Some of the Champion in this game feels overtuned and unfair.

[Vhein]

Hi,

 

This will be a  long post so bear with me. TL;DR at the end.

 

This is somewhat a rant, but also a critical feedback, and i'll try to stay as objective as possible. Plus i'm not native english, you may see some errors here and there, pardon my french. I need to mention this only apply to normal difficulties because i never tried Insane ( and seeing how much my experience with the champions in this game is overall, i'll never try it, unless i become masochist ).

 

I need to insist on the fact that, even tho i could be playing on easy, i find most of the other champion " Ok " in difficulties, only thoses three are a big problem to me because of how overtuned and unfair they feel.

 

Alright, so, as the title suggest, there is at least 3 champions in this game that made me infuriated while playing because they feel really unfair and overtuned. Unless you got somewhat of a miracle ( rng based ) or the exact setup and team you're screwed against those guys imo, those three are :

 

-Crawli

-Angie

-Ryland

 

I'll get through each and everyone of them while giving out my thought on why they are so broken.

 

Crawli :

 

Probably the less overtuned of the three, my main complain here come from the drizzle ( and will extend to field with angie ).

But first, i must laid out what i'm thinking of the field in general, because the two subject ( overtuned and field ) are closely tied.

 

Fields are in my opinion a good idea, but only when it doesn't reduce and annihilate your OPTIONS, or choice if you want.

My main concern with field in general is how they reduce your options as a player, imo, NEVER EVER a game ( for that fact, any game ) should reduce the player's options, field of possibilities, strategies applicable, etc...

 

And some field have that big big flaws where one type of pokemon is utterly destroyed to the ground never to be used in the whole fight, even when they should be super effective. You're then left with less options of supper effective move that you would normally have and thus, reducing your options. I will mention how the buffs given to the champion's type are sometimes overtuned too. Keep in mind this is just my opinion.

 

Quick example that will finally take Crawli's fight for exemple :

 

I choose a fire starter ( sh*ta** typhlosion, yeah ikr ), and brought another fire pokemon for crawli, i like these pokemon for instance and wanted to use them.

But, no no no, you won't play fire because the drizzle is here ruining your entire setup, and when you realize that you're set to change some of your pokemon, pex other you never wanted to use just to win this fight. Thus, wasting time while

experiencing the great story of this game.

 

Apart from that, Crawli's mostly ok even tho i hate double battles ( but that's not the point ).

 

Angie

Now, the same thing for crawli's apply : your fire pokemon are trash in this fight, thus again, limiting your option, thus being extremely unfair, etc... Already said that with Crawli.

 

The real problem here for Angie is how much BUFFS she gets.

 

Her field gives her +50% damage on ice moves ( which is INSANE ), activates move like slush rush which are made available in Hail or Snow Warning for a good reason considering how powerful they are, and make Hail and Snow Warning last for 8 turns.

It nullifies some fire pokemon special ability, thus reducing again the interest of bringing a fire type pokemon, plus, it reduces their damage by a whopping 50%, dayum.

 

Let me break down what it means for her ices moves real quick :

 

Assuming you have 200hp and a type that isn't especially weak again ice, if a moves would normally do something like 80 hp on your pokemon, here it would do 120 damage.

 

Here i assume that everyone's know what STAB is, but basically, this means that each and every of the ice moves used under those circumstance are 2x in power, from the regular 1.5x. Unless it's calculated otherwise, but you get the picture : even tho a pokemon isn't weak to the type, it takes an immense amount of damage ( i can't count the number of time my throh got 70% -  0% in one cold truth against her ).

 

And i don't think that the 20% buffs for the dark type is really relevant for most the fight...

 

And i'll do the same for fire type against her :

 

Assuming a move should do 160hp or more considering this is supereffective ( and i'm very generous here because the reality is some of her pokemon wouldn't even take 40% of their total life after a flamethrower ), 50% less damage means the follow :

 

You would deal effectively 80hp with your fire move. Basically nothing for a supereffective moves.

 

To tell the truth, i used a stupid pokemon, which deals no damage, werent even good against her in any way to change the field with flame burst, and that's the only way i could win this fight at all.

 

Ryland

For this fight ( which im currently stuck on ), it totally blew my mind when i read the field effect manual.

