E19 PULSE Theories

[Outside Indoorsman]

Remember, everything here has to more or less work within the abilities and movesets of canonical pokemon games, so we can't invent new abilities whole cloth. Tell me what you think of the following theories...

 

PULSE Mrs/Mr Mime: General agreement is that it will be an absurdly tough Tank pokemon, probably with defenses and HP out the wazoo. It will likely also have backup, since the last PULSE pokemon, Hypno, was never directly battled (and if we had fought it, it would have likely fought alongside the mind-controlled Gauntlet, so the last PULSE we fought was Magnezone).

 

Also, as a theory that will likely get me the hate of the entire community if Ame reads this and wasn't already planning it, I am betting it will have Wonder Guard. And likely a type change.

 

PULSE Clawlitzer: As befitting an artillery piece, Clawlizter likely has more special attack than PULSE Abra, and is also likely more capable of taking hits - but it is just as likely very slow. Might get an extra type, I think - Water/Steel, maybe? I am thinking its ability will be either Sheer Force or Mega Launcher.

 

PULSE Arceus: Likely going to be fought on the New World Field - and as such, it will probably have Multitype. Not sure what changes are necessary beyond that, but Arceus's stats will probably get a boost as well. However, unless Arceus is Flying type it is grounded - so a Flying or Levitate pokemon can probably outspeed it to hit with Toxic or a similar move. And not all of its moves are likely to be field boosted.

[SansTheSkeleton]

Just Wonder Guard?

That sounds like a job for Prankster Perish Song.

Prolly going to have Soundproof with backup getting around other shit, or worse - a weird chimera/frankenstein of an Ability (think Arceus in Conquest but worse).

[doombotmecha]

I was thinking Magic Guard+Dual Screens on a Mirror Field, so status like toxic can't kill it, and have it just be tanky/evasive enough to take normal attacks. Still doesn't deal with Prankster PS Nonsense, though.

[Falirion]

Hmm i love seeing people theorize like this. although i am generaly not as imaginative about ability + movesets as other people are so i will leave that to others, but just to help out with that, i do remember a manic/diabolic post by Ame a while ago involving the ability to give PULSE mons held items (as they usually have a special PULSE held item, kinda like a megastone) ,so held items might be a consideration here, to make it worse, say maybe safety googles with the wonder guard idea to cut some ways of chipping past the guard (can still be poisoned though) or life orb for the magic guard to give some pressure to the wall, so one doesn't set up in it's face.

As for Prankster PS and other cheese strats (FEAR, destiny bond etc.) if people want to apply copious amounts of Gouda to a boss mon like that then they are going to, i don't think there is a way to block out all of them at the same time, so probably why bother although something might be part dark-type to cut of all angles that rely on prankster, but then it would need to be fast too, so it doesn't get normally outsped. in fact lets try:
 

2 hours ago, doombotmecha said:

I was thinking Magic Guard+Dual Screens on a Mirror Field, so status like toxic can't kill it, and have it just be tanky/evasive enough to take normal attacks. Still doesn't deal with Prankster PS Nonsense, though.

Modifying this way + Dark type, would still be kinda open to fear strats, but anything prankster would be out, Fear still exists, kinda, the mirror field plus some evasion from maybe seed or bright powder (on mirror) would give atleast good chance for the fear attacks to miss...i feel like i am forgetting cheese strats, but sounds annoyingly hard to take down already.
 

and finally yeah i kinda agree with OP that whole new abilitys probably won't show up (except maybe ARC-pulse as it's called in-game), Rejuv may do it, but if Reborn was going to do that i feel like it would have already happend

[Urist_Imiknorris]

7 hours ago, doombotmecha said:

I was thinking Magic Guard+Dual Screens on a Mirror Field, so status like toxic can't kill it, and have it just be tanky/evasive enough to take normal attacks. Still doesn't deal with Prankster PS Nonsense, though.

Or worse, Magic Bounce instead of Magic Guard. Add in backup pokemon for it to switch out to and there's trouble.

