Discussion:8th gen pokemons viability in future updates.

[SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!]

So I have created this topic to discuss 8th gen pokemons and their viability in future updates of the games.You can submit it your favourite pokemons and pokemon you consider as broken along with set that you would choose to run on them.NO GIGANTMAX OR DYNAMAX allowed though.To start off Let me start with my choices.Spoiler tags cuz the games is new.If anyone want to look into full moveset,egg moves,tm moves of the pokemon you want to mention please look into serebii or any other similar site.

 

Spoiler

1.Cinderarce

Stats: 80

116

75

65

75

119 (Jolly 4 hp,252 attack,252 speed)

Ability :Libero: Changes the Pokémon's type to the type of the move it's about to use.(Protean basically)

 

Moveset: Bulk up

                Pyro ball

                High Jump Kick

                Sucker punch

 

Other moves: Gunk shot,iron head,zen headbutt,U turn,mega kick,Acrobatics,Facade,Flare blitz.

 

Thoughts:Well well well,what can I say.Another protean starter.And this time with a little more power and even more variety of offensive moves scorbunny looks a favourite to dethrone froakie as the 2nd most op starter.Talking about the set bulk up to possibly sweep,pyro ball for that massive 120 bp raw power plus burn,high jump kick for power,sucker punch for priority cleaning.

 

2.Eiscue

Stats: Ice face intact: 70/80/110/65/90/50

          No Ice form: 75/80/70/65/50/130

          EV/Nature (Jolly 4 Hp,252 att,252 speed)

              

Ability: Ice Face: The Pokémon's ice head can take a physical attack as a substitute, but the attack also changes the Pokémon's appearance. The ice will be restored when it hails.

 

Moveset: Belly drum

                Ice Punch/Icicle crash

                Waterfall

                Facade/Iron Head

 

Other moves: Liquidation,substitute,double edge,zen headbutt,

 

Thoughts: If you come across physical attacker in the game with eiscue on the side,lets just say you are gonna wreck havoc with it.Just click belly drum,take a physical hit and see your opponent perish with your new found attack and speed.When it hails Eiscue is physically invulnerable which quite incredible.I think Angie may have one in her team in the coming updates with maximised hp and special defense.Talking about the move set,belly drum to maximize eiscue's attack,ice punch for accuracy or icicle crach for flinch and extra damage,waterfall over liquidation for flinch or you can just use liquidation not much problem,facade incase its burned or iron head.

               

             

 

 

There are many other pokemons but I shall leave them upto you guyz.

Edited November 15, 2019 by SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!

[Paperblade]

Spoiler

Ice Face only resets when Hail is set, not every turn under Hail. It will probably be good in Rejuvenation if the AI isn't smart enough to not run into its ability

 

Anyway, Grookey line is going to be insane because Grassy Surge shuts off fields. Any fight where the field is a big deal (which is most gym leaders plus some other bosses) are going to be near trivialized. Getting this effect without spending a turn on it is huge, and getting it on your starter is terrifying

 

[SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!]

Just now, Paperblade said:

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Ice Face only resets when Hail is set, not every turn under Hail. It will probably be good in Rejuvenation if the AI isn't smart enough to not run into its ability

 

Anyway, Grookey line is going to be insane because Grassy Surge shuts off fields. Any fight where the field is a big deal (which is most gym leaders plus some other bosses) are going to be near trivialized. Getting this effect without spending a turn on it is huge, and getting it on your starter is terrifying

 

Spoiler

Oh!anywayz the fast belly drum set is quite viable.I think Eiscue is the fastest belly drum user.And yeah Rillaboom is going to wreck havoc due to that ability.A lot of gyms could be a walk over then.Wonder what the makers will do about it.Its arguably even more broken than blaziken that way.

 

[Crimson_Mc_Black]

Im mostly excited for the Galar Weezing with its Neutralizing gas ability. I could wreak some serious havoc in doubles when I pair that Weezing with Slaking

[ShadowStar]

Spoiler

Toxtricity 

 

Overdrive + Gunk Shot + Boomburst + Shift Gear

 

The Ability Punk Rock boosts Sound-based moves by 1.5x, this makes Toxtricity the strongest user of Boomburst in the game. Shift Gear not only gives it a much needed Speed boost, but it also boosts Attack allowing for Toxtricity to run the more powerful Gunk Shot. While its movepool is small, it is a big threat with the right support.

 

Grimmsnarl 

Remember Meowstic? Well here's a bit of an upgrade. With Light Screen and Reflect in the game, Grimmsnarl can not only aid sweepers such as the aforementioned Toxtricity, but it can also pack a punch with its powerful STAB options and respectable Attack stat. Like Toxtricity, there are many ways to run this Pokemon depending on if you want support, attack, or my favorite: a mix of both.