 

This field gives him a astronomous +50% in SP DEF, considering his team is filled with bulky pokemon who have a high defense stat, this is ... I don't even know, damage dealt on them is so low both on the special plan and the physical plan.

 

This fight have so many thing going on, but i'll try to stay consistent :

 

First, his sig move ; already does all of his pokemon get a straight up 50% in sp def and are bulky, the sig moves remove your STAB by making you a ground type ( thus, reducing your damage ), deals a lot of damage each turn, and prevent you from switching...

 

This removes the possiblity of strategies involving swapping and offensive pivot, and nerf your damage a lot, rendering your attacks on some of his pokemon hit like a wet wipes.

 

His attacks are buffed the same way that angie had, +50%.

 

Water type are getting the nice -50% treatement, rendering them useless ( not against mega camerupt tho )

 

Priority moves FAIL, removing the possiblity of finishing off a low hp opponent.

 

FINAL WORD

In the end, i don't ask for a massive nerf, but it would be cool and less frustrating if things could be a bit more tuned down, for exemple, amber fight's have a +10% damage buff on fire move and water move only deals -10% damage, this is OK for me, it doesn't removes options ; it only make some a bit better than the other.

 

I wan't to add that, everything i cited in my post isn't necessary overtuned by themselves; it's the combination of everything that make those things overtuned and unfair imo. The quick fix i would give for that is reducing down every +50% -50% to +15%~+10% and -15%~~-10%.

 

Hope this was a good post, i'm kinda tired after trying so hard for Ryland, but i tried my best to stay consistent.

 

TL;DR

 

+50% damage on champions type and -50% on supereffectives type against the champions is unfair and overtuned, adding up to the already big buffs the field gives them.

 

Options and Choice should not be cut down, but Oriented.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fredzard]

I know your pain,because I had problems with Angie,but it's all strategy(Honestly,I find Southa a bit harder than the other two):

-Crawli:

I choose Charmander like starter,but I captured Rockruff-Lycanroc,so 3 of his 4 Pokémon were down with Rock Slides

-Angie:

Here,in last versions,she has double Battle with a fast Beartic and A-Ninetales with Aurora Veil,so take a Pokémon with Thunder Wave,Brick Break and something to change the field in a normal Rift Field.

-Ryland:

Take Water-Grass Types and a Pokémon with Knock Off,for Rhyoerior,for example(this I fought one time)

[Vhein]

3 minutes ago, Fredzard said:

I know your pain,because I had problems with Angie,but it's all strategy(Honestly,I find Southa a bit harder than the other two):

-Crawli:

I choose Charmander like starter,but I captured Rockruff-Lycanroc,so 3 of his 4 Pokémon were down with Rock Slides

-Angie:

Here,in last versions,she has double Battle with a fast Beartic and A-Ninetales with Aurora Veil,so take a Pokémon with Thunder Wave,Brick Break and something to change the field in a normal Rift Field.

-Ryland:

Take Water-Grass Types and a Pokémon with Knock Off,for Rhyoerior,for example(this I fought one time)

He doesn't have rhyoperior and angies dont have ninetales, i'm playing on normal not intense. Plus my post is more about how these combats feels and how they lesser your options. But thx for the tips ( i beated ryland by the time )

[nhehvnukl]

44 minutes ago, Vhein said:

Hi,

 

This will be a  long post so bear with me. TL;DR at the end.

 

This is somewhat a rant, but also a critical feedback, and i'll try to stay as objective as possible. Plus i'm not native english, you may see some errors here and there, pardon my french. I need to mention this only apply to normal difficulties because i never tried Insane ( and seeing how much my experience with the champions in this game is overall, i'll never try it, unless i become masochist ).

 

I need to insist on the fact that, even tho i could be playing on easy, i find most of the other champion " Ok " in difficulties, only thoses three are a big problem to me because of how overtuned and unfair they feel.

 

Alright, so, as the title suggest, there is at least 3 champions in this game that made me infuriated while playing because they feel really unfair and overtuned. Unless you got somewhat of a miracle ( rng based ) or the exact setup and team you're screwed against those guys imo, those three are :

 

-Crawli

-Angie

-Ryland

 

I'll get through each and everyone of them while giving out my thought on why they are so broken.