 

edit: Oh, right. That might hurt.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Urist_Imiknorris

[Falirion]

1 hour ago, Urist_Imiknorris said:

Or worse, Magic Bounce instead of Magic Guard. Add in backup pokemon for it to switch out to and there's trouble.

 

edit: Oh, right. That might hurt.

I believe the Idea for Magic Guard was that it prevents any and all chip damage, including weather, which magic bounce wouldn't. (although maybe Magic bounce with Safety Googles)

And thanks for finding the post, thats exactly the one i was thinking of

[Urist_Imiknorris]

Actually, I've been thinking about this, and I've come up with the worst PULSE Mime fight I can imagine. I'm assuming that whatever Ame found to let PULSE mons use items involves the mon already being in PULSE form when it's sent out. With that in mind, a Magic Bounce PULSE Mime with a Synthetic Seed on a Mirror Arena gets +3 evasion on turn zero, which also translates into guaranteed crits. I'd assume it has dual screens (no need for light clay thanks to the field, and both screens raise evasion even further) and that it spends its first turn trying to guess whether your lead prefers physical or special attacks and sets the appropriate screen. After that, the terror begins. So far, every Pulse mon except Magnezone has had at least one move that it cannot normally learn. Since this setup guarantees critical hits, moves that reduce the user's offensive stats essentially have no drawback. Enter Psycho Boost. Round it off with some form of coverage, and weep. And since it has Magic Bounce, the only real options to remove its evasion boosts are Haze and Clear Smog, unless it's used alongside other pokemon and can be phazed away.

[Falirion]

While i hate to be contrarian with this, the idea is smart, i didn't think of that, but that's pretty much putting all it's eggs in one Basket, if the Field drops after it did a psycho Boost or 2 it will hit like a wet noodle, and mirror arena, as much as I hate the thing, is one of the easier to remove fields, even if we ignore Electric Terrain etc. namely via EQ, among other things, which is a really common move at this stage in the game.  Making the set play with it's field is one thing (and let's face it a Mime on a Mirror field is to perfect to not do, unless you really want to curveball it) but with Psycho Boost and relying on garantied crits it would have easy way to disable itself. And i might be misremebering but the EQ doesn't even need to hit (misses the opponent but not the field). On the postive side, phazing is actually not that much of an issue, as Magic Bounce would reflect those as well, outside of Moldbreaker, Dragon Tail and Red Card, if it has a team to fall back on.

So i don't spend this entire boost shooting down things, PULSE Clawitzer, i like the Characterisation in the OP it would certainly fit, not sure about the Ability the 2 propossed ones both sound fun, Mega Launcher has a very limited movepool, but on the Topic of unusual moves Origin Pulse is affected by Mega Launcher, soo that's fun. on the other hand Sheer Force + Live Orb is pretty much a tool of destruction, hard choice, i tried thinking of another ability, but feel like something used as artillery would have something offensive, but not really sweppy (so i don't think Beast boost) Long Reach might be a fitting ability flavour wise, but i don't see that one doing anything, special moves tend to be not contact already. Not sure if there is going to be a relevant field, it's positioning in a town would likely just give it factory if anything, it might have Flash Cannon, and the seed on that field wouldn't be terrible. and Short Curcuit could play into a Mega Launcher Dark Pulse, not sure. I guess will stop here and maybe think of something coherent.

[doombotmecha]

Also I think going all-in on mirror field abuse opens PMM to getting smacked by Synth Seed Flash Cannon Magnezone, and/or the same with Empoleon and Lucario. CM synth seed Lucario could even set up on whatever other mons PMM's trainer is carrying, and come in to PMM with enough spatk to OHKO. Also having 2 slots devoted to screens leaves it potentially open to Shedinja.

 

As for Clawitzer, Mega Launcher/Origin Pulse sounds incredibly likely. I'm not sure what a good field for it would be, though.... like, Water Surface would be good, but it wouldn't be very unique or memorable.