 

[wetvegan]

Spoiler

Duraludon

 

 

Stats: 70, 95, 115, 120, 55, 85 (HP, ATK, DEF, SPATK, SpD, SPE)

 

With a base stat total of around 530 and a beneficial typing in Dragon Steel, it is clear this mon can be heavily useful in Pokemon Rejuvenation. This mon can be run both physically and specially It will mostly be run as a physical tank while being able to dish out a powerful STAB flash cannon. Its hidden ability, stalwart, is basically mold-breaker in the way it functions as it ignores abilities and can also ignore moves like follow me. It also gets a new move called "steel beam" which is a base 140 STAB move which reduces 50% hp on use. (Its basically Dialga-lite what more do you expect).

 

Moveset:

Flash Cannon

Steel Beam

Dragon Pulse/ Dragon Claw

Thunderbolt

 

[Paperblade]

Spoiler

Grimmsnarl misses some good utility moves like weather or terrain changing moves, as far as being an upgrade to meowstic goes. It does do some role compression though since it has high attack and serviceable bulk so it can probably nab a KO

 

[Moto]

Spoiler

Not a gen 8 pokemon, but Blastoise gets Shell Smash in gen 8. 

 

If this change is carried over to Rejuvenation, imagine it.

 

Shell Smash Mega Blastoise. 

 

[Autumn Zephyr]

44 minutes ago, advesha said:

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Not a gen 8 pokemon, but Blastoise gets Shell Smash in gen 8. 

 

If this change is carried over to Rejuvenation, imagine it.

 

Shell Smash Mega Blastoise. 

 

Spoiler

As if the Novae sister (I think it was Neptune?) in the trench needed any more buffs...

 

On a different note, Baton pass being more widespread could be notable. If it somehow becomes available in time for swoobat to have not fallen off yet, the tossing Simple!Calm Mids to other pokes seems like a handy trick to have.

 

[Paperblade]

21 minutes ago, Autumn Zephyr said:

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As if the Novae sister (I think it was Neptune?) in the trench needed any more buffs...

 

On a different note, Baton pass being more widespread could be notable. If it somehow becomes available in time for swoobat to have not fallen off yet, the tossing Simple!Calm Mids to other pokes seems like a handy trick to have.

 

Spoiler

Why pass calm mind when it can pass nasty plot

 

[Autumn Zephyr]

2 minutes ago, Paperblade said:

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Why pass calm mind when it can pass nasty plot

 

Spoiler

Because Nasty Plot is TM-exclusive for it, and guaranteed to become available long after swoobat has dropped off in usefulness. I mean, we're 12 Versions in already and don't even have its time-honored Physical cousin yet!

[ShadowStar]

On 11/15/2019 at 11:15 AM, ShadowStar said:

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Toxtricity 

 

Overdrive + Gunk Shot + Boomburst + Shift Gear

 

The Ability Punk Rock boosts Sound-based moves by 1.5x, this makes Toxtricity the strongest user of Boomburst in the game. Shift Gear not only gives it a much needed Speed boost, but it also boosts Attack allowing for Toxtricity to run the more powerful Gunk Shot. While its movepool is small, it is a big threat with the right support.

Grimmsnarl 

Remember Meowstic? Well here's a bit of an upgrade. With Light Screen and Reflect in the game, Grimmsnarl can not only aid sweepers such as the aforementioned Toxtricity, but it can also pack a punch with its powerful STAB options and respectable Attack stat. Like Toxtricity, there are many ways to run this Pokemon depending on if you want support, attack, or my favorite: a mix of both.

 

Gonna add another Pokemon 

 

Spoiler

Corviknight 

Moves such as Power Trip and Stored Power are known to be very powerful in Reborn and Rejuvenation, and Corviknight is a fantastic user of Power Trip, With Bulk Up, Agility and Roost available to it, Power Trip can get very powerful very quickly. You can also run Brave Bird on the side as a powerful STAB option over Agility. Corviknight's bulk,typing, and recovery allow it to set up rather easily.

 

A set consisting of Brave Bird, Iron Head, Body Press, and Roost might be more practical but we'll have to see. 

 

[iDunno]

Spoiler

Galarian Darmanitan (Ice) - HP- 105; Attack - 140; Defense - 55; Special Attack - 30; Special Defense - 55; Speed - 95 (BST:480)

Ability: Gorilla Tactics

Nature: Jolly/Adamant

EV Spread: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Defense

Item: Icicle Plate/Life Orb/Choice Scarf/Choice Band

Attacks: Icicle Crash; Rock Slide; U-Turn; Flare Blitz (yes, it gets Flare Blitz). Can also get: Stone Edge; Iron Head; Earthquake; Superpower; Hammer Arm.

