What Do You Think Are Reborn's Premier 'Mons?

[Norm]

Real self-explanatory question here. In terms of in-game viability, what Pokemon do you think are some of the best and most accessible Pokemon for somebody to use in Reborn? To lay some ground rules, I'd like to primarily go off of their current their availability (How early they're obtainable and how long it takes for them to take off) their stats and movepools, and how they matchup in Boss Fights, which are the meat and potatoes of Reborn's challenge.

 

My list is as follows

- Blaziken (Starter)

- Infernape (Starter)

- Greninja (Starter)

- Delphox (Starter)

- Venusaur (Starter)

-  Swampert (Starter)

- Amoonguss

- Arcanine

- Alakazam

- Excadrill

- Flygon

- Aegislash

- Heracross

- Alolatales

- Garchomp

- Scrafty

- Krookodile

- Scizor

- Kricketune (Up to mid-game)

 

Feel free to elaborate about your choices and discuss civilly. We are not animals here.

 

EDIT: Added BIGJRA and Azery's suggestions

[BIGJRA]

I'll throw in 3 that I find reliable, why not

 

Kricketune -- the early game got. With Fury Cutter and Technician, it utterly blows through Julia and Florinia in a point of the game where you don't really have lots of competent mons. Plus, it learning Perish Song at 50 plus a sash means a low effort way to deal with the uber hard story bosses, so that's nice. It obviously loses its worth pretty quick, but while it's usable, it's great.

 

Krookodile -- there's not too much to say about this guy that hasn't been said by others before - but it's simple. Competitively he is certainly slow and not always reliable with legendary threats but in game? Moxie plus a natural level up pool including Crunch, Earthquake, and Outrage (and Rock moves by other methods)? Just so useful, slugs hard for as long as you need it to slug hard in game. Could be an interesting factor in the endgame once we can buy scarves.

 

Escavalier -- by its typing, it's instantly useful for all three gyms it can fight to some extent - Ice, Normal, Psychic. After you get Trick Room is where this thing begins to shine -- it's immense attack stat under an amplified trick room means it can shred through opponents, especially with a doubles partner with a comparable moveset to match. A great mid-game titan under trick room.

[Azeria]

Despite being available late the following two Pokemon are TOO good to not give a mention to;

 

Scizor: Literally solo's E18. Solaris is the only one that can pose ANY resistance to it whatsoever. It's the best swords dance sweeper in the game in my opinion. Good bulk, amazing typing, technician boosted bullet punch and a choice between knock off and superpower to cover what Bullet Punch and Bug Bite cannot. It is well worth the hype it got, comes at around level 75 out the gate meaning it doesn't take much to grind up. It's late but honestly it just curbstomps nearly anything it's path.

 

Gyarados: Same story for this bad boi, except it trades priority for two great abilities and Dragon Dance. Completely puts Amaria and Titania into the dirt, and it's intimidate can prove quite handy against Hardy. Even in the Gauntlet where it can be doubled up on it hardy actually cares as it can quite easily stomp all 3 battles. Just too good to not mention.

 

And here are a few that I believe are underrated atm;

 

Garchomp: A lot of people are currently taking a little trash on it due to it's lack of natural Earthquake, however I actually don't think that's enough to detract from how much of a monster this Pokemon is in reality. It provides role compression very few other Pokemon do, hitting extremely hard with Dragonium-Z Outrage as well as Stomping Tantrum(which from experience is a good enough substitute for now, hitting for about as hard as Flygon's earthquake actually) and has access to Stealth Rock which it has the space to actually run due the lack of Swords Dance. Stealth Rock's ability to passively chip down opposing Pokemon into range for your others making it a great team player as it upholds the role of both a support and an offensive pokemon. Finally it has a good amount of coverage moves in Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Iron Head and Poison Jab for fairies and Brick Break to beat screens. It's stats are very well rounded meaning that it can take quite a few hits, which it's competition; Flygon and Excadrill can't quite do from my experience(though Krookodile can.) as well as naturally being faster than any of them. It also has a wide range of other items it can use over Dragonium-Z in Garchompite(very useful if you need the added bulk, as well as Sand Force. This thing completely destroys Hardy's team with no effort.) Rocky Helmet for passive chip damage on top of Rough Skin, the myriad of seeds and soon the Choice Scarf. From experience this thing took an absolute piss on most of Titania's team, proved invaluable vs the Gauntlet and curbstomped Hardy many times.

