Spoiler Discussion

[OmegaStellarSolare]

To me, it’s more like main heroes are treated as cosmic plaything by gods.

[Mudkip604]

5 hours ago, Z.. said:

Bro what?

exactly those quests were crazy

[VMeemes]

So this is purely a guess on my part but when it comes to the Legendary Birds does that change depending on what route you're on? Like say Paragon gives you the normal versions of the birds while Renegade gives you the Galar variants.

[Pokerus]

Spoiler

Dunno if it's been discussed or discovered yet, as I'm still in my playthrough, but my theory on where the Xen Grunts come from is that they're souls taken from the Den of Souls and put into the black box cores. 

 

There have been numerous hints at them being from somewhere else, or something else, especially by Sharon. The Xen Mage in the Pokemon Tower in GDC kinda hints at it, as she mentions she and her Sneasel had been in an accident and her Sneasel didn't make it, but she didn't know where it had been buried. This implies that she had been killed too.

 

[Cyphre]

I highly doubt that, something like Eli being afraid for Sharlene to die wouldn't make much sense then if they died once before. Also after the guy in the graveyard where Chandelure is buried and after Tommen in garufan ruins no black box was left, while Augustus and Nancy had black box left after them.

Even moreso, early on in the game one grunt says that when they enter team Xen, they receive a green gem and Xen uniform. Wouldn't make much sense to say that if they were forcefully pulled into it. 

 

I made a theory years ago, still somewhere on the forum here, that Team Xen are just what it implies, people from different world/time and that their suits (especially for Deathwings) and now added green gems keep them tied in this world/time. I believe the end of Ana questline and V also kinda reaffirm it. 

[SoulN7]

Welp, your theory can work with Nastasia: Melia has an existance age of 75, but Nastasia seems like at least in her late 30s, so I'm not surprised if she "skipped" some years. She should be around the 50s. 

[VMeemes]

This might be a silly, overthinking question but one that mostly made me curious: Does the game acknowledge it at all when you input the ANA password? Because this update (and probably earlier story stuff that I can't remember off the top of my head) point out that Ana died before everyone else did. So how is it that the Interceptor managed to call upon her soul, and a robotic one no less?

 

Like does Crescent go like "What the hell where's so-n-so, all I got is this random person who I don't have a big connection to." And since you're basically a soul jar for the other six do they acknowledge that Ana shouldn't be a factor in this?

 

Also would the Ana quest proper point out that "hey these two look eerily similar to each other is there a connection at all to this?"

 

This question mostly stemmed from the thought about what happens when you take the Mr. Luck contracts that change your appearance, do the nightmare school segment, do all that with the current character you're taking the appearance of, leave said segment and change appearance. Does the game break because it assumes you took one appearance but you went out of your way to change what you look like or are the Devs smarter then I am and accounted for that?

[Magus543]

So can we discuss how the erasure spell came from the protagonist and Melia in the Paragon route? 

[Cyphre]

It is clear by now Paragon and Renegade routes are somehow intertwined and communicate with each other, with both receiving not just data but physical items from one another. There is clearly a bigger thing going on there but until v14 i doubt it's possible to deduce anything from it. 

[SoulN7]

It's like Renegade MC became aware of an existing alternative timeline where time goes in the same moment as theirs, but I'm not sure how they did become aware of it, because if they "fake" the reasons to not use the Red Chain with M2 but instead send it to another timeline on purpose is too much suspicious. At this point, I might think that even Melia knows the existance of the Renegade Timeline. After all, we discoreved that Renegade MC "erase" people because they think their world was destined to be doomed, so it makes sense that they wanted to help a similar world of their but with a better future.

[Magus543]

That's the thing, I'm curious as to why Paragon MC and Melia are willing to give this kind of spell to the Renegade MC. Melia even says the spell is going to kill a lot of people, but it's all for some bigger goal. 

 

And we don't know what exactly Paragon MC and Melia are planning or how much they know about the Renegade timeline.

[SoulN7]

At this point, I should expect Paragon MC, with high positive Karma or a "total of relationship points of every character" so high they snap like Renegade MC and throw some kind of speech about fighting all those threats to get a better future after knowing the failure of the Renegade Timeline...or something similar.