[Falirion]

1 hour ago, doombotmecha said:

Also I think going all-in on mirror field abuse opens PMM to getting smacked by Synth Seed Flash Cannon Magnezone, and/or the same with Empoleon and Lucario. CM synth seed Lucario could even set up on whatever other mons PMM's trainer is carrying, and come in to PMM with enough spatk to OHKO. Also having 2 slots devoted to screens leaves it potentially open to Shedinja.

Fair points, all in all, i had it in my mind beeing Psychic/Dark already, mainly because the Prankster stuff further up, but, signal beam would destroy that on mirror, and thinking on it further i am not sure if it's typing even would be changed, the only PULSE that had a type change only got a type added, from beeing single type'd (Abra, Swalot, and the unfought Hypno). as for double screens, if the fight is on mirror one might as well give it aurora veil instead to open up a move slot, as that is active on the field, but that runs in the issue again that it's set stops working if one removes the field.

Water surface would be helpful for the Clawitzer while boring, not sure how that could be made sense of how thats there, the PULSE just sitting in a pool, for reasons?

[Outside Indoorsman]

I was thinking that the PULSE Mr/Mrs Mime might be Fairy/Dark, perhaps? It's not a type combo you see often - or maybe Steel/Fairy. 

 

For fields... well, maybe PULSE-Mime's on the Factory Field again? That's sort of the go-to PULSE pokemon field, it seems. To provide all the power that is needed for the PULSE itself, unless it's like PULSE Swalot and is in an "off region". But what fields would benefit Mime-PULSE the most... 

 

The water surface idea above got me thinking, what if we do fight PULSE-Clawlitzer on the Water Surface? Maybe Team Meteor put it in one on purpose so that it wouldn't have to draw on itself to fire off the probably-water "artillery shots." Not sure about a Life Orb for an item (considering the already-insane special attack it will likely have), but it will probably have one.

 

 

[Falirion]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:03 AM, Outside Indoorsman said:

I was thinking that the PULSE Mr/Mrs Mime might be Fairy/Dark, perhaps? It's not a type combo you see often - or maybe Steel/Fairy.

Fairy/Dark is interessting offensivly speaking, Stab from both would hit anything except Steel/Fairy atleast neutral, but Mime feels like it's suppossed to be more off a wall, and well 3 Weaknesses, and only 2 resists and 2 immunitys (but Immune to Prankster ) Steel/Fairy on the other hand has tons of defensive utility, with 9 resists and 2 immunitys (that's steel for you i guess) earplugs, would prevent perishsong cheese, but could still be destiny bonded (which dark also wouldn't protect from the only prankster destiny bonder is mega Banette)
i guess, it really is not worth worrying about all possible cheese.
 

On 10/13/2019 at 8:03 AM, Outside Indoorsman said:

For fields... well, maybe PULSE-Mime's on the Factory Field again? That's sort of the go-to PULSE pokemon field, it seems. To provide all the power that is needed for the PULSE itself, unless it's like PULSE Swalot and is in an "off region". But what fields would benefit Mime-PULSE the most...  

Unless it really is part Steel i don't see it, Factory doesn't really give anything to Mime that i could find, and strengthens at least one weakness of it no matter which of it's orignal types it keeps (doubt it will change both types) Factory boosts steel a fair bit (issue if it remains fairy), and can be easily changed into short curcuit which would boost Ghost and some Dark (which would be bad for psychic) I feel the theory's circled Mirror Field specifically so far because it boosts Screens (which seems to be PMMs main function what with the wall around Labradorra), makes thematic sense (Mime in a glass box), and could be provided by PMM itself (it can make screens, so why not make those mirrors), though mainly the first point.
Other fields that could possibly benefit a Mr./Mrs. Mime, that i can think of would be: Ashen Beach, Misty Terrain, Glitch Field and Psychic Terrain. Glitch Field would likely give it some actually high offense on basis of it's special defense. Ashen Beach seems really unlikely.
 

On 10/13/2019 at 8:03 AM, Outside Indoorsman said:

The water surface idea above got me thinking, what if we do fight PULSE-Clawlitzer on the Water Surface? Maybe Team Meteor put it in one on purpose so that it wouldn't have to draw on itself to fire off the probably-water "artillery shots." Not sure about a Life Orb for an item (considering the already-insane special attack it will likely have), but it will probably have one.

