Would you like this change? An idea for how moves could be different in the future.

[ty_taurus]

The list of moves in Pokemon is vast and gets bigger with every generation. Some have become reliable stables in the ever-growing competitive community. Others are too weak, too situational, or just don't have the payoff to warrant taking up one of your Pokemon's four slots for moves, but what if in a future generation, more slots were added to the game for specific kinds of moves with all new effects?

 

I want to share with everyone an idea I think would breath new life into the future of Pokemon games, refreshing the battling experience and adding an exciting new dynamic that could not only make battles more fun, but also give weaker Pokemon new chances at having their own identities. These come in the form of two brand new move slots, bringing a Pokemon's move total from 4 to 6, but you can't just put any move in these two slots.

 

Moves would be separated into 3 major categories: Standard Moves, Basic Moves, and Support Moves

 

Standard Moves are the four slots of moves that we are currently familiar with. Pokemon learn these moves via levels and other methods. This list is populated by most of the moves we're already familiar with, and the way these are handle would hardly change at all.

 

Many moves in the game have low power levels and are seen as transitional moves, such as Tackle, Pound, Confusion, Water Gun, and other such moves. Generally Speaking, moves with base power of 50 or lower would be regrouped and categorized as Basic Moves.

 

Each Pokemon has 1 Basic Move in its own special slot and does not take up any of the four slots for Standard Moves. Each Pokemon only learns 1 Basic Move and does not learn any others via level up, breeding, tutors, or anything else. Each Pokemon's Basic Move is learned at Level 1. This means that every Pokemon in the game would have an offensive tool at an early level, so you don't get awkward situations where a low level Ralts can't do anything but Growl. There's not that much interesting here, but I will say that some of these may be physical, some may be special, and some may have secondary effects.

 

Pokemon like Arbok, Chimecho, and Steelix would have Wrap/Bind as a Basic Move, giving them permanent access to a trapping move that they otherwise might not have room for on their movesets. Rapidash may have Flame Charge as a Basic Move, giving her access to easier speed boosts when defeating a weakened opponent. While stronger Pokemon may have simple, raw damage Basic Moves, weaker ones could be given Basic Moves with effects that could give them a slight advantage to compensate for their weaker stats, shallower move pools, or less effective abilities. Additionally, Mimic would function as a Basic Move that transforms into your opponent's current Basic Move on switch-in. 

 

Lastly is the Support Move, a move that can't be selected and used. Support Moves act like second abilities, and can activate based on a number of criteria. Moves that are interesting, but currently aren't useful enough to either warrant a slot on a Pokemon's move pool, or the turn necessary to use them could find its way into the list of Support Moves. Some moves that have interesting potentials may also find their way here. Unlike Basic Moves, Pokemon may learn a handful of Support Moves via level or other means, but only 1 can be in your Support Move slot at a time.

 

Pokemon like Lumineon and Dewgong would have Aqua Ring as an option, immediately activating when those Pokemon switch in like built-in leftovers. Assist could be promoted to a Support Move as well, transforming into a Standard Move known by one of your other Pokemon at random every turn, constantly giving your Delcatty or Liepard a 5th Standard Move to choose from that constantly changes (or not if you use any of the current Assist gimmick teams). Copycat, like Mimic, would transform into your opponent's Support Move on Switch-in. Pyroar's unique Noble Roar would become a Support Move that activates on switch-in, giving Pyroar an intimidate-like effect. Rototiller could be buffed as a Support Move to boost the Attack and Special Attack of grounded Grass-Types every turn the user is on the field. Its accessibility to only weaker Pokemon would help balance the combo potential.

 

What do you all think about this idea? Do you think it would be new, exciting, and enhance the Pokemon experience?

[Wolfox]

I do not like this. I like the thought you put into it, but I highly doubt it would change too much. and if it did, I doubt even more that it would be for the better. firstof all, this is mostly from a competitive point of view (I assume), and GF cares not about that. What GF cares about is making an easily accesable game so more people will buy and enjoy it. adding this would do the exact opisite of streamlining the game which for an expirienced played may be interesting, but for the main target audience, newer people to the series and RPG's, it will have the oppisite effect

[Guest Relinquished]

And here i was hoping, somebody would finally suggest that Reborn and/or canon games, allow pokemon to learn moves they could learn only in previous generations (like Fissure Machop, Headbutt/Body Slam Snorlax, etc).

