Spoiler Discussion

[pizzagod13]

Yeah playing more of the paragon route after the renegade route and they are definitely connected. That means Good MC pretty much lets the evil route happen by giving them the obliteration spell, but seemingly its a necessary evil. My best guess is definitely that in order for a "happy ending" to present itself there must first be destruction, as in by destroying the world in one timeline, another timeline can have a chance...

[Cyphre]

Also i forgot to post this screenshot way when i replayed, but i feel that this thing that happened when she tried the ritual on Melia and showed a lot of her versions from different times, including the future i suppose, is fairly interesting. I don't recognize all of them, maybe someone can name all of them. 

Spoiler

 

[SoulN7]

34 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Also i forgot to post this screenshot way when i replayed, but i feel that this thing that happened when she tried the ritual on Melia and showed a lot of her versions from different times, including the future i suppose, is fairly interesting. I don't recognize all of them, maybe someone can name all of them. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Starting from the left:

Spoiler

Hooded Girl

End Ch13 Melia

Maria

Chapter 13 Melia

Earth Relic Melia?

Chapter 9-12 Melia

.Karma Files Melia

Marianette

Chapter 1 Melia

Post-Archetype Melia

The last one I never seen.

 

Unfortunatelly, the Earth Relic trial Melia is different. Those two similar to Melanie I never saw them.

 

[LectureSpoon]

 

I'm putting this here because it happens all the way in Sashila, but.

 

PRAISE THE COOLING HAT! YOU ARE SMARTER THAN 99% OF THE PEOPLE I KNOW!

[BlackPrismHunte]

I really need to thank whoever made the Shared PC mod. You are a hero and I love you. Thanks to them I was able to do almost the entire Renegade route in 2 days. I'm really enjoying the change of vibe 

Spoiler

Chase the natural and it seems to come back running. M2 really start of insane and mellows out after sparing Ren. She's still on the warpath but she still remembers and cares for her friends. I haven't beaten Dialga yet. I hate her and Palkia. No matter the route they are always a pain in the ass, I can't wait to delete their butts. I'm actually really curious about the MC's intentions. It's pretty clear they're hiding something. I have a theory I think.

 

I think it might go like this. The Renegade route comes right after the Paragon one in the timeline and is part of Paragon!Melia and the Interceptor's plan to save the world. Melia's short bout inside the dead future uncovered an enemy hiding behind the scenes but at that point in time they don't have anything to deal with it. Thanks to the Zeight they find that the way forward requires to get the Interceptor inside another timeline or rather in another world, this requiring to take down Tiempa and Spacea in order to have free reign and be able to do the jump. In this world however the Interceptor needs for the plan to work to start the timeline on the path of destruction (although there might be a way to set it right after that) , and so they act like a jerk, hitting their friends where they know it will hurt. They imply to the relevant characters they have done this before, they make sure to do none of the good they did in the previous timeline all to catch the attention of Kieran and Xara to gain access to their ressources. With the path set, they are now free to work toward their goal. Bringing down the eye in the tower and break destiny. This is why Melia made us fight recreations of their friends. Because a path like this would put them against their friends and they need to be able to take them down.

 

The Interceptor as said by Rune, is able to occupy several bodies. Maybe this is what she meant. When you switch save, the same Interceptor does as well. This explains how the Interceptor knew of the Red Chain. To my knowledge, we only learnt what it was on the tail end of the Paragon Route.  

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by BlackPrismHunte

[SoulN7]

2 hours ago, BlackPrismHunte said:

I really need to thank whoever made the Shared PC mod. You are a hero and I love you. Thanks to them I was able to do almost the entire Renegade route in 2 days. I'm really enjoying the change of vibe 

  Hide contents

Chase the natural and it seems to come back running. M2 really start of insane and mellows out after sparing Ren. She's still on the warpath but she still remembers and cares for her friends. I haven't beaten Dialga yet. I hate her and Palkia. No matter the route they are always a pain in the ass, I can't wait to delete their butts. I'm actually really curious about the MC's intentions. It's pretty clear they're hiding something. I have a theory I think.