Comment: This thing is a monster. Arguably even more so than regular Darmanitan. Two words: Gorilla Tactics. Essentially a free Choice Band to go with is already monstrous Attack stat. Which means that you could also give it an actual Choice Band (once it's available) to make it even more brutal. Or heck, a Choice Scarf. Because screw your opponent.

 

In case Dynamax/Gigantamax is implemented:

Spoiler

Gigantamax Lapras (Water/Ice) - HP - 130 (195-260 when Dynamaxed); Attack - 85; Defense - 80; Special Attack - 85; Special Attack - 95; Speed - 60

Ability: Water Absorb

Nature: Modest

EV Spread: 252 HP/252 Special Attack/4 Special Defense

Item: Assault Vest/Leftovers/Icicle Plate

Attacks: Blizzard/Ice Beam; Hydro Pump/Surf; Freeze Dry; Thunderbolt.

Comments: Lapras is a great Pokemon to Gigantamax for two reasons: 1) its already huge bulk goes to astronomical levels thanks to the increase in HP; and 2) its signature move, G-Max Resonance. It's an Ice-type attack that can have 140 BP if going off of Blizzard and 130 BP if going off of Ice Beam, that sets up Aurora Veil after damage calculation. Yes, Aurora Veil without the need for Hail. The catch is that it's only gonna last five turns, like regular Aurora Veil, and AFAIK it can't be increased by holding Light Clay. Still, it's a great alternative for a Pokemon Team that doesn't have synergy with Hail. It will only require the right timing on the trainer's part, and a lot of KOs-then-switching-out (so it will not be that useful if you like to play with the "Set" option On).

 

Dynamax in general: basically any Flying type with decent-but-not-great speed like Togekiss, Braviary and Honchkrow will greatly appreciate beind Dynamaxed thanks to a powerful STAB that raises their Speed. Moxie Honchkrow would be particularly dangerous thanks to that, and to Superpower turning into G-Max Knuckle (which raises Attack).

 

[SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!]

12 hours ago, advesha said:

  Hide contents

Not a gen 8 pokemon, but Blastoise gets Shell Smash in gen 8. 

 

If this change is carried over to Rejuvenation, imagine it.

 

Shell Smash Mega Blastoise. 

 

Yea I was wondering about this myself.But blastoise deserves it.Nobody picks poor squirtle in the game.But this changes everything.And yeah Mega Blastoise makes the most of it due to multiple stab options.Excited about him/her.

3 hours ago, iDunno said:

  Hide contents

Galarian Darmanitan (Ice) - HP- 105; Attack - 140; Defense - 55; Special Attack - 30; Special Defense - 55; Speed - 95 (BST:480)

Ability: Gorilla Tactics

Nature: Jolly/Adamant

EV Spread: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Defense

Item: Icicle Plate/Life Orb/Choice Scarf/Choice Band

Attacks: Icicle Crash; Rock Slide; U-Turn; Flare Blitz (yes, it gets Flare Blitz). Can also get: Stone Edge; Iron Head; Earthquake; Superpower; Hammer Arm.

Comment: This thing is a monster. Arguably even more so than regular Darmanitan. Two words: Gorilla Tactics. Essentially a free Choice Band to go with is already monstrous Attack stat. Which means that you could also give it an actual Choice Band (once it's available) to make it even more brutal. Or heck, a Choice Scarf. Because screw your opponent.

 

In case Dynamax/Gigantamax is implemented:

  Reveal hidden contents

Gigantamax Lapras (Water/Ice) - HP - 130 (195-260 when Dynamaxed); Attack - 85; Defense - 80; Special Attack - 85; Special Attack - 95; Speed - 60

Ability: Water Absorb

Nature: Modest

EV Spread: 252 HP/252 Special Attack/4 Special Defense

Item: Assault Vest/Leftovers/Icicle Plate

Attacks: Blizzard/Ice Beam; Hydro Pump/Surf; Freeze Dry; Thunderbolt.

