e18 spoilers Who could be the champion? [Theory]

[TheTGU]

I warn you, this is a long post  !

I originally wanted to post this on the X% thread but I quickly figured this theory is too large.

---

So, since this is the last episode and only one gym leader is left, there won't be any discussions as to who will be the upcoming gym leader. Unless the last gym leader also dies next episode

 

But since we will face the E4 & Champ next episode the identities of those could be up to speculation.

We do know that the following people are Elite 4 members: [E18 & earlier spoilers]

Spoiler

Laura and/or Bennett (since Bennett and Laura might team up)

Heather

Elias (not 100% sure on that one though)

This leaves one E4 member unknown. Who do you think could be the last E4 member?

---

Well, let's get to the main part of this post: The potential champion!

 

 

Who would be the champion?

I thought about that topic for a while and came to the following theory:

As we all know in-game Amethyst was defeated and decapitated by Lin, so Amethyst falls out of the equation.

Lin, on the other hand, can't be the champion because (as I'm pretty sure) the battle wasn't official, especially since Lin also killed Ame after the batttle. And on another note I don't think Lin would even want to be the champion nor battle as the champion.

I don't think that we will be the champion because we beat the E4 and there is no champion, though if that WOULD be the case we would probably have a challenger battle like in the 7th gen canon games. (Though there is no character other than the MC that beat (will have beaten) all gym leaders to qualify for the E4 battles, so even that isn't a possibility.

One might say Fern, since he/she (sorry, I don't remember xD) is our rival, though he stopped his/her journey for the gym badges for joining Team Meteor.

(And I also think there should be a battle against Ame somehow)

 

So, to recap: There will 99% be a champ battle

                   Ame is dead and she was the champ

                   Lin isn't the champ since she didn't play by the rules

                   No one except the MC is about to beat all the gym leaders of Reborn, thus being able to take on the E4 and thus being a possible candidate for the champion

 

 

The rest of my theory contains heavy E18 spoilers.

Spoiler

As we learned in E18, dead people in Reborn might not be quite as dead as we may have thought they were; they just land in some kind of other dimension we know as the "Void".

We saw numerous dead characters in the Void and some of them were... Ame.

 

(The next part explains why I think the Void really is where the dead end up, you can skip if you want to.

 

So, you might say "They're just illusions, the Void isn't really where the dead end up, it's just where we and a couple of other people landed when they were sucked in by Gardevoir's black hole!

Well... I don't think so.

First off, Reborn is more realistic than your average Pokémon (fan)game.

And, as any person with at least some knowledge of black holes knows: If you enter them, you're doomed.

While Gardevoir's black hole might not have behaved quite like a RL black hole would, I'd say you can probably just say video game logic there, since if it would behave like a RL black hole (and was massive enough to not instantly collapse in on itself, which Gardevoir's black hole apparently was (instantly at least)) the whole PokéPlanet would be gone, which would be quite an anticlimactic end to Reborn.

Regarding the "They're just illusions": It seems like they ARE illusions...

Of the real people in there! This is evidenced by us seing both an aware version of Cain and unaware illusions of Cain (and also just an aware version of Gardevoir and also of Kiki, who had died prior and elsewhere, which further proofs the claim)
It is also further evidenced by the fact that Shade, who seems to be closely related to all things death, can leave and enter the realm and also take people with him/her. (Luna, seens to also have some kind of power over the Void. AND LIN. For whatever reasson. But I won't go down this theory rabbithole today. This is about the potential champion)

 

To recap again: The Void is where the dead end up

                        Ame is dead, thus in the void

                        There are ways to leave the void

 

If we take both of my recaps there really only is one logical conclusion:

Ame comes back to the world of the living and acts as the champion again!

Now, what do you think about my theory?

I tried my best to find any potential flaws, but if I did miss some then make sure to point them out to me  .

This theory might be edited a bit/ added upon.

---

Did I miss anything?

Do you have some theories of your own regarding this topic?

 

Well, I think I stole enough of your time now  .

(And I also think that I'm bad at ending my theories)

[seki108]

I think Ame said on Tumblr one time that in-game Ame was sort-of the honorary champion, in the same way as the Gen 7 Professor was in S/M, until someone actually beat the League for the first time.  Whether I'm remembering correctly or if I am mis-remembering a post from probably more than a year ago, I can't say with 100% certainty.