 

I think it might go like this. The Renegade route comes right after the Paragon one in the timeline and is part of Paragon!Melia and the Interceptor's plan to save the world. Melia's short bout inside the dead future uncovered an enemy hiding behind the scenes but at that point in time they don't have anything to deal with it. Thanks to the Zeight they find that the way forward requires to get the Interceptor inside another timeline or rather in another world, this requiring to take down Tiempa and Spacea in order to have free reign and be able to do the jump. In this world however the Interceptor needs for the plan to work to start the timeline on the path of destruction (although there might be a way to set it right after that) , and so they act like a jerk, hitting their friends where they know it will hurt. They imply to the relevant characters they have done this before, they make sure to do none of the good they did in the previous timeline all to catch the attention of Kieran and Xara to gain access to their ressources. With the path set, they are now free to work toward their goal. Bringing down the eye in the tower and break destiny. This is why Melia made us fight recreations of their friends. Because a path like this would put them against their friends and they need to be able to take them down.

 

The Interceptor as said by Rune, is able to occupy several bodies. Maybe this is what she meant. When you switch save, the same Interceptor does as well. This explains how the Interceptor knew of the Red Chain. To my knowledge, we only learnt what it was on the tail end of the Paragon Route.  

 

I think M2 started to become """soft""" after witnessing what MC could do to kill someone. Like MC said, she has fear of them. I like to think she knows deep inside that if she does the wrong move, it's over. She knows that they are hiding more strength from their Interceptor's abilities and with the spell, they can easily kill her. She couldn't snap back at their speech. M2 overestimated herself: her Pokémon don't listen to her, her body is weaking itself faster than it should due to her abusing Archetype's power (and the fact that M2 is an older game version's Melia so she couldn't know), she destroyed her relationships in short time. M2's alone and her time is basically counted, so she couldn't accept she depends on MC before their snap.

 

 

For the rest, your theory is interesting, but I think Renegade MC is fully another entity far from Paragon MC. Plus, Renegade MC said that from their actions they don't achieve nothing, but "they gain everything" and I like to think 50% they talked about Paragon MC and friends and 50% only Paragon MC, since the player is always refered as "they" instead of your choice at the beginning.

[BlackPrismHunte]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:42 PM, SoulN7 said:

I think M2 started to become """soft""" after witnessing what MC could do to kill someone. Like MC said, she has fear of them. I like to think she knows deep inside that if she does the wrong move, it's over. She knows that they are hiding more strength from their Interceptor's abilities and with the spell, they can easily kill her. She couldn't snap back at their speech. M2 overestimated herself: her Pokémon don't listen to her, her body is weaking itself faster than it should due to her abusing Archetype's power (and the fact that M2 is an older game version's Melia so she couldn't know), she destroyed her relationships in short time. M2's alone and her time is basically counted, so she couldn't accept she depends on MC before their snap.

 

 

For the rest, your theory is interesting, but I think Renegade MC is fully another entity far from Paragon MC. Plus, Renegade MC said that from their actions they don't achieve nothing, but "they gain everything" and I like to think 50% they talked about Paragon MC and friends and 50% only Paragon MC, since the player is always refered as "they" instead of your choice at the beginning.

Spoiler

I don't think Melia mellowed out because of fear. For almost the entire chapter she seems convinced she can in fact kill the Interceptor. It's only at the end where she finally understand what Night's End does that she start to actually fear them. After sparing Ren, she has that chill interaction with Crawli. When Talon attacks them, once he is beaten she tries to convince him to stand down. She doesn't move to hurt him or advocate for it. Her first reflexe when confronted with Talon's rift is to ask the Interceptor to get him out. it's only after she realize doing so would put them right back where they started with an out of control rift beast that she tells the interceptor to delete him. She is upset at the Interceptor for trying to kill Venam and killing Amber. When she lashes out at the crew, Amber notes that despite her words she does care, that she is acting like herself with her mom. 

 

Ren's words pulled her out partially out of her insanity it touched her heart. And from then on she is a lot less random, it feels more like she wants to just have fun (and kill tiempa and spacea cause fuck them).  

 

As for my theory, as I said, at the time I hadn't beaten the Space/Time pains in the ass yet. Now though, it does seem to make my theory less likely but i don't think it has fully debunked it yet.

 

Call me phoenix Wright but there seem to be a contradiction in the Interceptor's words. They claim to not care about anyone, not even themselves, their goal is supposedly to erase everything even themselves. Yet their action will lead to "they getting everything". Assuming the "they" refer to the Paragon!MC, why would the Renegade!MC care? As established they don't even care about themselves. So why should they care about their counterpart? If their nihilism is so deep, shouldn't they jump at the opportunity to fuck them over? If they don't help the Paragon!MC supposedly their world would fall too. So it would be a win-win for them no?  

 

I think those words to Melia are just another part to their masquerade. Making themselves the villain, not just to Melia but to whoever is watching to blindside them. I think it's all a lie, one to prevent everyone from trying to dig harder in their motivations. 