 

Typhlosion: The fact that this beast of a Pokemon isn't on that starter list is a disgrace tbh. This thing's Eruptions are absolutely brutal and melt basically anything in their path. Particularly brutal as there's a lot of areas in the game with the Forest/Grassy Fields which it just burns down in an instant and turns it into the burning field, which activates Blaze and boosts fire moves by 1.5x, turning it's Eruptions into forces of nature. Like, you can argue that it's a one trick pony, which it is, but that one trick is so ludicrously powerful that it absolutely deserves to be mentioned, especially when it gets that right before Bug and Ice using Bosses, as well as Noel who's field is just asking to be burnt by it. Doesn't even come that late if you don't pick it as a starter and has a really easy time with both Charlotte and Blake.

 

 

 

 

[Wolfox]

Obligatory Magnevoircore mention here

[Norm]

@BIGJRA

I agree with all the mons you listed, especially Krook and Escavalier. Trick Room is a pretty rare move, even with the TM, but it's really good for the whole Agate-Ametrine segment because of the sudden EV-trained enemies. Jagen Kricketune is honestly why people don't really care about the earlygame's difficulty, and I'd argue is the best non-starter Pokemon for said segment, though it isn't particularly good against Corey and Shelly.

 

@Azery then

The thing with Pokemon like Garchomp, Gyarados, is that they all come at the end of a game and fill similar roles to previous Pokemon available. Yes those three are nigh-unrivaled in their field sans legends, but In-game Pokemon isn't nearly as picky stat-wise as competitive. I don't think Garchomp is anywhere near as good as the utility the likes of Krookodile, Excadrill, and Flygon bring because he isn't around for many fights that the others contribute in. Excadrill is an ungodly wallbreaker (albeit locked behind RNG for the most part) who evolves early and packs some of the highest Attack ratings available. He can start stomping teams from Shelly, whereas Garchomp comes something like 12 badges later, and then comes at like level 30, so you have to grind it up to speed, which is something that a trained Flygon or Krookodile (Who is also a good rocker if needed) wouldn't have to deal with. Garchomp's roles can also be filled by Flygon and Krookodile. Gyarados faces the same problem as DD sweepers like Scrafty, Feraligatr, and the aforementioned Flygon exist and are more readily available. and I personally don't think Gyarados brings enough. I could understand Garchomp and Gyarados, being a dominant force if there was some huge strength gap between his contemporaries that a 'mon like Aegislash has, but Garchomp and Gyarados fill roles that could have been comfortably filled long before they arrived.

 

Scizor gets a pass, as while sweeping two endgame fights isn't really what I'd call top-tier (my Clefable did the same thing), he's second to Blaziken as a sweeper, and like you said comes at a relatively high level. Depending on how E19 goes, Scizor could be a late-game superpower as there are very little natural SD sweepers, and who knows when we'll get the SD TM.

 

I always seem to sleep on Typhlosion, mostly because I personally hate it, but to each his own. Typhlosion is a real good one-trick pony, I just don't think it's really worth choosing as a starter as he's really only average until it gets Eruption Typhlosion can certainly run through Charlotte, but I'm not too sure about post E17 Blake, as he has a lot of Fire-Resists now (I think Starmie, Gyarados, and TF Walrein) and half his team is above base 100 spd (Weavile, Starmie, Slushslash). Other than that, he's really good at double battles, and has pretty good coverage thanks to Nature Power and possibly Extrasensory.

