Episode 17 re...

[Zander]

I had to play episode 17 content again because reasons. This time I had perfect IV bred team of with perfect EVs. So here's the things that changed from the original episode 17.

 

1) Pokemon cries. The cries have changed for some reason. Some are pretty normal. Others....well episode 18 ruined the cry of my favorite pokemon cry, ie Krookodile. The guitar sounded so dope. Now it doesn't even sound like a guitar. I will forever complain about this topic until it's cry is normal again. That was a too good of a cry to be ruined. Hopefully Kriketune is not ruined too.

 

2) Not a change but just pointing it out. What's the point in giving the dragon's den field hand out in the fairytale field? I was looking for the topic that said fire types have dragon added to the typing but it wasn't there. Then I realized that it was the wrong note. How is anybody supposed to know without battling beforehand that fire moves don't work on fairies? This should be changed.

 

3) Again not a change but wtf. Titania's klefki is fucking broken. Klefki has only two weaknesses. Fire and Ground. And it's immune to fire on the field. The strongest ground move freely available is freaking bulldoze or stomping tantrum if you bother enough. That is not fair. You have to specifically catch a pokemon with earthquake otherwise that thing will setup calm minds and sweep half of your team with draining kiss which is boosted on the field. I had a full team of perfect IV pokemon with perfect EVs and that thing was the most troubling. You would think Titania's Aeigislash would be the most tough because it gets a free +3 attack but shadow sneak is not that tough to deal with and you can outspeed it a lot of times. But Klefki though...UNFAIR.

 

4) Amaria got nerfed? She had a Rotom Wash earlier. Now it's a Starmie? It's such an easy pokemon to kill and doesn't even have a focus sash. It's weak to grass, dark, bug, electric and ghost. Plus anything can kill it if it hits hard enough. Rotom Wash has only one weakness which is grass so it's much more effective light screen setup. Maybe people found her to be too tough. Her Ludicolo is still as ridiculous as ever because it outspeeds everything and gets boosted scald which is devastating. I had to use a jolly unburden Hawlucha to actually outspeed it. I guess focus sash would work too.

 

5) Trainers in Grand Hall are used for training the AI?. This is the conclusion I came too. It's Sunday 2 am for me when I trained my team from level 80 to level 88. There was one trainer with a male Meowstic. Now I don't know how she was doing it but every single time I decided to train a pokemon, she set up the correct hazard. I gave the lucky egg to Metagross and went in. Her Meowstic setup reflect on my special Greninja. Every single time for at least 8 battles. Then I give the lucky egg to Greninja. Voila she's now setting up Light Screen. Yeah and for another 7 to 8 battles. And no it's not a cycle. I tried switching the lucky egg and she switched her screen accordingly. I gave the lucky egg to Volcarona. She now completely abandons setting up a screen and uses Thunder Wave so my Quiver Dance is useless. Then sets up Light Screen. I'm telling you the AI is watching and learning. Scary.

 

And that's all I noticed as a change. Thanks for reading.

[Autumn Zephyr]

1) For the record, the cries changing isn't something Ame came up with on the fly- all the older pokemons' cries got redone when the franchise moved to the 3DS (yes, even the practically brand new ones), and it simply took Reborn about half a decade to catch up to the main series on that front. Believe me, I don't like it either (alas, poor staraptor, I knew ye well), but that's something to blame GF for.

 

2) I'd imagine it's to help you out in the following fight, since it is given to you right before you face the Legendary Dragon. Reshiram and zekrom aren't easy foes if you aren't already prepared for them (which you probably won't be the first time through), and having a Field Effect you've never seen before that further strengthens their power (especially Reshiram's) exacerbates the issue even more. Having the Readout on hand makes it so you don't have to rely on trial and error to figure out the Dragon's Den's quirks, which may help you figure out a way to beat them with your current team- I know it helped me out considerably.

 

3) Ignoring the fact that klefki's annoying in general, it's worth noting that Fire Types are no better in that fight than many other Types- the only pokemon on Titania's team that remain's weak to Fire attacks is her sandslash, and her excadrill balances that advantage out rather nicely. Similarly, you're missing a pretty significant detail in terms of wearing down this klefki and its friggin' twice-boosted Draining Kiss: klefki has lower Special Defense than Physical, and Earth Power is a Tutor Move, which works well with Special Attackers like omastar, gastrodon, probopass, and even sunflora. And even if it weren't an MT, camerupt gets it anyway- between having a STAB attack that uses camerupt's higher offensive stat aiming at it's lower defensive one, resisting both of its STABs in turn, and being immune to Thunder Wave, it seems to me that the lava camel may very well be one of the best counters available by that point in the game, despite the afore-mentioned nerf to Fire Types in this fight. Also, palossand's a thing.

 

4) Maybe it's in response to the reports that she loses outright to extreme stall? Seems like a rather weak explanation to me, and it's not like starmie adds much to the equation- it's Speed doesn't matter on a Field where non-Water's are slower than molasses, and said trait makes Analytic almost completely useless on it. And the rotom was only in her Singles team, so it isn't around for Spotlight shenanigans, either...

