The Last, Only, and Very Final X% Hype Thread

[RocketOSullivan]

Sirius is more evil than her. She is just more powerful, more intelligent, more dangerous then.

[Dark Legend]

On 1/5/2022 at 5:09 PM, RocketOSullivan said:

Sirius is more evil than her. She is just more powerful, more intelligent, more dangerous then.

Well, not really. Lin masterminded Team Meteor, which cause thousands of deaths. Sirius is only evil because he joined Team Meteor, because of Lin. Plus, who knows what Lin could do in Ep. 19??!?!?!?

[Bananacake887]

5 hours ago, Dark Eclipse said:

Well, not really. Lin masterminded Team Meteor, which cause thousands of deaths. Sirius is only evil because he joined Team Meteor, because of Lin. Plus, who knows what Lin could do in Ep. 19??!?!?!?

Lin has only "masterminded" Team Meteor for a short time, and while she did introduce terrorism to Team Meteor, they were still doing evil before her sudden rise. Sirius has been in Team Meteor from the get-go, telling Solaris about the keys and seeking them out himself. For example, Sirius killed Elena Molinar(Corey's wife) and set fire to Belrose mansion, killing Monty and Caroline. These two events occurred well before Lin joined Team Meteor, meaning that Sirius' behaviour can't have been inspired by Lin. Whilst the only known evil acts that Sirius has committed have been while he was affiliated with Team Meteor, he has been described as having a 'history is written by the winners' mindset, with him willing to do anything to get his way. It has been suggested that Sirius has his own goals, and is using Team Meteor to achieve them, potentially wanting to overthrow Lin at the end so that he can obtain Arceus' power for his own evil deeds. 

[Dark Legend]

14 minutes ago, Bananacake887 said:

Lin has only "masterminded" Team Meteor for a short time, and while she did introduce terrorism to Team Meteor, they were still doing evil before her sudden rise. Sirius has been in Team Meteor from the get-go, telling Solaris about the keys and seeking them out himself. For example, Sirius killed Elena Molinar(Corey's wife) and set fire to Belrose mansion, killing Monty and Caroline. These two events occurred well before Lin joined Team Meteor, meaning that Sirius' behaviour can't have been inspired by Lin. Whilst the only known evil acts that Sirius has committed have been while he was affiliated with Team Meteor, he has been described as having a 'history is written by the winners' mindset, with him willing to do anything to get his way. It has been suggested that Sirius has his own goals, and is using Team Meteor to achieve them, potentially wanting to overthrow Lin at the end so that he can obtain Arceus' power for his own evil deeds. 

I'm willing to believe that after Lin gets what she wants, She will kill Sirius and Solaris

[Bananacake887]

1 minute ago, Dark Eclipse said:

I'm willing to believe that after Lin gets what she wants, She will kill Sirius and Solaris

That could very well happen, but being more powerful doesn't necessarily make you more evil.

[Vulnona]

14 hours ago, Bananacake887 said:

Lin has only "masterminded" Team Meteor for a short time, and while she did introduce terrorism to Team Meteor, they were still doing evil before her sudden rise. Sirius has been in Team Meteor from the get-go, telling Solaris about the keys and seeking them out himself. For example, Sirius killed Elena Molinar(Corey's wife) and set fire to Belrose mansion, killing Monty and Caroline. These two events occurred well before Lin joined Team Meteor, meaning that Sirius' behaviour can't have been inspired by Lin. Whilst the only known evil acts that Sirius has committed have been while he was affiliated with Team Meteor, he has been described as having a 'history is written by the winners' mindset, with him willing to do anything to get his way. It has been suggested that Sirius has his own goals, and is using Team Meteor to achieve them, potentially wanting to overthrow Lin at the end so that he can obtain Arceus' power for his own evil deeds. 

Good points! 

I think we can safely say that both are pretty evil. 

Lin is the one that demonstrated a more sadistic mindset, though. Sirius is willing to kill people to achieve his goals, but Lin 

Spoiler

has you fight your friends in a brutal penalty game just for her pleasure. And she doesn't just kill Taka - she tricks Titania into doing it. 

Sirius is certainly cruel when he burns Eclipse's soul and mocks Solaris with his son's death, but Lin is on another level. 

I think when it comes to morality, Lin is indeed more evil than Sirius, judging from the actions we saw & heard both commit. 

