Rant about Shofu's playthrough (WARNING Long text and Salt incoming)

[GGLL]

  So this is coming way out of the left field, but is anyone else really frustrated with Shofu after the latest episode Pokemon Reborn ? I went ahead to try and watch his latest video, but once I saw his comments and what everyone else says, I just gave up. His logic for why the game's story is bad and doesn't make any sense is not only baffling, it's also false and makes it apparent that he has clearly misjudged the nature of the episodes. First of all, he complains about an hour long cutscene that's supposed to explain character backstories and hint at later events near the end of the game. The point where all key exposition takes place (especially for lore heavy games like reborn and metal gear),that usually takes about 10 minutes to 1 whooping hour . Then he talks about how it's impossible to get invested with characters he practically just met because the episodes are released infrequently and that  the scene shouldn't be long because no one will remember all the characters that exist, thus they can't get invested. Then he complains again saying that nothing makes sense, even though he skipped the dialogue (incorrectly, mind you, since he was pressing the A button and not the skip-the-dialogue-option X button, which should have been mentioned in the read me section before the you boot the game and would have been much faster). 

 There is so much wrong with everything above. Since I already gave my reason for why some of his arguments are not good, I'll move to the one that I haven't. I want  to clear something up, since everyone in the comment section seems to have it all wrong, the game's "episodes" are not really episodes,at least  in the sense that a game like The Walking Dead uses that term. They are only called episodes for the thematic flavor. In reality, reborn's episodes are more like demos for the real game. That's because, apart from the fact that you are not required to download all of the episodes individually for you to play through the story, each episode not only adds content that continues the story, it also changes, adds or removes elements from already existing content, that may even reach as far back as episode 1. Field effects, new event pokemon, changes to event pokemon, changes to already established battles and even to the story at some points, new game features with each passing update are all examples of this. Such a process is very similiar, if not out right the same, to the way a game goes through it's development circles, where stuff might change, things maybe added or even removed for the sake of a more polished game and a better overall experience. The game isn't meant to be played episode by episode, else we would all have to download every single one of them separately, which doesn't happen since every release gives you the full game along with the added story and gameplay content. The reason the game is released episode by episode is because :

1. It is much more convenient for Amethyst to release it  that way since she can get better feedback about the game and make the according changes, instead of having to release the entire game, having it be full of bugs and unpolished gameplay, and then have to start from scratch to fix it, instead of doing it little by little like she does now. 
2. Amethyst was not actually planning to make it this far. She herself has admitted that reborn had started at a whim, to test out her skills with RPGMaker and that she wasn't actually expecting to stick with it this far, hence why the game was released as an episode, namely episode 1. It is only later that she decided to turn reborn from a short-lived side project to whatever it is now. The game being released like this is a result of what Amethyst originally intended to do with it and she  ended up sticking with it.
3. Reborn was, up until recently, supposed to line up with the newer generations of pokemon, as far as pokemon availability was concerned. Likely that meant that Amethyst may often had to hold back on release date both for the episodes and the whole game so that she could integrate the newer pokemon and mechanics into it.

 In short, the game is now released part by part and not all at once, but it's not meant to be experienced like this by the time it is completed. That's why  calling that part of the game in EP18 bad writing because of the game is released in episodes and they take a long time to be completed is just wrong, no matter how you slice it. 

 What personally gets me, though, is the fact that the developers haven't claimed that it is completed, yet Shofu still insists that it is their fault for the above reasons. This is gonna be really offensive but, newsflash, that is not the developers fault, that is your  fault and your problem. If you as the player decide to start a game that you know is incomplete and doesn't seem to be even close to the end, then you run the risk of forgeting what has happened down the line between the last time you played and the next time you start from where you left of from the new release. Whether or not you will eventually remember or you decide to do your research on the events that took place is the player's, and only the player's, choice. If you don't want to do that, that is perfectly acceptable. Don't be suprised if you get lost, though, and if you do, then you have no one to blame but yourself, since it was your choice, as the player, to continue like so. 

 I got carried away and wrote alot so I'll try to summarise the above. Shofu's arguments are incorrect because an hour long cutscene that you can skip in an RPG isn't uncommon, he got lost and confused because he kept skipping the text (not even the right way to skip ahead), the game's episodes are more like glorified demos and it is not meant to (exclusively at least) be played release by release, especially once the final episode is released, so holding that against it is plain wrong. 

 Feel free to argue or correct me if I'm wrong and I'll try to respond to the best of my abilities.

[luis]

Just checked that video.

He can't take any criticism and blames the game for not remembering  the story. 