 

5) That's a tad curious. The AI is clearly smart enough to frustrate you, yet seems incompetent enough to not use Trick Room properly? Seems legit. 

[Youmu9]

The Fairy Tale Field is available before fighting Adrienn. The blind girl gives it to you after answering all her questions again. The field has a chance to appear during that gym battle as well.

[Zander]

3 hours ago, Autumn Zephyr said:

1) For the record, the cries changing isn't something Ame came up with on the fly- all the older pokemons' cries got redone when the franchise moved to the 3DS (yes, even the practically brand new ones), and it simply took Reborn about half a decade to catch up to the main series on that front. Believe me, I don't like it either (alas, poor staraptor, I knew ye well), but that's something to blame GF for.

 

2) I'd imagine it's to help you out in the following fight, since it is given to you right before you face the Legendary Dragon. Reshiram and zekrom aren't easy foes if you aren't already prepared for them (which you probably won't be the first time through), and having a Field Effect you've never seen before that further strengthens their power (especially Reshiram's) exacerbates the issue even more. Having the Readout on hand makes it so you don't have to rely on trial and error to figure out the Dragon's Den's quirks, which may help you figure out a way to beat them with your current team- I know it helped me out considerably.

 

3) Ignoring the fact that klefki's annoying in general, it's worth noting that Fire Types are no better in that fight than many other Types- the only pokemon on Titania's team that remain's weak to Fire attacks is her sandslash, and her excadrill balances that advantage out rather nicely. Similarly, you're missing a pretty significant detail in terms of wearing down this klefki and its friggin' twice-boosted Draining Kiss: klefki has lower Special Defense than Physical, and Earth Power is a Tutor Move, which works well with Special Attackers like omastar, gastrodon, probopass, and even sunflora. And even if it weren't an MT, camerupt gets it anyway- between having a STAB attack that uses camerupt's higher offensive stat aiming at it's lower defensive one, resisting both of its STABs in turn, and being immune to Thunder Wave, it seems to me that the lava camel may very well be one of the best counters available by that point in the game, despite the afore-mentioned nerf to Fire Types in this fight. Also, palossand's a thing.

 

4) Maybe it's in response to the reports that she loses outright to extreme stall? Seems like a rather weak explanation to me, and it's not like starmie adds much to the equation- it's Speed doesn't matter on a Field where non-Water's are slower than molasses, and said trait makes Analytic almost completely useless on it. And the rotom was only in her Singles team, so it isn't around for Spotlight shenanigans, either...

 

5) That's a tad curious. The AI is clearly smart enough to frustrate you, yet seems incompetent enough to not use Trick Room properly? Seems legit. 

 

1) Great the 3ds ruined Krookodile. And yeah Staraptor too.

 

2) Both Zekrom and Reshiram are weak against ground and dragon. Wouldn't take much to spam a ground move. The gym battle is way tougher and should be prioritized.

 

3) Bruh it SPAMS Calm Mind. Do you know how bad that is? You can't kill it either way unless you have enough power which only Earthquake carries. And if the Sandslash sets up Aurora Veil then good luck trying to even dent the Klefki. It's too op.

 

4) Stall itself is too op. I wouldn't be surprised if an Eviolite Chancey walls her entire team barring Swampert.

 

5) What trick room? I only battled against screens.

[Autumn Zephyr]

1) And sableye. Oh, and parasect sounds like its actually going through death throes when defeated now. It's... a bit of a mess, really.

 

2) Um, Reshiram OHKO'd my Ground Type, so I didn't even have that option. It was also smart enough to start charging Solar Beam when I tried to Destiny Bond it, so that flubbed out as well. I swear, I had more trouble facing the Truth than I did the Guardian Exile herself! (Not to say that I didn't struggle against Titania, of course)

 

3) And Earth Power can drop the target's Sp. Def. if it fails to net the kill. It's kind not really any more of an issue than the rest of her team if you know what you're doing (and have enough luck on your side, of course).

 

4) Something, something, wishiwashi eats eggs for breakfast... I've had a run of Amaria completely ruined by that thing revealing that Earthquake works Underwater. Never mind the fact that half her team carries Dive to move the Field about to her liking, which is notably a twice-boosted Physical attack- I highly doubt that a chansey would be able to solo her, to be honest. 

 

%) I recall Ame saying at one point that part of the reason the E18 Leader doesn't use Trick Room like their IRL counterpart did is that the AI didn't work with it. Having seen a Trick Room-oriented leader in Rejuvenation literally just have their setter sit around for five rounds while a Speed Boost pokemon went to town on the other side of the field, I'm kinda inclined to agree with this sentiment.

[Egzample]

15 hours ago, Zander said:

Plus anything can kill it if it hits hard enough.

Hey, that applies to basically any match up, doesn't it?

[Zander]

26 minutes ago, Egzample said:

Hey, that applies to basically any match up, doesn't it?