Of course, E19 could change this dynamic when we find out more about Sirius and Lin. 

 

... God, I can't wait...! 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Vulnona

[The Swordsman]

From what I am recall (forgive its been awhile) Team Meteor's  activities were not evil at all and more civil, just trying to get people leave the area in order to protect Arceus. Once Lin came along that changed for the worse as her methods were seen as necessary since they got actual results and then it was further warped from protecting Arceus to using it to make a "better" world.  However, even that goal is a lie, in reality Lin is no different from Cyrus.

 

Sirus on the other hand murdered some people before he joined Team Meteor for the very keys Solaris was supposed to protect, became Lin's right hand man and erased Eclipse from existence.

 

While I do find Sirus to be more evil as Lin hasn't erased someone from existence yet, there is no denying she is the one most responsible for everything wrong that goes on in the game, because as Sirus notes Solaris, having lost his Team to a usurper, is the only one still on Team Meteor who cares about the old world. (I presume El does too but he isn't technically a member)

[Vulnona]

2 hours ago, The Swordsman said:

as Lin hasn't erased someone from existence yet

I'm really not sure whether Eclipse's fate is worse than actual death. Since Eclipse is physically unharmed and seemed to suffer no pain, I kinda feel it's less severe than being impaled in the gut by a ghost sword. 

Also... maybe it's just false hope, but Chandelure's dex entry says "the spirits burned up in its ominous flame lose their way and wander this world forever". Since you can encounter spirits in the void, maybe there is hope for Eclipse. Maybe as a post-game sidequest or something. I really appreciate that death - so far - has been permanent and therefore meaningful in Reborn (though it breaks my heart in one particular case), but the fact that we can see Eclipse in Calcenon seems to set up a possible return. 

Should that actually happen, it would make Sirius' action a tad less permanent, though still as morally deplorable as right now. 

[Draconis]

Switches?

[Mr.Badass]

29 minutes ago, Draconis said:

Switches?

Puzzles at team meteor base or postgame content .

[The Swordsman]

20 hours ago, Vulnona said:

I'm really not sure whether Eclipse's fate is worse than actual death. Since Eclipse is physically unharmed and seemed to suffer no pain, I kinda feel it's less severe than being impaled in the gut by a ghost sword. 

Also... maybe it's just false hope, but Chandelure's dex entry says "the spirits burned up in its ominous flame lose their way and wander this world forever". Since you can encounter spirits in the void, maybe there is hope for Eclipse. Maybe as a post-game sidequest or something. I really appreciate that death - so far - has been permanent and therefore meaningful in Reborn (though it breaks my heart in one particular case), but the fact that we can see Eclipse in Calcenon seems to set up a possible return. 

Should that actually happen, it would make Sirius' action a tad less permanent, though still as morally deplorable as right now. 

 

Ah I did not know that, as since I don't normally pursue pokemon I don't intend to use the last time I saw Chandelure's dex entry was in the original White which was,

 

"Being consumed in Chandelure's flame burns up the spirit, leaving the body behind. "

 

Which implies the soul's destruction and made me dislike the pokemon even more. (As a litwick was feeding off its own trainer) Thanks for the info!

[Monochrome_Complex]

I don't buy Meteor not being bad before lin shot up in control. They might not have been as extreme but fact is they still sought to "cleanse" the city which sounds pretty sus IMO and Solaris despite being "old school" Meteor is still a pretty awful person given his actions in the game. So far I've found no reason to sympathize with Meteor and everything bad that's happened to them kinda resulted from their own actions previously.

[Draconis]

I just thought of something

Spoiler

Even if Lin is the final boss (kinda goes without saying at this point), what if we get into the Hall of Fame first, thereby making us Champion? Yeah, Lin beat Ame, but the question is, was it officially chalked up to her being Champion? If not, there is still a chance. Just my opinion tho

 

[Dark Legend]

Isn't Lin insane?

 

54 minutes ago, Draconis said:

I just thought of something

  Hide contents

Even if Lin is the final boss (kinda goes without saying at this point), what if we get into the Hall of Fame first, thereby making us Champion? Yeah, Lin beat Ame, but the question is, was it officially chalked up to her being Champion? If not, there is still a chance. Just my opinion tho

 

Oh, wow. Heres what I think if this happens:

Spoiler

We make it to the Hall of Fame first. Lin gets mad, then fights us. We, officially, become Champion of Reborn.

