% Hype Thread

[Aphelli]

3 hours ago, andracass said:

i dunno what this means. the ai is less of a mess now.

I agree that it certainly made better sense in my head. 
When I think that way after modifying some code (that is, “the code is cleaner and clearer now”), there are usually a few bugs to correct afterwards. And your rework of the AI involves over a hundred times as many lines of code. So I’m worried about how much debugging and testing you’ll have to do. 
 

Or perhaps it’ll be perfectly fine. After all, you already had a “playable” AI with over 40k lines of code in the first place. 
 

 

[ShogokiX]

Straight from the Devblog:

Quote

 

Soooo.....why doesn't Nintendo stomp Game Freak and hire you guys?

 

Then again, that would lead to finally having a good official Pokémon game, with actual features that the players demanded for years.

...and we can't have that XD

[Egzample]

10 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

Straight from the Devblog:

 

Soooo.....why doesn't Nintendo stomp Game Freak and hire you guys?

 

Then again, that would lead to finally having a good official Pokémon game, with actual features that the players demanded for years.

...and we can't have that XD

 

 

Im curious on that one too, this deserves a ''technical'' blog note.

[Hamster Haze]

18 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

Straight from the Devblog:

 

Soooo.....why doesn't Nintendo stomp Game Freak and hire you guys?

 

Then again, that would lead to finally having a good official Pokémon game, with actual features that the players demanded for years.

...and we can't have that XD

heh you expect ANY game company to follow through on fanfare? (most of the time) 

Although we got the dp remakes regardless even if the chibi graphics are odd so

[ShogokiX]

I'd rather skip on any new official Pokémon games, regardless if remake or new generation. Not seeing why i should support Game Freak any further after what they did with Gen 8.

If Nintendo were to finally strip the Pokémon licence from Game Freak for good and gives it to better developers i might reconsider though....

 

I'd rather wait for a little longer to play the final version of Reborn, as this game does so many things right that the official games COULD have been without hurting the franchise at all.

[laggless01]

13 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

I'd rather skip on any new official Pokémon games, regardless if remake or new generation. Not seeing why i should support Game Freak any further after what they did with Gen 8.

If Nintendo were to finally strip the Pokémon licence from Game Freak for good and gives it to better developers i might reconsider though....

 

I'd rather wait for a little longer to play the final version of Reborn, as this game does so many things right that the official games COULD have been without hurting the franchise at all.

I've always waited a while after release before buying them, so I've been of the mainline since gen6... The open world one got me curious though.

Gamefreak alone ain't the issue here I think, the recently announced remakes by another developer are...unique as well. Also Nintendo have been more eager to use questionable microtransactions the last few years too, so I hope they don't go full EA on their flagship (Imagine paying to max out IVs...)

 

Slicing up people like Reborn does might be a bit tricky for Pokemon's kid-friendly image though, and given lawsuits in the past I don't think they want to let that go. Doesn't mean they couldn't try to go the Mother-route. Can't keep replaying Explorers of the Sky forever to feel something from an official pokemon game. There are plenty of ways to develop a compelling narrative whilst not upsetting the kids.

[ShogokiX]

14 hours ago, laggless01 said:

Slicing up people like Reborn does might be a bit tricky for Pokemon's kid-friendly image though,

While this is true indeed, and i can't and won't argue about that part, that is not the thing i meant when i said that Reborn is what the official games could have been.

 

The things that both Reborn and Rejuv are doing right, at least in my opinion, is that they

1. make use of the environment in combat. Fighting in a forest? Good for your bug types. Fighting on a volcano? Bad for your water types. Makes battles more interesting AND makes sense, because why would you NOT make use of your environment in battle?
2. have characters that deserve to be who the story claims them to be. You can't just go into a gym without any preparation at all, mop the floor with each and every gym leader and throw them out like yesterdays garbage. And not just the gym leaders. Every character that is supposed to be strong in Battle is actually strong and needs to be fought by tactics instead of just raw power.
3. the general difficulty of this game is just right, for advanced players that is. Yes, Reborn and Rejuv may be too difficult for beginners (although i have not played Rejuv on it's "easy" difficulty setting yet, so i can't say how that would be), but they never claimed to be beginner friendly in the first place. Still, this level of difficulty would fit into official games as an optional difficulty to choose when starting a new game.

At least that's my opinion. And i don't see any good reasons why these things should not be in official games as well.