[ty_taurus]

@GS BALL I actually brought that up the Reborn City page.

 

@Wolfox Hmm, I wouldn't say it's from a competitive standpoint exclusively. From the designer side of things, once the new systems are in place, it actually makes it easier to continue making new Pokemon. Something the designers have to constantly keep in mind is that they need to avoid being overly repetitive with Pokemon designs. That's actually why so many Gen VII Pokemon had exclusive abilities and moves, to ensure they were at least somewhat unique over previous designs. A new system like this would add a chunk more wiggle room to Pokemon design, and could allow for a healthier design Process.

In regards to the idea attracting experienced players while detracting newcomers, I don't completely agree. I do think you're right in that it does cater more to experienced players (who I would argue are the ones who've already been supporting the product for however many years), I don't think it would necessarily turn away newcomers. I can't think of any reason why new players could look at current Pokemon and want to join, but see a new support move slot and basic move slot and suddenly turn away at the game. In fact, usually players like feeling strong and powerful, and unique effects like that would probably feel satisfying control.

 

It's also a reason to make Gen 1 Stand out more with some cool new toys, and GameFreak does love milking Gen 1's nostalgia factor.

[Wolfox]

54 minutes ago, ty_taurus said:

@GS BALL I actually brought that up the Reborn City page.

 

@Wolfox Hmm, I wouldn't say it's from a competitive standpoint exclusively. From the designer side of things, once the new systems are in place, it actually makes it easier to continue making new Pokemon. Something the designers have to constantly keep in mind is that they need to avoid being overly repetitive with Pokemon designs. That's actually why so many Gen VII Pokemon had exclusive abilities and moves, to ensure they were at least somewhat unique over previous designs. A new system like this would add a chunk more wiggle room to Pokemon design, and could allow for a healthier design Process.

In regards to the idea attracting experienced players while detracting newcomers, I don't completely agree. I do think you're right in that it does cater more to experienced players (who I would argue are the ones who've already been supporting the product for however many years), I don't think it would necessarily turn away newcomers. I can't think of any reason why new players could look at current Pokemon and want to join, but see a new support move slot and basic move slot and suddenly turn away at the game. In fact, usually players like feeling strong and powerful, and unique effects like that would probably feel satisfying control.

 

It's also a reason to make Gen 1 Stand out more with some cool new toys, and GameFreak does love milking Gen 1's nostalgia factor.

the gen 1 milking shouldn;t be encouraged tho. not at all. I would rant on that but that can wait till later

[Amphibi]

As intriguing as the idea sounds I would be opposed to it too for a couple of reasons.

 

Pokemon has been powercreeping for a while. They do give the odd few pokemon the buff they really need to be useful (eg. various stat buffs like Mantine and added abilities like Pelipper) but most often they leave Pokemon to die in obscurity. This is leading to my second reason.

 

I doubt that only Pokemon that truly need the buffs (eg. Ledian, Chimecho, Castform) would be the only ones to get them. It would be the same as Mega Evolutions, sure, some Pokemon that need them get it but fan favourites get it too. Did Pokemon like Scizor, Salamence and Metagross need mega evolutions? No, but Gamefreak knew they would appeal to the fans. My last point is more of a question than anything.

 

What moves would be weak enough to have as support and basic moves? Basic moves are fair enough, could be anything except priority moves and Rapid Spin, maybe no moves that boost stats or have a high chance of causing status. How would support moves be determined though? A lot of passive effects could be very overpowered if applied when a Pokemon is sent out. Something as simple as the effects of Growl is one of the most valued abilities in VGC battling: Intimidate. I don't think any status move stronger than Growl (so just about anything) would be very balanced if it activated on switch in. 

 

In future generations, I think buffing Pokemon's base stat total and giving them new moves/abilities would be a better idea than introducing another new concept that may skew balance more than it fixes it.

