Could Pokemon games function without randomness?

[Waynolt]

Or would they become a nightmarish mess with incredibly broken or useless things?

To be honest, I don't like how randomness affects the outcome of battles.
I don't like that sometimes paralyzing the enemy outright removes them from the fight, while some other times it mildly incoveniences them.
I don't like that sometimes my Stench Skuntank plays as if it had no ability, while some other times it is a broken olympus mon that can kill anything it outspeeds without getting even a single scratch.

I don't like it because, through it, the victory feels unearned and cheap and the loss feels unfair.

The problem is that randomness is also integral to the gameplay, especially in battles.
Thus my question is: do you think that the game could function without the RNG?

Let's say that a paralyzed mon, instead of having a 25% chance of skipping a turn+halved speed, was guaranteed to be slowed for 2 turns, then skip 1, and then be slowed for 1 more before starting again: would this be ok?
Or would this be too powerful?
Or would this make it pointless to paralyze the enemy?

[Wolfox]

for online battles there should be an option to turn it off. but in the regular game keep it

[Zargerth]

Perhaps it could work, but I for one find joy and moments of frustration in how unpredictable battles can get with random elements in play.

[Vanitas]

it wouldnt work!

[Maqqy]

For me personally I like how luck based the competitive side of Pokemon is. The unpredictable side is what makes it exciting and thrilling.

[Norm]

Lol make a mod!

 

It might work theoretically, but RNG has been staple in RPGs since the the conception of D&D, it's something that most are acclimated to and expect at this point. Besides, Pokemon is a game big on numbers anyways, and I think that removing the random occurrences would make the reliance on stats worse.

[Ojama Yellow]

it would mean making all moves either 0% or 100% accuracy, and the removal of everything that can buff or debuff accuracy or evasion.

it would mean the removal of the primary effect of paralysis.

it would mean getting rid of all moves with secondary effects or at least getting rid of the secondary effect, or making said effects have a 100% trigger rate.

it would mean getting rid of abilities like snow cloak or poison point. also serene grace and sheer force since they have no use anymore.

it would mean getting rid of damage rolls.

 

im sure theres much I missed.

 

basically without rng youre playing an entirely different game.

[Guest Relinquished]

Well, that randomness could be much less random, in earlier generations... Paralyze and confusion were almost foolproof crippling techniques. Psychics in gen 1 were THE OP OGs. And stuff like that.

 

Constant tweaking, nerfing, stats-boosting etc, do have an impact on both gameplay and feel, however... I feel that ability issue you mention, for pokemon like Gengar (Levitate), Talonflame and others.

 

In current gen, aye, it feels big randomness to do battle. Even a 95% accuracy move, can miss 3 times in a row... While Stone Edge can hit 5 times in a row... And stuff like that.

 

Pokemon wouldn't be pokemon without that randomness, though.

[Lorisaur]

It is possible to build a pokemon game WITHOUT randomness and I once did it with a friend on paper. Now I'm tired, but I'll edit the post in few days to explain all details. It was fun to play to be honest, but it was not really pokemon as we know it. However, it was completely NOT random exept for one single thing: speed ties.

[Gheist]

Well just today I got 6-0ed by the Mamoswine in Hardy's gym (one of the random trainers inside) because I missed a CLEAN 7 moves that should have been 100% accurate because of it's stupid evasion boost from the seed. So yea, in game it's pretty shitty and I'm just gonna restart the battle if this bullshit happens anyway. I've literally never won a battle in game due to luck but I often reset because of first turn crit/frz/flinches and shit because it's just annoying.

 

In competitive though it's completely different since it can make the difference between a win and loss and it's absolutely hilarious when you Frz a Hippowdon with Ice punch Mega-Lopunny for the win or flinch a Landorus to death with Iron head Excadrill. Oh and of course 1v1ing a Magnezone with Ferro because of a tripple protect. It's these moments that make competitive interesting in my opinion. Bonus points if you predict the hax (or even intentionally go for it) before it happens. Another important aspect that's less talked about are min/max rolls. Those can also affect the entire outcome of a battle even if they aren't as flashy or as noticeable as crits.

 

As for your idea, they did actually implement some checks to make the game less random like making sleep last for 3 turns max. This way you know at least when you'll wake up at the latest.

There's also stuff like sleep clause and OHKO clause and swagger banning to make people rely a little less on luck and more on strategy. I'd definitely be open to some more checks but specifically regarding the paralysis one, that sounds pretty similar to truant and we already saw how badly that can be abused with shadow tag + protect (or substitute). 