[wcv]

15 hours ago, laggless01 said:

Also Nintendo have been more eager to use questionable microtransactions the last few years too, so I hope they don't go full EA on their flagship

This sort of behavior out of Nintendo isn't new. They've done things like locking difficulty modes behind paywalls before, see BotW's DLC, and amiibo were basically just ways of locking content behind more paywalls, that they then DELIBERATELY made incredibly hard to find for no reason whatsoever (see getting Epona in BotW). The reason the N64 used cartridges and the gamecube used those stupid microdisk things was because Nintendo wanted to be able to make more money off of game developers.

 

People just ignore it this stuff when Nintendo does it because they like NIntendo's first party games, so make excuses.

 

To grab the EA comparison, look at all the excuses people made up about Bioware games over the past decade as those steadily got worse and more crap snuck in.

[Lil' Sunny]

The reason people dont mind nintendo as much is because most people don't realise it, sure some fans can see it, but they arent as egregiously in your face as some companies with stuff like Lootboxes and P2W DLC

[laggless01]

6 hours ago, Lil' Sunny said:

The reason people dont mind nintendo as much is because most people don't realise it, sure some fans can see it, but they arent as egregiously in your face as some companies with stuff like Lootboxes and P2W DLC

This is what I mean. Yes, Nintendo has done crap but I'm not eager for it to become blatantly-sell-gambling-to-children-immoral like EA (unless I missed they already hit that low).

 

On 3/31/2021 at 6:32 PM, ShogokiX said:

While this is true indeed, and i can't and won't argue about that part, that is not the thing i meant when i said that Reborn is what the official games could have been.

 

The things that both Reborn and Rejuv are doing right, at least in my opinion, is that they

1. make use of the environment in combat. Fighting in a forest? Good for your bug types. Fighting on a volcano? Bad for your water types. Makes battles more interesting AND makes sense, because why would you NOT make use of your environment in battle?
2. have characters that deserve to be who the story claims them to be. You can't just go into a gym without any preparation at all, mop the floor with each and every gym leader and throw them out like yesterdays garbage. And not just the gym leaders. Every character that is supposed to be strong in Battle is actually strong and needs to be fought by tactics instead of just raw power.
3. the general difficulty of this game is just right, for advanced players that is. Yes, Reborn and Rejuv may be too difficult for beginners (although i have not played Rejuv on it's "easy" difficulty setting yet, so i can't say how that would be), but they never claimed to be beginner friendly in the first place. Still, this level of difficulty would fit into official games as an optional difficulty to choose when starting a new game.

At least that's my opinion. And i don't see any good reasons why these things should not be in official games as well.

1. I think they tried in Gen7 with terrains, but yes, it is highly underdeveloped still. Maybe they don't want to make things too overwhelming, but there are ways to ease a player into this. For example, Reborn does this very well by keeping the main "tutorial" in a neutral city setting, then through exploration you encounter new environments and effects have (mostly) clear text/visual cues.

2. YES. It would be nice to make gyms convey specific mechanics to master. For example, one centered around Trick room, another around phasing, another around VoltTurnFlip etc. It would be a great opportunity to also introduce what's new in a new generation through a gym. It wouldn't even be a new idea, Gen6 had a Gym introduce Megas iirc.

3. You need to keep in mind not everyone seeks out Reborn, whilst a wide variety of people swarm around the mainline. Balancing difficulty for such a diverse group to be right for all is...quite difficult, if not impossible. Even Reborn has a Hardcore mode bc some seek even tougher challenges. Difficulty modes in a pokemon game however require more than just adding a few levels (looking at you, gen5). You'd have to rework the AI to be far more competent too, and ask Andracass how fun that is. But yes, for me too the mainline difficulty has dropped too hard to enjoy as 'challenges' can't be taken seriously. The former two elements add more solutions (but make AI tricker to work too) and make opponents feel far more rewarding to beat.

[The Swordsman]

On 3/30/2021 at 6:31 AM, ShogokiX said:

I'd rather skip on any new official Pokémon games, regardless if remake or new generation. Not seeing why i should support Game Freak any further after what they did with Gen 8.

If Nintendo were to finally strip the Pokémon licence from Game Freak for good and gives it to better developers i might reconsider though....

 

I'd rather wait for a little longer to play the final version of Reborn, as this game does so many things right that the official games COULD have been without hurting the franchise at all.