 

2 hours ago, Wolfox said:

Obligatory Magnevoircore mention here

Those days are long gone, my friend.

[Wolfox]

2 minutes ago, Norm said:

@BIGJRA

I agree with all the mons you listed, especially Krook and Escavalier. Trick Room is a pretty rare move, even with the TM, but it's really good for the whole Agate-Ametrine segment because of the sudden EV-trained enemies. Jagen Kricketune is honestly why people don't really care about the earlygame's difficulty, and I'd argue is the best non-starter Pokemon for said segment, though it isn't particularly good against Corey and Shelly.

 

@Azery then

The thing with Pokemon like Garchomp, Gyarados, is that they all come at the end of a game and fill similar roles to previous Pokemon available. Yes those three are nigh-unrivaled in their field sans legends, but In-game Pokemon isn't nearly as picky stat-wise as competitive. I don't think Garchomp is anywhere near as good as the utility the likes of Krookodile, Excadrill, and Flygon bring because he isn't around for many fights that the others contribute in. Excadrill is an ungodly wallbreaker (albeit locked behind RNG for the most part) who evolves early and packs some of the highest Attack ratings available. He can start stomping teams from Shelly, whereas Garchomp comes something like 12 badges later, and then comes at like level 30, so you have to grind it up to speed, which is something that a trained Flygon or Krookodile (Who is also a good rocker if needed) wouldn't have to deal with. Garchomp's roles can also be filled by Flygon and Krookodile. Gyarados faces the same problem as DD sweepers like Scrafty, Feraligatr, and the aforementioned Flygon exist and are more readily available. and I personally don't think Gyarados brings enough. I could understand Garchomp and Gyarados, being a dominant force if there was some huge strength gap between his contemporaries that a 'mon like Aegislash has, but Garchomp and Gyarados fill roles that could have been comfortably filled long before they arrived.

 

Scizor gets a pass, as while sweeping two endgame fights isn't really what I'd call top-tier (my Clefable did the same thing), he's second to Blaziken as a sweeper, and like you said comes at a relatively high level. Depending on how E19 goes, Scizor could be a late-game superpower as there are very little natural SD sweepers, and who knows when we'll get the SD TM.

 

I always seem to sleep on Typhlosion, mostly because I personally hate it, but to each his own. Typhlosion is a real good one-trick pony, I just don't think it's really worth choosing as a starter as he's really only average until it gets Eruption Typhlosion can certainly run through Charlotte, but I'm not too sure about post E17 Blake, as he has a lot of Fire-Resists now (I think Starmie, Gyarados, and TF Walrein) and half his team is above base 100 spd (Weavile, Starmie, Slushslash). Other than that, he's really good at double battles, and has pretty good coverage thanks to Nature Power and possibly Extrasensory.

 

Those days are long gone, my friend.

maybe, but the legacy alone is enough to warrant the mention

[Azeria]

16 minutes ago, Norm said:

@BIGJRA

I agree with all the mons you listed, especially Krook and Escavalier. Trick Room is a pretty rare move, even with the TM, but it's really good for the whole Agate-Ametrine segment because of the sudden EV-trained enemies. Jagen Kricketune is honestly why people don't really care about the earlygame's difficulty, and I'd argue is the best non-starter Pokemon for said segment, though it isn't particularly good against Corey and Shelly.