 

Even the erasure spell itself makes me think something is up. It is called Night's End. At the end of the Night, there is the dawn. Which oftentimes symbolizes new beginnings, or the future. (I'm kinda reaching with that one but I needed to voice it)

 

Edit: I went back to compare the Renegade and Paragon's route and I noticed that the moment where End of the Night is created and given to the MC in Paragon and the first moment the spell is used in Renegade are desynched. What I mean is that in Renegade, the MC first uses the spell on December 9th, in Paragon, the spell is created at the earliest on December 13th. This only works if the timelines are not synched or if Renegade MC has the spell from the very beginning.

 

I think the Renegade!MC is playing the pronouns game. While the "they" could refer to their counterpart, I think it actually refers to everyone in that world. Which still brings up the why would they care if they were as evil as they portray themselves. It starts making sense however if you consider them to be the same as Paragon!MC. Of course they care about their friends, of course they want to save them. 

 

I'd like to bring up the NG+ interaction with the Puppet Master crew. While they imply MC has done this before, when they regain their memory of that timeline they outright call out events from the Paragon timeline. Specifically Rune says that at that time, the Interceptor were a teamplayer. Which doesn't hold true anymore in the Renegade. This exchange makes 0 sense, unless the Paragon!MC and the Renegade one are one and the same.

 

Edited January 4 by BlackPrismHunte

[ClaraTheCriminal]

All of this is definitely making sure I'm not playing Renegade. Sticking to the summaries, thank you very much

[SoulN7]

24 minutes ago, BlackPrismHunte said:

  Hide contents

I don't think Melia mellowed out because of fear. For almost the entire chapter she seems convinced she can in fact kill the Interceptor. It's only at the end where she finally understand what Night's End does that she start to actually fear them. After sparing Ren, she has that chill interaction with Crawli. When Talon attacks them, once he is beaten she tries to convince him to stand down. She doesn't move to hurt him or advocate for it. Her first reflexe when confronted with Talon's rift is to ask the Interceptor to get him out. it's only after she realize doing so would put them right back where they started with an out of control rift beast that she tells the interceptor to delete him. She is upset at the Interceptor for trying to kill Venam and killing Amber. When she lashes out at the crew, Amber notes that despite her words she does care, that she is acting like herself with her mom. 

 

Ren's words pulled her out partially out of her insanity it touched her heart. And from then on she is a lot less random, it feels more like she wants to just have fun (and kill tiempa and spacea cause fuck them).  

 

As for my theory, as I said, at the time I hadn't beaten the Space/Time pains in the ass yet. Now though, it does seem to make my theory less likely but i don't think it has fully debunked it yet.

 

Call me phoenix Wright but there seem to be a contradiction in the Interceptor's words. They claim to not care about anyone, not even themselves, their goal is supposedly to erase everything even themselves. Yet their action will lead to "they getting everything". Assuming the "they" refer to the Paragon!MC, why would the Renegade!MC care? As established they don't even care about themselves. So why should they care about their counterpart? If their nihilism is so deep, shouldn't they jump at the opportunity to fuck them over? If they don't help the Paragon!MC supposedly their world would fall too. So it would be a win-win for them no?  

 

I think those words to Melia are just another part to their masquerade. Making themselves the villain, not just to Melia but to whoever is watching to blindside them. I think it's all a lie, one to prevent everyone from trying to dig harder in their motivations. 

 

Even the erasure spell itself makes me think something is up. It is called Night's End. At the end of the Night, there is the dawn. Which oftentimes symbolizes new beginnings, or the future. (I'm kinda reaching with that one but I needed to voice it)

 

I think the Renegade!MC is playing the pronouns game. While the "they" could refer to their counterpart, I think it actually refers to everyone in that world. Which still brings up the why would they care if they were as evil as they portray themselves. It starts making sense however if you consider them to be the same as Paragon!MC. Of course they care about their friends, of course they want to save them. 

 

I'd like to bring up the NG+ interaction with the Puppet Master crew. While they imply MC has done this before, when they regain their memory of that timeline they outright call out events from the Paragon timeline. Specifically Rune says that at that time, the Interceptor were a team a player. Which doesn't hold true anymore in the Renegade. This exchange makes 0 sense, unless the Paragon!MC and the Renegade one are one and the same.

