Identities, Relationships and Small stuff [Spoiler Warning]

[Cyphre]

So, replayed v11 completely from scratch, and wanted to kinda sort some stuff i've noticed. 

First of all, the Surfboard guys. In v11 we learned, that out of 10 people in the epicenter of Miera tragedy, only 2 bodies were identified: first one is (was) a member of international police - Freya. I am absolutely sure, that the woman from Keta scenario was Freya, since in Aquamarine cave Saki mentions, that she was saved by a woman with orange hair on a white surboard. Therefore i can only come to one logical conclusion from this: the surf guy is none other than the second identifiable victim of Miera tragedy: Lord Xenadin, the Original Xen leader. 
 There is one problem with this though. Document clearly said, that the bodies were identified, meaning they werent just presumed dead, they were actually dead, unless document was fabricated. So, how are they alive? Are they alive at all? One very interesting detail was said by Crescent at Valor Mountain, something like "those who died are not truly gone, they have their own journey". Which might be a hint.

 Also this was mentioned only once and quickly forgotten when we arrive at GDC for the first time, however Rhodea's real name is Sandra, and the daughter of the Hiyoshi city mayor got the same name. So, presumably, Spacea and Tiempa took her before the calamity and made her a Storm Chaser. 

 Also it is now confirmed that Maman is Neved's wife, and Franchesca is his daughter, which is an interesting connection. Also it is interesting to note that every Xen admin talked in a group about their goals and why they joined team Xen.

The one thing that is weirding me out about the past time is geography. At first i thought that Oblitus town was the remains of Hiyoshi city, however at closer inspection it was clearly designed more like GDC, with similar paths and layouts. The weird thing here is, that the landslide, that blocked the route near Hiyoshi was, if i remember right, from Valor mountain. And unless the Storm-9 completely split the earth apart and made them separate regions, this doesnt make sense at all. Not to mention the position of the Altair mansion, which is, by now, deep in the Darchlight woods. So, judging the position, the Dreamyard, which we cannot enter yet, is the actual remains of the Hiyoshi city. 

 Nancy, i presume, was actually a maid - however, like Kanon, a maid with personality and emotions, which, for some reason, was summoned by Crescent. 

Just something i was reminded of: it was Kanon, who gave Vivian the garufan spellbook. Not sure what to think about that one yet, since Anju clearly didnt know about this. So im assuming it was Nymiera's idea. 

Nymiera recognized the "body" of our character as Adrest (i think), whoever it is. And it seems like it was someone close to her. 

Gregory, a.k.a. Geara, might be the child that was born in Voidal Chasm, and his father and mother were the couple from Gregorian lake. 



If you have any other interesting details or thoughts, please share. 


 

[Tomek]

Spoiler

What about Sirius (Narcissa's husband) being Vitus aka Indriad Theolia? and he supposedly died when Wispy tower burned up. but is that really true?
Also since replaying V11 i noticed how Madame X is actually trying to help Kanon in the past, and also Maria so she may actully be pretty much connected to them?
I find her motives and her goal actually puzzling?
Also I figured out Nim is actually Alexandra's sister from the dialogue in I think Amethyst cave?

 

[0ris]

23 minutes ago, Tomek said:

  Reveal hidden contents

What about Sirius (Narcissa's husband) being Vitus aka Indriad Theolia? and he supposedly died when Wispy tower burned up. but is that really true?
Also since replaying V11 i noticed how Madame X is actually trying to help Kanon in the past, and also Maria so she may actully be pretty much connected to them?
I find her motives and her goal actually puzzling?
Also I figured out Nim is actually Alexandra's sister from the dialogue in I think Amethyst cave?

 

Spoiler

 

Crazy idea: Madame X is actually the avatar of Xerneas, and Spacea and Tiempa are the avatars of Palkia and Dialga. For whatever reason, Xerneas has decided that in order for life to keep going, any number of non-vital people that get in her way need to die. Dialga and Palkia either have their own goals or are making it seem like they're working against Team Xen in order to recruit more suckers for their plan.