 

@Azery then

The thing with Pokemon like Garchomp, Gyarados, is that they all come at the end of a game and fill similar roles to previous Pokemon available. Yes those three are nigh-unrivaled in their field sans legends, but In-game Pokemon isn't nearly as picky stat-wise as competitive. I don't think Garchomp is anywhere near as good as the utility the likes of Krookodile, Excadrill, and Flygon bring because he isn't around for many fights that the others contribute in. Excadrill is an ungodly wallbreaker (albeit locked behind RNG for the most part) who evolves early and packs some of the highest Attack ratings available. He can start stomping teams from Shelly, whereas Garchomp comes something like 12 badges later, and then comes at like level 30, so you have to grind it up to speed, which is something that a trained Flygon or Krookodile (Who is also a good rocker if needed) wouldn't have to deal with. Garchomp's roles can also be filled by Flygon and Krookodile. Gyarados faces the same problem as DD sweepers like Scrafty, Feraligatr, and the aforementioned Flygon exist and are more readily available. and I personally don't think Gyarados brings enough. I could understand Garchomp and Gyarados, being a dominant force if there was some huge strength gap between his contemporaries that a 'mon like Aegislash has, but Garchomp and Gyarados fill roles that could have been comfortably filled long before they arrived.

 

Scizor gets a pass, as while sweeping two endgame fights isn't really what I'd call top-tier (my Clefable did the same thing), he's second to Blaziken as a sweeper, and like you said comes at a relatively high level. Depending on how E19 goes, Scizor could be a late-game superpower as there are very little natural SD sweepers, and who knows when we'll get the SD TM.

 

I always seem to sleep on Typhlosion, mostly because I personally hate it, but to each his own. Typhlosion is a real good one-trick pony, I just don't think it's really worth choosing as a starter as he's really only average until it gets Eruption Typhlosion can certainly run through Charlotte, but I'm not too sure about post E17 Blake, as he has a lot of Fire-Resists now (I think Starmie, Gyarados, and TF Walrein) and half his team is above base 100 spd (Weavile, Starmie, Slushslash). Other than that, he's really good at double battles, and has pretty good coverage thanks to Nature Power and possibly Extrasensory.

 

Those days are long gone, my friend.

While yes that is true, we're approaching a point where bosses are pulling out a lot of bullshit such as PULSE2 and 6v12s and such, which make it a LOT harder from personal experience for lower stat Pokemon to keep themselves affloat as much. I've not really used Gyarados but not mentioning it when it's as ludicrously powerful as it is and has a legacy of being ludicrously good(s/o to it being the answer to literally ANY problem in Reborn back in the day.)is somewhat of a disservice to a Pokemon with a history like that. Furthermore while I can appreciate the set up niches Flygon and Excadrill have and Krookodile's Moxie, Flygon from personal experience(I use this Pokemon a lot until Garchomp is available, where I'll either run both or drop it for Garchomp) is comparatively far too reliant on it and over time loses a LOT of it's damage output due to it's average at best attack stat. Given the later we go on, the harder bosses tend to hit, it starts having genuine problems comparatively to Garchomp/Excadrill/Krookodile who can keep themselves affloat due to higher initial damage. I won't even try to contest Excadrill though, that thing is ludicrously good.

 

At the end of the day I feel that they are strong enough that -despite- coming as late as they do they deserve a ranking on this list, if on the lower end due to their availability problems. That being said it's nice to get someone else's perspective on this stuff as there is some personal bias involved on my suggestions, especially given you've pointed out most of the standout ones at the start.

 

That being said, why Amoonguss/Venusaur. From experience neither were particularly good.

 

As for Scizor, honestly if Aegis gets ranked, so should Scizor IMO.

[Norm]

3 hours ago, Azery then said:

While yes that is true, we're approaching a point where bosses are pulling out a lot of bullshit such as PULSE2 and 6v12s and such, which make it a LOT harder from personal experience for lower stat Pokemon to keep themselves affloat as much. I've not really used Gyarados but not mentioning it when it's as ludicrously powerful as it is and has a legacy of being ludicrously good(s/o to it being the answer to literally ANY problem in Reborn back in the day.)is somewhat of a disservice to a Pokemon with a history like that. Furthermore while I can appreciate the set up niches Flygon and Excadrill have and Krookodile's Moxie, Flygon from personal experience(I use this Pokemon a lot until Garchomp is available, where I'll either run both or drop it for Garchomp) is comparatively far too reliant on it and over time loses a LOT of it's damage output due to it's average at best attack stat. Given the later we go on, the harder bosses tend to hit, it starts having genuine problems comparatively to Garchomp/Excadrill/Krookodile who can keep themselves affloat due to higher initial damage. I won't even try to contest Excadrill though, that thing is ludicrously good.