 

Of course, even if she said that back then, it may not be canon by the time the last episode hits.

[TheTGU]

Well, if that's the case that would mean we wouldn't have a champion battle (since no one else qualifies).

The only other option I see there is that we don't get a champion fight, but instead the evil team finale. (Like in BW)

(Which I still find unlikely, having no champion fight in Pokémon Reborn would feel weird to me)

Edited August 29, 2018 by TheTGU

[Tacos]

Pretty sure the easiest way to sum it up is:

• Anna is a member of the E4
• Ame was originally the honorary champion.
• The battle that took place between Ame and Lin was not an official league battle and therefore Lin is not officially the champion.
• Lin most likely will, however, take the place of what a champion battle is in main games.
• The intended next champion, as stated by Adrienn, is us.  We are not there currently, but once we defeat the rest of the league, we will.

[TheTGU]

5 minutes ago, Tacos said:

Pretty sure the easiest way to sum it up is:

• Anna is a member of the E4
• Ame was originally the honorary champion.
• The battle that took place between Ame and Lin was not an official league battle and therefore Lin is not officially the champion.
• Lin most likely will, however, take the place of what a champion battle is in main games.
• The intended next champion, as stated by Adrienn, is us.  We are not there currently, but once we defeat the rest of the league, we will.

 

So, I was originally going to include a section talking about why I personally don't think Anna will be part of the E4 (unless that was already confirmed somewhere and I missed it), though that doesn't really matter that much.

The reasson why I don't think Lin will "function" as the champion is mainly that I don't think she has a reasson to.

Her plans seem to not involve getting to power in a legal way.

And the circumstances under which we may (or may not ) fight Lin will probably not allow us to beat the E4 beforehand.

[Lord Drakyle]

1 hour ago, TheTGU said:

I warn you, this is a long post  !

I originally wanted to post this on the X% thread but I quickly figured this theory is too large.

---

So, since this is the last episode and only one gym leader is left, there won't be any discussions as to who will be the upcoming gym leader. Unless the last gym leader also dies next episode

 

But since we will face the E4 & Champ next episode the identities of those could be up to speculation.

We do know that the following people are Elite 4 members: [E18 & earlier spoilers]

  Hide contents

Laura and/or Bennett (since Bennett and Laura might team up)

Heather

Elias (not 100% sure on that one though)

This leaves one E4 member unknown. Who do you think could be the last E4 member?

---

Well, let's get to the main part of this post: The potential champion!

 

 

Who would be the champion?

I thought about that topic for a while and came to the following theory:

As we all know in-game Amethyst was defeated and decapitated by Lin, so Amethyst falls out of the equation.

Lin, on the other hand, can't be the champion because (as I'm pretty sure) the battle wasn't official, especially since Lin also killed Ame after the batttle. And on another note I don't think Lin would even want to be the champion nor battle as the champion.

I don't think that we will be the champion because we beat the E4 and there is no champion, though if that WOULD be the case we would probably have a challenger battle like in the 7th gen canon games. (Though there is no character other than the MC that beat (will have beaten) all gym leaders to qualify for the E4 battles, so even that isn't a possibility.

One might say Fern, since he/she (sorry, I don't remember xD) is our rival, though he stopped his/her journey for the gym badges for joining Team Meteor.

(And I also think there should be a battle against Ame somehow)

 

So, to recap: There will 99% be a champ battle

                   Ame is dead and she was the champ

                   Lin isn't the champ since she didn't play by the rules

                   No one except the MC is about to beat all the gym leaders of Reborn, thus being able to take on the E4 and thus being a possible candidate for the champion

 

 

The rest of my theory contains heavy E18 spoilers.

  Hide contents

As we learned in E18, dead people in Reborn might not be quite as dead as we may have thought they were; they just land in some kind of other dimension we know as the "Void".

We saw numerous dead characters in the Void and some of them were... Ame.

 

(The next part explains why I think the Void really is where the dead end up, you can skip if you want to.

 

So, you might say "They're just illusions, the Void isn't really where the dead end up, it's just where we and a couple of other people landed when they were sucked in by Gardevoir's black hole!

Well... I don't think so.

First off, Reborn is more realistic than your average Pokémon (fan)game.

And, as any person with at least some knowledge of black holes knows: If you enter them, you're doomed.

