Ladder News and Introducing Interviews

[Amethyst]

Liiike, hi again~! It's valley-ame, totally back for another exciting news post, yaa-- *shot*

Okay, no, actually I have to put on a srs faic for a little bit. Our last season of ladder competition ended a couple weeks ago, and we had to post-pone verifying the winners because we couldn't the logs for a little bit and blahdeblahdeblah

Okay, so, we got the logs.

And I'm happy to say that I can't prove that anyone was boosting this time. Now, whether that's because no one did, which I'm going to put on my rose-coloured glasses and believe, or because we lost all of the battle logs from april-onwards thanks to a technical error and therefore wouldn't see if anyone did, I can't say. That error has been resolved going forward; it was a silent plug-in update to PO and noone knew about it until we needed it and blahblah it happened and shouldn't happen again OKAY point is nobody was boosting as far as we can prove.

Which is good.

However.

A different issue that's been going on for a much longer period of time was brought to my attention. That is, ladder sniping.

Sniping works like so:

Suppose there are two players on the ladder, a 1400 player and a 1300 player. In a perfect universe, the 1400 player will always beat the 1300 player. However, because of the disparity in rating, the 1400 player will gain fewer points and the 1300 player will lose fewer points in that scenario, than if the ratings were closer. This is what keeps the ladder balanced, and fair.

Sniping is when, for instance, that 1400 player gets on an alt, ranked 1200, and fights that 1300 player. In a perfect universe, because the 1200-ranked alt is actually a 1400 player, the 1300 player will still lose. However, because the 1300 player is losing to an alt with a lower ranking, that player loses more points, significantly decreasing their ladder score.

This is problematic on its own because it puts an artificial directed stress and unfair disadvantage onto the targeted player. It becomes even more problematic when not just one person is doing, but an entire group, and even more so still when the group as a whole selects specific targets to snipe and cooperates to do so.

And unfortunately, that's exactly what's been happening.

I'm going to quote Hark here:

Some people have decided it's okay to intentionally cheat the ladder after it was made ABUNDANTLY CLEAR last season that sort of behavior was NOT acceptable.

And this time it's not only for personal gain-- they're ruining the experience and points of other people! Sometimes "just business" to ensure their own ranking, and other times, to be just plain spiteful. This is worse than boosting. They're doing it in an intentional, organized fashion and that's incredibly disrespectful to other people on the ladder, Reborn, staff especially, and the entire battling hemisphere on Reborn.

The bottom-line is that this is absolutely not okay.

Regrettably, I've learned this was taking place even during our first competitions too, so now even sans boosting I'm forced to reevaluate the merit of our top-placers. But that aside, let's focus on what it means for this season.

After discussing it with the staff, we've decided that we cannot in good consciousness honor the top-placers of this season who were involved in this activity, and unfortunately, the majority of the people who would have won places, were indeed involved. For the sake of avoiding drama, I do not intend to list the names of the guilty- and I would appreciate it if the other users who know would display the same tact. They already know who they are, so there's little point.

We cannot honor the top places by listed rank alone, however, unlike with boosting, which affects only one's personal score, it's not so easy to just skip the guilty party and go to the next on the list. Because of the general warp that sniping has had on the ladder's competitors as a whole, I am sorry to say, we have no option but to annul this season's competition entirely.

For that I am sorry. I realise that's disappointing, and I myself am very disappointed that this has even happened in the first place. I'm further aggrieved that we do not have a long term solution to reliably detect this activity. And as such, I'm further sorry to say that we cannot hold ladder competitions- at least in this format- again in the foreseeable future. It would be folly to do so until we have a reliable way to either detect or prohibit this behavior.

So that's a thing. Sorry to say it, guys.

IN OTHER LESS DISAPPOINTING NEWS

Well, I'm giving Edge the second half of this post, so here he is:

HEEEEEEEYE, EDGE-KUN here to announce something a bit more positive!

I've been noticing a lack of leader interest and interaction this season, and while I wasn't directly part of season 1, I know that there was much more back then.

In order to attempt to bridge this gap between our members and the leaders I've decided to start some Leader Interviews!