[ty_taurus]

@Amphibi

 

I wouldn't have examples like Noble Roar be the standard, just a special case for Pyroar since Noble Roar isn't worth a move slot. It's meant to be an exclusive move to help Pyroar stand out, but nothing about Pyroar is notable. Having that as a Support Move would be intended as something notably different and not the standard.

 

As for what moves would be in Support as well as some examples of who gets it...

 

Aqua Ring - Restores 1/16th Max HP every turn (Dewgong, Lumineon, Phione)

Assist - Changes to a random Standard Move known by a party member every turn (Delcatty, Liepard)

Camouflage - Changes User's type based on environment; toggle-able (Starmie, Latias, Latios)

Captivate - Lowers opponent's Special Attack 1 stage on switch-in if the opponent is of the opposite gender; genderless Pokemon are immune (Alomomola, Luvdisc)

Conversion - Changes User's type to that of the Standard Move in the first slot of their move pool; toggle-able (Porygon Family)

Conversion2 - Changes User's type to that of the Standard Move in the first slot of the opponent's move pool; toggle-able (Porygon Family)

Copycat - Becomes the opponent's Support Move on Switch In (Mr. Mime, Wigglytuff, Mimikyu)

Cotton Spore - 50% chance to lower opponent's Speed 1 stage when contact is made (Whimsicott, Ampharos, Jumpluff)

Crafty Shield - User and Allies are protected from the first status condition that they would receive by the opponent; refreshes on switch-out (Klefki, Magearna)

Dream Eater - Drains 1/16th Max HP from Sleeping opponents every turn (Hypno, Noctowl, Musharna)

Electrify - Changes the type of the Standard Move in the first slot of the opponent's move pool to Electric-Type (Helioptile Family)

Embargo - Opponents holding the same item as the User cannot use those items or receive their effects (Ignores Mega stones/ Z Crystals) (Houndoom, Weavile, Krookodile)

Fairy Lock - Opponent cannot switch-out during the first turn of when the User switches in (Klefki)

Feint - Attacking moves deal 30% damage instead of failing against protected opponents (Pikachu, Infernape, Lucario)

Flower Shield - Raises Defense of all Grass-Type Pokemon on the field 1 stage every turn (Sunflora, Florges, Comfey, Cherrim)

Focus Energy - Passively Boosts Critical Hit rate (Farfetch'd, Raticate, Fearow)

Foresight - Ignore evasion modifiers and Normal-Type moves deal neutral damage to Ghost-Type Pokemon (Noctowl, Furret, Regigigas)

Forest's Curse - Adds Grass-Type to all Pokemon on the field on switch-in; User's Grass-Type Moves Ignore Grass-Type Immunities like Leech Seed (Trevenant)

Gastro Acid - Neutralizes opponent's Support Move while the User is on the field (Arbok, Victreebel, Gastrodon)

Gear Up - Raises Attack or Special Attack 1 stage of all Electric-Type Pokemon on the field every turn (Klinklang, Magearna)

Glaciate - All Ice-Type damaging Moves cause targets Speed to drop 1 stage (Kyurem)

Gravity - Grounds Flying-Type Pokemon and Levitating Pokemon on the field (Clefable, Probopass, Dusknoir)

Grudge - Depletes the PP of the Move that KOs the User (Ninetales, Shedinja, Mismagius)

Guard Swap - All Pokemon on the field swap their own Defense Stat with their own Special Defense Stat when the User switches in (Mr. Mime, Xatu, Umbreon)

Heal Block - Pokemon on the field cannot restore HP (Celebi, Shedinja, Claydol)

Howl - Raises User's Attack 1 Stage on switch-in (Mightyena, Manectric, Exploud)

Imprison - Opponents Pokemon cannot use Standard Moves known by the user (Ninetales, Stantler, Bronzong)

Ingrain - Restores 1/16th Max HP every turn; User cannot dodge oncoming attacks (Roserade, Cacturne, Shiinotic)

Ion Deluge - Normal-Type Moves become Electric-Type (Lanturn, Electivire, Zebstrika)