While Gardevoir's black hole might not have behaved quite like a RL black hole would, I'd say you can probably just say video game logic there, since if it would behave like a RL black hole (and was massive enough to not instantly collapse in on itself, which Gardevoir's black hole apparently was (instantly at least)) the whole PokéPlanet would be gone, which would be quite an anticlimactic end to Reborn.

Regarding the "They're just illusions": It seems like they ARE illusions...

Of the real people in there! This is evidenced by us seing both an aware version of Cain and unaware illusions of Cain (and also just an aware version of Gardevoir and also of Kiki, who had died prior and elsewhere, which further proofs the claim)
It is also further evidenced by the fact that Shade, who seems to be closely related to all things death, can leave and enter the realm and also take people with him/her. (Luna, seens to also have some kind of power over the Void. AND LIN. For whatever reasson. But I won't go down this theory rabbithole today. This is about the potential champion)

 

To recap again: The Void is where the dead end up

                        Ame is dead, thus in the void

                        There are ways to leave the void

 

If we take both of my recaps there really only is one logical conclusion:

Ame comes back to the world of the living and acts as the champion again!

Now, what do you think about my theory?

I tried my best to find any potential flaws, but if I did miss some then make sure to point them out to me  .

This theory might be edited a bit/ added upon.

---

Did I miss anything?

Do you have some theories of your own regarding this topic?

 

Well, I think I stole enough of your time now  .

(And I also think that I'm bad at ending my theories)

Pretty sure Ame never liked having her character in the game in the first place, i doubt she would bring the character back from the dead as for the theory:

 

Spoiler

I believe if Cain, the real one, is in the void and manages to escape with Luna's help we don't know how many badges he has but we can assume he still challenged gyms and probably by the time we reach the Elite 4 will have also become eligible to challenge the Elite 4, i suspect it will follow the route of us being the Champion facing our first challenger being Cain, though since we know that from what Eve told us in Calcenon there is a PULSE built for Arceus and we know the New World field exists we may very well find ourselves on that field facing off against Lin who wants to demonstrate that even the official champion who beat the Reborn League challenge is unable to defeat her, just so she can crush the hope of anyone who thinks you can stop her, just so she can savor in that victory and the torment caused or it might be Arceus would be unable to be controlled unless she proves to it she is superior to you, pretty much gotta earn the right to control it rather than just gather some keys, this could also tie into the scene we saw in Shade's Gym which might be after defeating Lin as the Champion, Arceus destroys her.

 

[Gheist]

Anna is the last E4 member first of all. Now regarding whether Bennett or Laura will be in the E4 battle, I think it might depend on the choices you made in the game. I mean they are both E4 members so I don't see why Ame wouldn't do something like this. Alternatively, Amaria might end up in the E4 or even as the champion if you took the Reshiram path with a new much stronger team.

But most likely the champion is Lin since she's the only person we haven't beaten in battle yet and she defeated the previous champion.

 

Now I have a theory regarding how this might go down. First you will have your final showdown with Meteor and Lin where she will be using some insane cheats like the pulse Arceus and then after you beat her (or maybe someone will seal the Arceus or something plot wise) the real Lin will decide that she wants to fight you fair and square next time using her regular team and it might as well be done as a champion battle. This would be pretty fucking awesome if you ask me.

Of course the champion battle might be different depending on your choices so maybe Lin won't want to battle you or maybe she'll die/disappear so someone else will be the champion. Again, possibly Amaria. Or maybe even Bennett, Anna or less likely Fern/Victoria (your rival being the champion like in gen 1).

 

[Abyssreaper99]

3 minutes ago, Gheist said:

Anna is the last E4 member first of all. Now regarding whether Bennett or Laura will be in the E4 battle, I think it might depend on the choices you made in the game. I mean they are both E4 members so I don't see why Ame wouldn't do something like this. Alternatively, Amaria might end up in the E4 or even as the champion if you took the Reshiram path with a new much stronger team.

But most likely the champion is Lin since she's the only person we haven't beaten in battle yet and she defeated the previous champion.

 

Now I have a theory regarding how this might go down. First you will have your final showdown with Meteor and Lin where she will be using some insane cheats like the pulse Arceus and then after you beat her (or maybe someone will seal the Arceus or something plot wise) the real Lin will decide that she wants to fight you fair and square next time using her regular team and it might as well be done as a champion battle. This would be pretty fucking awesome if you ask me.