[Magus543]

55 minutes ago, SoulN7 said:

At this point, I should expect Paragon MC, with high positive Karma or a "total of relationship points of every character" so high they snap like Renegade MC and throw some kind of speech about fighting all those threats to get a better future after knowing the failure of the Renegade Timeline...or something similar.

Renegade seems to be going the path of the expendable alternate universe that's doomed to die anyway so the best ending can be achieved, and that concerns me.

 

The major points in the Renegade MC's speech that he knows that everything is doomed, that the spell is just a mercy kill, that "they" will get everything, while he and the others will be deleted. 

 

This def paints the Paragon MC and Melia in a darker light if they are willing to support this kind of mass death, and the Renegade MC goes from villain protagonist to a very dark anti-hero if this is truly the case.  I feel that these kinds of meta multiverse stakes are just too much for Rejuvenation. 

 

I'm not sure how to phrase this properly, but I'll try. Sure Rejuvenation has had some high concepts, there's already apocalypses, LOTS OF TIME TRAVEL, everything to do with the Interceptor, Gods, recycled worlds, but now there's evil A.I.s controlling everything the characters do and multiverses doomed to die.

 

Making this worse IMO is that Rejuvenation's initial end goal "Defeat Team Xen and Vitus" hasn't even been accomplished yet, so throwing all this crazy shit feels like bloating the game to a whole new level.  

[Cyphre]

By this point Vitus isn't even that much of a threat to be honest. Now that we know he is simply a sort of a construct that is a part of cicle of life, both his and Nymiera's importance kinda fell off a cliff. Which is ridiculous considering for a good decade of development he was THE threat, the big bad, the main antagonist, and he seemingly jumped off this bandwagon without us even meeting him again after the mansion. 

[SoulN7]

Mysteries like Marianette back in Chapter 3, what happened to Anathea after being in the Soul Stone and why we can't summon her in the present, Indriad in the Underground Sanctuary, now we have this powerful A.I., two dimensional travellers, an Ultra Beast who could kill easily an entire city and who knows. And since I'm here, I'm throwing the theory that Karma is actually Arceus. Or, at least, some remains of its soul. Karma Files implied the study of the "Soul" and after the lies of Nymiera, I'm expecting many things that were untold, since Adrest couldn't access to everything Variya worked about.

[Magus543]

@Cyphre Yeah that's the other problem I've had with the reveal of Karma and the World Shatterer. The story has built up Vitus, Madame X, Clear and Kieran as threats with personal connections to the protagonists and while it IS to early to say, it feels like they are all falling off the importance bandwagon in favor of these bigger threats that are too grandiose. 

 

I dunno, maybe V14 can pull something off. I still want to pay Clear back for everything she's done.

 

 

@SoulN7 

 

Boy there are so many mysteries in this game. I am truly looking forward to seeing how the game wraps up all of it. I'm expecting a big hot mess that's at least entertaining. 

 

Kind of like Rise of Skywalker. 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoulN7]

"Somehow, Vitus returned..." jokes aside, I have high hopes still in the devs and just want them to not sort of "panic" to rush the plot, since I know the main story could reach its climax soon and probably we'll have 3 three Gym Leaders pretty much near each other (I checked the Pictures Folder and found that 2 badges are actually the same and we miss exactly Dark, Fairy and Dragon, so...we know who are those Gym Leaders, right?)

[Magus543]

4 minutes ago, SoulN7 said:

"Somehow, Vitus returned..." jokes aside, I have high hopes still in the devs and just want them to not sort of "panic" to rush the plot, since I know the main story could reach its climax soon and probably we'll have 3 three Gym Leaders pretty much near each other (I checked the Pictures Folder and found that 2 badges are actually the same and we miss exactly Dark, Fairy and Dragon, so...we know who are those Gym Leaders, right?)

Yeah I think the devs can certainly deliver and despite my misgivings, I really did enjoy this update. 