Although it can be funny watching someone frustrated with reborn for over an hour, it gets old really quickly.

[LeoYT]

Someone finally put it into words and nobody in his comment section points it out

this episode made me lose all credibility for Shofu because it was his choice to keep playing and not wait for the game to finish

If you really have trouble understanding the story or want a recap, Look up Lord Wallace on YT and theres an hour long video recapping up to E17

He doesn't realize how much hard work goes into these kinds of games

No wonder I sent this man to the shadow realm

[Abyssreaper99]

It's funny how people complain so much about a free game yet don't do so as much with paid games created by 'professional' companies that are a bag of shit. 

 

Them blaming Ame for Shofu' s lack of memory is completely wrong and they shouldn't do so

[Lord Drakyle]

10 minutes ago, Abyssreaper99 said:

It's funny how people complain so much about a free game yet don't do so as much with paid games created by 'professional' companies that are a bag of shit. 

 

Them blaming Ame for Shofu' s lack of memory is completely wrong and they shouldn't do so

perhaps we the community should go to his comment section and point this out to him?

[Lucky98]

Yeah I just saw that comment section. Some of the comments are pure toxic

[luis]

19 minutes ago, Lord Drakyle said:

perhaps we the community should go to his comment section and point this out to him?

done

[uberle]

...........

Ok

I am annoyed at this for several reasons mainly being that the void is possibly my favorite part of the game

I loved it showing back stories of characters like Aya and Cain

The inner thoughts of others like Julia

Also Fern, but f*ck Fern

It also gives a hint to Shade's true identity which I went crazy over

And then Shofu claims that because he doesn't remember some characters the whole game sucks

I can understand not remembering characters, but don't blame the game and devs because of your memory 

[Maqqy]

I like Shofu but yes, I agree with everything you said. I just think that Shofu is the kind of guy that doesn’t really get invested on long narratives and complex characters and storylines. He just judges the game on that current playthrough without taking a second to backtrack. Once something is hard, he’s automatically annoyed.

[DemICE]

Like uploader, like subscribers. 

Those people were more sad cases than shofu

[Filthy Casual]

Most of what's been said here pretty much sums it up. I'll just add two things:

 

1) I think a big part of it is shofu's fatigue of Pokemon in general. It'll be great when Smash Bros Ultimate comes out, as he can take a break from Pokemon for a bit, and hopefully come back to a more fresh experience.

 

2) In regards to the toxic comments; I took a look at the views, and I think the negativity being spread there has affected the viewership. Modern Reborn videos are far less viewed than the older ones (even if part of that is because it takes a while to create episodes).

[Dex]

I kind of get where he's coming from with the void, the stuff being shown their is interesting but I just wish it wasn't happening all at once. But everything else, yeah the way Shofu plays, he really should have waited until the full game is finished. Probably be easier on everyone involved.

 

On the comments, like it's not like the Reborn (and other fan game) community's aren't open to criticism. See everything Commander does, but most of the comments are around the level of this game is garbage. It was like that for the major events of Rejuvenation Version 10 as well, but at least the comments haven't blown into all out war like they were for that playthrough. 

 

 

[Norm]

Honesetly I agree with most of Shofu's points that he made. At the end of the day, it's his opinion and experience, and I think that the efforts that people make to deflect criticism away from reborn are without merit. Reborn being episodic and free doesn't mean it is somehow exempt from criticism. You can be more lenient or positive about the overall experience becaues it's free, but that doesn't stop Reborn from having very glaring flaws, and it has a lot. Things like excessive dialogue and way too many characters are very common criticisms that Reborn faces among many other things. It really isn't Shofu or the audience's job to do homework every hiatus in order to even understand the events and sequences. It's generally not a good sign if you need a wiki binge or a review video to understand what is going on. 

 

Sure, Shofu could pay more attention to the plot, but he isn't really as invested in the plot as most people here, and I can blame for not being so. I think most people would be confused when a black hole sends you to some magical omniscient Limbo. I'm not Stephen Hawking or anything, but I don't think that's how Black Holes work. Not to mention the cavalcade of characters in this Episode alone. Half of the characters haven't been relevant or even mentioned in the plot for years in Shofu time, and that's honestly more of a story problem as opposed to the viewers. There are probably over 20 characters at this point that revolve in and out of the story in no discernible pattern whatsoever, of course it's going to be confusing when Hat Guy, who hasn't showed up in the story proper for something like 6 or 7 episodes, shows up and literally starts spewing exposition for 20 minutes. I guess at the end of the day, I'm honestly baffled that people are accusing Shofu of "not taking criticism" in a thread that was essentially made to complain about the man's personal opinion of the game.