 

Crawli :

 

Probably the less overtuned of the three, my main complain here come from the drizzle ( and will extend to field with angie ).

But first, i must laid out what i'm thinking of the field in general, because the two subject ( overtuned and field ) are closely tied.

 

Fields are in my opinion a good idea, but only when it doesn't reduce and annihilate your OPTIONS, or choice if you want.

My main concern with field in general is how they reduce your options as a player, imo, NEVER EVER a game ( for that fact, any game ) should reduce the player's options, field of possibilities, strategies applicable, etc...

 

And some field have that big big flaws where one type of pokemon is utterly destroyed to the ground never to be used in the whole fight, even when they should be super effective. You're then left with less options of supper effective move that you would normally have and thus, reducing your options. I will mention how the buffs given to the champion's type are sometimes overtuned too. Keep in mind this is just my opinion.

 

Quick example that will finally take Crawli's fight for exemple :

 

I choose a fire starter ( sh*ta** typhlosion, yeah ikr ), and brought another fire pokemon for crawli, i like these pokemon for instance and wanted to use them.

But, no no no, you won't play fire because the drizzle is here ruining your entire setup, and when you realize that you're set to change some of your pokemon, pex other you never wanted to use just to win this fight. Thus, wasting time while

experiencing the great story of this game.

 

Apart from that, Crawli's mostly ok even tho i hate double battles ( but that's not the point ).

 

Angie

Now, the same thing for crawli's apply : your fire pokemon are trash in this fight, thus again, limiting your option, thus being extremely unfair, etc... Already said that with Crawli.

 

The real problem here for Angie is how much BUFFS she gets.

 

Her field gives her +50% damage on ice moves ( which is INSANE ), activates move like slush rush which are made available in Hail or Snow Warning for a good reason considering how powerful they are, and make Hail and Snow Warning last for 8 turns.

It nullifies some fire pokemon special ability, thus reducing again the interest of bringing a fire type pokemon, plus, it reduces their damage by a whopping 50%, dayum.

 

Let me break down what it means for her ices moves real quick :

 

Assuming you have 200hp and a type that isn't especially weak again ice, if a moves would normally do something like 80 hp on your pokemon, here it would do 120 damage.

 

Here i assume that everyone's know what STAB is, but basically, this means that each and every of the ice moves used under those circumstance are 2x in power, from the regular 1.5x. Unless it's calculated otherwise, but you get the picture : even tho a pokemon isn't weak to the type, it takes an immense amount of damage ( i can't count the number of time my throh got 70% -  0% in one cold truth against her ).

 

And i don't think that the 20% buffs for the dark type is really relevant for most the fight...

 

And i'll do the same for fire type against her :

 

Assuming a move should do 160hp or more considering this is supereffective ( and i'm very generous here because the reality is some of her pokemon wouldn't even take 40% of their total life after a flamethrower ), 50% less damage means the follow :

 

You would deal effectively 80hp with your fire move. Basically nothing for a supereffective moves.

 

To tell the truth, i used a stupid pokemon, which deals no damage, werent even good against her in any way to change the field with flame burst, and that's the only way i could win this fight at all.

 

Ryland

For this fight ( which im currently stuck on ), it totally blew my mind when i read the field effect manual.

 

This field gives him a astronomous +50% in SP DEF, considering his team is filled with bulky pokemon who have a high defense stat, this is ... I don't even know, damage dealt on them is so low both on the special plan and the physical plan.

 

This fight have so many thing going on, but i'll try to stay consistent :

 

First, his sig move ; already does all of his pokemon get a straight up 50% in sp def and are bulky, the sig moves remove your STAB by making you a ground type ( thus, reducing your damage ), deals a lot of damage each turn, and prevent you from switching...

 

This removes the possiblity of strategies involving swapping and offensive pivot, and nerf your damage a lot, rendering your attacks on some of his pokemon hit like a wet wipes.

 

His attacks are buffed the same way that angie had, +50%.

 

Water type are getting the nice -50% treatement, rendering them useless ( not against mega camerupt tho )

 

Priority moves FAIL, removing the possiblity of finishing off a low hp opponent.

