Persona 5 "The Royal's" new redhead and "the Grinch" walk into a bar....

[Chase]

This is potentially not super newsworthy - but I don't see any mention of the first part of the titular meaning here on the forums yet. "Persona 5 R" is now officially "Persona 5: The Royal" and we will get more information on what seems to be the "Golden" or "FES" or whatever expanded edition of Persona 5 in exactly one month when the Super Persona Live Concert Event....Thing....happens.

 

In The Royal's trailer, we see a new girl in a Shujin Academy uniform - black blazer included - standing in the middle of Shibuya looking up at the Phantom Thieves logo on the big video board. In the background, we hear a male interviewer, presumably Goro Akechi, ask a female voice about her opinion on the Phantom Thieves. Interestingly, she only goes so far as to assert that helping others is a good and noble deed, before saying she actually dislikes the Phantom Thieves and asserts that the task of helping others should fall on ones self.

 

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I would like to posit this character's identity as Joker. YES. THAT Joker.

 

First, lets start with what the trailer itself gives us. The interview with presumably Akechi isn't totally unfounded to have been with a Female Joker, because a similar event takes place in original Persona 5 game. Joker isn't nearly as creative with his response as this female voice (presumably the redheaded ponytail girl the trailer lingers on) because of two reasons. The gameplay reason is that Persona protagonists speak in short one-liners, grunts, and exclamations and have their dialogue partners automatically respond to their chosen text options. The story reasoning however, is that Joker can only respond in the original game with options that range from sarcastic to full-on approval of the Phantom Thieves' actions. Here, the female voice's "dislike" could be interpreted as a measured response to keep Akechi off of her trail - seeing as she IS a Phantom Thief. And we know she's supposedly in Joker's position because JOKER is the one interviewed during the TV station field trip in the game - which mirrors the dialogue in the trailer. Her response is a bit lengthier than Joker's in the original game because its being voiced as opposed to selected from a text list, which allows her to craft a response that isn't robotic and can be wordier if need be.

 

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There are some strange differences however. This girl is a redhead with it done in a ponytail whereas Joker has a pretty awesome curly black mop and glasses. She also has a FIRST YEAR pin on her school uniform's lapel, where Male Joker is canonically a SECOND year student.

 

I don't think these two discrepancies disqualify her as a potential female protagonist however. Persona 3's extended content edition had a female protagonist option that looked nothing like Minato did, so Atlus absolutely doesn't have to make their female protagonists merely genderbent by precedent. Finally, not all of the Phantom Thieves are in the same class, so P5R can place Female Joker with other classmates even if she is a first year student.

 

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Finally, there's the part where the second part of the title comes in. A dataminer named Dr. Hypercake found some odd things in Joker's files in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. They noticed that Joker has a similar file composition as Robin, the Avatar unit from Fire Emblem: Awakening that can be either Male or Female in both FE:A as well as Smash. They found the files "JANE", "JACK", and within the "JANE" file they even discovered that there was room for a ponytail hairstyle somewhere in Joker's outfit kit.

 

That didn't make ANY sense, because Joker doesn't ever sport a man-pony in any P5 game he's featured in, even if he can have extensions in the Dancing in Starlight dance spinoff. However, if Joker all of a sudden has a toggleable gender coming with a trailer for P5R in April dropping at right about the same time Joker is introduced as a Smash character - it makes complete sense for a ponytail-sporting female to be found in Joker's roster spot as an alternate costume.

 

....and that's exactly what we have. Persona 5 the Royal's next trailer with more information AND Joker's Smash debut are going to drop fairly close to one another in April.

 

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Of course, that's not "PROOF" by any means that this new redhead is the FEMC of P5. She could just as easily be an additional confidante (for the Aeon persona like Marie was in Golden) or some kind of antagonist based on her dialogue. What do you all think?

 

 

 

[ShadeStrider]

I’m just looking at this game because I want to play Persona 5, and would like an enhanced version for the Switch rather than th PS3 one.

 

 

Until then, Persona 3 it is.

[Ulti]

Either way, i've got my hopes up for something good.

 

Personally,  i hope it's P5's equivalent to the Aeon arc. I wouldn't particularly mind a Femc, but I'd like something more than just getting a new set of Romance options and a gender swap.

 

It would also be cool if she was an antagonistic force in the metaverse. Kinda iffy how it's gonna work tho. 

 

 

[doombotmecha]

One of the things I'd like to point out about the mystery girl's response is that it's actually fairly on-brand for what the PTs are trying to do. Their broader goal is self-actualization, getting people to speak and act against corrupt authority. Thus, making it seem it's the job of the individual does kinda make sense.

[Chase]

16 hours ago, doombotmecha said:

One of the things I'd like to point out about the mystery girl's response is that it's actually fairly on-brand for what the PTs are trying to do. Their broader goal is self-actualization, getting people to speak and act against corrupt authority. Thus, making it seem it's the job of the individual does kinda make sense.

That is actually a pretty interesting point. One of the main themes the PTs have is struggling between busting down barriers people have by stealing the hearts of their oppressors... and stealing the hearts of high profile targets because it will increase their own renown. What that means is that in the beginning, the Phantom Thieves were really and truly "altruistic" - but if people depend on the Phantom Thieves too much the PTs were liable to lose that altruism's authenticity.

 

For "Jane" to respond in a manner of "Yeah, helping others is cool and all, but each and every one of us should be benevolent to others instead of praising this vigilante group for doing so" is not only a creative diversion-y answer to someone like Akechi, but is also a meta statement IF "Jane" really is Joker.