Of course the champion battle might be different depending on your choices so maybe Lin won't want to battle you or maybe she'll die/disappear so someone else will be the champion. Again, possibly Amaria. Or maybe even Bennett, Anna or less likely Fern/Victoria (your rival being the champion like in gen 1).

 

It wouldn't make sense storyline-wise for Amaria to be an elite 4 member, plus who would take over from Amaria as leader.. Even then El, Heather and Laura being confirmed with Anna being strongly hinted at being E4 members. It wouldn't make sense for Lin to face the player fair and square and she would take advantage where ever she can.

[Gheist]

On 8/29/2018 at 9:19 PM, Abyssreaper99 said:

It wouldn't make sense storyline-wise for Amaria to be an elite 4 member, plus who would take over from Amaria as leader.. Even then El, Heather and Laura being confirmed with Anna being strongly hinted at being E4 members. It wouldn't make sense for Lin to face the player fair and square and she would take advantage where ever she can.

Why wouldn't Amaria make sense? If I remember correctly, she promises to get stronger and battle you again (or something to that effect) after you beat her on the Reshiram path. I'd probably put her as the champion over an E4 member but both could work. And not having a substitute water leader would be the least of Reborn's problems at this point with Ame dead and all.

Not sure what you mean by Laura "being confirmed" unless you're talking about Ame saying something outside of the game since anything could happen in the story at this point. Bennett seems like he wants to give her the spot back but maybe El or Lin will do something so that he won't be able to quit. Again your choices could decide whether you will battle Laura or Bennett on the E4 run.

 

As for Lin wanting to face you fair and square, the scenario I proposed already has you beating her and completely stopping her plans. She would be left with nothing and I could easily see a desire to battle the person who bested her emerge from that. There would be no point cheating since the battle would have no stakes other than victory itself. Of course I'm assuming Lin undergoes a massive change after the climax which I think is extremely possible if she ends up losing after thinking she's so invincible.

Of course this is all speculation and I'm just stating how I'd do it and what I hope ends up happening. The champion could be ghost Nappa for all we know. Oh shit, did I just stumble upon Shade's true identity?

[Guzam]

Amaria says after beating her in the Reshiram path, and I quote "Now go. I set you free. Both you and her. And if anything happens to me, Know that I will finally be at peace." No implication of ever wanting to see you again or get stronger at all.

 

Bennett and Laura were a couple back when Reborn league was going on which is one of the few reasons why some believe the two will both be Elite 4 members. Not only that, a current popular theory going around is that, now that all the gemstones are back in their rightful owners hands, and those rightful owners all happen to be Elite 4 members (Anna definitely is, let's not kid ourselves here) those 5 will be in the elite. I say 5 because as we know, the Sapphire Bracelets plural means you've got two, and it just so happens they're in the possession of a couple. These factors have lead some people to believe the E4 will actually be the E5 and consist of El presumably after a change of heart upon seeing Solaris fall from grace, Anna, Heather and more likely than not, a double battle against Laura and Bennett together.

 

As for the champ, still too fuzzy for me to say if there will even be one at all. We're sure as hell going to have a climatic final showdown with Lin, but I somehow doubt it'll be anywhere near the Elite 4/5's whereabouts. That said, I am inclined to believe we'll have champion battles akin to Sun and Moon where friends and foes from all throughout our journey come to try and take the spot from us. That or no one even tries and we just get to sit on our throne and look cool all day after completing the postgame.

[Abyssreaper99]

7 hours ago, Gheist said:

Why wouldn't Amaria make sense? If I remember correctly, she promises to get stronger and battle you again (or something to that effect) after you beat her on the Reshiram path. I'd probably put her as the champion over an E4 member but both could work. And not having a substitute water leader would be the least of Reborn's problems at this point with Ame dead and all.

Not sure what you mean by Laura "being confirmed" unless you're talking about Ame saying something outside of the game since anything could happen in the story at this point. Bennett seems like he wants to give her the spot back but maybe El or Lin will do something so that he won't be able to quit. Again your choices could decide whether you will battle Laura or Bennett on the E4 run.

Adrienn and Victoria are currently taking Ame's place for running the league (administrator-wise). They would be the ones who are in charge of the league but I could see El blackmailing Bennett. Also they wouldn't allow a leader to quit just to get stronger as Adrienn has already done so much to restore Reborn that xe wouldn't want to the to start falling apart like Reborn City did. I could see Amaria maybe taking a short break to recover from traumatic experiences she's had but she seems the sort to keep herself busy with stuff to help cope. As for Laura confirmed (E18 spoilers in here):

Spoiler

Bennett admits to Laura what he's done and says he wants to try to get her spot back as an apology. 