 

FINAL WORD

In the end, i don't ask for a massive nerf, but it would be cool and less frustrating if things could be a bit more tuned down, for exemple, amber fight's have a +10% damage buff on fire move and water move only deals -10% damage, this is OK for me, it doesn't removes options ; it only make some a bit better than the other.

 

I wan't to add that, everything i cited in my post isn't necessary overtuned by themselves; it's the combination of everything that make those things overtuned and unfair imo. The quick fix i would give for that is reducing down every +50% -50% to +15%~+10% and -15%~~-10%.

 

Hope this was a good post, i'm kinda tired after trying so hard for Ryland, but i tried my best to stay consistent.

 

TL;DR

 

+50% damage on champions type and -50% on supereffectives type against the champions is unfair and overtuned, adding up to the already big buffs the field gives them.

 

Options and Choice should not be cut down, but Oriented.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, you can always change the weather. A lot of fire types gets sunny day (which cheeses crawli completly as it changes the field into rainbow field but nvm that) and if you mine dilligently, you probs have a heat rock to make it so his field basiclly doesnt exist for 8 turns. Angie is dumb, but she's supposed to be (and ice still has, like 5 other weaknesses and no real resists so whateves) so nvm her, and Ryland is pretty difficult, but he's an endgame fight so its not that bad.

[Tomek]

I beat Ryland thanks to my stash od 50 revival herbs LMAO

[Vhein]

3 minutes ago, Tomek said:

I beat Ryland thanks to my stash od 50 revival herbs LMAO

pretty much what i used to beat him, but it didnt felt good.

[Tomek]

Same here, I was playing after midnight and was super sleepy so I didnt wanna bother with thinking about strategy for this guy so I just uses some revival herbs altough I didnt use much of those.

[Alisae]

champions btw

[ThatGuyHanzo]

I get your pain, (although i 1shot Ryland and i kind of wish i didn't, i feel left out of how hard the fight apparently was), but what i do is just train 12-30 pokemon to max level. That way you always have options for beating any obstacle (helll yes its a grind, but its worth it). Also for the record 12 pokemon being changed as you progress should be PLENTY even though i have a full box of level 85 mons  Imo nefing the leaders would ruin the fun for the people who like the challenge which is the main group of people this game is trying to target. Maybe Ryland should be nerfed but i cant talk about that since i got lucky (?)

[DanelerH]

Personally, the only trouble I had with Ryland was his Torterra.  Once I found out my Hariyama could get off a Belly Drum to outspeed and one-shot both Torterra and Claydol with Knock Off, the battle was pretty easy.

 

Against Crawli, I usually don’t have trouble with him.  You want the ability to use Fire again?  Just use Sunny Day and start one-shotting his entire team.  The Rainbow Field even overwrites the Forest Field.  Give your Sunny Day Pokemon a Heat Rock and it should last the whole battle.  The only reason I had issues with him in my current run is because I’m doing a Mono-Normal Intense No Items challenge.  The only Normal that gets Wide Guard by level up is Regigigas.  Fortunately, Terajuma offers a Castform for Sunny Day.

 

Angie I admit I usually do have issues with, but that’s just because it’s a difficult fight.  So what if I can’t use Fire?  Ice is weak to plenty of other things.  Your point of “limited options” is hardly relevant here.

[Rainlove]

Angie is not as difficult right now as she used to in previous episodes. Her team always out-speed all my Pokemons, and she used to have a Froslass that always OHKed everything. Valerie, on the other hand, was a nightmare! It was probably my least favorite battle because I literally tried everything and couldn't defeat her bulky team, and eventually did the revive and repeat method with Fennel Cakes. She was also nerfed. Crawli is really difficult because of his special move, his field, and Arquanid (grr).  I appreciate the difficulty system a lot in Rejuvenation. 

[Fredzard]

9 hours ago, Vhein said:

He doesn't have rhyoperior and angies dont have ninetales, i'm playing on normal not intense. Plus my post is more about how these combats feels and how they lesser your options. But thx for the tips ( i beated ryland by the time )

Strange,I'm in easy but there are that Pokémons

[Vhein]

13 hours ago, ThatGuyHanzo said:

I get your pain, (although i 1shot Ryland and i kind of wish i didn't, i feel left out of how hard the fight apparently was), but what i do is just train 12-30 pokemon to max level. That way you always have options for beating any obstacle (helll yes its a grind, but its worth it). Also for the record 12 pokemon being changed as you progress should be PLENTY even though i have a full box of level 85 mons  Imo nefing the leaders would ruin the fun for the people who like the challenge which is the main group of people this game is trying to target. Maybe Ryland should be nerfed but i cant talk about that since i got lucky (?)