Well, i guess yeah Water Surface in this case would be relatively easy to explain, should have really been able to think of that myself. I brought up Life Orb specifically in conjunction with Sheer Force, because due to the weird way Sheer Force operates, any move affected by it also doesn't incur Life Orb damage (while stil getting the damage boost form the Orb), as both move's extra effects and life orb recoil is done in the same calculation phase, which sheer force skips entirely on moves that get that boost, so it's a case of "you might as well". outside of that i don't think it's a great idea to give that to an AI boss mon, it can and will kill itself with it, unless it has some form of recovery (and probably even then), though on that note: Water Surface boosts the recovery of aqua ring (ele seed also gives aqua ring, but that only mattes if you want it for it's own sake)
I guess i could make a mock set for Clawitzer on Water Surface and see what we can do from there:

 

PULSE Clawitzer (on Water Surface)

Water/Steel (or Water/Dragon)
Mega Launcher
(Origin Pulse)
Dragon Pulse
(Thunderbolt)
???
elemental seed or assault vest

I really wish i knew what to do with the other move slot, i tried sticking to Clawitzers normal movepool outside of Origin Pulse, and didn't find much of anything in there, (Thunderbolt isn't normaly in Clawitzers movepool hence it's in brackets) if we just take any move nasty plot is an obvious idea. although probably overkill. as for what's there, water/steel would make it effectivly only weak to electric, as water Surface cancels ground moves completly, while Water/Dragon would only have it weak against fairy and dragon, while also providing stab to dragon pulse, which pairs well with Origin Pulse, as it hits everything that would resist Origin Pulse and is also boosted by Mega Launcher, speaking of Origin Pulse itself, this thing hits stupidly hard, especially if this thing has good spatk, with an effective power of 371 after Mega launcher, Field boost and STAB. Elemental seed would give it aqua ring, assault vest would give it more defenses, as i don't think it's going to be fast, although the field would help with that halving the speed of anything not water or flying which is the reason for Thunderbolt vs the waters (vs. flying Origin Pulse is still better unless 4x or resists water)
 

[Outside Indoorsman]

1: Well... yeah, PULSE Mime is going to be weak to at least one form of "cheesing it", one way or another. I shouldn't have tried to fight that... but yeah, Steel/Fairy, Steel/Psychic, or Fairy/Dark seem like the most possible combinations for the typing. Not sure what the ability will be, but the general consensus seems to be it's either Magic Guard, or Magic Bounce with something like the Safety Goggles (I'm still sort of hoping for Wonder Guard, twisted as that may be).

 

2: Didn't think that a Mirror Field could be generated by the PULSE Mime itself, but now that you bring it up it makes way too much sense. Also, maybe the PULSE-Mime can like, renew the field or something if it's broken? If it does have Magic Guard, actually, would it theoretically be immune to the damage from the field breaking? Oh dear... okay, if that's the play, then we're going to have problems. That might be going against the rules of the game too much, though... and Mr Mime doesn't have any moves that shatter the Mirror Arena, I think. So if we are going to worry about that, it will have backup... which isn't too much comfort.

 

3: Oh yeah, Life Orb and Sheer Force together mean that the effect from the Life Orb's hp drain doesn't happen. I either didn't know about that or I forgot... okay, yeah. That makes sense, but it and the Water Surface together mean that mon is going to pretty much be oneshotting pokemon left and right. And the speed boost of sorts from the field for non-Water pokemon isn't going to help... 

[Urist_Imiknorris]

A careful perusal of Reborn's graphics folder has yielded something interesting: I've found the files containing the PULSE Dex pages. navpulse00 through navpulse08 are the actual pages for each PULSE who's data we acquire. navpulse09 - navpulse11 are blank white images. So those are Mr. Mime and Clawitzer, but there is another...

 

Place your bets: PULSE Arceus or new PULSE?