 

Pretty sure Nim is related to Nymiera somehow.

 

Vitus can teleport and stuff, and I'm starting to think he may be some kind of demon like the creature in the Narcissa quest. Indriad may be a man whom Vitus possesed. But, this is 90% speculation.

 

 

[Tomek]

20 minutes ago, 0ris said:

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Crazy idea: Madame X is actually the avatar of Xerneas, and Spacea and Tiempa are the avatars of Palkia and Dialga. For whatever reason, Xerneas has decided that in order for life to keep going, any number of non-vital people that get in her way need to die. Dialga and Palkia either have their own goals or are making it seem like they're working against Team Xen in order to recruit more suckers for their plan.

 

Pretty sure Nim is related to Nymiera somehow.

 

Vitus can teleport and stuff, and I'm starting to think he may be some kind of demon like the creature in the Narcissa quest. Indriad may be a man whom Vitus possesed. But, this is 90% speculation.

 

 

Spoiler

Well I think both Nim and Alexandra are descendants of Nymiera and sisters because in amethyst cave mission Alexandra mentions that she has sister who went on a training and that we may met her.
Also my crazy theory: There are multiple timelines. Our timeline, original one had all this happened: Vitus killed Anathea, "sacrificed" Maria in house, then moves to mansion, storm 9 happened and stuff like that.
Timeline we visit in past is different due to butterfly effect. Both the times we see Vitus and Marianette, the prologue, and the mansion where we battle for 3rd badge did NOT have Gardevoir. And since storm chasers were involved in changing past some stuff in past are going differently. It is possible that someone actually influenced both sides in the past we visit. Might be some kind of a game Spacea and Tiempa play?
Also few things I found interesting: In prologue we see Madame X visiting Maria and asking How many times is this going to happen. In the mansion where we fight for 3rd badge after we win Mariannete remembers what Madame X told her so that is the same Maria from prologue which I tend to believe is stuck in a time loop.
Madame X in some scenes seems very protective towards Melia and Kanon and shows doze of hostility towards Vitus/Indriad. 
 

 

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

1 hour ago, Tomek said:

  Reveal hidden contents

What about Sirius (Narcissa's husband) being Vitus aka Indriad Theolia? and he supposedly died when Wispy tower burned up. but is that really true?
Also since replaying V11 i noticed how Madame X is actually trying to help Kanon in the past, and also Maria so she may actully be pretty much connected to them?
I find her motives and her goal actually puzzling?
Also I figured out Nim is actually Alexandra's sister from the dialogue in I think Amethyst cave?

 

Alexandra clarifies that Nim isn't her biological sister, brother and sister are just terms her people (the Sashilans) use for each other.

1 hour ago, 0ris said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Crazy idea: Madame X is actually the avatar of Xerneas, and Spacea and Tiempa are the avatars of Palkia and Dialga. For whatever reason, Xerneas has decided that in order for life to keep going, any number of non-vital people that get in her way need to die. Dialga and Palkia either have their own goals or are making it seem like they're working against Team Xen in order to recruit more suckers for their plan.

 

Pretty sure Nim is related to Nymiera somehow.

 

Vitus can teleport and stuff, and I'm starting to think he may be some kind of demon like the creature in the Narcissa quest. Indriad may be a man whom Vitus possesed. But, this is 90% speculation.

 

 

Vitus could be Yveltal's avatar as well. His Garufan outfit matches Yveltal's colors similar to how Nymiera's crown outfit matches Xerneas's. That would also be another parallel between them if Nymiera and Vitus were the first humans created by Arceus.

[ShadeStrider]

Spoiler Warnings: The Topic.

[0ris]

38 minutes ago, Ice Cream Sand Witch said:

 

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Alexandra clarifies that Nim isn't her biological sister, brother and sister are just terms her people (the Sashilans) use for each other.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Vitus could be Yveltal's avatar as well. His Garufan outfit matches Yveltal's colors similar to how Nymiera's crown outfit matches Xerneas's. That would also be another parallel between them if Nymiera and Vitus were the first humans created by Arceus.