Comments: Lapras is a great Pokemon to Gigantamax for two reasons: 1) its already huge bulk goes to astronomical levels thanks to the increase in HP; and 2) its signature move, G-Max Resonance. It's an Ice-type attack that can have 140 BP if going off of Blizzard and 130 BP if going off of Ice Beam, that sets up Aurora Veil after damage calculation. Yes, Aurora Veil without the need for Hail. The catch is that it's only gonna last five turns, like regular Aurora Veil, and AFAIK it can't be increased by holding Light Clay. Still, it's a great alternative for a Pokemon Team that doesn't have synergy with Hail. It will only require the right timing on the trainer's part, and a lot of KOs-then-switching-out (so it will not be that useful if you like to play with the "Set" option On).

 

Dynamax in general: basically any Flying type with decent-but-not-great speed like Togekiss, Braviary and Honchkrow will greatly appreciate beind Dynamaxed thanks to a powerful STAB that raises their Speed. Moxie Honchkrow would be particularly dangerous thanks to that, and to Superpower turning into G-Max Knuckle (which raises Attack).

 

Spoiler

Yeah!I just checked on damage calculator it KOs neutral swampert with icicle crash.If it could have learnt swords dance maybe zen mode would have been more viable.It does learn power up punch but is almost useless in this set.Zen mode could work well with Bulk up,flare blitz,icicle crash and power up punch.

 

[SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!]

22 hours ago, Crimson_Mc_Black said:

Im mostly excited for the Galar Weezing with its Neutralizing gas ability. I could wreak some serious havoc in doubles when I pair that Weezing with Slaking

Yup this is the gen for the Gorillas.If legendaries are usable post game or endgame in rejuvenation it would be nice to see regigigas get the power it deserves.

Edited November 16, 2019 by SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!

[nhehvnukl]

4 hours ago, iDunno said:

  Hide contents

Galarian Darmanitan (Ice) - HP- 105; Attack - 140; Defense - 55; Special Attack - 30; Special Defense - 55; Speed - 95 (BST:480)

Ability: Gorilla Tactics

Nature: Jolly/Adamant

EV Spread: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Defense

Item: Icicle Plate/Life Orb/Choice Scarf/Choice Band

Attacks: Icicle Crash; Rock Slide; U-Turn; Flare Blitz (yes, it gets Flare Blitz). Can also get: Stone Edge; Iron Head; Earthquake; Superpower; Hammer Arm.

Comment: This thing is a monster. Arguably even more so than regular Darmanitan. Two words: Gorilla Tactics. Essentially a free Choice Band to go with is already monstrous Attack stat. Which means that you could also give it an actual Choice Band (once it's available) to make it even more brutal. Or heck, a Choice Scarf. Because screw your opponent.

 

In case Dynamax/Gigantamax is implemented:

  Hide contents

Gigantamax Lapras (Water/Ice) - HP - 130 (195-260 when Dynamaxed); Attack - 85; Defense - 80; Special Attack - 85; Special Attack - 95; Speed - 60

Ability: Water Absorb

Nature: Modest

EV Spread: 252 HP/252 Special Attack/4 Special Defense

Item: Assault Vest/Leftovers/Icicle Plate

Attacks: Blizzard/Ice Beam; Hydro Pump/Surf; Freeze Dry; Thunderbolt.

Comments: Lapras is a great Pokemon to Gigantamax for two reasons: 1) its already huge bulk goes to astronomical levels thanks to the increase in HP; and 2) its signature move, G-Max Resonance. It's an Ice-type attack that can have 140 BP if going off of Blizzard and 130 BP if going off of Ice Beam, that sets up Aurora Veil after damage calculation. Yes, Aurora Veil without the need for Hail. The catch is that it's only gonna last five turns, like regular Aurora Veil, and AFAIK it can't be increased by holding Light Clay. Still, it's a great alternative for a Pokemon Team that doesn't have synergy with Hail. It will only require the right timing on the trainer's part, and a lot of KOs-then-switching-out (so it will not be that useful if you like to play with the "Set" option On).

 

Dynamax in general: basically any Flying type with decent-but-not-great speed like Togekiss, Braviary and Honchkrow will greatly appreciate beind Dynamaxed thanks to a powerful STAB that raises their Speed. Moxie Honchkrow would be particularly dangerous thanks to that, and to Superpower turning into G-Max Knuckle (which raises Attack).

 

Jan said Dynamax wont be a thing, so yknow

[Autumn Zephyr]

7 hours ago, nhehvnukl said:

Jan said Dynamax wont be a thing, so yknow

When did he say that? Last I heard, it was that it wouldn't be in V13 specifically, due to the fact that he already has to code in all of the new pokemon and the Rejuv. content before it could even be tackled.

[nhehvnukl]

58 minutes ago, Autumn Zephyr said:

When did he say that? Last I heard, it was that it wouldn't be in V13 specifically, due to the fact that he already has to code in all of the new pokemon and the Rejuv. content before it could even be tackled.