 

[Green Bean 501]

57 minutes ago, Dark Champion said:

Oh, wow. Heres what I think if this happens:

  Hide contents

We make it to the Hall of Fame first. Lin gets mad, then fights us. We, officially, become Champion of Reborn.

 

Spoiler

Same, I think it's gonna be something like Gen 7 where Lin is the first opponent we have to face as champion

 

[CrystalStar]

Oh come on, y'all really think it will be as lame as Lin fighting us in the champion's room?

This would be fine in other games but this Is Reborn we are talking about. Lin is probably summon some new worldy type shit which gives her a million advantages and then fights us and Pulse Arceus

[Dark Legend]

4 minutes ago, CrystalStar said:

Oh come on, y'all really think it will be as lame as Lin fighting us in the champion's room?

This would be fine in other games but this Is Reborn we are talking about. Lin is probably summon some new worldy type shit which gives her a million advantages and then fights us and Pulse Arceus

I always thought it would be in the New World

[RocketOSullivan]

1 hour ago, CrystalStar said:

Oh come on, y'all really think it will be as lame as Lin fighting us in the champion's room?

This would be fine in other games but this Is Reborn we are talking about. Lin is probably summon some new worldy type shit which gives her a million advantages and then fights us and Pulse Arceus

Rather than the champion's room I'm pretty sure she will fight us at the summit of Citae Astrae Aerie, after obtaining the four keys by beating each Elite 4 member at Charous Mountain, and opening the final door. 

[The Swordsman]

20 hours ago, Monochrome_Complex said:

"cleanse" the city

Which happened after Lin joined, you have to remember that originally for the longest time she was just the unofficial leader, her actually getting the position is fairly recent.  Solaris' fall, like with most well written villains, was a slow fade. Originally there was no Team Meteor, it was his family protecting the keys, a job Solaris did not take seriously and wanted out of. Only when his parents were brutally murdered for the keys does he fully commit to the job, which leads to Team Meteor being created, their peaceful protests not working at all and to Lin and their new goals. 

[Dark Legend]

11 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

Which happened after Lin joined, you have to remember that originally for the longest time she was just the unofficial leader, her actually getting the position is fairly recent.  Solaris' fall, like with most well written villains, was a slow fade. Originally there was no Team Meteor, it was his family protecting the keys, a job Solaris did not take seriously and wanted out of. Only when his parents were brutally murdered for the keys does he fully commit to the job, which leads to Team Meteor being created, their peaceful protests not working at all and to Lin and their new goals. 

Thats.....deep....

[Aphelli]

On 1/9/2022 at 3:22 PM, Draconis said:

Switches?

 

They could also be story branches (or perhaps leaves?) depending on previous choices and relationship points, rather than “mechanical” puzzles. 
 

I also do not believe in anything like a Champion battle. Given… Lin, the entire League hierarchy has basically become meaningless pretense. Like, I don’t know, a formal duel for the seat of Emperor of the Austro-Hungarian Empire could be today. 
 

CrystalStar’s suggestion seems as likely a sequence of events as any (although I’d expect the E4 to be more spread out instead of being concentrated in one mountain – how to make a decent Flower Garden? What about Starlight Arena?). 

Other things I hope E19 can shed a light on – what the point of the whole Ametrine thing? What is the truth of Luna’s story? What is Lin (the various stunts in E16-18 seem to rule out “who”)? 
 

53 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

Which happened after Lin joined, you have to remember that originally for the longest time she was just the unofficial leader, her actually getting the position is fairly recent.  Solaris' fall, like with most well written villains, was a slow fade. Originally there was no Team Meteor, it was his family protecting the keys, a job Solaris did not take seriously and wanted out of. Only when his parents were brutally murdered for the keys does he fully commit to the job, which leads to Team Meteor being created, their peaceful protests not working at all and to Lin and their new goals. 

Do we have some evidence of that? I don’t think it’s consistent for Lin to let herself be “officially” subordinate when she’s the one actually calling the shots. Moreover, Team Meteor is a decade old at least and engineered the meltdown of its economy (with the earthquakes, Yureyu, etc). These weren’t peaceful methods and I doubt that Lin was in charge then. 