 

If it actually ISN'T Joker who is saying this, then "Jane" is being set up as a Makoto-esqe recurring foil to the Phantom Thieves in a unique way, by directly opposing the motivations of PhanSite operator and superPhan Mishima (who works hard in order to generate fame and hype for the group). That isn't disappointing either, because I think that's one of the game's best themes.

[Amethyst]

i would be very surprised if she were FeMC rather than Aeon-esque, to the point that i don't really dare hope for as much... though i would really like an option for that. red head is bonus...

...but.

if she is FeMC

those mother fuckers better let us date the girls still or i will sue

[Chase]

I'll be honest, I think she's a FeMC because the difference between her and a normal Shujin Academy female student seems to just be her protagonist hair (which is GORGEOUS, sidenote.) - which contrasts with the other female confidants around her age (aside from Hifumi, who doesn't attend Shujin.)  Ann pretty much wears street clothes and very loosely adheres to dress code, Makoto doesn't wear the blazer and opts or a vest instead. Haru seems to wear the PE uniform. LIke AkiRen (Joker), she wears the school uniform as it seems it should be worn -and- is rocking the turtleneck.

 

There's also the way the trailer was shot. We're pretty accustomed to seeing the busy city square in Shibuya as a backdrop of Joker's. It's the place where he first sees the outline of Arsene, the inner self of his that yearns for rebellion. The location has significance for the protagonist - so it makes sense to draw comparisons based on the setting.

 

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However, I will concede, because I have to, that there is no definitive proof. It's odd that she's a first year student. It's odd that she doesn't seem to vouch for the PTs, and even Smash - with its odd leaked information - could use Royal-chan as a alt while still not being indicative of being Royal's protagonist (although, she'd HAVE to use an Arsene-like Persona if that's something Joker can do in Smash...right?)

 

It's very possible she's the protagonist of an epilogue or alternative story - such as P3's 'The Answer'.

[doombotmecha]

If we do get a "the answer" type questline, I seriously wonder what it would entail. Like, there aren't really any plot threads hanging loose.

[Chase]

The first thing that comes to MY mind as to what an alternative story would look like - involves rescuing the OTHER Phantom Thieves (assuming she's not one in the main campaign) when Bad Ending AkiRen strikes a deal with Not-Igor after he is revealed to be Yaldaboath instead. However, it does kind of imply that the "Fridge horror' (or a potentially scary thought from an otherwise harmless story maneuver) would actually be plot and not just a thinking player's reaction.

 

Spoiler

There are several variations of "Bad endings" to Persona 5 that entail failing to clear the specific palaces by the date given in the upper right hand corner. Most of them involve the police busting down the door of Leblanc and apprehending AkiRen with Sojiro reacting in different degrees of concern depending on just how badly the player sucked at the game, along with not-so-happy explanations on how Joker was ratted out (such as a drugged up Makoto being apprehended in a club working for Kanashiro). However, there is a scripted bad ending with a cutscene that only happens if Joker cuts a deal with "Igor" instead of opposes him like the Trickster he technically is. In it, Joker is freely let out of his Velvet Prison to a world in which the Phantom Thieves are at peak fame and revered. AkiRen pushes up his glasses with a sinister smirk on his face and walks away.

 

The "fridge horror" that accompanies this scene is that Joker leaves his very real friends imprisoned in the Velvet Room, a place that exists between mind and matter, dream and reality. This isn't just riding off on a shady train out of Inaba with Adachi's shit-eating grin popping up in the window because the fog is still over the town. It's the realization that you left your teammates to rot while you went out to revel in your joint efforts.

 

It just seems like Royal-chan makes a great anti-heroine if her trailer sequence isn't meant to hint at her being a FeMC. Someone who exists in a timeline where the Phantom Thieves (or just the ringleader) succumb to personal desire and are no better than the Palace rulers whose hearts they stole.

[Godot]

Something oddball is that Joker info for smash is seemingly hinting that it will drop soonish.  So some of the Jane stuff may be rumors and not facts.

 

[Chase]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 11:15 PM, G'doots said:

Something oddball is that Joker info for smash is seemingly hinting that it will drop soonish.  So some of the Jane stuff may be rumors and not facts.

 

 

See, I was tracking with you two weeks ago because I kind of thought that we would possibly get an April Direct within the remainder of Reggie's final two weeks working for the big N - and it was right around the time we started to see Best Buy leaking Smash Joker's render potentially in their advertisements.

 

And now its April 15th - there wasn't a Direct earlier this week, and Reggie is closing up shop today.

 

Furthermore, we're now only a week and a half away from more news about the Royal - and now supposedly Persona 5 "S"......which most people are thinking is a Switch port of the original release with a few Nintendo enhancements. Regarding this "P5S" - Atlus actually does have a website domain for it (p5s.jp) that seems like an official announcement when more news on whatever it is will show up - on the 25th - or the second day of the Persona concert.

 

I think the assumption may have been in the Smash community that Version 3.0 was going to drop earlier in the month. Is it possible that Nintendo is waiting on Atlus to make their announcements first? Especially if there -IS- going to be a Switch port announced, and ESPECIALLY if part of Joker's data is information we shouldn't know about yet? - it would make sense. There's still time for 3.0 to be released in April after the fact.

 

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Some more news about the Royal isn't out yet because its not yet the 24th, but there has been some potential leaks as to who Royal-chan is. P5R is said to be an enhanced version of the original release, with a female protagonist option that isn't Royal-chan, and that has 20 hours of more playtime with Royal-chan as a central character in the new game's plot.

 

That's pretty interesting, and if true, we don't know if Royal-chan is a Smash rep for Persona at all because it could her OR the new protagonist (and yes, still probably only the male Joker we already know about) depending on when Joker DOES find his way to Smash Bros.