Edited October 15, 2019 by Urist_Imiknorris

[Falirion]

13 hours ago, Outside Indoorsman said:

2: Didn't think that a Mirror Field could be generated by the PULSE Mime itself, but now that you bring it up it makes way too much sense. Also, maybe the PULSE-Mime can like, renew the field or something if it's broken? If it does have Magic Guard, actually, would it theoretically be immune to the damage from the field breaking? Oh dear... okay, if that's the play, then we're going to have problems. That might be going against the rules of the game too much, though... and Mr Mime doesn't have any moves that shatter the Mirror Arena, I think. So if we are going to worry about that, it will have backup... which isn't too much comfort.

I think you got that, but just to be clear, i meant the PMM providing the field in a flavour sense of why the field is there, there are no ways in game to generate mirror arena (thank God/Arceus/Ame for that! nobody needs random mirror arenas, i am only discussing that "field" here because it fits to well). But if it was possible, yeah that strat would be kinda disgusting. As for Magic Guard protecting from the shattering Mirrors, it should by how the Ability works, but i don't know actually if the game accounted for that... And i kinda do think there is gonna be someone backing the PMM up, because what's the point of Screens if you don't have a team to take advantage of them. Blake. Fern or maybe Sirius i guess.

 

8 hours ago, Urist_Imiknorris said:

A careful perusal of Reborn's graphics folder has yielded something interesting: I've found the files containing the PULSE Dex pages. navpulse00 through navpulse08 are the actual pages for each PULSE who's data we acquire. navpulse09 - navpulse11 are blank white images. So those are Mr. Mime and Clawitzer, but there is another...

 

Place your bets: PULSE Arceus or new PULSE?

The ingame PULSE Dex has the same 3 blank spots, which is why people generally expect 3 more PULSEs, Mr. Mime and Clawitzer are a given, even if we don't necessarily fight them (see the cases of Hypno and Discount Primal Groudon Camerrupt). As for Nr.3 Evelyn in Calcenon talks about ArcPULSE, so thats why PULSE Arceus is generally assumed. But in the case that one remains theoretical... i wouldn't be surprised if Lin would turn her Hydreigon into a full PULSE, it's IS PULSE2 at the very least (for those that forgot, or skimmed Evelyn's Dialogue, PULSE2 basically means that all it's EVs are maxed, which is why Solaris' Mega Chomp was as unnaturally tanky as it was, that thing had 252/31 in everything) which does explain how it tanked the Dazzling Gleam of Ame's Alolatails, even if they were equal Level, even if just barely:
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hydreigon: 324-384 (83.5 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

Edited October 15, 2019 by Falirion

[Feng Lei]

I'm really, really bad with cheeze strats, honestly. Never enjoyed playing that way, may be a reason.

 

Were it me, I'd make Pulse Mime a Normal Type and give it Wonder Guard, while also giving it Counter&Mirrorcoat. With perhaps support moves like Safeguard or something to help against stuff. And have it be guarded by Orderly John.

[doombotmecha]

1 hour ago, Feng Lei said:

I'm really, really bad with cheeze strats, honestly. Never enjoyed playing that way, may be a reason.

 

Were it me, I'd make Pulse Mime a Normal Type and give it Wonder Guard, while also giving it Counter&Mirrorcoat. With perhaps support moves like Safeguard or something to help against stuff. And have it be guarded by Orderly John.

Problem is, a single specially-offensive dark type with Focus Blast can put a stop to that.

[Falirion]

On 10/17/2019 at 11:15 PM, Feng Lei said:

Were it me, I'd make Pulse Mime a Normal Type and give it Wonder Guard, while also giving it Counter&Mirrorcoat. With perhaps support moves like Safeguard or something to help against stuff. And have it be guarded by Orderly John.

Not really anything to add to the viability of the set, but just on a more silly note,

Spoiler

pretty sure Orderly John is captured, he was one of the Orderlys in Agate (he was even the one Samson knocked out after he was untied after the Solaris battle if I followed the Movement correctly) and therefore actually captured, in fact by my count, despite Sigmund's Presence in Labradorra, Team Meteor is fresh out of New World Orderlys altogether except maybe 1, so thats also going to be my statement: we are going to battle at most 1 Orderly and it's not going to be John.