I've got a few questions in mind already, but I'd love to hear questions you all have for the leaders in general, OR specific leaders when I get to them. I was thinking maybe a leader every week or two depending on how busy they are. Our interviews will be done by our one, our only GOSSIP GARDEVOIR! We realize that she's been kinda...over the top recently, and as such we're going to put some metaphorical shackles on her, which will (hopefully) reflect in her general actions as well. SO YEAH. Send me your questions, I'd prefer if you PM on the forums, but you can leave a reply here as well if you wish~

[Pocky]

Coooooool. Makes me feel like battling aya again.... not :c

[Joker]

Shame about the ladder. As for leader interviews. Meh. Doesn't even effect me in the slightest. I guess it could be a fun thing for champs in the making though. May it be successful and stuff.

[Gardevoir]

We realize that she's been kinda...over the top recently, and as such we're going to put some metaphorical shackles on her, which will (hopefully) reflect in her general actions as well.

Excuse you? I've already been working on that! Was the rankshift post not good enough?

As for the rest! I look forward to being everyone's medium, so get those questions ready! ^^

[Noivy]

The guilty party brought this upon themselves. I must also say thanks. Thanks for making me angry. Thanks for corrupting the competition. Thanks for being cheaters.

In other words, thanks for nothing you scum sucking maggots. Actually, I can think of a worse insult. However, I shall digress.

Leader interviews woo! \o/

[Kamina]

aw what a tragedy

hopefully next season those people wont snipe anymore

also leader interviews look interesting but they are one- dimensional :|

[Yuki]

there is no next season, they took that away from everyone

[diana]

I um

Leader interviews! \o/

[NeoDarklight]

Whelp. Some people can be total douchebags. Since I don't play PO due to me not understanding how it works, it doesn't affect me directly, but still, some people really are douchebags. Those people are unworthy of being called fans of the games.

[Maelstrom]

As if having any alts laddering at all isn't sniping in a softcore sort of way.

[Eternal Edge]

C'MON GUYS. LEADER INTERVIEWS. GIMME QUESTIONS Y'ALL GOT.

And yes, you have been improving GG <3

[Huggyboo]

I blame Xiph for all the ladder nonsense >>

[kingtrace]

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion for the benefit of allowing ladder seasons to continue, what if we limited the competition by:

• Requiring sign-ups so we can see who intends to compete.
• Requiring that they use a brand new alt, they must enter with an alt with 1000 points
• Requiring that competitors only use the alt they signed up with
• Not allowing name changes during the competition except under special, auth approved circumstances
• Anyone who would break these rules would be instantly DQ'd

Not that this is a flawless idea, but I would hope it would heavily limit sniping to the point where a ladder season is again possible.

[Godot]

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion for the benefit of allowing ladder seasons to continue, what if we limited the competition by:

• Requiring sign-ups so we can see who intends to compete.
• Requiring that they use a brand new alt, they must enter with an alt with 1000 points
• Requiring that competitors only use the alt they signed up with
• Not allowing name changes during the competition except under special, auth approved circumstances
• Anyone who would break these rules would be instantly DQ'd

Not that this is a flawless idea, but I would hope it would heavily limit sniping to the point where a ladder season is again possible.

1. We do have a sign up process. Its called registering for the Forums

2. That doesn't stop the fact that sniping can and will happen...

I honestly don't see how that will solve anything...

3. Um... why? We can IP check them and figure out who they are if we don't already know.

I am also not sure how this will actually solve our problem...

4. This is honestly not a good idea, people name change for multiple reasons...

Why would we take the ability to change one's name for 2-3 months, just because they signed up for a competition...

5. We only D/Q people who are confirmed for Boosting... but I don't see how any of these changes will actually change anything...

These aren't things we can force upon people.

[kingtrace]

1. We do have a sign up process. Its called registering for the Forums

2. That doesn't stop the fact that sniping can and will happen...

I honestly don't see how that will solve anything...

3. Um... why? We can IP check them and figure out who they are if we don't already know.

I am also not sure how this will actually solve our problem...

4. This is honestly not a good idea, people name change for multiple reasons...

Why would we take the ability to change one's name for 2-3 months, just because they signed up for a competition...

5. We only D/Q people who are confirmed for Boosting... but I don't see how any of these changes will actually change anything...

These aren't things we can force upon people.

1. This one is simply for the sake of organization, making it easy to tell who intends to compete and who doesn't. Also, this is necessary for any of the rest of my idea to work, since we need to know the names of the users and what alt they intend to use.

