Litten is dare I say..LIT

[Plot Armor]

I came back to Reborn just about a week or so ago and decided  to look up a walkthrough for it since its been a while and I didn't want to pick the BEST fire option being Blaziken so I decided why not I'll use an alolan mon.  Now I couldn't go Popplio because it most likely would struggle and I hate Rowlet so I decided why not Litten it is and holy arceus is it crazy well up until mid/late game but it really shows early.  It carried me in so many gyms and important fights mainly off of Darkest Lariet, Intimidate being a thing, and dark just being a solid strong type and I think it's one of the best dark types you get early.  It hits super hard as well.  Of course Fire Chicken is the best but what do you guys think about Litten being second best? I think it has so many great uses and great utility and a great ability to boot I'd say its one of my favorites going through Reborn with.  Thought this would be a fun topic to do!

[Destrakon]

25 minutes ago, Plot Armor said:

I came back to Reborn just about a week or so ago and decided  to look up a walkthrough for it since its been a while and I didn't want to pick the BEST fire option being Blaziken so I decided why not I'll use an alolan mon.  Now I couldn't go Popplio because it most likely would struggle and I hate Rowlet so I decided why not Litten it is and holy arceus is it crazy well up until mid/late game but it really shows early.  It carried me in so many gyms and important fights mainly off of Darkest Lariet, Intimidate being a thing, and dark just being a solid strong type and I think it's one of the best dark types you get early.  It hits super hard as well.  Of course Fire Chicken is the best but what do you guys think about Litten being second best? I think it has so many great uses and great utility and a great ability to boot I'd say its one of my favorites going through Reborn with.  Thought this would be a fun topic to do!

It all comes to tastes. For me, there's no doubt that the best Fire Type Starter is Blaziken hahahaha, Joke. Is not, It is Charizard. Having balanced stats and a decent speed. If from far the best partner one can ever get. Access to two Mega Evolutions, X and Y. Y, while being lower in Atk. has a great Sp. Atk, and it hits really hard on Sun weather, which is summoned by its ability. As for X, I love it, finally earning the so-wished Dragon Type, Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz are threatful alongside Tough Claws, this while not boosting them with Dragon Dance, acces to Thunderpunch to surprise water type. Earthquake, Brick Break, and many other usabel moves. This in-game, while in animated series, be it Movie, Ovas, Origins, Especials and the anime itself. I haven't seen another pokemon able to face Legendary Pokemon (Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Articuno, Entei) by itself as well many others Mega Evolved pokemon and being victorious. Also, participant in many other main battles (Blaziken, Greninja)

 

Maybe I'm overated it, but it's my favorite since I was child. Probably is guilty for my like to play pokemon games. But that's it. I'm not saying Incineroar or Blaziken are bad, no. they're really good, I run then in several playthough I have. But Charizard takes the spot.

 

EDIT: I guess I slipped off the topic, sorry.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Destrakon

[Plot Armor]

6 minutes ago, Destrakon said:

It all comes to tastes. For me, there's no doubt that the best Fire Type Starter is Blaziken hahahaha, Joke. Is not, It is Charizard. Having balanced stats and a decent speed. If from far the best partner one can ever get. Access to two Mega Evolutions, X and Y. Y, while being lower in Atk. has a great Sp. Atk, and it hits really hard on Sun weather, which is summoned by its ability. As for X, I love it, finally earning the so-wished Dragon Type, Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz are threatful alongside Tough Claws, this while not boosting them with Dragon Dance, acces to Thunderpunch to surprise water type. Earthquake, Brick Break, and many other usabel moves. This in-game, while in animated series, be it Movie, Ovas, Origins, Especials and the anime itself. I haven't seen another pokemon able to face Legendary Pokemon (Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Articuno, Entei) by itself as well many others Mega Evolved pokemon and being victorious. Also, participant in many other main battles (Blaziken, Greninja)

 

Maybe I'm overated it, but it's my favorite since I was child. Probably is guilty for my like to play pokemon games. But that's it. I'm not saying Incineroar or Blaziken are bad, no. they're really good, I run then in several playthough I have. But Charizard takes the spot.

 

EDIT: I guess I slipped off the topic, sorry.

I get you haha was talking more in Reborn and Charizard once its megas are in the game [Unless they are then oof ignore this] will probably be the best but Mega Blaziken still being a thing but getting a chose between Drought or a Dragon type is super stronk.  With the move tutors and everything available Charizard most likely becomes more viable in the late and is still strong early since D.Rage is opop so I'd say it's still second with the mega and Incineroar being third as it kinda falls off late because of that speed.

[Lil' Sunny]

guess i'm the only infernape fan then.