 

 

[Commander]

First off, I actually do not really disagree with anything Shofu said and can see his point. Part of his rants are things I felt similar to how Rejuv went. If you guys really want me to break it down I can but he's been playing this game for as long as I have which is longer than most of this community. Some of it also is frustration and you have to understand he had to reedit the video to add that voiceover. Yeah I'll admit I have a similar situation and I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it.

 

There is one thing that he said that I feel was out of line which was "the only reason I'm playing this game is because of the fans." It contradicts the start of his episode 15 segment which confuses me. He doesn't feel as miserable as Rising Pheonix and if you really are playing a game just for the views or money...that is kind of sad. I'll admit playing Rejuv is pretty draining on me especially these segments I worked on but the only reason I continue is that I ironically enjoy the log parts. If he really hates it that much he should hiatus it for a while or just stop imo. There's other projects that could need more attention. Hell,maybe throw something his way to relieve his stress that's not Pokemon. Sometimes you've got to play other things before jumping back.

 

Now this is just an ugly argument on both sides as both put in a lot of work and both honestly at least deserve the respect for putting in the work. I'd rather not have this thread locked or removed but try to remember to be respectful to others including those not members of this site. They can easily read these messages as well. I'll go and read the comments but I doubt I'll find anything as bad as you claim it to be. Mother of Arceus...people are actually nicer and supporting game more compared to before. Oh how will I be able to handle people being nice. Seriously, his comment section is a lot better than it was. Get over it every time someone posts something negative. Hell, I'm proud less than half are like that.

 

Edit: I realized you were talking about a different video mid way through but my points still kind of stand. Yes I was reading comments on the void episode.

[luis]

4 minutes ago, Norm said:

 I guess at the end of the day, I'm honestly baffled that people are accusing Shofu of "not taking criticism" in a thread that was essentially made to complain about the man's personal opinion of the game.

I honestly don't understand your comment.

What does creating a thread in this forum has to do with shofu's ability to handling criticism? 

And I was referring to his replies on his youtube page, with comments like "I won't take blame for any of that, this game is dog shit"

[Tringus]

I'll be honest, I haven't exactly watched all of Shofu's Reborn playthrough.  I watched up until about when Corey died, and just stopped for some reason.  However, I actually decided to watch this one just to hear him read the dialogue and react, annnnnd...  He didn't even do that.  All he did was rage at how much dialogue there was.  Even when he got out of the void, he was STILL skipping the dialogue, which was what I wanted to hear.

 

Now I haven't actively played the game as much as I would like to, but I still have a damn good memory of all the characters and their background.  I do understand the point in Shofu's case where the game would just get seem too confusing if you haven't played in a long time (I struggle with that with Metroid, Kingdom Hearts, etc.), but it really wouldn't hurt to backtrack just a little bit to get the general idea of what's going on.  "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?!" while constantly skipping the dialogue certainly does not help in learning what's going on with the story.

 

What really, really threw me off is that he said "I'm doing it for the fans!".  I've seen a lot of YouTubers cry out that they're doing certain things just for their fans, and a lot of them aren't entirely honest with that.  Most of the time, it is about the money.  Money is how YouTubers make a living, after all.  I don't even play the game for money, I just write my playthrough on my own time because I WANT to.  Yes, I've been taking long breaks here and there, but even I'm still invested in the game, even when I'm not writing and playing through the game.  If he's doing it for the fans, he really should listen, and maybe not skip all of the good stuff.

 

Now I'm not trying to be disrespectful in anyway.  I like Shofu, I think he's a cool dude, and I like his content.  If I didn't like him, I would have unsubscribed.  Honestly, the I don't watch Shofu that much anymore is because I'm just too busy with life.  However, I also really care about Reborn, and yes, I know Shofu rages from time to time, but nobody has to go biting each other's heads off over it (Sorry, not sorry), it's just a game at the end of the day.

[iDunno]

Honestly, I'm feeling a lot of secondhand embarrassment from the Reborn's fanbase response to his recent video. Do people really need to get so worked up and defensive because this one person doesn't enjoy the game? Did this subject really merit an entire thread? God forbid any of you stumble into Something Awful's main LP of this game. The stress will give you an aneurysm.

 

I don't watch a lot of Shofu videos, I basically just watched the most recent 1/3 (or so) of his Reborn LP, but I know what to expect when I watch those videos: he'll be constantly confused at everything that's going on, rage about the mechanics, and make comments about the game's atmosphere/"edge". In a portion of the game where the player is forced to endure a 40 minute long cutscene (a good chunk of which is just fluff from Radomus, Serra, Luna, Bennett and Gardevoir) after an exhausting 6x30 battle, what did you expect his reaction to be? "wow, this is so insightful!"? 

