Mudkip604 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, SoulN7 said: Yup. Plenty of questions. Like...Where Giratina and Mewtwo went. The second was with Crescent and she's with us, so...maybe they could throw a question about where she went, during the mall day. oh yeah mewtwo was a thing,honestly i wonder what the original plot was going to be ,i remember the first version having melia be sacrificed to arceus in the intro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulN7 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mudkip604 said: oh yeah mewtwo was a thing,honestly i wonder what the original plot was going to be ,i remember the first version having melia be sacrificed to arceus in the intro To be honest, I don't know. (It was Maria who got sacrificed), but many details went lost, changed or retconned (pretty sure Blacksteeple was filled with Xerneas's statues, Carnivine being a main story's rift mon, Venam's Gym being after Melia was chased by Team Xen, ...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMeemes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I'm just curious about the Regirock side quest and the implications of that. Because if you destroy the terminal you free some ghosts that you've never seen before but it also frees Aelita from being forcefully reincarnated forever, if not reimplementing a stronger curse for the next Envoy. The downside is that people will die. But if you leave things as is then you throw Aelita under the bus but you can save the world. I sort of did it, though I just wanted to see what else happens after catching Regirock before reloading my save. I kinda hope that boss battle is winnable. Like it's obviously not meant to be won but it'd be interesting if it was. Edit: I just wonder if it'll have any ramifications down the line or if its purely flavour text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulN7 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 It feels like another "save your loved one or save milions" like happened with Melia in Chapter 12. I'm having an hard time realizing which one is the better choice, because the dialogue post-choice points towards not destroying it, so... Admin could be truly ruthless, but it had a point, while we're just making happy Aelita/Vivian. We already saw the consequences with "helping" Vivian or her incarnations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphre Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 On 11/7/2023 at 11:29 AM, SoulN7 said: It feels like another "save your loved one or save milions" like happened with Melia in Chapter 12. I'm having an hard time realizing which one is the better choice, because the dialogue post-choice points towards not destroying it, so... Admin could be truly ruthless, but it had a point, while we're just making happy Aelita/Vivian. We already saw the consequences with "helping" Vivian or her incarnations... Not just them, we are also freeing souls of countless Maidens of Reincarnation that came before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulN7 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, Cyphre said: Not just them, we are also freeing souls of countless Maidens of Reincarnation that came before them. I know, but something continued to told me it wasn't the right choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphre Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I think it is, Nymiera and others always make compromises for the Greater Good, so to speak, and as a moral question it doesn't have an answer really, but denying old ways and carving a path to the future that will save everyone without torturing selected few seems like a step towards a perfect ending in my eyes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus543 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, SoulN7 said: It feels like another "save your loved one or save milions" like happened with Melia in Chapter 12. I'm having an hard time realizing which one is the better choice, because the dialogue post-choice points towards not destroying it, so... Admin could be truly ruthless, but it had a point, while we're just making happy Aelita/Vivian. We already saw the consequences with "helping" Vivian or her incarnations... Sorry, which sidequest is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulN7 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Magus543 said: Sorry, which sidequest is this? Explore the new Garufa Ruins under Carotos Mountain, after completing .Karma Files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus543 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Ah, so I'll get to that after I'm done with other stuff then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPrismHunte Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) Kill me now. I've been a jerk for like 50 hours, I've lost any fight that would lose me karma point, butterflies no longer heal me but down me to 1 HP, I've killed Karrina, I didn't save Amber, I sacrificed the people from the bad timeline. So WHY IN ARCEUS NAME AM I ON THE GODDAMN PARAGON ROUTE??? Jesus fucking christ this is absurd. I went out of my way to do no sidequest aside from the hidden library one. It wasn't an useless experience but god does it piss me off. So now I find myself with an useless second paragon route whose only thing it has over the first is that I have Delpha. I'm so frustrated right now. Hopefully debug mode will let me change whatever karma point to the correct value from an earlier save (and debug the Legendary wings quest) Edited November 7, 2023 by BlackPrismHunte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMeemes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 7 hours ago, SoulN7 said: Explore the new Garufa Ruins under Carotos Mountain, after completing .Karma Files. As I found out you don't even need to complete the .Karma Files stuff. It just merely has to be in progress. How I know is because I did the endgame part of the Files, reloaded to the point before I finished 13.5, and then just did other stuff. So it just has to be in progress, which is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMeemes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, BlackPrismHunte said: Kill me now. I've been a jerk for like 50 hours, I've lost any fight that would lose me karma point, butterflies no longer heal me but down me to 1 HP, I've killed Karrina, I didn't save Amber, I sacrificed the people from the bad timeline. So WHY IN ARCEUS NAME AM I ON THE GODDAMN PARAGON ROUTE??? Jesus fucking christ this is absurd. I went out of my way to do no sidequest aside from the hidden library one. It wasn't an useless experience but god does it piss me off. So now I find myself with an useless second paragon route whose only thing it has over the first is that I have Delpha. I'm so frustrated right now. Hopefully debug mode will let me change whatever karma point to the correct value from an earlier save (and debug the Legendary wings quest) Did you talk to Clear and whats-his-face during the Puppet Master segment? Because you had to have talked to them before you're considered on the Renegade Route. In-addition to having the lowest karma possible of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPrismHunte Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, VMeemes said: Did you talk to Clear and whats-his-face during the Puppet Master segment? Because you had to have talked to them before you're considered on the Renegade Route. In-addition to having the lowest karma possible of course. At what point am I supposed to talk to the guy exactly? After they are captured? Before that? Also this game is fucking with me. For some reason, it kept saves from all the way back to the 9nth badge and then nothing till RIGHT AFTER THE FIGHT AGAINST THE PUPPET MASTER. Edited November 7, 2023 by BlackPrismHunte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus543 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, BlackPrismHunte said: At what point am I supposed to talk to the guy exactly? After they are captured? Before that? Also this game is fucking with me. For some reason, it kept saves from all the way back to the 9nth badge and then nothing till RIGHT AFTER THE FIGHT AGAINST THE PUPPET MASTER. Did you see the pink boxes in the Interceptor's nightmare realm? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPrismHunte Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, Magus543 said: Did you see the pink boxes in the Interceptor's nightmare realm? No. I did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMeemes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, BlackPrismHunte said: No. I did not. Then you didn't meet the requirements for the Renegade Route. Don't ask me how one would meet the requirements, I don't have the intention of doing Renegade in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudkip604 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 13 hours ago, Cyphre said: I think it is, Nymiera and others always make compromises for the Greater Good, so to speak, and as a moral question it doesn't have an answer really, but denying old ways and carving a path to the future that will save everyone without torturing selected few seems like a step towards a perfect ending in my eyes. this was my thought process i saw both outcomes and when you dont destroy it, nymiera never confesses to anything and the admin says he is looking foward to aelitas death.This plus nymiera being much darker than i once thought made me destroy the terminal and also if we achieve the flourishing this program wont be needed as there probably wont be a vitus program anymore creating all catastrophes.Also remember the core nymiera and its programs are what is shackling humanity so preventing their influence is better in the grand scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus543 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 8 hours ago, Mudkip604 said: this was my thought process i saw both outcomes and when you dont destroy it, nymiera never confesses to anything and the admin says he is looking foward to aelitas death.This plus nymiera being much darker than i once thought made me destroy the terminal and also if we achieve the flourishing this program wont be needed as there probably wont be a vitus program anymore creating all catastrophes.Also remember the core nymiera and its programs are what is shackling humanity so preventing their influence is better in the grand scheme. Wait, what's this about Nymiera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudkip604 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Magus543 said: Wait, what's this about Nymiera? the regis quests reveal she orchestrated the tragic events that led hazuki and vivian towards her so they could serve her,she claims this is a necessary sacrifice.She set up an under ground chamber where the envoys(people like vivian) who were born from a special soil there are trained under brutal conditions and forced to rebel against the admin(a garufan mechanical mon with a soul of a garufan) when they do this nymieria meets them soon after and"helps" them find their way to the surface while the envoy is forever oblivious that she was the mastermind, on top of that all souls of previous envoys are trapped in a terminal and use to create a new better one after the previous one died.Vivian was their masterpiece as she could reincarnate on her own and fight vitsus(we think) eternally.The mc breaks vivians curse which forced the admin to eventually resume the program when aelita dies and he looks foward to aelitas death.For context nymieria is a program of the core and like spacea and tiempa she was fused with a legendary and took them over in this case being xerneas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokerus Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 I think people are getting to worked up about this lol The game isn't finished, answers aren't going to come so easily. Complaining about it getting more "meta" is silly, considering only three or four versions ago a solid chunk of the NPCs were spitting memes. The game has never been "serious" serious and even if it takes a bit more of an odd turn, I think it makes it more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphre Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 It's not about seriousness or anything like it, the issue is any kind of tonal and narrative consistency is gone. Imagine if Dog ending in Silent Hill 2 was the only and canon one. 95% of the game you are building up towards one thing, focusing on one thing, building up towards one thing, then you do ridiculous 180, abandon everything you built up before and go into a new direction. This is just terrible writing 101. Suddenly making things that were never relevant for 99% of this already incredibly lenghty game a focal point, while severely downplaying other issues. Similar things happened with Reborn, it was absolutely fine going into final versions, but suddenly they realised they are at the champion and they barely started their plot because they never had coherent vision. The result is the asinine postgame that completely ruined the rest of Reborn. Any work of art need a coherent vision and tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z.. Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Mudkip604 said: the regis quests reveal she orchestrated the tragic events that led hazuki and vivian towards her so they could serve her,she claims this is a necessary sacrifice.She set up an under ground chamber where the envoys(people like vivian) who were born from a special soil there are trained under brutal conditions and forced to rebel against the admin(a garufan mechanical mon with a soul of a garufan) when they do this nymieria meets them soon after and"helps" them find their way to the surface while the envoy is forever oblivious that she was the mastermind, on top of that all souls of previous envoys are trapped in a terminal and use to create a new better one after the previous one died.Vivian was their masterpiece as she could reincarnate on her own and fight vitsus(we think) eternally.The mc breaks vivians curse which forced the admin to eventually resume the program when aelita dies and he looks foward to aelitas death.For context nymieria is a program of the core and like spacea and tiempa she was fused with a legendary and took them over in this case being xerneas Bro what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus543 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Yeah that's a big shock, Nymiera might be just as bad as Spacea and Tiempa when it comes to the greater good. Certainly puts on a different spin to all her scenes now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulN7 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Welp, since she's literally an "evolved" program, I wouldn't expect some moral from her. To be honest, I'm not sure if we can trust her completely. And I do wonder what lies within her castle, you know...it was 10 chapters before, so I hope we can see something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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