I have a choice of at least 12 pokemon myself and still got a hell of a hard time beating him tbh. You maybe got lucky or had the best mons against him.

 

12 hours ago, DanelerH said:

Personally, the only trouble I had with Ryland was his Torterra.  Once I found out my Hariyama could get off a Belly Drum to outspeed and one-shot both Torterra and Claydol with Knock Off, the battle was pretty easy.

 

Against Crawli, I usually don’t have trouble with him.  You want the ability to use Fire again?  Just use Sunny Day and start one-shotting his entire team.  The Rainbow Field even overwrites the Forest Field.  Give your Sunny Day Pokemon a Heat Rock and it should last the whole battle.  The only reason I had issues with him in my current run is because I’m doing a Mono-Normal Intense No Items challenge.  The only Normal that gets Wide Guard by level up is Regigigas.  Fortunately, Terajuma offers a Castform for Sunny Day.

 

Angie I admit I usually do have issues with, but that’s just because it’s a difficult fight.  So what if I can’t use Fire?  Ice is weak to plenty of other things.  Your point of “limited options” is hardly relevant here.

Maybe, but overriding one type over the other is not a fair deal either, that's my point.

[nhehvnukl]

6 hours ago, Vhein said:

Maybe, but overriding one type over the other is not a fair deal either, that's my point.

Against good defensive types, maybe, but Ice has literally 4 weaknesses. Thats still 3 types that Angie has nothing against, all of them are good attacking types.

[DanelerH]

I've finished Angie on my Normal monotype.  Honestly, she was pretty easy this time around.  Funnily, it was partially due to the "irrelevant" 20% increase to Dark.  Two Sucker Punches from Alolan Raticate took down Mamoswine.  I considered having Castform get rid of the hail with Sunny Day or Rain Dance, but I found I didn't need to do that.  Psychic Fangs from Stoutland got rid of the Aurora Veil and it survived a Blizzard, so the hail didn't really bother me.  Keep in mind the TM for Brick Break is available and is super-effective against all of Angie's Pokemon (except Alolan Ninetales, but it's still neutral).  For the rest of her team, I followed the saying "If you can't beat them, join them."  I turned my Ditto into her Beartic and swept the rest of her team.  Ironically, Beartic has Superpower and Rock Slide, both of which are strong against Ice.  No Fire required.

[Vhein]

1 hour ago, DanelerH said:

I've finished Angie on my Normal monotype.  Honestly, she was pretty easy this time around.  Funnily, it was partially due to the "irrelevant" 20% increase to Dark.  Two Sucker Punches from Alolan Raticate took down Mamoswine.  I considered having Castform get rid of the hail with Sunny Day or Rain Dance, but I found I didn't need to do that.  Psychic Fangs from Stoutland got rid of the Aurora Veil and it survived a Blizzard, so the hail didn't really bother me.  Keep in mind the TM for Brick Break is available and is super-effective against all of Angie's Pokemon (except Alolan Ninetales, but it's still neutral).  For the rest of her team, I followed the saying "If you can't beat them, join them."  I turned my Ditto into her Beartic and swept the rest of her team.  Ironically, Beartic has Superpower and Rock Slide, both of which are strong against Ice.  No Fire required.

You got a point, maybe the 20% on dark isnt irrelevant, but anyways, how did you manage to teach psychic fangs to your stoutland ? Where did you find a pokemon using it to teach it to your smeargle ?

[DanelerH]

1 minute ago, Vhein said:

You got a point, maybe the 20% on dark isnt irrelevant, but anyways, how did you manage to teach psychic fangs to your stoutland ? Where did you find a pokemon using it to teach it to your smeargle ?

I don't have a Smeargle.  Static Pokemon in this game start with an egg move.  In this case, it was the static Lillipup you can get in one of the Gearen apartments after visiting Goldenwood Forest.  The egg move it starts with is Psychic Fangs.