Kinesis - Confused Opponents are more likely to miss Attacks (Alakazam)

Lucky Chant - Opponents cannot land Critical Hits (Clefable, Vileplume, Bellossom, Delphox)

Magic Room - Held Items on all Pokemon have no effect (Lunatone, Gothitelle, Delphox)

Magnet Rise - User Levitates for their first turn on switch-in (Magnezone, Forretress, Electrode)

Magnetic Flux - Raises Defense or Special Defense of all Electric-Type Pokemon on the field 1 stage every turn (Probopass)

Me First - User has +1 Priority on all moves during the first turn they're on the field on switch-in (Furret, Stantler, Meowstic)

Miracle Eye - Ignore enemy evasion modifiers and makes Psychic-Type attacks deal neutral damage to Dark-Type Pokemon (Xatu, Sigilyph, Beyeehem)

Mud Sport - Weakens Electric-Type attacks by 50% for 3 turns on switch-in (Kingler, Relicanth, Pyukumuku)

Nightmare - Sleeping opponents lose 1/8th max HP every turn (Gengar, Hypno, Darkrai)

Noble Roar - Lowers opponents Attack and Special Attack 1 stage on switch-in (Pyroar)

Odor Sleuth - Ignore evasion modifiers and Normal-Type moves deal neutral damage to Ghost-Type Pokemon (Arcanine, Linoone, Gumshoos)

Powder - Causes Fire-Type attacks to backfire, damaging the opponent by 25% max HP (Vivillon, Ribombee)

Psych Up - User receives any stat modifiers the opponent receives (Medicham, Spinda, Oranguru)

Quash - Opponents who haven't attacked yet, and are stuck with damaging moves will be forced to act last that turn (Alola-Persian, Honchkrow, Incineroar)

Reflect Type - User's type becomes the same as the opponent's; toggle-able (Tentacruel, Starmie, Latias)

Rototiller - Raises Attack or Special Attack of all Grass-Type Pokemon 1 stage every turn (Dugtrio, Parasect, Mudsdale)

Scary Face - Lowers opponent's Speed 1 stage on switch-in (Arbok, Ariados, Masquerain)

Smokescreen - User ignores Trapping effects (Weezing, Kingdra, Dragalgae)

Speed Swap - User swaps their Speed stat with the opponent's (Alola-Raichu)

Spite - 30% chance of lowering the PP of an opponent's most recently used move by 2-5 at the end of each turn (Dunsparce, Banette, Spiritomb)

Sweet Scent - Lowers Evasion by 1 stage of all opponent's Pokemon each turn (Vileplume, Aromatisse, Tsareena)

Tearful Look - 30% chance of lowering Attack or Special Attack by 1 stage after receiving damage; lowered stat is determined by damage category (Sudowoodo, Wishiwashi, Dedenne)

Torment - Opponents cannot use the same move twice in a row (Shiftry, Krookodile, Bisharp)

Trick-or-Treat - Adds Ghost-Type to all Pokemon on the field on switch-in (Gourgeist)

Water Sport - Weakens Fire-Type attacks by 50% for 3 turns on switch-in (Masquerain, Ludicolo, Floatzel)

 

Some of these would definitely have reduced accessibility, and there'd be room to add new ones too.

 

 

 

 

[Zander]

It must have taken so long to type that out damn. The idea is kinda good but all Pokémon in OU and UU shouldn't have access to any of these abilities. They're in those tiers because they are already great Pokémon and hence don't need a further boost. Lower tier Pokémon could use the boost and it would be excellent for balancing the game. Seriously.

 

But......why does Charizard have two megas again? Because it's popular. Not because it would be competitively viable. Why did Raquaza get a mega evolution? Because it's cool and not because it was supposed to compete with Arceus and Mewtwo. Similarly these well thought out strategies would never appeal to gamefreak because nobody thinks of using these Pokémon in the first place. It's just making less used Pokémon even more confusing and thus making people avoid it even more. Nintendo doesn't bother about it's existing fans otherwise gen 4 remakes would have been a thing a long time ago so it's pretty much useless think about this stuff.

Good attempt though.