Swift Swim, Exadrill and Chandelure

[Kamina]

@ Allan

Again this is for a discussion i have given reasons and if you disagree i would like to hear valid reasons as well. Please refrain from posting if you don't have anything useful to say.

@ swimming

how does Conculdurr counter Chand? 252+ SpA Chandelure Overheat vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 322-379 (84.51 - 99.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

one hit ko after stelthrocks

T tar is like the only pursuiter in OU and scizor but that would mean chand was not stuck on a fire move

Now a days exadrill runs Iron head/ Return/ Eathquake which hits every type neutrally except bronzong and skarmory which can trapped and killed by a chand.

Shed shelling bronzong is out of the option because leftovers are its only move of recovery and to force people to run a shed shell skarm in every team is over centeralizing the metagame

[Hyouka]

Shadow tag is the problem not Chand. Jussayian

[Kamina]

Yah you right but its shadow tag on chand thats the problem not shadow tag on gothella but maybe i should have made that more clear in the start.

heard of rule 1? your an auth and i dissapoint

[Hyouka]

I'm not trying to disrespect you personally. I Just think that threads about this subject are stupid.

You're

[Noivy]

I can just see this getting locked. So many people butting heads like goats during mating season.

[Hyouka]

every tier "discussion" thread

[Swimming95]

I run a full HP/sp Def conkeldurr and Chandy barely 2KOs that...

In my opinion, excadrill is only op when you let him set up... if he doesn't... he is pretty beatable

Excadrill normally runs:

Swords Dance

Earthquake

Rock Slide

Iron Head/X-Scissor/Return

Meaning that no matter which one is chosen, there is a gap in its coverage. If it forgoes Swords dance for another one of those moves, even easier to take it out.

EDIT: Either way, it is the abilities that you are finding broken, not the pokemon

[Mashew]

At this point it's getting to that time again where this might get closed so please be careful.

To be on topic, you keep saying the majority wants it but from the poll, there's only.. 2 more votes for yes. So there seems to be a bit less than the majority who does/doesn't want it.

[Cowtao]

Okay. I just wanna summarize everyone's views because this thread is getting overboard IMO. I still hold steady to all of my opinions I have said earlier but I just wanna say this because I am getting more and more annoyed this thread is progressing further.

First. I agree with banning some of these pokemon as this kills creativity. It's basically building a set that takes next to no effort, slapping on a few filler pokemon to sub in and protect your overpower pokemon and completely whale the opposition. When people suggest to use this and that to counter this set, think about this for a minute. Out of how many people are gonna know that they are running a Swift Swim Ludicolo or Chandelure ST and will run a pokemon that has to counter it? Essentially, these pokemon are killing creative patterns of pokemon to use. This is why you don't see pokemon like Kyurem-B, Reuniclus, Amoonguss, and etc. running around in the Reborn Metagame because there are overpowered creations ruining it. Also, for people saying to "make better sets," frankly sir we are not you. It's wrong to assume we should make better sets in time because even with time we are gonna make a team that will flop and do terribly. These bans would at least be justified to at least appease to a more skill based meta. But to also be fair, this doesn't mean that we must ban the whole pokemon. Ludicolo is just fine without it's Swift Swim, FF Chandy is just fine, and SF Excadrill although a bit OP in concept will leave it open for many speedy threats to completely lobotomize it out. Think of it like this. Think of Toyman from the Justice League. He isn't very powerful at all but suddenly when he builds himself a giant movable death ray robot that he can manual control her can conquer all. Take that away from him and he's just another villain to fight. That's essentially what most of these threats are.

Finally, with the rain, sand, and sun abusers. Who cares really? Frankily, we've had Volcarona, Keldeo, Landorus-I, and others swept under the radar because most were just focused on what is plainly broken. But, now after we've figured out what is broken we are soon gonna begin to wavering our fingers at what abuses the weather once we get rid of all the broken things. Why? Because of how damn competitive pokemon has become and how it is evolving with weather. Weather is a controversial subject and has brought many topics into hold of what is and what is overpowered. Most people would subject to say to just use Clear Skies tier but that's just a cunning way of saying you are an idiot for not noticing this to the competitive side. It would be nice if we could promote that style instead of using the weather as it does lead to more creativity, skill, and a bit of chance into building a set for the Reborn meta. The broken abusers stand out like a soar thumb but once we are done with those we are gonna start pointing our fingers to whatever a hyped up competitive person is constantly being killed by. The fact is, if we ban one thing, we are gonna get more stingy and grumpy about something else that's been killing off a lot of us. And that is what's leading to Landorus-I's ban and Keldeo's 2nd Suspect test in the meta besides Reborn and PO.

I'm sorry for carrying this subject on like a dead horse while beating it with another dead horse but i'm just tired of seeing this. I just want this to end so we can start battling for fun and for keeps. Not for some ridiculous high score to reach or a reputation for being unstoppable. Sorry to ramble on about this, i'm outta here for good on this subject. Adios.

[Neo]

This isn't a "I don't like losing to this, ban it" thread.

Whether you like battling against the strategy is irrelevant.

This is also hardly a fucking discussion with some of the responses we're getting.

"Although I would like to see more people laddering in CS it will not fix the fact that OU is broken here and should be fixed. I do remember such an agreement but after having more experience in the tier my opinion about swift swim and sand rush have evolved and I no longer see any need for keeping either of them when it is so apparent that they make this meta-game stale."

So you admit that CS is the solution. The discussion ends there. It's not a matter of "But mommy if he I don't get it, then he can't either.".

That is, the entire gist of your argument. Taking steps to popularize CS would give those who absolutely feel the need to ladder a weather free place to ladder, while others can still enjoy using whatever we damn well please in OU.

[Kamina]

@ who ever closed the thread I was never disrespectful and thread should not be closed because of other people who can’t have a decent discussion

@ Neo

Lol I never said that CS was the solusion I just said I would not mind having CS popularity increase. Cool down seriously didn’t you make that tread about being a good citizen (such a hypocrite xD)? I ladder you don’t period and im pretty daym good at it. People who don’t ladder should never have a say in ladder especially if their only reason is aww it takes away my identity (sad face) kk you can lock it now

[Amethyst]

So this was closed as well because once again we're getting a bit too heated I guess.

Rather than just leaving this unresolved, allow me to say this:

I think the primary problem is actually not anything to do with the Pokemon themselves, but the fact that we have two groups of interests here that are being forced into competition with each other and each trying to prove their own points.

One group is interested in having a rounded competitive environment

The other is interested in having a lax and casual tiering system as we always have

Now regardless of the details of which way we really go, I think we need to decide as a community what our goals are going to be, and act only once those are established. This is something that, in light of the continued animosity topics like these tend to fester, the staff needs to decide- or if we can cater to both sides, a la implementing smogon tiers alongside our own for sixth gen or something.

For now, chillax. The statuses too.