 

Spoiler

 

If Yveltal is Vitus: Either there are two Yveltals, or Madame X has managed to capture and enslave Vitus for her own purposes since Team Xen and the cultists seem to be opposed.

 

Indriad/Vitus appeared, free, in modern times during the Chrysalis manor events. Later, Yveltal was shown at Blacksteeple under the control of Madame X. In the past, after Storm 9 but before the present day, an Yveltal attacks Kenneth's family (some time after Indriad/Vitus appears as the radio tower director/Narcissa's husband) during the events of *Do You Remember Love?* I'm not sure which side sealing the reincarnation soul was supposed to benefit, but judging by the Rift Pokemon given to Deagan, Team Xen was aligned with Freya at some point (that is, unless Xen weren't the original source of Rift Matter). Team Xen would be the faction that wanted want Aelita incarnated. Yveltal removing Nora's soul when mistaking her for Aelita doesn't make any sense unless the Yveltal at that time wasn't working for Team Xen.

 

So, unless there are two Yveltal or X caught Vitus-Yveltal in between the Chrysalis events and the Blacksteeple incident, Indriad shouldn't be Yveltal. Of course, if the parallel/divergence timeline theory is correct, then that complicates things further. Another issue is the Xen (was it ever stated it was Xen? Not remembering for sure) base beneath Wispy Tower, which if Vitus/Indriad opposed Xen, it wouldn't make sense for there to be a base he knew about beneath the tower. 

 

 

[Cyphre]

Spoiler

About Nim, there is another possibility i find interesting. Damien constantly referring to Nim as "it", stating that she is not human. What if... what if Nim as actually the Archetype Nymiera told us about, and Alexandra managed to steal it from the second Blacksteeple castle?

Also im fairly sure Vitus is not Yveltal. Freya said that the Team Xen and their goals are similar, however not the same, and it was her who manipulated events for Aelita to be born, basically. Also notice one other thing: Cella told us, that the cloaked man who killed Taelia and Nova came back a few times. For what reason? And why he couldnt figure it out? It seems Madame X knows almost everything, how could she or her agent mistake the soul carrier like this? In my opinion, the Assassin was working alone. 

 

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

7 hours ago, 0ris said:

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If Yveltal is Vitus: Either there are two Yveltals, or Madame X has managed to capture and enslave Vitus for her own purposes since Team Xen and the cultists seem to be opposed.

 

Indriad/Vitus appeared, free, in modern times during the Chrysalis manor events. Later, Yveltal was shown at Blacksteeple under the control of Madame X. In the past, after Storm 9 but before the present day, an Yveltal attacks Kenneth's family (some time after Indriad/Vitus appears as the radio tower director/Narcissa's husband) during the events of *Do You Remember Love?* I'm not sure which side sealing the reincarnation soul was supposed to benefit, but judging by the Rift Pokemon given to Deagan, Team Xen was aligned with Freya at some point (that is, unless Xen weren't the original source of Rift Matter). Team Xen would be the faction that wanted want Aelita incarnated. Yveltal removing Nora's soul when mistaking her for Aelita doesn't make any sense unless the Yveltal at that time wasn't working for Team Xen.

 

So, unless there are two Yveltal or X caught Vitus-Yveltal in between the Chrysalis events and the Blacksteeple incident, Indriad shouldn't be Yveltal. Of course, if the parallel/divergence timeline theory is correct, then that complicates things further. Another issue is the Xen (was it ever stated it was Xen? Not remembering for sure) base beneath Wispy Tower, which if Vitus/Indriad opposed Xen, it wouldn't make sense for there to be a base he knew about beneath the tower. 

 

 

 

The events at Kristolica Palace (was it renamed Chrysalis Manor?) weren't in modern times. Maria was the Normal-type Gym Leader, but in the present there wasn't a Normal leader, as Melia was in the process of becoming one. And Maria didn't become the Normal leader after Melia's absence; there's an NPC in GDC who talks about the badges he doesn't have yet that says the pending Normal leader, Melia, is still missing. Jan also said in a thread a couple years ago that our gym battle with Maria was "illegal". 