 

[Gheist]

19 hours ago, Guzam said:

I say 5 because as we know, the Sapphire Bracelets plural means you've got two, and it just so happens they're in the possession of a couple. These factors have lead some people to believe the E4 will actually be the E5 and consist of El presumably after a change of heart upon seeing Solaris fall from grace, Anna, Heather and more likely than not, a double battle against Laura and Bennett together.

The double battle thing would be cringey as fuck in my opinion but it is very interesting that the keys have all fallen back into the hands of E4 members. I guess in that case it should just be Laura but that would make the entire Bennett joining the E4 thing kinda pointless so I hope I'm right that your choices change who you get to battle.

But if there's no champion battle, that would be the most anticlimactic thing I've seen in my lifetime. After all this time we spent waiting there damn well better be one even if it doesn't live up to expectations. I could literally not think of a worse thing that could happen to Reborn other than there being no champion battle. And by all means it should be Lin since she's the only one qualified other than a current E4 member.

As for Amaria I will have to replay that part at some point but for some reason I recall her saying something about wanting to battle again. Maybe I'm completely wrong and I imagined it but I'll set that one aside for now.

 

13 hours ago, Abyssreaper99 said:

Adrienn and Victoria are currently taking Ame's place for running the league (administrator-wise). They would be the ones who are in charge of the league but I could see El blackmailing Bennett. Also they wouldn't allow a leader to quit just to get stronger as Adrienn has already done so much to restore Reborn that xe wouldn't want to the to start falling apart like Reborn City did.

I actually don't expect Lin, Amaria or whoever the champion ends up being to ask Adrienn or Victoria for permission before battling you. If they have the skill and power to back it up that's all that really matters. Lin could just waltz in after the E4 battle and declare that she's the rightful champion because she beat Ame so you have to battle her for the spot. It doesn't matter whether anybody else acknowledges it or not as long as you agree to battle.

 

As for Bennett, I know he promised to give the E4 spot back but it looks like he might have to keep playing his role in El/Meteor/Lin's plans if he can't stop Zero from giving his report. That means you might still end up battling him in some scenario and then perhaps Laura in another one.

 

[Abyssreaper99]

5 minutes ago, Gheist said:

I actually don't expect Lin, Amaria or whoever the champion ends up being to ask Adrienn or Victoria for permission before battling you. If they have the skill and power to back it up that's all that really matters. Lin could just waltz in after the E4 battle and declare that she's the rightful champion because she beat Ame so you have to battle her for the spot. It doesn't matter whether anybody else acknowledges it or not as long as you agree to battle.

I was talking about you saying Amaria being a member of the E4 in Reshiram path in terms of permission from Adrienn or Victoria, not Champion. I can see Lin pulling that "I beat Ame so I'm champion" move

[Guest Relinquished]

On 8/29/2018 at 8:44 PM, Lord Drakyle said:

Pretty sure Ame never liked having her character in the game in the first place, i doubt she would bring the character back from the dead as for the theory:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I believe if Cain, the real one, is in the void and manages to escape with Luna's help we don't know how many badges he has but we can assume he still challenged gyms and probably by the time we reach the Elite 4 will have also become eligible to challenge the Elite 4, i suspect it will follow the route of us being the Champion facing our first challenger being Cain, though since we know that from what Eve told us in Calcenon there is a PULSE built for Arceus and we know the New World field exists we may very well find ourselves on that field facing off against Lin who wants to demonstrate that even the official champion who beat the Reborn League challenge is unable to defeat her, just so she can crush the hope of anyone who thinks you can stop her, just so she can savor in that victory and the torment caused or it might be Arceus would be unable to be controlled unless she proves to it she is superior to you, pretty much gotta earn the right to control it rather than just gather some keys, this could also tie into the scene we saw in Shade's Gym which might be after defeating Lin as the Champion, Arceus destroys her.

 

True enough, alas... She even removed her in-game sprite... After watering it down, too.

[Maqqy]

Spoiler

This might be a little far-fetched but, if Lin is not the champion and the game completely pulls into a surprising turn, the champion might turn out to be that girlie named “Euphie”.