 

Hell, I'm a lot more invested into the story of this game than that guy is, and even for me, it was a trying experience not to just press "X" and skip all that dialogue.

[Abyssreaper99]

I accept that the guy has issues with the game, I mean there is a  lot of stuff to remember. A lot more of my concerns is the way some of the people in his comment section have been talking. 

 

Some people have started having a go at Ame there just because Shofu is raging. The only problem I have is him not even trying to reunderstand the plot by spamming buttons and not reading properly.

 

Like with Nappy & Cos criticisms, they are raging because of broken fields (fair enough because some are busted).

 

But I get issues with some of the toxic 'fans' rather than their own criticisms

[GGLL]

  I am not frustrated about the fact that shofu doesn't like the game, I'm bothered about the fact that his logic and argument in this part doesn't hold up, while at the same time he is acting much more disrepectful towards the developers and mainly his viewers that are trying to defend the game (at least it feels like it), with nearly  everyone else following suit and bashing each other. I'm not saying that the game is perfect, it does have flaws and things that are really bothersome, even though I like it. His argument here, however, is like me playing Metal Gear Solid 1, starting at the point where the protagonist is captured, not remembering how he got there, who his allies are, who his villains are, what the general motivations are all around and instead of asking to find out, searching or just continuing on in the hopes I can either remember or just progress without caring about the story, I call the game  stupid for not reminding me everything that happened, blame Kojima, act like I'm not at fault at all while at the same time ignoring everyone else, unless they agree that the game is stupid. He has even less reason to complain like this since he doesn't care about the story and can freely skip it with the correct button. 

  Honestly, I wouldn't mind if he decided to stop playing the game. If he doesn't like it, then he doesn't like it. Doesn't mean that his logic at a certain part of the game isn't, for me at least, baffling. I can see where he is coming from with his other complaints, even if I don't agree. After all, I never once argued about whether the game is fair or not, nor did I argue that the story is spotless and doesn't have any flaws. Nothing is perfect, anyway. I just decided to call something that I find illogical just that, like how he himself can call the game garbage because he finds it unenjoyable. Yeah, I probably come across as extremely biased ( I mean, I did really like that segment of the game, unlike most it seems, and didn't mind the length of it too much), but then again, this is a rant, so maybe I'm overexaggerating. 

   Speaking of biases:

1 hour ago, Commander said:

Mother of Arceus...people are actually nicer and supporting game more compared to before. Oh how will I be able to handle people being nice. Seriously, his comment section is a lot better than it was. Get over it every time someone posts something negative. Hell, I'm proud less than half are like that.

 I don't know about you, but I got the impression that liking reborn over there had a kind of negative stigma, if the kind of comments that some of them leave is any indication over the last few videos ( even if it sometimes doesn't feel  unwarranted ). I could be exaggerating, however. Still feels kind of not pleasant seeing people calling them cancerous  

or moking them, though sometimes it is the other way around which is also bad.

17 minutes ago, iDunno said:

Honestly, I'm feeling a lot of secondhand embarrassment from the Reborn's fanbase response to his recent video. Do people really need to get so worked up and defensive because this one person doesn't enjoy the game? Did this subject really merit an entire thread? God forbid any of you stumble into Something Awful's main LP of this game. The stress will give you an aneurysm.

 I have, it was horrible, for many reasons. By the way, sorry for making you and making everyone else  feel ashamed. 

 I don't know, maybe I'm just dissapointed because I used to like his playthrough a long time ago.

[Azeria]

Js but If there is something I completely agree with him on, it's that the scene post gauntlet is unreasonable long. it's actually ridiculous lol. if you're not in the right state of mind, which is very possible given the battle before is typically frustrating for most(personally didnt have a hard time, was just awake really late)it can nearly all fly over your head.

[Abyssreaper99]

13 hours ago, iDunno said:

Honestly, I'm feeling a lot of secondhand embarrassment from the Reborn's fanbase response to his recent video. Do people really need to get so worked up and defensive because this one person doesn't enjoy the game? Did this subject really merit an entire thread? God forbid any of you stumble into Something Awful's main LP of this game. The stress will give you an aneurysm.

I just checked that link you put up. The only thing that gave me an aneurysm was that there was someone with a Trump lover pic there. A lot of other stuff were funny.

[iDunno]

10 hours ago, Abyssreaper99 said:

I just checked that link you put up. The only thing that gave me an aneurysm was that there was someone with a Trump lover pic there. A lot of other stuff were funny.