 

In the true ending of Where Love Lies, Freya said she had no affiliation with the other entity after Keta and his family. She also says "Team Xen got in the way" during the true ending when talking about how she was going to put Keta out of his misery originally.

 

Also, something I forgot about is that in one of the alternate timeline branching paths, where Amber beats up on Melanie, Melanie calls on her father for help and that's when Yveltal shows up. 

[0ris]

2 hours ago, Ice Cream Sand Witch said:

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The events at Kristolica Palace (was it renamed Chrysalis Manor?) weren't in modern times. Maria was the Normal-type Gym Leader, but in the present there wasn't a Normal leader, as Melia was in the process of becoming one. And Maria didn't become the Normal leader after Melia's absence; there's an NPC in GDC who talks about the badges he doesn't have yet that says the pending Normal leader, Melia, is still missing. Jan also said in a thread a couple years ago that our gym battle with Maria was "illegal". 

 

In the true ending of Where Love Lies, Freya said she had no affiliation with the other entity after Keta and his family. She also says "Team Xen got in the way" during the true ending when talking about how she was going to put Keta out of his misery originally.

 

Also, something I forgot about is that in one of the alternate timeline branching paths, where Amber beats up on Melanie, Melanie calls on her father for help and that's when Yveltal shows up. 

Spoiler

 

Very interesting. There was stuff I definitely missed. I never realized Chrysalis (that's what it was called in the Pokemon guide for V10 iirc) was in the past. I didn't believe Freya when she said she wasn't connected to anyone else, but I must've just been going to fast too see her comment about Xen. I missed the Melanie scene since I think I got the right choice on the first try and didn't want to go through the Kenneth battle again. Melanie's father being Yveltal also means that Yveltal is Melia's father, and if Melia's father is Yveltal and Maria/Marianette's father is Yveltal, then Maria/Melia/Melanie are reincarnations of each other just like Vivian/Taelia/Aelita.

 

So, now, the big question is: how many Yveltals, or when was Indriad/Vitus Yveltal captured by Madame X? Unless he could revert to human form after being captured, the events in Wispy Tower are still a bit strange between the Xen base beneath the tower and Vitus's (as Sirius) knowledge about it.

 

As a timeline of Vitus/Indriad/Yveltal appearances, we have from earliest to most recent: Kugearen City incident, Hiyoshi City incident, Kristolica Palace (not sure), Wispy Tower director, Yveltal's attack on Sheridan, X's captured Yveltal on Blacksteeple, alternate modern day Yveltal coming to Melanie's rescue.

 

A rumor I read a while back said that Angie was the combination of Vitus and Anju. If that's correct, after the events on Blacksteeple we can add all incidents involving Angie but exclude the requirement of Yveltal and her being the same since Anju's body is linked to Regice rather than Yveltal. Ah, I love how complicated and interesting this game's plot is.

 

 

[Cyphre]

Spoiler

I think it's important, when exactly Chrysalis events happened. Clearly it was way after the other past events, since Vitus said that 2 people here seen how Anathea was killed, and Gardevoir is dead, and he also was able to install few other gates, statues, trick rooms, and it was really overgrown. Those things does not happen in just few years. So when exactly did that happen? How long Anju was trapped in there and when he did let her out as Angie? 

Also the matter of her son. He was a newborn baby in the Hyioshi events, meaning, unless he time travelled, he is around 45-50 at this point. Any ideas on who can be Anju's child? And what could happen to Hazuki? She was the only one proficient enough with a sword btw. 

And i really dont think that Nymiera and Vitus are Xerneas and Yveltal, mainly because of the story Nymiera told herself. The were created as humans, and pokemon appeared only after. Using archetype didnt seem to change that. 

 

[Mayflower896]

18 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I think it's important, when exactly Chrysalis events happened. Clearly it was way after the other past events, since Vitus said that 2 people here seen how Anathea was killed, and Gardevoir is dead, and he also was able to install few other gates, statues, trick rooms, and it was really overgrown. Those things does not happen in just few years. So when exactly did that happen? How long Anju was trapped in there and when he did let her out as Angie? 