 

I remember Jan in the Q&A session mentioned that he already has everything planned out in a document but judging how he was upfront that Paragon and Renegade is a relatively new addition in that blog post, I think some new plot points were added since then. 

 

[SoulN7]

12 minutes ago, Magus543 said:

Yeah I think the devs can certainly deliver and despite my misgivings, I really did enjoy this update. 

 

I remember Jan in the Q&A session mentioned that he already has everything planned out in a document but judging how he was upfront that Paragon and Renegade is a relatively new addition in that blog post, I think some new plot points were added since then. 

 

I'm praying Jan to continue releases of "NG+ mechanics", release one of the Charizardite or delivering well the Paradoxs Pokèmon, since it's a form concept I really enjoyed. They are handling well the Hisuian Forms, so...

 

Edit: now that I think about it, previous versions had Light Profecy and Crystal Ball telling the origins of "four light not born from men", obliviously some details changed, but the original concept is explained: Melia, the one with Arceus's light; Aelita, the one who desires to lead other; Crescent, the one who lost a loved one (she's Interceptor and her origin story...kinda makes sense?) and MC, obliviously. But I want to remember who instead the Dark Profecy talked about...

[Cyphre]

Iron Moth is in the game so Paradox mons are clearly coming at some point. 

[SoulN7]

1 minute ago, Cyphre said:

Iron Moth is in the game so Paradox mons are clearly coming at some point. 

Yup, I battled it and it has shiny and back sprites, only missing the menu sprites.

[Magus543]

13 minutes ago, SoulN7 said:

I'm praying Jan to continue releases of "NG+ mechanics", release one of the Charizardite or delivering well the Paradoxs Pokèmon, since it's a form concept I really enjoyed. They are handling well the Hisuian Forms, so...

 

Edit: now that I think about it, previous versions had Light Profecy and Crystal Ball telling the origins of "four light not born from men", obliviously some details changed, but the original concept is explained: Melia, the one with Arceus's light; Aelita, the one who desires to lead other; Crescent, the one who lost a loved one (she's Interceptor and her origin story...kinda makes sense?) and MC, obliviously. But I want to remember who instead the Dark Profecy talked about...

Four darknesses born of men? Well Ren is one of betrayal supposedly. Though I suspect Reina might be it. I always thought the whole Robot Ren thing was such a bizarre thing to add but it does kind of discount Ren from being of the dark by technicality.

 

There's darkness of pure evil, greed, and obsession.

 

I'm curious if this is even going to get paid off or just retconned away as not really important since the game is going with the direction that the Interceptors are the ones to decide the fate of worlds.

 

 

And also Karma. 

[SoulN7]

25 minutes ago, Magus543 said:

Four darknesses born of men? Well Ren is one of betrayal supposedly. Though I suspect Reina might be it. I always thought the whole Robot Ren thing was such a bizarre thing to add but it does kind of discount Ren from being of the dark by technicality.

 

There's darkness of pure evil, greed, and obsession.

 

I'm curious if this is even going to get paid off or just retconned away as not really important since the game is going with the direction that the Interceptors are the ones to decide the fate of worlds.

 

 

And also Karma. 

Yeah, I hope they not retcon in any way...

[VMeemes]

God I feel like I'm missing all the context by not playing the Renegade Route. And even then I feel like if I did I still wouldn't get it. Just don't have time for it, already likely have to restart my save because when I asked on a scale of 1-10 on how likely things are going to break Zumi said a good 8-9 just for this update alone for converted saves.

 

And I know my ass can't do Renegade, I'm too much of a completionist to purposely avoid content, even stuff I've already done. Does sound all rather interesting however.

[silverbolt0123]

Maybe I haven't played long enough with 13.5 (I'm only on the Hidden Library 3 sidequest rn) but is Karrina's backstory a plot hole now?

 

We learned a bunch of new Garufan lore from Maman Lost Souls sidequest, including the fact she (and her daughter) are sick because Garufans are cursed to live underground and being in the sun is a death sentence. But, Karrina's descended from Garufans and is actively aware of that lineage without issue, and Karen's implied to be Garufan as well and doesn't have any issues (well, physical issues). So is that something that's explained later?