[Spoiler] E18 honest thoughts and Lore wise questions

[Razoff]

Howdy, first of all: In this post, i'm NOT bashing the devs and their work, they put a lot of effort into it and i clearly understand that and respect their choices, what im about to say is only FAIR CRITICISM, im giving my honest opinion about this episode wether its good or bad.

 

Spoiler

 So,being in vacation for a while, i came back and saw the ep18 release. After 6 months (i think...) of waiting, i was like "yay ! lets go !" downloaded it, and finished in a night. So, in the glass treatement center, i struggled for 4 hours, bc im really stoopid, to figure out the puzzle ( great job amethyst). Then comes the fight against pulse hypno, well actually it was a fight against 4 gym leaders and a rival in a row, i was like woah nice. They were not very challenging because my team was adapted and other healing stuff that came handy. then comes the event at agathe city and hardy's gym, after all of that i was hyped as fuck " lets go smash that barrier at calceneon im behind you man ! " i come out of the gym, and here comes the "this conclude this epsisode 18 of reborn + the troll from amethyst herself" i was like, oh that's all, welp... Now at the beginning i was thinking 6 months for a gym and a solaris fight ? that's odd, i know that the devs were off for a time so it took a long just for that, but after reading the article about USUM content, and other fixes, i understood. This episode felt empty for me, it was giving me hype but it felt down, it was the night so when i was in the void/my dream/ or that thing created by hypno pulse, and the dialogues kept moving on, i felt asleep and woke up after 3 hours, it was a big fight for a big big talk after. The hardy's gym was merely a challenge, because of wide guard, the weak rock type, and the fact that i one iron-headed his mega aerodactyl (main threat) with my escavalier. but the good part was that this episode enlightened alot of my suspicions about the lore, and created new questions, but im sad that Bennett went back on the good side because i found his reconversion fitting his character and the interactions with EL were good. so from now SPOILER WARNING,IF YOU HAVENT FINISHED PREVIOUS SIDE QUESTS DO NOT READ THIS EVEN THO ITS ONLY THEORIES : so apparently, with some side quests it says that the journey we are playing is another timeline, because in the previous one, Fern was the hero and meteor has accomplished their goals so Anna wished another timeline and shade appeared to save us if we were in danger of death, that happened when we were in the  void(i think ?) created by gardevoir when he pull us back in the real world. Then comes lin, apparently she is a robot created by terra that makes sense also because the two were very close together, and young lin who we never saw yet, but remember sigmund said when he saw lin that he already met her before. he is talking about that young lin, so i think one day or another we will fight her, she might be the reborn league master since Ame is decapitated, and we also saw if i remember correctly on one of the shade's TV a picture when the robot lin (adult) explodes. and also in the WTC when shade tells us if i remember correctly that 2 persons wont die or something like that, and i have the suspicion about Noel, he is going to be part of meteor or the bad side because when Radomus found his children again ( i didnt doubt for a second because Anna acts weird just like him) Noel is not part of his father trip, and he feels rejected and maybe jealousy is growing in him but only time will tell us. then the ciel or samson choice, i didnt gave blake the ring and i didnt have taka on my side in the desert after the WTC events but i bet ciel is taken away if taka is killed by titania or if you give the ring to blake. and ofc... WHEN WILL WE FIGHT A PULSE ARCEUS ?! IM HYPED AF BOIII.

 

FINAL WORDS: Huge shoutout to the reborn team for their work you guys are amazing i mean it ! but this episode was lacking of story content for me, but now that we have more "pokemon version" content it should be good, i read in a post that the ep 19 would come in February maximum, i doubt that because even tho we have all pokemon related content now, post game+E4+Saphira+Meteor ending, thats a lot of story wise to do and if they take 6 months to release just a gym and 2 events so the 19 will take at least 6 more months, and probably a 20th episode will be released for all of this post game content ( suggestion: i want an event where you can go out with one of the characters pleaaaaasee, im not a rapist or loli con i swear, i just love going out with fictional girls characters)  but maybe not i dont know that schedule of you guys, so what are you thoughts on this episode ? can you enlighten me more about the lore ? go ahead folks !

P.S:  sorry for the grammar or english mistakes, that's not my primary language.

 

 

[wcv]

Spoiler

Said before, this episode had about the same amount of content as 17 in terms of stuff going on.

 

Episode 17 felt bigger because there was a big empty desert to wander through, while the new areas this time around was a lot more compact. Also, did you go and do all the side-quests? Because the longest sidequest in the game is in Agate City. And the reward is amazing for completing it. Also the new area of the grand hall, the Sandy quests, etc.