I taken a similar if less extreme stance, if the game does not have  Wiggltuff, Samurott, Gallade, Dusk Lycanroc, Togekiss and Donpahn and it must be all 6, I won't buy the game at all. I've put up with GF removing features that make the game better, phoning in the story and characters (like X and Y) and barely innovating before, my favorites is my last straw. To this day I still haven't bought Sword. What makes this even more baffling is Ultra Moon was IMO a high point to end the 3DS era and everyone of Nintendo's other major franchises and even Digimon was hitting it  all out of the park but Pokemon is instead, as of right now, the worst its ever been.

 

As for your other reply,

1. I agree, its one of the things Reborn introduced that felt missing and natural from the actual games.

2. A few of the gens do actually have that like Gen 5.

3. I have to disagree, I do find Reborn a bit too hard for its own good and that it just barely doesn't cause character select forcing.  Rej actually does balance the difficulty better IMO.

[Draconis]

Alright, I've trained up my team, filled the Dex, and I am ready af for this!

[ShogokiX]

It's nice to see some other opinions on my post about the 3 things that could be done to improve official Pokémon. At least the point to include terrain into battle seems to be something we can agree on.

 

@laggless01 also had quite the interesting response in terms of the second point on the list. Gyms that are build around a center strategy, like a certain move, or even a combination of 2 or 3 moves. The trick room is an idea that i like. Reborn actually does this with Radomus' gym.

 

As for the third part, i am well aware that not every Pokémon veteran is looking for the level of challenge that comes with Reborn and Rejuv. Howver, it's just like with the Dark Souls franchise: Some people like to get their butts handed to them, and for some, even that is still not enough.

 

I do see @The Swordsman's point with Reborn being quite difficult towards its second half of the game, but, in my opinion that is, as you slowly get closer to not only very high leveled mons, and quite the huge pool of possible mons to pick from, but also to the point where mega evolution and z-moves are available to the player, it becomes quite the delicate act of balance to keep up a decent amount of challenge, while also trying not to be too difficult, so that beating it becomes almost impossible.

[Draconis]

I swear, the more legendaries are accounted for, the more excited I get. By the time it's full, I'll be vibrating like a jackhammer.

[ShogokiX]

16 minutes ago, Draconis said:

I swear, the more legendaries are accounted for, the more excited I get. By the time it's full, I'll be vibrating like a jackhammer.

a "jackhammer", huh? You sure you didn't mean something else that vibrates? 

 

But yeah, it's nice to see that number slowly climbing up.

As i have now completed all self imposed Reborn challenges on my list, i will now start trying to beat all Persona games that i own (which is every game except Persona 1 and 2, had those in the past, but well....somehow got lost, but i don't care any more) on the highest difficulty AND try to go 100% on all of them (which for some requires to beat them a second time on NG+). That might keep me occupied for a while.....a month or so... maybe two... XD

[Draconis]

17 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

a "jackhammer", huh? You sure you didn't mean something else that vibrates? 

Yeah you're right

more like a cell phone

[The Swordsman]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:59 AM, ShogokiX said:

quite the huge pool of possible mons to pick from,

While I do get that and the others, some of us choose to just play with certain pokemon because of that pokemon being their favorites or wanting to do a mono type run. Honestly the example I'm thinking of is the gauntlet at the end of 18.

[wcv]

58 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

While I do get that and the others, some of us choose to just play with certain pokemon because of that pokemon being their favorites or wanting to do a mono type run. Honestly the example I'm thinking of is the gauntlet at the end of 18.

But...that's a self-imposed challenge. You're going to have more trouble, that's just how it works. Pokemon is a numbers game, and some options are just outright better than others. Honestly at this point I kinda feel like the Gauntlet could be buffed a bit, as could a fair few of the gym leaders.

[ShogokiX]

1 hour ago, The Swordsman said:

While I do get that and the others, some of us choose to just play with certain pokemon because of that pokemon being their favorites or wanting to do a mono type run. Honestly the example I'm thinking of is the gauntlet at the end of 18.

 

17 minutes ago, wcv said:

But...that's a self-imposed challenge. You're going to have more trouble, that's just how it works. Pokemon is a numbers game, and some options are just outright better than others. Honestly at this point I kinda feel like the Gauntlet could be buffed a bit, as could a fair few of the gym leaders.

Well, you both have some fair points there. I've seen quite a share of let's plays and live streams for Reborn and Rejuv, and quite a lot of them had their own limited selection of favorites that they kept using. But yes, you do have the option to catch lots of different mons, or to just use a select few, that's up to you. In that regard Reborn and Rejuv are no different than the official games, as you COULD train just your fav six mons, or capture and train every mon that crosses your path.