 

[Feng Lei]

On 10/17/2019 at 3:24 PM, doombotmecha said:

Problem is, a single specially-offensive dark type with Focus Blast can put a stop to that.

But what if a couple certain brainwashed Flying and Fighting gym leaders are guarding it?

 

And if it has enough crazy bulk, maybe even a focus blast wouldn't kill it in one hit, allowing it to mirror coat. Or heck, it may have a fairy move itself to deal with such troubles. Though it does seem like making it a Fairy/Steel type might be better...

 

Or you know, put on a Glitch field with a seed to remove all weaknesses... or do abilities work on Glitch field. I never did find that field effect readout... like most of them.

[doombotmecha]

11 minutes ago, Feng Lei said:

But what if a couple certain brainwashed Flying and Fighting gym leaders are guarding it?

 

And if it has enough crazy bulk, maybe even a focus blast wouldn't kill it in one hit, allowing it to mirror coat. Or heck, it may have a fairy move itself to deal with such troubles. Though it does seem like making it a Fairy/Steel type might be better...

 

Or you know, put on a Glitch field with a seed to remove all weaknesses... or do abilities work on Glitch field. I never did find that field effect readout... like most of them.

There was a reason I said specially-offensive dark type. Dark types are immune to Mirror Coat. As for the guardians, that's why you just don't send it out early. In a double battle scenario, the fight would be easier at the end, since it would be two-on-one.

 

Additionally, Glitch field doesn't negate abilities, so technically it would make it immune, but then people just Prankster+Perish Song it, or use any other damaging status move. For what it's worth, I think it's honestly more effective to block off status moves than attacking ones, since due to the high stats of pulse 2 pokemon, percent health damage is simply the most efficient option.

 

EDIT: Actually, this is what I'm worried about overall. Stall only has to deal with the enemy's offensive stats, not defensive ones, so it may be going forward that the best route for all future single battles will be to just toxic stall until the cows come home so you never have to deal with the absurd bulk of enemy pokemon.

[Falirion]

55 minutes ago, Feng Lei said:

Or you know, put on a Glitch field with a seed to remove all weaknesses... or do abilities work on Glitch field. I never did find that field effect readout... like most of them.

Now Glitch field, seed wonder guard... that's interessting at least. what could one do against that,
1. same thing that makes shedninja a gimmick mon at best (because of it's 1 HP) indirect damage, Toxic, Burn, Sandstorm, Hail, Leech seed, Ghost Curse, etc. (thats why Wonder Guard doesn't really convince me in general, but this variant, i like, it's interessting)
2. you can phaze it to remove the seed effect.
(3. you dump Gouda all over it, as you can with everything)
it should be noted having things that can be done against something, is not a bad thing, there always is something, and there has to be obviously.

The first thing in particular, is as doombot says a problem for anything that wants to be tanky, (because, i always explain everything as if nobody knew these things even though probably everyone does, might as well continue: all of these ignore defensive stats and do percentage damage mostly 1/8th or 1/16th which you could have 10000 hp, it wouldn't safe you) Rejuv gave an great example to that actually, (slight V12 sidequest spoilers)

Spoiler

the most recent Rift mon had in 12.0 1000 Base hp (i kid you not, it has since been nerfed to 500 base), the AI partner in that battle has a bellosom, it has Leech seed, 1 leech seed tick full healed the bollosom from red to full, at a Level it would have 200+ hp. so the Rift had 1600 hp minimum, it was hilarious.

46 minutes ago, doombotmecha said:

EDIT: Actually, this is what I'm worried about overall. Stall only has to deal with the enemy's offensive stats, not defensive ones, so it may be going forward that the best route for all future single battles will be to just toxic stall until the cows come home so you never have to deal with the absurd bulk of enemy pokemon.

Glitch Field in particular would atleast likely give it good spatk, based on it's likely ridicolously high (unless it goes all in on wonder guard nonsense) spdef to possibly make it not as easily  stallable, personally i still prefer magic guard or magic bounce personally

Edited October 20, 2019 by Falirion