[Vhein]

1 minute ago, DanelerH said:

I don't have a Smeargle.  Static Pokemon in this game start with an egg move.  In this case, it was the static Lillipup you can get in one of the Gearen apartments after visiting Goldenwood Forest.  The egg move it starts with is Psychic Fangs.

Ah, that's true, i didn't know that lillipup had this move, ok thanks.

[GreatNinja]

I must say, Ryland was one of the easiest Gym Leader in Rejuvenation, as I 1 shot him at both of my runs with like 5 pokemon left. (Soon I will battle him with my 3rd run, which is a Nuzlocke-like run, so lets see about that). Its true that his Claidol did nothing but sitting around, but he sent ot out at the end anyway.

For me, Souta is definetly the strongest. He was able to deal so much damage and even if I tried to remove his field into a snowy mountain, which required 2 moves/3 turns, he just changwd it back with frikkin FLY BRAVIARY. (By the way I play intense mode, I think in normal he has something else here?)

 

So, yeah. With the right team, all Gym leaders can be easy. It really just depends on the Team. Thats what I like in Rejuvenation so much: In my 1st Run, Amber was hard for me, but in the second, she was a total pushover and I 5-0ed her. Rotating Teams definitely makes things easier.

[nx2001]

your problems with crawli and angie can be easily handled with a drought torkoal from the safari zone.

[Tomek]

15 hours ago, GreatNinja said:

I must say, Ryland was one of the easiest Gym Leader in Rejuvenation, as I 1 shot him at both of my runs with like 5 pokemon left. (Soon I will battle him with my 3rd run, which is a Nuzlocke-like run, so lets see about that). Its true that his Claidol did nothing but sitting around, but he sent ot out at the end anyway.

For me, Souta is definetly the strongest. He was able to deal so much damage and even if I tried to remove his field into a snowy mountain, which required 2 moves/3 turns, he just changwd it back with frikkin FLY BRAVIARY. (By the way I play intense mode, I think in normal he has something else here?)

 

So, yeah. With the right team, all Gym leaders can be easy. It really just depends on the Team. Thats what I like in Rejuvenation so much: In my 1st Run, Amber was hard for me, but in the second, she was a total pushover and I 5-0ed her. Rotating Teams definitely makes things easier.

Souta: 1st pokemon tyrantrum, let him tank hawluchas attack, head smash it and kill it... 2nd pokemon sky attack crobat with a seed and its a GG, also jolteon with thunder helps.
Edit: From Erick onward all the gyms have been pretty much easy on intense for me

[cybershell12]

On 7/27/2019 at 6:32 PM, Alisae said:

champions btw

Gym Leaders in french are called "Champions d'Arène" (literally "Arena Champions") (the Champion is called "Le Maître" (literally "The Master")

[SSJG Goku]

I thrive on the challenges this game brings. Yes they're ridiculously over powered in some senses but I was able to prevail. It took me 3 days to beat Souta, coming back and forth with new teams and pokemon I specifically EV trained and gave them specific move sets just to win. This is part of the reason why I prefer this game to the actual Pokemon franchise. Same goes for pokemon Reborn. 

 

If the game was too easy, with the short fragments each episode lasts, the game would be all that much shorter. Personally I hope they keep it this way. There is always a strategy, always a way to modify your team to beat any challenge this game brings up. It isn't like a standard Pokemon game where you can train up some meta pokemon and run through the game. You have to adjust and adapt to the challenge in front using the tools the game gives you.

[Alisae]

1 hour ago, cybershell12 said:

Gym Leaders in french are called "Champions d'Arène" (literally "Arena Champions") (the Champion is called "Le Maître" (literally "The Master")

oh I didn't know this thanks for the knowledge

[Mionee]

The imbalance is part of the fun. It's Pokemon (aka glorified rock paper scissors) versus an AI that can be outsmarted and predicted, you can win even with completely garbage useless pokemon (see: my LC run with 0 items). Removing the 'option' to just steamroll enemies by simply spamming appropriate stab moves on strong attackers is not removing options, it actually opens up a lot of different various strategies and lets a lot of moves/mons shine that would otherwise be completely pointless to use.