 

I do wonder if the End of Night has some exstension in its effects, who knows. The next chapter will surely answer a lot of question, since .Karma Files was the first "chapter" for both routes. And I should seriously do the NG+ because I'm resetting everytime and I want to find all possible NG+ or hidden answers to some questions, like with Hazuki back in Chapter 13, Damien and more.To be honest, I think some of this interactions could not be canon, but they help to imply something for the lore of the game

[SoulN7]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:32 AM, SoulN7 said:

Starting from the left:

  Hide contents

Hooded Girl

End Ch13 Melia

Maria

Chapter 13 Melia

Earth Relic Melia?

Chapter 9-12 Melia

.Karma Files Melia

Marianette

Chapter 1 Melia

Post-Archetype Melia

The last one I never seen.

 

Unfortunatelly, the Earth Relic trial Melia is different. Those two similar to Melanie I never saw them.

 

I checked again and it seems like the other ones I had doubts are probably Melanie and M2 with "messed up" hair. Nothing to add, as suspected, those are all Melia's "important" appearances...without Emma.

[ClaraTheCriminal]

Okay, so I've just beaten 13.5 and there is quite a lot to process?

I mean, it does make some level of sense, but I'd probably have to do a NG+ playthrough in a while to figure all of this out (definitely not starting up a brand new playthough this soon, especially because I plan on using the 999 Black Shard gift in the next one)

[Magus543]

1 hour ago, ClaraTheCriminal said:

Okay, so I've just beaten 13.5 and there is quite a lot to process?

I mean, it does make some level of sense, but I'd probably have to do a NG+ playthrough in a while to figure all of this out (definitely not starting up a brand new playthough this soon, especially because I plan on using the 999 Black Shard gift in the next one)

Have you beaten both routes? Because both routes explain important details. 

[ClaraTheCriminal]

2 hours ago, Magus543 said:

Have you beaten both routes? Because both routes explain important details. 

Only Paragon, and I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to doing Renegade. Maybe for that Kira joke run, perhaps

 

[SoulN7]

Unfortunatelly, Renegade Route is truly complementary to Paragon, meaning sometimes you will miss details. Somewhere in some dev blogs ago, Jan said that Renegade Route means doom, probably it won't even have post-game. Better to have a second "less main" run about it or recover the route between summaries, discussions or some video that are already on the web.

[ClaraTheCriminal]

Well, if I do end up doing a Renegade run (and not just getting the tldr from someone or somewhere else, it'll definitley be with the Kira joke playthrough

[Magus543]

1 minute ago, ClaraTheCriminal said:

Well, if I do end up doing a Renegade run (and not just getting the tldr from someone or somewhere else, it'll definitley be with the Kira joke playthrough

What's Kira? 

[SoulN7]

Just now, Magus543 said:

What's Kira? 

I think they mean from Death Note. I think?

[ClaraTheCriminal]

Just now, Magus543 said:

What's Kira? 

Playthrough of Rejuvenation as the titular Yoshikage Kira. Basically, I'm only allowed to use pokemon that learn Explosion,, and have to choose answers based on what the character would do. Most likely that'd end up in a Renegade Route playthrough

[ClaraTheCriminal]

1 minute ago, SoulN7 said:

I think they mean from Death Note. I think?

Forgot about that guy. Idek what pokemon he'd use. Applin, maybe?

[SoulN7]

Just now, ClaraTheCriminal said:

Forgot about that guy. Idek what pokemon he'd use. Applin, maybe?

If that guy would use Pokèmon, probably (Gen 9 spoilers)

Spoiler

Dipplin.

And Pokèmon with "violent" traits, maybe Krookodile and Hydreigon.

[VMeemes]

So for Delpha/Puppet Master stuff do you have to have beaten .karma files first and then have a new save or is simply having it in your quest log enough to trigger the NG+ rewards?

[Cyphre]

Just now, VMeemes said:

So for Delpha/Puppet Master stuff do you have to have beaten .karma files first and then have a new save or is simply having it in your quest log enough to trigger the NG+ rewards?

Hard to say but i wouldn't risk it and just beat it anyway. 

[Mimikyu]

Was the Images for the Obliteration spell removed from the Graphics folder?

I remember seeing them around the first couple updates and now i cant find them at all now

[SoulN7]

13 hours ago, Mimikyu said:

Was the Images for the Obliteration spell removed from the Graphics folder?

I remember seeing them around the first couple updates and now i cant find them at all now

I found them:

Spoiler

All of them in the Characters Folder, within the name "erase".

 

[Mimikyu]

2 hours ago, SoulN7 said:

I found them:

  Hide contents

All of them in the Characters Folder, within the name "erase".

 

Now thats an odd place but at the same time makes sense image pulling wise and coding wise

 

Ah yes with Fica the Ficus sprite pff