 

[Razoff]

Spoiler

Not yet, because I feel that side quests should be post game and not before, but since reborn need lifetime and make us wait for more story related content I understand 

 

[Swampellow]

10 minutes ago, Nightzer said:

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Not yet, because I feel that side quests should be post game and not before, but since reborn need lifetime and make us wait for more story related content I understand 

 

Spoiler

There are a ton of side quests in reborn, with plenty of them having been in far before e18 (such as the Magikarp one you are meant to start at the beginning of the game), or the Mega Ring one, which technically spans the entire game but concludes in e17 content.

 

[wcv]

5 hours ago, Nightzer said:

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Not yet, because I feel that side quests should be post game and not before, but since reborn need lifetime and make us wait for more story related content I understand 

 

Uh...why? The side-quests are built into the game at the point they are for a reason.

[Dragon116]

And sidequests give extra lore. Like the one that Marcello made that horrible evil puzzle that I appreciate him for and wish he never made.

 

What were we talking about again?

[Razoff]

Well I don't really want argue more about side quests, every body has his own opinion about it 

Spoiler

We were talking about the ep 18 thoughts and eventually solve some lore mystery 

 

[Zander]

I honestly completely forgot about the two timelines and Anna's prediction and stuff. I mean we only get the timeline indication on doing a side quest where we get access to a lady with a crystal orb who predicts our future. There's absolutely no reference to it in the main story. Now I understand that it could be kept as a secret reveal and only those who played hard enough would get some glimpse of it but it would make more sense in the game to hint it in the actual story. Builds more hype too.

[Egzample]

Spoiler

I'm quite satisfied with this episode, maybe the battle for Agate and the chase in there could be a little bit more intense and epic/dramatic (you know, an ambush or so, some bridge exploding, one or two walls torn down, this kind of michaelbay-ish stuff).

I'm concerned only about the direction of Lin's development, like, she turns out to be some kind of a god? Pulling ''dead'' characters and non-existent artifacts (this battery under the water, wtf was that?) out of her ass. Like, rly, if she can make the stuff she wants appear like that, she could just drag us wherever she wants and use us for whatever reason she needs us.
I'd like it much more if she was ''only'' extremely strong and skilled trainer, not doing some Thanos-like shit with snapping her fingers, bang, people and mons appear out of the blue. The only explanation I see for now is, she has control over Arceus or Arceus works with her in order to free him (young Arceus - baby Lin playing togheter?).

 

[Azeria]

Spoiler

51 minutes ago, Egzample said:

I'm quite satisfied with this episode, maybe the battle for Agate and the chase in there could be a little bit more intense and epic/dramatic (you know, an ambush or so, some bridge exploding, one or two walls torn down, this kind of michaelbay-ish stuff).

I'm concerned only about the direction of Lin's development, like, she turns out to be some kind of a god? Pulling ''dead'' characters and non-existent artifacts (this battery under the water, wtf was that?) out of her ass. Like, rly, if she can make the stuff she wants appear like that, she could just drag us wherever she wants and use us for whatever reason she needs us.
I'd like it much more if she was ''only'' extremely strong and skilled trainer, not doing some Thanos-like shit with snapping her fingers, bang, people and mons appear out of the blue. The only explanation I see for now is, she has control over Arceus or Arceus works with her in order to free him (young Arceus - baby Lin playing togheter?).

 

I actually quite liked the battle for Agate, since it was basically meant to build up to an expected fight with Lin. You stroll in, toss aside every Meteor Mook in your way. Then only halfway into the city, you fight Solaris, the dude you've basically been aiming to surpass since Pyrous, and at this point not even he can stop you. Given that you fight him right in the middle of the city and that Lin walks off right before this, you start thinking that he was just the mini boss, meant to build to a fight with Lin.

 

and then it doesn't happen.

 

I like it as a subversion of expectations.

 

Unfortunately it really doesn't do much for Lin as a character, who I find incredibly boring compared to practically every other Meteor character.

 

 

[Zander]

1 hour ago, Egzample said:

non-existent artifacts (this battery under the

water, wtf was that?) out of her ass.

I think she might have had a key or something that makes the object appear. She has studied the lore of the place after all. It's like how Cyrus knew to open the distortion world maybe. But not so flashy.

[The Swordsman]

1 hour ago, Egzample said:

I'm quite satisfied with this episode, maybe the battle for Agate and the chase in there could be a little bit more intense and epic/dramatic (you know, an ambush or so, some bridge exploding, one or two walls torn down, this kind of michaelbay-ish stuff).

I'm concerned only about the direction of Lin's development, like, she turns out to be some kind of a god? Pulling ''dead'' characters and non-existent artifacts (this battery under the water, wtf was that?) out of her ass. Like, rly, if she can make the stuff she wants appear like that, she could just drag us wherever she wants and use us for whatever reason she needs us.
I'd like it much more if she was ''only'' extremely strong and skilled trainer, not doing some Thanos-like shit with snapping her fingers, bang, people and mons appear out of the blue. The only explanation I see for now is, she has control over Arceus or Arceus works with her in order to free him (young Arceus - baby Lin playing togheter?).