Of course how difficult certain parts of the game are is entirely dependant on both your preparation for what's up next, and your overall skill in general. And some other factors, like your mons numbers (talking EV and IV here), or your luck with critical hits at the right/worst time....

And then there is that thing with self imposed challenges. And i know quite a lot about that. I nuzlocked Reborn, i mono typed it, i even beat it by ONLY using mons that are WEAK to the teams the gymleaders or boss type characters use. Yes, you can go through hell with that, but it's your own choice to do that or not.

[The Swordsman]

22 hours ago, wcv said:

But...that's a self-imposed challenge. You're going to have more trouble, that's just how it works. Pokemon is a numbers game, and some options are just outright better than others. Honestly at this point I kinda feel like the Gauntlet could be buffed a bit, as could a fair few of the gym leaders.

Mono typing is....but playing with favorites is not. In fact it is a normal playstyle that is expected and even encouraged by Game Freak and Nintendo. I just included mono runs as another type where the selection is limited that people like to do and the option for them should still be there. While you may be in the camp that likes things to be ultra difficult because of the challenge, others like myself are more drawn to the story and characters. I rather not the game go from DS1/3 to DS2:SotFS under the misguided notion that being as difficult as you can is all that matters. Besides forcing the player to only use certain pokemon just to win is boring.

[Lil' Sunny]

Exactly, i remember my very first complete run of reborn and having to resort to, basically a new specific pokemon for each leader. Growlithe for shelly, mamoswine for charlotte etc. Now i've finished an Ice mono where i beat arceus with a vanilluxe and a mamoswine. and i've almost finished a steel mono where trash wormadam was my MVP right up to (and including) Serra basically

[wcv]

2 hours ago, The Swordsman said:

Mono typing is....but playing with favorites is not. In fact it is a normal playstyle that is expected and even encouraged by Game Freak and Nintendo.

Playing with your favorites IS a self-imposed challenge. Because there's no reason to expect that your favorites will be the best option for any given situation. Like I said, Pokemon is a numbers game, and some options will always be better than others. Not being able to get through a playthrough with awful Pokemon is not a flaw, Glaceon is my favorite and I virtually never use her because her speed is just so awful.

 

And saying its encouraged by GF and Nintendo honestly isn't much of an argument considering what direction they've gone with the franchise.

[The Swordsman]

20 hours ago, wcv said:

Playing with your favorites IS a self-imposed challenge. Because there's no reason to expect that your favorites will be the best option for any given situation. Like I said, Pokemon is a numbers game, and some options will always be better than others. Not being able to get through a playthrough with awful Pokemon is not a flaw, Glaceon is my favorite and I virtually never use her because her speed is just so awful.

 

And saying its encouraged by GF and Nintendo honestly isn't much of an argument considering what direction they've gone with the franchise.

No it is not, as not even Reborn, as up to this moment, expects you to be only using certain pokemon in every battle. In fact the completed dex up to 7 is listed as a feature of the game, so yes if it came to that point it would indeed be a flaw. Character select forcing in general is a flaw. Like it or not there is more to Reborn than a difficult game. if you want nothing but hyper competitive battles Pokemon Showdown and Smogon already has you covered for now and the optional Nightclub is coming in the next update.

 

Its what they, back when they were in everyone's good graces, originally upheld to the point of having a Elite 4 member professing it in Gen 2.

[ShogokiX]

Playing with your favorite Mons is not a self-imposed challenge per se, but it can BECOME a self-imposed challenge if you absolutely refuse to accept that your favorite mons will not get you past the gym or boss you are currently stuck at. Yes, most people would naturally tend to use Pokémon they like, but sometimes, as much as you like to keep your Pikachu and not evolve it under any circumstances, unless you are Ash Ketchum and can bend the rules of Pokémon battles as you like, you will be forced to accept that your Pikachu won't do much against a team of fully evolved high level Pokémon.

 

Also we should not forget that Reborn is supposed to be way more challenging than any official Pokémon game. Of course, the highest level of challenge will always come from playing against experienced competetive players. But Reborn does a very good job of testing your skills and your ability to adapt to a given situation in battle. And i really want to see how far the challenge can go with the night club.

[kithas]

I mean it also depends on which mons are your favorite, like if your faves are tyranitar, garchomp, lucario, blaziken, etc, yeah, it may not be a challenge at all (more than reborn usually is) but if you just love pokemon that do mediocre in battle (say, Ledian), it WILL be a challenge lol

Specially in Reborn