 

[Waynolt]

Well, online battles could only be affected if both players had the same modified game, else it would just desync/crash.
Also, online battles are handled by a separate set of scripts, and thus changing single-player battles wouldn't necessarily alter the multiplayer experience.

@Wolfox @Zargerth @Vanitas @Maqqy You like it and that's fine, nobody is going to take it away from you... at most it would be made into a mod, which would make it entirely optional.   

@Norm @Kabs @GS BALL I agree of course: it would be a very different game without RNG, simply due to how it affects almost everything.
I'd make a mod about this (it's essentially how every other mod was made: someone wanted something that wasn't in the game already), but before that there are 2 issues that need to be solved: "what to change the RNG into?" and "would that change make the game worse instead of better?".

 

@Gheist Is it an abuse though? I mean, isn't it more appropriate to call it a strategy, since you have to set it up and it counters something from the other team?

@Lorisaur I'd be interested in knowing how did you make it not random.

[Gheist]

8 minutes ago, Waynolt said:

Is it an abuse though? I mean, isn't it more appropriate to call it a strategy, since you have to set it up and it counters something from the other team?

If you kill the Durant, it is an impossible to beat strategy unless you do it by using volt switch or something. Now it's of course an extremely niche strategy so it's easy to spot it out (same if you see random lvl 1 Pokemon on an opponents team) but I don't think making it widely more available by having a status move do it is a good idea.

[Dreamy]

I think it would be boring without randomness. However, more weighting similar to consecutive protects failing could potentially be interesting. e.g when paralyzed, a turn of full para slightly lowers the chance of it happening again next turn, and if it doesn't happen the chance of it slightly increases next turn.

[Zander]

Randomness is part of the game and part of the fun! No matter how much people complain about it, you will definitely know what move I'm talking about when I say focus miss. It's all part of the fun and players can bond together by complaining about such stuff too.

 

And suppose an Excadrill is facing a Magearna. Both opponents know each other's move sets. Magearna has focus blast while Excadrill is going to use Earthquake. If focus blast had 100% accuracy then the guy with the Excadrill would forfeit right there because Magearna can take one Earthquake and he knows the focus blast is coming. The only reason to keep playing is hoping that focus blast misses. The tension and excitement of that moment of who will win can only be created by RNG because no player has control on the outcome of the accuracy. And the winner will feel so lucky which adds even more joy to his victory. The loser can go complain about his luck with other players who will also join him because it's become a meme at this point.

 

It's all part of the game and I wouldn't want it removed.

[Tomahawk]

Randomness is the spice of life!

 

Being serious, there will always be some sort of uncertainty (and thus randomness) in a game. Games without RNG are generally more strategy based and can often get boring quickly, as everything is clear cut. Uncertainty also brings a sense of accomplishment, and it models real life behaviour! So i would reckon keep it. Of course being too random is another problem...

[Waynolt]

@Tomahawk De gustibus... for example I like chess, and don't think it is boring.

@Zander  You like it and that's fine, nobody is going to take it away from you... at most it would be made into a mod, which would make it entirely optional.

 

@DreamblitzX Good idea!
(Now that you mention it, afaik a semi-random system like the one you're talking about is already being used in other games, with decent results.)

@Gheist Sorry but I still can't see how is that a problem worse than a luck-based sweep...
(Btw please note that I'm only referring to single-player games: online battles could only be affected by a mod removing RNG if both players had the same modified game, and thus agreed to use the changed rules, else it would just desync/crash)

[Tomahawk]

In chess there is a factor of randomness of how your opponent is going to play (well at least when I play). Sure sometimes the moves your opponent is going to make become predictable but that occurs in online too. I get your point however that things its a matter of taste (had to search up what de gustibus meant). Its just that to the wide audience uncertainty brings excitement. And whoever makes the pokemon games wants to appeal to the widest audience. However in private games (like you are suggesting) you can do whatever floats your boat.

[robin1]

RNG is a necessary aspect but some part of it need to be toned down. Rely on Serene Grace + Air Slash or using Hypnosis: fair game, you can disable many pokemons with it but one miss and you go down. Focus Blast has horrible accuracy: fair game, it provide every Psychic an out to Dark and insanely powerful so it should be inaccurate otherwise Psychic will be so OP. Draco Meteor or Leaf Storm has only 90% accuracy is not fair game, it doesn't provide more coverage, come with huge draw back is essentially a trump card to do a desperate move or catching opponent off guard so why should it miss during important time.