 

better speed out of the box than blaziken. great powerful moveset, balanced attacking stats making it great mixed or purely towards one side. learns fantastic coverage with elemental punches, grass knot, acrobatics etc. that thing carried me through my 2nd playthrough of reborn (i played a few years ago when E15 was the newest thing, then restarted in e17 because of the promising tweaks and additions. wasnt dissapointed)

 

now granted the mega evolution and moves like heat wave make charizard a great contender, and if it can survive a turn with speed boost blaziken is a monster in its own right. but don't forget who was the king of DP. 

 

 

[ShadeStrider]

If I could go through Reborn without evolving Torracat, I would. But, Infernape and Blaziken are objectively better picks, and I absolutely despise the Final Evolution to Litten's line. So there isn't a real reason for me to pick Litten.

 

Remove it from Smash Bros, and you perfect the roster of characters.

[Vinnie]

13 hours ago, MachoPony said:

guess i'm the only infernape fan then.

 

better speed out of the box than blaziken. great powerful moveset, balanced attacking stats making it great mixed or purely towards one side. learns fantastic coverage with elemental punches, grass knot, acrobatics etc. that thing carried me through my 2nd playthrough of reborn (i played a few years ago when E15 was the newest thing, then restarted in e17 because of the promising tweaks and additions. wasnt dissapointed)

 

now granted the mega evolution and moves like heat wave make charizard a great contender, and if it can survive a turn with speed boost blaziken is a monster in its own right. but don't forget who was the king of DP. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

It's not about fandom, but yeah Infernape is better for a playthrough of Reborn and even competitively(competitively within Reborn). People just THINK that Blaziken is better cause it's been in the ubers tier on smogon since BW2, but they don't think about what puts Blaziken in that tier or the fact that it's tier changes depending on the game you play(therefore it'd change for reborn too). 

 

The speed tier which you mentioned makes so much difference, not even including Infernapes much larger natural moveset. Taunt with a 108 speed tier, mach punch for priority to counter other priority, choice scarfers and whatever else may outspeed even you, nasty plot by level up?

 

Meanwhile Blaziken doesn't get protect until late game, meaning you either start a sweep against something slower than it or you don't have any opportunity at all. With higher attacking stats you do have a better chance at that, but you're also frail and you typically have to continuously get OHKO's to keep your speed boost going and if you get walled, then that's too bad, your boost is wasted. Swords dance isn't even in the game yet either, which means Blaziken has no access to it. The speed boost + sword's dance combo is what rocketed blaziken to ubers in the first place. Heck a lot of Blaziken's coverage moves such as stone edge or rock slide are late game as well.

 

Then there's the fact that Infernape gets CC which is more reliable(10 bp less) than Blaziken's HJK and in a game where there's lots of accuracy and evasion modifiers going around here and there, that also makes a difference. You could use superpower, but that'll cut any sweep short and ruin your boosts. Not to mention that late game Infernape gets to make full use out of choice items(and there is a way to get them all legally) while Blaziken gets stuck with a less powerful life orb or focus sashes that you'll have to replace often. 

 

 

 

So yeah, Infernapes the king. 

 

Spoilered because this does discuss what's available in-game and such.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Vinnie

[Monochrome_Complex]

On 2/22/2019 at 3:30 PM, ShadeStrider said:

If I could go through Reborn without evolving Torracat, I would. But, Infernape and Blaziken are objectively better picks, and I absolutely despise the Final Evolution to Litten's line. So there isn't a real reason for me to pick Litten.

 

Remove it from Smash Bros, and you perfect the roster of characters.

This is the wrongest thing I ever read

 

Incineroar rocks, I trained mine to be bulky and he was tough as hell, something fire types don't do too well really. I remember beating titania's aegislash solely because of Incineroar as aegislash foolishly went for shadow sneak on a low health incineroar, he survived, chuckled, and darkest lariated aegislash to oblivion. It was glorious. I remember intimidate being a part of my strat to beat garchomp too.

 

People who disrespect Incineroar shall never know true happiness.

 

[Destrakon]

I love these kind of topics, as everyone is sharing their opinion, but as I said before, for me, it all comes to which one do you like most. It goes far from being competitively, its more like which one do you trust most in a battle. In general, Charizard is good (Of course I love Charizard), Blaziken is good, Infernape is good, Incineroar is good as well as Delphox, Emboar and even Typhlosion which are not mostly used in competitive playing, but peoble still use them because they simply like them. 

[Monochrome_Complex]

I think people need to realize that competitive doesn't necessarily translate well to in-game too. like feraligtr isn't THAT great in reborn not just do to fields and being a water type, but also because the favorite competitive sets for him aren't available until very late in the game. Typhlosion neds up being better in reborn due to fields, similarly delphox and raw charizard benefit off the field system and have more effective movepools for the journey of the game.

[Des Teto]

I find beauty of Reborn because it made me discover many pokemons that I've never used before. I just had to work with them. It was rough at the beginning but it was for the best. So, I can understand why your love for Incineroar had to be shared ^^

 

Restarting the game is also a good way to make new acquaintances like this. This is maybe my top reason why I spend so much time playing it.