Also the matter of her son. He was a newborn baby in the Hyioshi events, meaning, unless he time travelled, he is around 45-50 at this point. Any ideas on who can be Anju's child? And what could happen to Hazuki? She was the only one proficient enough with a sword btw. 

And i really dont think that Nymiera and Vitus are Xerneas and Yveltal, mainly because of the story Nymiera told herself. The were created as humans, and pokemon appeared only after. Using archetype didnt seem to change that. 

 

Spoiler

I know this a little far fetched, but my current theory is that Saki is Hazuki’s descendant (possibly granddaughter). There are two reasons why I think this; Saki and Hazuki share some similarities, such as having long black hair, Japanese names and using steel types (this one is not confirmed, but since Vivian and Anju use Rock and Ice types respectively, it wouldn’t be that crazy an assumption).  Saki’s signature move, at least in older versions, was called ‘Armoured Slash’, which doesn’t fit with Saki, but does with Hazuki. The most concrete part of this theory is that Thomas Blakeory said that he might marry Hazuki one day and join their fortunes. I still don’t have any ideas on who Anju’s child might be, though.

 

[Swampellow]

Spoiler

I think in terms of Vitus/Nymeria being Yveltal/Xerneas is less a matter of them actually being them, but the Pokémon are aspects of their power. Look at Anju/Vivian, they are not *actually* Regice/rock, and have been seen in the same place as the Pokémon in human form. It’s more than likely that it is a similar situation with the first two humans.

 

[0ris]

1 hour ago, Cyphre said:

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I think it's important, when exactly Chrysalis events happened. Clearly it was way after the other past events, since Vitus said that 2 people here seen how Anathea was killed, and Gardevoir is dead, and he also was able to install few other gates, statues, trick rooms, and it was really overgrown. Those things does not happen in just few years. So when exactly did that happen? How long Anju was trapped in there and when he did let her out as Angie? 

Also the matter of her son. He was a newborn baby in the Hyioshi events, meaning, unless he time travelled, he is around 45-50 at this point. Any ideas on who can be Anju's child? And what could happen to Hazuki? She was the only one proficient enough with a sword btw. 

And i really dont think that Nymiera and Vitus are Xerneas and Yveltal, mainly because of the story Nymiera told herself. The were created as humans, and pokemon appeared only after. Using archetype didnt seem to change that. 

 

Spoiler

 

A crackpot theory regarding Anju's son: He's Professor Jenner. No real reason for it other than he's the right age and seems like someone who grew up without a family. Have we seen the father of Anju's son anywhere? We haven't seen any guys with light blue hair around so I'm assuming that her son takes after the father. EDIT: As Swampellow said, the kid's probably Kreiss. I didn't even remember him, but my crackpot theory is way too crackpot. Disregard the struck-through text.

 

I'm pretty sure you're right about Hazuki being related to Saki. She even says something about her own "scrawny Japanese ass" at some point, and the only directly Japanese/Regional person I've seen so far has been Hazuki.

 

Placing the Chrysalis events is important in my opinion as well. Did it happen before or after Where Love Lies given the state of Chrysalis and the absence of Vitus during Kenneth's first visit to Gearen? If Xen has control over Yveltal since the end of Where Love Lies, that's a hard limit on when that event happened. If we keep Maria/Marianette as the seem person and aging normally, it's probably been about ten years since the Kugearen events judging by her age, which puts it before Where Love Lies if I'm remembering correctly.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by 0ris
Forgot that Kreiss even existed.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

1 hour ago, Cyphre said:

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I think it's important, when exactly Chrysalis events happened. Clearly it was way after the other past events, since Vitus said that 2 people here seen how Anathea was killed, and Gardevoir is dead, and he also was able to install few other gates, statues, trick rooms, and it was really overgrown. Those things does not happen in just few years. So when exactly did that happen? How long Anju was trapped in there and when he did let her out as Angie? 