I had the same problem with Lin but Tacos had a really good explanation that I'll quote here,
 

Spoiler

 

Looks familiar, doesn't it?  Lin doesn't create something out of nothing if you ask me.  Agate City is essentially built atop what was once Agate Village in Orre, where the Relic Stone used to preside, which is the object Lin needed to power the ArcPulse.  If anything, there was some time distortion on Lin's behalf and she reverted time to when the Relic Stone was still there.

 

 

[LNH2304]

10 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

I had the same problem with Lin but Tacos had a really good explanation that I'll quote here,
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Looks familiar, doesn't it?  Lin doesn't create something out of nothing if you ask me.  Agate City is essentially built atop what was once Agate Village in Orre, where the Relic Stone used to preside, which is the object Lin needed to power the ArcPulse.  If anything, there was some time distortion on Lin's behalf and she reverted time to when the Relic Stone was still there.

 

 

 

Spoiler

So that means the Reborn region is actually Orre in the near future after all?

 

[Commander]

Spoiler

I only skimmed but in terms of lore, E17 and E18 have in total more lore than pretty much the other episodes combined. The issue people might see is that it is hard to process especially if you aren't familiar with the characters or a veteran with background info on the league. It's not needed but really helps understanding the story. Another issue is people judge and criticize a section for being too short when A) it's the longest story segment we have gotten with one of the bigger segments of exploration, B) It's got more trainer battles then average, and C) People are judging a part of the game treating it like it should be 17 episodes in length when the length is perfectly fine. It's a continued trend which people never meet their expectations since they expect something practically impossible. It takes years to build a game and the best rule of thumb is "an hour playtime is a month's worth of work"

 

Now I'm going to try and explain Miss Direction's prophecy since people are making a huge assumption. They assumed this happened in the past when, in fact, it was said it was a future where the player didn't exist. It also did happen already. The popular take on this is that Miss Direction was lying this was yet to come and this is events in the past before a reset happened introducing the player. I have a little bit better theory which does line up a lot more with everything a little bit better. I'm going to use World 1 and World 2 to better explain this.

 

So let's take the butterfly effect and pretend the player doesn't exist. This world also does not have a Nostra nor a Shade. We also don't know if a Lin existed so how world the plot turn out. The important plot point would be that the Earthquakes happened before the train explosion...I think. We'll get to that soon. We do have a pretty good idea of the ending being that Pulse Arceus created the new world aka World 2. World 2 would be the story that the fortune teller told but the important detail is no earthquakes. The most important detail is that the story ends with the earthquakes swallowing everything in which Anna makes a wish and somehow we're back to World 1 with the player being there (we can't assume they were created for this purpose and may have pulled the plot of World 1 to the end) along with two other characters: Nostra and Shade aka the Taciturn Woman. Everyone else was caught up in the reset.

 

The player was most likely created to stop whatever the Pulse Arceus caused which likely is tied to the earthquakes. The earthquakes are one of the few unexplained things in the story and Reborn is built over the Cit with Obsidia being the closest. Doesn't matter. There's a certain NPC that mention they have a sense of Deju Vu and that everything they saw happened once before this reality is someone's imagination. Very peculiar dialogue which means everything that happened pretty much is kind of confirmed that happened before and characters might have deju vu. I believe Fern is one of those characters. Taka may be another one aware which could be why he needed to be axed off. Confused? So are most of us. We have most of the pieces but we can't quite put the puzzle together due to a few questions: Who is Nostra? Who is Zena? Who is the other meteor? 

 

[The Swordsman]

Spoiler

Does the player character have to be created? The train that we all start in has all of the PCs in it but all of them die except us. Could it be that we died originally as well?

 

[wcv]

47 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Does the player character have to be created? The train that we all start in has all of the PCs in it but all of them die except us. Could it be that we died originally as well?

 

The prophecy said we didn't exist.

[The Swordsman]

3 minutes ago, wcv said:

The prophecy said we didn't exist. 

Spoiler

Then this is probably the thing I don't like most about the plot then, IMO the PC should just be a veteran trainer that wanted to try out the Reborn League, so that player themselves can come up with their own backstory.

 

[Zander]

4 hours ago, Commander said:

So let's take the butterfly effect and pretend the player doesn't exist. This world also does not have a Nostra nor a Shade. We also don't know if a Lin existed so how world the plot turn out. The important plot point would be that the Earthquakes happened before the train explosion...I think. We'll get to that soon. We do have a pretty good idea of the ending being that Pulse Arceus created the new world aka World 2. World 2 would be the story that the fortune teller told but the important detail is no earthquakes. The most important detail is that the story ends with the earthquakes swallowing everything in which Anna makes a wish and somehow we're back to World 1 with the player being there (we can't assume they were created for this purpose and may have pulled the plot of World 1 to the end) along with two other characters: Nostra and Shade aka the Taciturn Woman. Everyone else was caught up in the reset.

