So why did the rivals change?

[BigShotJoe]

Cain and Victoria no longer use a specific type of Pokemon (with the exception of Oshawott/Popplio) which was a great part of their character before Episode 18. It irks me that they were changed considering they'd used a monotype team for the first eight or so years of production only to change so close to the end.

[sdddf4]

Maybe to add more of a challenge? I can't remember what changes were made exactly so I can't say too much.

[kithas]

I recall they did start with a Monotype (Poison and Fight, respectively) but as the story progressed they diversified their teams as Fern did. Did it change in the most recent episode?

[BigShotJoe]

1 minute ago, kithas said:

I recall they did start with a Monotype (Poison and Fight, respectively) but as the story progressed they diversified their teams as Fern did. Did it change in the most recent episode?

Cain used the water starter that he rescued but other than that, both he and Victoria stuck to a monotype team. This was the case in episodes 1-17. Victoria doesn't even have a fighting starter now.

[Tacos]

I think many characters shifted away from monotype in episode 17.  These include but may not be limited to:

• Cain
• Fern
• Victoria
• Sigmund
• Cal
• Blake
• Arclight

Some characters also have shifted away slightly from monotype after your first battle with them:

• Julia
• Florinia
• Aya
• Radomus
• Luna
• Serra

[BigShotJoe]

3 minutes ago, Tacos said:

I think many characters shifted away from monotype in episode 17.  These include but may not be limited to:

• Cain
• Fern
• Victoria
• Sigmund
• Cal
• Blake
• Arclight

Some characters also have shifted away slightly from monotype after your first battle with them:

• Julia
• Florinia
• Aya
• Radomus
• Luna
• Serra

I forgot about Sigmund and Cal but my current playthrough isn't far enough to battle any of the others. It's a shame that they all moved away from using a set type. That added an interesting bit to their characters. I wonder why Ame decided to do that?

[Tacos]

5 minutes ago, BigShotJoe said:

I forgot about Sigmund and Cal but my current playthrough isn't far enough to battle any of the others. It's a shame that they all moved away from using a set type. That added an interesting bit to their characters. I wonder why Ame decided to do that?

To reassure you, only the first five that I listed have majorly shifted away from a single typing.  The rest really only diverge from their original type by one or two pokemon max.  If anything, a lot of these trainers have specific motifs that suit them more than a standard type, and Ame probably chose to prioritize expressing those motifs and giving their teams more flexibility.  For example, Arclight having a Noivern reflects him more because of its theme of sound.  Or Aya adopts a Lycanroc onto her team, which serves to express her connection with Hardy on the battlefield rather than just in her dialogue.  While most still remain central around one type, a few changes to their team just serve to translate their character into their battle style, and I think that's definitely helped to improve the storytelling, if only at least by a small amount.

[BigShotJoe]

3 minutes ago, Tacos said:

To reassure you, only the first five that I listed have majorly shifted away from a single typing.  The rest really only diverge from their original type by one or two pokemon max.  If anything, a lot of these trainers have specific motifs that suit them more than a standard type, and Ame probably chose to prioritize expressing those motifs and giving their teams more flexibility.  For example, Arclight having a Noivern reflects him more because of its theme of sound.  Or Aya adopts a Lycanroc onto her team, which serves to express her connection with Hardy on the battlefield rather than just in her dialogue.  While most still remain central around one type, a few changes to their team just serve to translate their character into their battle style, and I think that's definitely helped to improve the storytelling, if only at least by a small amount.

Those two examples make a lot of sense and I hadn't thought of it that way. However, that's still only two examples. Maybe I'll see more when I come across those characters but so far I haven't seen any noticeable themes. Victoria especially throws a wrench in that idea.

[Lord Drakyle]

15 minutes ago, BigShotJoe said:

Those two examples make a lot of sense and I hadn't thought of it that way. However, that's still only two examples. Maybe I'll see more when I come across those characters but so far I haven't seen any noticeable themes. Victoria especially throws a wrench in that idea.

i think Victoria's team is themed around her being a Fighter

[Abyssreaper99]

I think Ame changed it for a few reason:

 

1. Because most of them ended up diversifying their teams anyway so why not do it from the get go.
2. Since they're not gym leaders so they wouldn't need to stick with their typing

[BigShotJoe]

Just now, Abyssreaper99 said:

I think Ame changed it for a few reason:

 

1. Because most of them ended up diversifying their teams anyway so why not do it from the get go.
2. Since they're not gym leaders so they wouldn't need to stick with their typing

Cain and Cal used to be gym leaders and Julia, Florinia, Aya, Radomus, Luna, and Serra are current gym leaders. One or two Pokemon that don't fit the monotype mold are necessary to keep the rivals from being more than a minor speed bump. Changing their entire team from the beginning of the game is something else.