 

At the end of the day I feel that they are strong enough that -despite- coming as late as they do they deserve a ranking on this list, if on the lower end due to their availability problems. That being said it's nice to get someone else's perspective on this stuff as there is some personal bias involved on my suggestions, especially given you've pointed out most of the standout ones at the start.

 

That being said, why Amoonguss/Venusaur. From experience neither were particularly good.

 

As for Scizor, honestly if Aegis gets ranked, so should Scizor IMO.

I agree that the fights are getting harder, but from experience, I still see Flygon as the better package when accounting obtainability and how easy it is to get to +1 on DD as well as Flygon's EQ hitting harder than Garchomp's Dig (It's strongest available Ground move). As for Venusaur and Amoonguss, Venusaur is admittedly only there because I thought the starter section needed at least 1 Grass Starter, and I'd argue Venusaur is the best because of its typing (Meteor seems to really like Bug and especially Poison) utility, and Mega. I actually do think Amoonguss is good because it has a lot of utility with Spore + Regenerator, has a surprisingly good movepool with moves like Nature Power, Giga Drain, Rage Powder (If you need some doubles support) and Foul Play to name a couple. Amoonguss avoids the trap of passive walls in-game by having a lot of moves that have good utility, movepool, a good ability (At least for Set style) to stay relevant.

[TheClownKing]

On 10/5/2018 at 5:30 PM, Norm said:

@BIGJRA

I agree with all the mons you listed, especially Krook and Escavalier. Trick Room is a pretty rare move, even with the TM, but it's really good for the whole Agate-Ametrine segment because of the sudden EV-trained enemies. Jagen Kricketune is honestly why people don't really care about the earlygame's difficulty, and I'd argue is the best non-starter Pokemon for said segment, though it isn't particularly good against Corey and Shelly.

 

@Azery then

The thing with Pokemon like Garchomp, Gyarados, is that they all come at the end of a game and fill similar roles to previous Pokemon available. Yes those three are nigh-unrivaled in their field sans legends, but In-game Pokemon isn't nearly as picky stat-wise as competitive. I don't think Garchomp is anywhere near as good as the utility the likes of Krookodile, Excadrill, and Flygon bring because he isn't around for many fights that the others contribute in. Excadrill is an ungodly wallbreaker (albeit locked behind RNG for the most part) who evolves early and packs some of the highest Attack ratings available. He can start stomping teams from Shelly, whereas Garchomp comes something like 12 badges later, and then comes at like level 30, so you have to grind it up to speed, which is something that a trained Flygon or Krookodile (Who is also a good rocker if needed) wouldn't have to deal with. Garchomp's roles can also be filled by Flygon and Krookodile. Gyarados faces the same problem as DD sweepers like Scrafty, Feraligatr, and the aforementioned Flygon exist and are more readily available. and I personally don't think Gyarados brings enough. I could understand Garchomp and Gyarados, being a dominant force if there was some huge strength gap between his contemporaries that a 'mon like Aegislash has, but Garchomp and Gyarados fill roles that could have been comfortably filled long before they arrived.

 

Scizor gets a pass, as while sweeping two endgame fights isn't really what I'd call top-tier (my Clefable did the same thing), he's second to Blaziken as a sweeper, and like you said comes at a relatively high level. Depending on how E19 goes, Scizor could be a late-game superpower as there are very little natural SD sweepers, and who knows when we'll get the SD TM.