 

Oh, and if we're speaking competitively, we can talk VGC and Incineroar's top usage (it's first by the way). And considering the amount of double battles in this game, it comes as no surprise to me that Incineroar is a strong pick.

[interdiction]

I'd honestly go so far as to call Incineroar 2nd best. Intimidate, high bulk, good offensive moves (fire-type damage struggles until the 50s, though), fair Trick Room synergy (esp. if re-natured to Brave), decent type, Intimidate, Bulk Up via relearner, decent TM movepool (not many early TMs though), Intimidate...

 

Seriously, though, Intimidate on a decently bulky pokemon is insane in a game where double battles are common and difficult enough that you need to keep doubles strats in mind for your team. Infernape is probably the best fire starter at fast and strong immediate damage, Blaziken is Blaziken, and Typhlosion probably has the highest raw damage of all of them, but Incineroar is an excellent all-rounder pick. 

 

Also re: Feraligatr: I agree that Feraligatr has problems with good STAB moves and its best moveset either requiring heavy breeding (and being lucky enough to get Axew from the mystery egg if you want DDance especially early), mods that let you re-learn egg moves (which one could understandably consider cheating), or later-game Move Tutor access, but it still gets Sheer Force Crunch and Ice Fang pretty early and has a solid typing and bulk. Swampert, Primarina, and Greninja are all arguably better (Blastoise is OK, but the opportunity cost of not taking it is low due to it being one of the first-available starters, same with Empoleon, and Samurott sucks eggs), but it's not as terrible early as other late bloomer starters like Serperior.

[Paperblade]

Blaziken is just on its own level. It gets a decent boosting move at 31, has a good STAB combo in Blaze Kick and HJK, and with Shadow Claw it can cover most things that aren't taking at least neutral from its STABs. Later on it gets Thunder Punch, Stone Edge, and Poison Jab for the real perfect coverage, or you can just run Protect to ensure you outspeed everything. Infernape isn't bad, but Speed Boost combined with a boosting move means Blaziken just dunks half the fights in the game and that's not quite something Infernape can do. That doesn't mean Infernape is bad, and it does have the niche of being usually better on the first turn it's in, which is relevant since in any battle they participate there's always a first turn.

 

Delphox was a lot better before the update that introduced gen7, not because of gen7 changes, but because it also changed all of the monotype trainers that aren't gym leaders. Beforehand, Fire/Psychic STAB was good against Fern, Victoria, Cain, Corey, Kiki, and Blake, and could often still hit a weakness in fights where Delphox was disadvantaged (such as nuking Shade's Doublade). With Blake and the 3 rivals now only having about half their team being shared type (and Cain having an Alolan Grimer instead), Delphox lost a lot of value. It's still good because Fire is absurd though.

 

I like Feraligatr, although this in part because it still gets Agility by levelup which lets it utilize its middling Speed to still chunk through stuff and Sheer Force somewhat makes up for its lack of a good STAB option by turning Crunch and Ice Fang into effective 104 and 85BP moves respectively. If it got Aqua Tail at the same time as literally any other Water pokemon does it would probably be clearly the best Water.

 

Empoleon is maybe the worst starter in the game, and definitely the worst Water. Defog is a waste of a moveslot in Reborn unless it does a bunch of stuff to fields that I don't have memorized, and a bunch of moves it likes either require breeding (Agility) or are TMs that are super late (Toxic, Protect, Scald, Flash Cannon, Ice Beam). It even requires a Water Pledge tutor to have a good Water STAB pre-Surf. It can maybe utilize a physical set utilizing Swords Dance and Aqua Jet, but I think that's probably still worse than Samurott who has higher Speed and access to Aqua Tail pre-Waterfall. Plus Dewott gets Razor Shell super early which is great. Like, Meganium is bad but it gets dual screens and Venusaur gets powders + benefits from sun.

 

On 2/24/2019 at 1:53 PM, Teto said:

Oh, and if we're speaking competitively, we can talk VGC and Incineroar's top usage (it's first by the way). And considering the amount of double battles in this game, it comes as no surprise to me that Incineroar is a strong pick.

I laugh every time. It's been S rank in like every doubles format since it got Intimidate, and I think it was still like A+ before then.

 

It just has a really good stat distribution and its level up movepool is solid. But on top of that, its tutor movelist is a mile long so once you get to that point it can just hit whatever it wants for super effective.

 

But a big factor that contributes to it being so much better in doubles is that Stealth Rock is pretty much unused in that format compared to singles, and a slow, bulky pivot with no reliable recovery and a stealth rock weakness is just not great. But in Reborn, again, almost nothing uses Stealth Rock, so that drawback is negated just like it is in Doubles where Incineroar shines. I'd probably put it top 3 starters in Reborn, alongside Infernape and Blaziken.