[ZEL]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I vaguely remember Cain already having a mixed team before, didn't he say something to the extent of not wanting to fight Radomus with a team full of Poison types, and thus having made some changes? I feel like I remember that from my first playthrough, which was in E14.

 

That said, I think a mixed team makes sense for his character. It'd be symbolic of him running away from home and abandoning the responsibility as the reserve poison leader. He might've wanted to break out of that old life, including dropping the monotype.

[Abyssreaper99]

9 minutes ago, BigShotJoe said:

Cain and Cal used to be gym leaders and Julia, Florinia, Aya, Radomus, Luna, and Serra are current gym leaders. One or two Pokemon that don't fit the monotype mold are necessary to keep the rivals from being more than a minor speed bump. Changing their entire team from the beginning of the game is something else.

But Cain left his mons in Aya's possession. I was referring to the non-leaders list for my "they're not leaders argument". Florinia has an excuse to mix up her team a bit as she can be more flexible with her desert rose image, plus leaders only have to have monotypes during their battles.

 

Aya's Lycanroc was probably a gift from Hardy. Radomus, Luna and Serra may have shared some of their mons plus their own mons outside of their gym battles. Cal has been in training until recently so he has an excuse to explore pokemon typings as he left his role.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

In addition to Samurott, Cain also had Galvantula and Absol before E17.

[Chase]

If I recall, Victoria uses a Litten at the start of the game now (this may have changed AGAIN since the last time I was playing, so bear with me and don't buy completely into my response if you know better)

 

Litten eventually evolves into Incineroar, whose "tertiary" typing would absolutely be fighting (if tertiary typing was a thing), even if it is Fire/Dark. The Heel Pokemon is based off of the "bad guy" in wrestling, and Fighting type moves such as Double Kick and Cross Chop are found in its learnset.

 

Cain also started diversifying as early as when he rescues Oshawott. Your rivals may have certain affinities, but they have not so much been monotype trainers. In a way, they are a lot like people who just use their favorite Pokemon rather than those who build their teams for synergy or to a certain set of rules.

[Damage]

Some characters like Cain change mons due to necessity. When he fought Radomos he decided poison types lose to psychics and he no longer had to lock to poison since he was never going back to the gym. Florinia is originally known as the desert rose so while away from her gym she can use a sandstorm team. Sigmund no longer operating within his home had to adapt to meteors enemies (mainly you) and an electric only team that was our first and easiest option doesn't work. Fern adopted a new strategy to fight you since he thinks miracles are real. Most characters that leave their motiff say something about it or there's dialogue that explains their change. At least from what I've seen.

[wcv]

On 10/14/2018 at 3:04 PM, BigShotJoe said:

Cain used the water starter that he rescued but other than that, both he and Victoria stuck to a monotype team. This was the case in episodes 1-17. Victoria doesn't even have a fighting starter now.

Cain had an Absol and Galvantula pre-Episode 17 IIRC. Victoria had Togekiss.

 

All that's happened is that Ame moved their diversification of Pokemon up from where it had been initially. This was needed to keep the rivals as being actually semi-serious foes. Victoria especially barely even qualified as a speed bump before her return in Episode 14 or 15.

[Azeria]

5 hours ago, wcv said:

Cain had an Absol and Galvantula pre-Episode 17 IIRC. Victoria had Togekiss.

 

All that's happened is that Ame moved their diversification of Pokemon up from where it had been initially. This was needed to keep the rivals as being actually semi-serious foes. Victoria especially barely even qualified as a speed bump before her return in Episode 14 or 15.

You uh realise that this change literally solidified Victoria as nothing but a speed bump? Fern/Cain can somewhat put up a fight compared to her lol...

[kithas]

20 hours ago, wcv said:

Cain had an Absol and Galvantula pre-Episode 17 IIRC. Victoria had Togekiss.

 

All that's happened is that Ame moved their diversification of Pokemon up from where it had been initially. This was needed to keep the rivals as being actually semi-serious foes. Victoria especially barely even qualified as a speed bump before her return in Episode 14 or 15.

I recall thinking Cain had those two mons in regards to Radomus psychic team (while being a poison-centered trainer) and, well, Incineroar is based of a wrestler (kind of) but I would be glad if they stuck to their themes of poison and fighter teams, not explicitly typing, but more style. As in I can get why Arclight's style would allow for a Noivern or an exploud, but not for, say, a Salamence.