While I failed to find Jan's statement, Zumi Said: "Gen 8 will be added to Rejuv, but we won't be adding dynamaxing. Gigantamax might just be added as additional mega formes, but we'll see about that when SW/SH is out." as a reaction to ShadowQuilava's... Post? Thing? I dunno how to describe it, but I cant link it for some reason. I can post a screenshot though.

[Autumn Zephyr]

>Translating Gigantamax 'mons as alternate Megas

Spoiler

Oh, this seems like a neat take. Reduce the BST bonus to something like +75 instead of +100, and give 'em access to their unique attack (though maybe set it to only be usable once, ala Necrozma's Ultra Burst?), and you'll be set. Sure, that does mean that GMax!charizard will still be able to set up the Volcanic Field, but seeing as Mega Zard Y can already set up sun and would have higher stats as it is, I think it'll be a little bit of a fair competition between the two of those.

 

GMax!Butterfree, on the other hand, still high-key loses here. Whoops. 

 

G!MaxLapras will be handy for those who want to be able to use Aurora Veil without wanting to risk the chip damage from Hail or going full Mono-Ice. It's at least a noteworthy niche compared to the "generically solid" it currently has.

 

G!Max Gengar hardly seems worth using over Mega Gengar, at least for the time being. It'd be a bulkier build for sure, but seeming as it has to nail the opponent with an attack to trap them while Mega Gengar needs only to exist, I think the odds are stacked against it. Might be a useful substitute if it becomes available before the Gengarite does, but I'd probably be jumping ship once that happens- for both mechanical and aesthetic reasons!

 

G!Max Alcremie seems like it'd be a slightly better cleric/Doubles support than Mega Audino, especially if G-Max Finale winds up being multi-use. Being able to heal up the entire team at once is pretty big, and being able to Decorate allies in Double Battles when that's not needed (or usable) anymore is a big boon on its own. Also packing Helping Hand (via TM) and Misty Terrain (via Level Up) means it'll have other ways to be useful as well, though only having access to Mystical Fire to deal with enemy Steel Types may be an issue. Really, though, this creamy fella might be plenty useful in Rejuv. even without the Gigantamax Phenomenon, especially with its hearty 121 base Sp. Defense.

 

Speaking of support 'mons, G!Max Appletun's G-Max Sweetness seems like it'd be handy for clearing out Poisoning if you've been cycling your team through Toxic Spikes or something. I see this one being more useful without using up the Mega slot, though- the sacrificed attack would almost certainly be the awesome Apple Acid (an 80 BP attack that lowers survivors' Sp. Def by two stages? Sign me right up!), which doesn't seem like a worthwhile trade for "my secondary effect might be useful someday" to me. Appletun does at least have access to both Recover and Leech Seed, and if Gigantamaxing does improve its already-solid 110/80/80 bulk even further still, then maybe a purely defensive set might be viable? I dunno, looks like some serious opportunity cost to me.

 

Now that I'm looking into it, orbeetle doesn't really seem to have a whole lot it can take advantage of G-Max Gravitas with. Hypnosis, Supersonic, Hyper Beam, and Giga Impact don't exactly make up the most impressive list in the world. And with 6 Weaknesses undermining its otherwise solid bulk, well... I don't see this one really catching on when Mono-Psychic has access to mega Alakazam and Mega Gardevoir, and Mono-Bug has access to Mega Heracross and Mega Pinsir. A bit of a shame, seeing as I've been warming up to its design...

 

G!Max Copperajah would benefit more from this take if the G-Max Moves are multi-use, since one layer of Spikes isn't anywhere as useful as three of them, even if it does get Whirlwind as an Egg Move. Aside from that, the elephant is a really tanky 'mon by default, and a solid user of Heavy Slam even before Gigantamaxing (it's a decent 1,433 lbs, or 650 kg), though the lack of Status-inducing moves may hinder its viability a tad.

 

G!Max dreadnaw gets a move that is literally Stealth Rock+ heavy Water Damage. Unless you're dealing with Saki, or some other Type Specialist who resists Rock and isn't weak to Water, I don't see a situation where this wouldn't be useful- and even then, it's debatable. There's a reason why this one was one of the first officially revealed! 

 

I didn't cover all of them (let's be honest here, who's really gonna be attempting to run a certain Mystery Gift 'mon when we finally get access to the Mega Z-Ring?), but I think I got the ones I feel are the most worth examining through this situational lens. This is all speculation, mind, since we don't really know how the Rejuv. team's gonna handle this at all, but maybe some of my rambling will be useful anyway?