As far as I know, that "Trump Lover" pic is some forum in-joke (more than one member has that), not an actual pro-Trump propaganda.

[Foamy]

I got super pissed about Shofu's ramblings as well. Most of my complaints have been addressed by other people in this thread already, but here's what I'll add that I don't think was talked about here yet.

I honestly think that he should just end his playthrough if he isn't enjoying the game. Shofu said that he's committed to seeing his Reborn playthrough to the end for "you guys," i.e. his viewers, but he won't even be bothered to read most of the dialogue or even go slow enough through cutscenes to allow viewers to read the dialogue for themselves. So if he's going to skip all of the important plot points, insult the characters, shout about something being tedious or challenging or unreasonable just because he isn't invested in it, then why even upload these videos at all? No one's going to enjoy a secondhand experience of Reborn if it's framed with this kind of toxicity.
It's simply not his game. He's said that he doesn't care enough to remember anything that's happened, to go back and watch his previous videos to refresh his memory, to do sidequests for good items and Pokémon, so he shouldn't even continue playing. There's no point in putting out a video if he's not going to put effort into good quality, except for ad revenue.
That's why I can't take him seriously as a content creator, because he's just so stupid and unprofessional. And with his kind of mindset, I don't think anyone else should take him seriously, either.

But what's really stupid is that he goes through with it anyway. He posts a 40-minute video of himself just complaining nonstop about every single thing he encounters in the game, and of course many of his viewers like to make final conclusions about something based on the first thing they see or experience about it (in this case, a salty butthurt Youtuber who refuses to invest time in the game). This is going to cause them to spread false info and misinformed opinions, which will damage the game's reputation.
So you end up getting comments like:
"Wow I'm surprised you haven't just dumped this shrapnel coated horseshit of a game"
"This game is fucking trash"
"Amethyst is such an airhead, that's why the plot is such a mess"
"How do they expect us to remember all these edgy ass characters when each update takes like a year to come out"

[Abyssreaper99]

46 minutes ago, Foamy said:

I got super pissed about Shofu's ramblings as well. Most of my complaints have been addressed by other people in this thread already, but here's what I'll add that I don't think was talked about here yet.

I honestly think that he should just end his playthrough if he isn't enjoying the game. Shofu said that he's committed to seeing his Reborn playthrough to the end for "you guys," i.e. his viewers, but he won't even be bothered to read most of the dialogue or even go slow enough through cutscenes to allow viewers to read the dialogue for themselves. So if he's going to skip all of the important plot points, insult the characters, shout about something being tedious or challenging or unreasonable just because he isn't invested in it, then why even upload these videos at all? No one's going to enjoy a secondhand experience of Reborn if it's framed with this kind of toxicity.
It's simply not his game. He's said that he doesn't care enough to remember anything that's happened, to go back and watch his previous videos to refresh his memory, to do sidequests for good items and Pokémon, so he shouldn't even continue playing. There's no point in putting out a video if he's not going to put effort into good quality, except for ad revenue.
That's why I can't take him seriously as a content creator, because he's just so stupid and unprofessional. And with his kind of mindset, I don't think anyone else should take him seriously, either.

But what's really stupid is that he goes through with it anyway. He posts a 40-minute video of himself just complaining nonstop about every single thing he encounters in the game, and of course many of his viewers like to make final conclusions about something based on the first thing they see or experience about it (in this case, a salty butthurt Youtuber who refuses to invest time in the game). This is going to cause them to spread false info and misinformed opinions, which will damage the game's reputation.
So you end up getting comments like:
"Wow I'm surprised you haven't just dumped this shrapnel coated horseshit of a game"
"This game is fucking trash"
"Amethyst is such an airhead, that's why the plot is such a mess"
"How do they expect us to remember all these edgy ass characters when each update takes like a year to come out"

The only thing that Shofu did that everyone can say was kinda bad was skipping stuff and then complaining about not remembering stuff. The guy definitely had some valid criticisms of the game and he voiced them. It's the comments section that's way worse but then again YT comment sections are known for being toxic and full of dickheads anyway.

[Foamy]

39 minutes ago, Abyssreaper99 said:

The only thing that Shofu did that everyone can say was kinda bad was skipping stuff and then complaining about not remembering stuff. The guy definitely had some valid criticisms of the game and he voiced them. It's the comments section that's way worse but then again YT comment sections are known for being toxic and full of dickheads anyway.

Which of his criticisms were truly valid? I only heard him complain about things that were out of development's control (episode release times) or things that stemmed from his own personal shortcomings (literally everything else).