[Evi Crystal]

1 hour ago, Mindlack said:

Do we have some evidence of that? I don’t think it’s consistent for Lin to let herself be “officially” subordinate when she’s the one actually calling the shots. Moreover, Team Meteor is a decade old at least and engineered the meltdown of its economy (with the earthquakes, Yureyu, etc). These weren’t peaceful methods and I doubt that Lin was in charge then.

Well, we don't know actually the chronologically order about some certain events regarding with Lin, but it could be true.

 

Like pre-Lin Team Meteor did some shady things regarding with natural disasters and the city's collapse, just to make the citizens leave. Maybe they could already had the PULSE- machines before her becoming the leader, but under her things got too brutal now? Trying to recap the whole events, so my apologies if my brain is slow

 

 

1 hour ago, Mindlack said:

CrystalStar’s suggestion seems as likely a sequence of events as any (although I’d expect the E4 to be more spread out instead of being concentrated in one mountain – how to make a decent Flower Garden? What about Starlight Arena?). 

Spoiler

Maybe... We're going to fight them in different areas of the Reborn region instead of the Hall of Fame due to something happen there (maybe a secret Meteor base up there in secret like Devon?).

 

Heather being fought in Beryl Cemetery (it's around her hometown) or better yet Teknite Ridge to make her feel more free and happy because battles are found in the Mountain Field in these certain areas.

 

Laura is found- let's imagine this- in a secret flower garden hidden in a passage(a paradise/sanctuary just made for her) in the cave just southwest of the Belrose Mansion, where you can find the field readouts for her field and encountering Larvitar.

 

Elias will be fought in Sactum Subseven in the Holy Field (obviously because he has his cult house there). Or maybe use the power of freaking Dittoceus to summon it in the Citae Arc-d'Astrae Aerie, where Arceus Meteor is stored and somehow managed to gain access to the area? An alternative way or thought.

 

And last, but not least... Anna. Since we haven't the readouts for her Starlight Arena field yet, I would like it to connect it either in the Void (like it was shown in the Memeborn mod videos, where you could fight her along with Noel) or even connect it in a hidden portal in the Vanhanen Castle or Iolia Valley (a nod to her father Radomus and adopted sister Luna).

 

Yeah, that would be cool and amazing.

 

On 1/8/2022 at 10:34 PM, Vulnona said:

I'm really not sure whether Eclipse's fate is worse than actual death. Since Eclipse is physically unharmed and seemed to suffer no pain, I kinda feel it's less severe than being impaled in the gut by a ghost sword. 

Also... maybe it's just false hope, but Chandelure's dex entry says "the spirits burned up in its ominous flame lose their way and wander this world forever". Since you can encounter spirits in the void, maybe there is hope for Eclipse.

I would like to rescue her, so we can kick Sirius ass to oblivion or else I'll be sad

 

1 hour ago, Mindlack said:

Other things I hope E19 can shed a light on – what the point of the whole Ametrine thing? What is the truth of Luna’s story? What is Lin (the various stunts in E16-18 seem to rule out “who”)?

There are so many questions to be answered, like with Zina Vanhanen, the other late Gym Leaders and Elite 4 lore or other unfilled gaps. I'm craving for the truth and answers.

[Egzample]

What if we are going to fight E4 to claim the keys and then we head to Citae to face Lin? I can't remember where are the keys now, but as far as I remember, E4 members were the original key keepers.

[Dark Legend]

I feel like there is hope for Eclipse. If theresnot, I'll be having a word with Ame to change the game...

[Amethyst]

On 1/9/2022 at 7:22 AM, Draconis said:

Switches?

 

switches are a type of true/false variable we use to track completed events and progress throughout the game. for instance, when you complete a sidequest, a switch is flipped on saying you did it. or, when you join aqua or magma gang, we flip a switch to keep track of what you did. pushing a crustle into a hole is tracked by a switch so it stays there. some relationship point events need a switch so you don't duplicate then. a switch manages whether you're on zekrom or reshiram. 

 

in e18, around ~1024 switches were used for the entire game up to that point. 

adding 1000 more means we've basically doubled the amount of things in game that are tracked. 

 

it probably sounds more impressive than it actually is in practice, since many of them you should never notice.  but it is a hallmark of the amount of work that's been done.