Half of this explanation can be understood from the fortune teller. What about the other half where you know about the wish and player existing and stuff? Where is this said in the game or side quest?

[Azeria]

2 hours ago, The Swordsman said:

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Then this is probably the thing I don't like most about the plot then, IMO the PC should just be a veteran trainer that wanted to try out the Reborn League, so that player themselves can come up with their own backstory.

 

Spoiler

I mean in essence, -you- are. Just that in previous timelines, you just ended up dying on the train here.

 

[The Swordsman]

8 minutes ago, Azeria said:

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I mean in essence, -you- are. Just that in previous timelines, you just ended up dying on the train here.

 

Spoiler

That was the situation I was guessing was the case, my confusion came from wcv, who said we didn't exist at all until this timeline. Its nice to get a staff answer on this, thank you.

 

[Juice]

So I'm new to the forum and new to getting this far into the story. This is my first full playthrough I've been really confused with this whole 

 

Reshiram path and Zekrom path thing. 

 

I do remember obviously the scene with Reshiram. But can someone just please TLDR/ELI5 the whole "path" thing? Is this due to my actions? Is this something that hasn't "happened" yet?

 

 

[The Swordsman]

11 minutes ago, Juice said:

So I'm new to the forum and new to getting this far into the story. This is my first full playthrough I've been really confused with this whole 

 

 

  Hide contents

Reshiram path and Zekrom path thing. 

 

 

I do remember obviously the scene with Reshiram. But can someone just please TLDR/ELI5 the whole "path" thing? Is this due to my actions? Is this something that hasn't "happened" yet?

 

 

 

Spoiler

So do you remember when Taka wanted you to battle him? Depending on your choice you either get the Reshiram path (you didn't fight him) or the Zeckrom path (where you did fight him.)

 

[wcv]

5 hours ago, The Swordsman said:

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That was the situation I was guessing was the case, my confusion came from wcv, who said we didn't exist at all until this timeline. Its nice to get a staff answer on this, thank you.

 

Spoiler

The story's not done yet, so no one knows the implications of the prophecy save Amethyst, but the woman said was that the timeline she saw as one you where you literally don't exist. Not one where you died, not one where you didn't go to Reborn. One where you don't exist.

 

Now is it possible you died? Sure, without Shade (who also doesn't exist according to a lot of theories) you're dead on the train. As is Ame most likely. But that's not what was actually said.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by wcv

[Egzample]

Spoiler

 

20 hours ago, The Swordsman said:

I had the same problem with Lin but Tacos had a really good explanation that I'll quote here,
 

  Hide contents

 

Looks familiar, doesn't it?  Lin doesn't create something out of nothing if you ask me.  Agate City is essentially built atop what was once Agate Village in Orre, where the Relic Stone used to preside, which is the object Lin needed to power the ArcPulse.  If anything, there was some time distortion on Lin's behalf and she reverted time to when the Relic Stone was still there.

 

 

 

Alright, thx for the explanation, this means she didn't pull it completely out of her a*s, but I'm still not convinced if I like where it is going - this doesn't make her any less mixed Dialgia-Palkia-Giratina-Celebi-Arceus omnipotent smells-like-Mary-Sue character, thus making her this:

21 hours ago, Azeria said:

Unfortunately it really doesn't do much for Lin as a character, who I find incredibly boring compared to practically every other Meteor character.

I really do hope the explanation of her powers and the backstory will kick me out of my shoes.

 

20 hours ago, Azeria said:

I actually quite liked the battle for Agate, since it was basically meant to build up to an expected fight with Lin. You stroll in, toss aside every Meteor Mook in your way. Then only halfway into the city, you fight Solaris, the dude you've basically been aiming to surpass since Pyrous, and at this point not even he can stop you. Given that you fight him right in the middle of the city and that Lin walks off right before this, you start thinking that he was just the mini boss, meant to build to a fight with Lin.

I, too, liked it, it was cool - by now we are widely recognized in Reborn, so we go through Meteors like Vader goes through rebels at the ending of SW Stories: Rogue 1, so it would be nice to finally see the full effects of us being the wrecking ball, tough I understand the limits of RPG Maker.

 

 

 

 

[Juice]

12 hours ago, The Swordsman said:

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So do you remember when Taka wanted you to battle him? Depending on your choice you either get the Reshiram path (you didn't fight him) or the Zeckrom path (where you did fight him.)

 

perfect, thank you!