Also the matter of her son. He was a newborn baby in the Hyioshi events, meaning, unless he time travelled, he is around 45-50 at this point. Any ideas on who can be Anju's child? And what could happen to Hazuki? She was the only one proficient enough with a sword btw. 

And i really dont think that Nymiera and Vitus are Xerneas and Yveltal, mainly because of the story Nymiera told herself. The were created as humans, and pokemon appeared only after. Using archetype didnt seem to change that. 

 

In the Wispy Ruins, the treasure chests tell the story of Griselda's kingdom and how she became Giratina. Since Griselda turned into a Pokemon, I think it's not impossible a few other humans are capable of transforming into one too. Possibly as a result of traumatic experience like with Griselda, or with some kind of magic.

[Cyphre]

 

5 minutes ago, Ice Cream Sand Witch said:

 

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In the Wispy Ruins, the treasure chests tell the story of Griselda's kingdom and how she became Giratina. Since Griselda turned into a Pokemon, I think it's not impossible a few other humans are capable of transforming into one too. Possibly as a result of traumatic experience like with Griselda, or with some kind of magic.

 

Spoiler

That is true, especially now that the other king became the Cofagrigus, however i doubt it in Vitus case. He clearly uses a lot of Garufan magic and sees pokemon as nothing more than tools, if notice them at all. I think for him to turn into a pokemon, however powerful, would be humiliating or despicable, and would not make sense at all. Especially if he was indeed the first human, which shouted that "we are better than pokemon, you dumbass Arceus" basically. 

Also i personally think this would be just a stupid plot device. I kinda accepted time travel, although it is one of my most hated plot devices, but if people will start turning into pokemon and vice versa, this would be just ridiculous for the plot, IMO. I already hate the idea that Spacea and Tiempa might be Dialga and Palkia, i really hope they are just in control of their powers somehow. 

 

[Swampellow]

15 minutes ago, 0ris said:

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A crackpot theory regarding Anju's son: He's Professor Jenner. No real reason for it other than he's the right age and seems like someone who grew up without a family. Have we seen the father of Anju's son anywhere? We haven't seen any guys with light blue hair around so I'm assuming that her son takes after the father.

 

I'm pretty sure you're right about Hazuki being related to Saki. She even says something about her own "scrawny Japanese ass" at some point, and the only directly Japanese/Regional person I've seen so far has been Hazuki.

 

Placing the Chrysalis events is important in my opinion as well. Did it happen before or after Where Love Lies given the state of Chrysalis and the absence of Vitus during Kenneth's first visit to Gearen? If Xen has control over Yveltal since the end of Where Love Lies, that's a hard limit on when that event happened. If we keep Maria/Marianette as the seem person and aging normally, it's probably been about ten years since the Kugearen events judging by her age, which puts it before Where Love Lies if I'm remembering correctly.

 

 

Spoiler

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe that Kreiss is Anju's son. Other than the obvious (Ice types), he is also from Neverwinter, which if I recall is where Anju is from. He is also somewhere in his 50s or 60s if I recall, which is the age range her son would have to be. It would also make sense as to why Angie kept him alive as opposed to freezing him, a small part of Anju remained uncorrupted and didn't want to kill him.

 

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

10 minutes ago, Swampellow said:

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I'm not 100% on this, but I believe that Kreiss is Anju's son. Other than the obvious (Ice types), he is also from Neverwinter, which if I recall is where Anju is from. He is also somewhere in his 50s or 60s if I recall, which is the age range her son would have to be. It would also make sense as to why Angie kept him alive as opposed to freezing him, a small part of Anju remained uncorrupted and didn't want to kill him.

 

In the past, Anju says she's from Kristiline Town. When Melia calls her Angie, Anju responds that her name is Anju but Angie is what her people in Kristiline call her. There's also an NPC in Kristiline who mentions that there was an Angie there a long time ago.

[Tomek]

Spoiler

I just now realized that Ambers dad is actually Deagan, Ketas brother. He was dark type gym leader and he went missing, but we all know what actually happened