2. If the ladder would reset at the start of the season, I suppose this becomes moot. It was purely for the sake of the clean slate.

3. Not allowing non-registered alts to ladder as a whole basically eliminates sniping as a whole, as it would become incredibly difficult to maintain a high rank AND snipe. If you choose to lower your rank to snipe, then you can't just switch back to a high ranked name, you're stuck where you are until you work your way back up. It's just cumbersome and no longer worth the effort.

4. This is an issue, but honestly, this is pretty much mandatory to prevent sniping. It's between being stuck with the same name for a few months or not having a ladder competition period. If the length of time is the issue, then we could always shorten the season to accommodate.

5. Well, obviously that would have to change, yes. And I think I did a fine job explaining how and what these would change in this post.

Edited July 9, 2013 by kingtrace

[Amethyst]

I appreciate your suggestions Kingtrace,

Not allowing non-registered alts to ladder as a whole basically eliminates sniping as a whole, as it would become incredibly difficult to maintain a high rank AND snipe.

In particular, this is the crux of our best bet at maintaining the ladder. Unfortunately, we don't have a method to prohibit people, especially randoms, from laddering. I'm unsure if such a feature exists in PO.

Now that I think about it, most randoms will just ladder OU- perhaps we could create a distinct ladder tier for competitions and monitor that.

[Godot]

^ that

We have randoms who come on, get #1 on the ladder, leave and never come back... ever...

Programing a separate tier for ladder comps?

SWIIIMS! NYUNYU!!!

Is that possible?

[Maelstrom]

You know a tier that isn't used? All the clear sky ones.

Of course that means the vast majority of the top ranked teams would have to change a great deal to handle the clear sky part. Surely such skilled battlers can handle that... pffft.

I'm sure they could make a copy of the current, regular tiers, rename them as something else and use those alongside the overt OU tier, etc. Really, the only people who would know to go in and manually change their team tiers would be forum members who knew what to look for.

[AZKnight]

'Tis a great shame that there was cheating going on for the competition. How anyone could believe that winning a title means something if they earned it through nefarious means is beyond me. Especially with a setting like this where the point is to be part of a community and to have fun. If people only wish to compete and to use tricks in order to win, they can go try their luck on the main server group.

I am super excited about the interviews. Once upon a time I wanted to do them as I saw a huge decline in the interaction between Trainers and Leaders. But I got lazy. Good to know others were equally disappointed in this absence of substance. I do hope the interviews turn out well and provide both an entertaining and learning experience. I do have my doubts though because no offence to Gardevoir, but I have never much enjoyed her style because of how...ditzy it can be.

Edited July 9, 2013 by AZKnight

[kingtrace]

A completely separate tier for ladder competitions sounds like an excellent plan. That way, the regular OU ladder can continue being relatively free and sniping can be controlled as much as possible for the sake of competition.

[Kamina]

seems like a good idea @kingtrace

Although not many in the forums actually ladder so there would only be a small pool of competitors.

like 10 people max

[kingtrace]

Well, again, whatever risks we're taking have to be weighed against the alternative, which is no ladder competitions at all. A small number of competitors is just another negative of this whole debacle, and I really wish I didn't have to come up with crazy rules to fathom this working, but sniping is very hard to get rid of without lots of stuff. T.T Stupid snipers.

[Godot]

seems like a good idea @kingtrace

Although not many in the forums actually ladder so there would only be a small pool of competitors.

like 10 people max

This is my chief complaint with a separate tier...

Also keep in mind that our community is diverse, we have members from all over the world that participate.

If we limit the pool of players, the members will not receive a legit Ladder experience...

[kingtrace]

This is my chief complaint with a separate tier...

Also keep in mind that our community is diverse, we have members from all over the world that participate.

If we limit the pool of players, the members will not receive a legit Ladder experience...

It's unfortunate that limiting the player pool on the separate tier will make it more difficult for some people to participate, but this is in comparison to no ladder at all. Desperate times and all that.

[Shanco]

I'd be all for a new tier, but not before we figure out a total solution to find all the cheaters; that's the root of the problem and, as it's been said numerous times, there isn't a 100% foolproof way to make sure it's totally fair for everyone. Let's work on that first.