 

I always seem to sleep on Typhlosion, mostly because I personally hate it, but to each his own. Typhlosion is a real good one-trick pony, I just don't think it's really worth choosing as a starter as he's really only average until it gets Eruption Typhlosion can certainly run through Charlotte, but I'm not too sure about post E17 Blake, as he has a lot of Fire-Resists now (I think Starmie, Gyarados, and TF Walrein) and half his team is above base 100 spd (Weavile, Starmie, Slushslash). Other than that, he's really good at double battles, and has pretty good coverage thanks to Nature Power and possibly Extrasensory.

 

Those days are long gone, my friend.

As someone who just started recently, I have to ask why those two aren't viable anymore? Browsing old topics for relevant pokemon for team building, I was planning to include both gardevoir and magnezone in my final teams. Are there just better options now? If so, what would they be? I didn't see an electric type mentioned in original post at all. My planned team was looking something like:

 

Greninja - Protean

Garchomp

Aegislash

Magnezone

Gardevoir

Volcarona

 

[wcv]

I second the inclusion of both Gardevoir and Magnezone. The two complement each other extremely well, and still form a solid core on a team.

[Norm]

3 hours ago, TheClownKing said:

As someone who just started recently, I have to ask why those two aren't viable anymore? Browsing old topics for relevant pokemon for team building, I was planning to include both gardevoir and magnezone in my final teams. Are there just better options now? If so, what would they be? I didn't see an electric type mentioned in original post at all. My planned team was looking something like:

 

Greninja - Protean

Garchomp

Aegislash

Magnezone

Gardevoir

Volcarona

 

Those two are still usable (Magnezone in particular) but both those Pokemon have been moved back significantly, particularly Gardevoir. If you want a Psychic or Fairy type, there are generally better options that come earlier or at the same time. Psychic types like Alakazam, Starter Delphox, MixEgg Starmie, and even Meowstic come earlier and, thus are more helpful for the game overall. Even when it was readily obtainable, Gardevoir still faced some tough competition between other Psychic types that could also fill its role, and the choice really came down to preference at the end of the day. Magnezone is a little different as its role isn't nearly as contested as Garde/Gallade's, though there are still other options like Manectric, Galvantula, Rotom, Escavalier, and Aggron to whatever role you may want it to fill. Though looking at your team, you don't seem to mind a team assembled very late in the game.

 

I gotta say, I don't understand the whole talk of a "core" with Garde/Zone. They're both pretty self sufficient Pokemon, and neither really covers their mots prominent weaknesses. Couldn't the same core be used niterchangeably with many High/Tier mons like Delphox/Magnezone or Gardevoir/Excadrill? As far as I'm concerned, competitive cores aren't particularly useful ingame as the AI lacks the momentum that is evident in competitive play, and it's not like you're gonna be trapping Scizors with Magnezone often in Reborn. 

 

Also, keep in mind that the OP is simply my subjective list, you're free to make your own and discuss each other's lists and choices.

[DemICE]

Mega bee.

Buff said.

Azery knows.

[Delibird Heart]

Cofagrigus is a solid trick room setter in a game where trick room makes almost every boss fight at least 5x easier, even if you don't have a dedicated TR team, and will-o/hex combo will get rid of any phys threat easily. Toss in pain split and you've got yourself a monster.

 

If you can get a good natured one and you're willing to go through the trouble of EV training it (at least in speed), Crustle can act as an excellent Shell Smash sweeper and destroy entire teams on its own.

 

Sudowoodo is amazing early game thanks to sturdy + counter (easiest way to beat Solaris' garchomp at Mt.Apophyll if you want the bonus money) and remains a pretty good mon throughout the adventure thanks to good physical offense, a pretty good movepool and solid defense.

 

All of these are pretty easy to obtain, unlike most of the mons mentioned in this thread. Not everyone wants to go through tedious sidequests just for one pokemon, ya know ?

[AyTales]

Pyukumuku is surprisingly amazing. Soak/Toxic/Counter/Purify is an amazing set that can fuck up every team Reborn sends at you. Add in a Power Trick Shuckle and you're golden.