Not really. If you want to kill a Garchomp you need to use a dragon or ice move. Nothing else okos it. If a Pokémon has huge physical bulk then you can't kill it with a physical move period. Same on special side. Goodra tanks ice beam all the time due to it's amazing special defense. A Volcarona will never die to an air slash from a Mega Charizard Y if it used Quiver Dance because it's just too bulky on the special defense.

 

Starmie has nothing. Only high speed and decent special attack. Anything that touches it does over half damage so ANYTHING strong will guarantee kill it.

[wcv]

16 hours ago, Zander said:

You have to specifically catch a pokemon with earthquake otherwise that thing will setup calm minds and sweep half of your team with draining kiss which is boosted on the field.

...so you have to modify your team in accordance with what the gym leader uses. You know, just like your supposed to with all of them. Too bad there isn't an area crawling with powerful ground types literally right before you get to Titania who could help. Truly ground types can't be found anywhere. Certainly not in the big desert crawling with Excadrill and Hippowdown. Nope, not a one.

 

Sorry if that comes across as jerkish, but come on. You should be bringing one of those to the battle anyway since you KNOW its a steel type leader. Empoleon represents a bigger danger than Klefki does.

Edited September 2, 2018 by wcv

[Zander]

1 minute ago, wcv said:

...so you have to modify your team in accordance with what the gym leader uses. You know, just like your supposed to with all of them. Too bad there isn't an area crawling with powerful ground types literally right before you get to Titania who could help. Truly ground types can't be found anywhere. Certainly not in the big desert crawling with Excadrill and Hippowdown. Nope, not a one.

You don't need to modify your team for any other gym leader because there's always a move available that works. In Titania's case the move is Earthquake which is locked so you are forced to catch a new Pokémon. That's something that's never happened before.

[Swampellow]

I have beaten Titania twice without any use of ground moves. Her Scizor still loses to Fire Type moves and fighting type moves still chunk all of her mons quite well. Not to mention Sparkling Aria chunks pretty much every one of her Pokemon. There are plenty of moves that beat her without needing to change up your team, it’s moreso just a matter of thinking about it instead of focusing on one thing that you *think* you need.

 

(Not to mention I never use IVd or EVd mons in reborn and I still don’t have that much trouble)

[Zander]

Tell me how you dealt with her Excadrill, Klefki and Aeigislash.

[Azeria]

17 hours ago, Zander said:

I had to play episode 17 content again because reasons. This time I had perfect IV bred team of with perfect EVs. So here's the things that changed from the original episode 17.

 

4) Amaria got nerfed? She had a Rotom Wash earlier. Now it's a Starmie? It's such an easy pokemon to kill and doesn't even have a focus sash. It's weak to grass, dark, bug, electric and ghost. Plus anything can kill it if it hits hard enough. Rotom Wash has only one weakness which is grass so it's much more effective light screen setup. Maybe people found her to be too tough. Her Ludicolo is still as ridiculous as ever because it outspeeds everything and gets boosted scald which is devastating. I had to use a jolly unburden Hawlucha to actually outspeed it. I guess focus sash would work too. 

 

Quote

Maybe people found her to be too tough.

Spoiler

 

Tfw Amaria is generally considered to be an absolute joke of a fight.

 

As for Titania, never really had -too- much trouble with Klefki. For me the only threats have always been Sandslash and Scizor, but that's by virtue of my teambuilding really hating fast stuff or strong priority. Her team is solid but there's counters available right before her gym if you feel like you need them.

[Swampellow]

7 minutes ago, Zander said:

Tell me how you dealt with her Excadrill, Klefki and Aeigislash.

Klefki died to sparkling Aria, Exca died to scrafty, aegis died to scrafty. The biggest threat was her Scizor but my Ninetales lived a BP before it could set up SD so it didn’t matter.

 

and don’t get me started on how Amaria lost to Primarina in both singles and doubles

[Zander]

6 minutes ago, Azeria said:

Tfw Amaria is generally considered to be an absolute joke of a fight.

Really? I thought her Ludicolo and Rotom Wash were very threatening with the high speed and screens. Other members were there just as backup but these two seemed really threatening to me.

 

5 minutes ago, Swampellow said:

Klefki died to sparkling Aria, Exca died to scrafty, aegis died to scrafty. The biggest threat was her Scizor but my Ninetales lived a BP before it could set up SD so it didn’t matter.

 

and don’t get me started on how Amaria lost to Primarina in both singles and doubles

Seems like Sparkling Aria works for everything? I don't understand how Amaria would lose to a water type if you battled her in episode 17 because volt switch rotom but maybe it has something to do with the field.

 

At least I know that life orb Greninja with surf doesn't dent the Klefki or any of Amaria's Pokémon.

[Swampellow]

Yes sparkling aria is boosted by both of the fields for the e17 leaders and Primarina is stronk and specially bulky.

 

and like I said, never EV or IV trained ever in reborn.