are Ledian and Cherim good?

[Gengar768]

How good is Ledian with its crest on  and Cherim with its crest. do the crests make a big difference or not?

[Swampellow]

They are both extremely good

[Gengar768]

@Swampellow Can i ask how good like because cherim and ledians stats are kinda ,whats the word crap  if you could can you explain to me what makes them so good?

[Swampellow]

Ledian gets an incredibly massive boost to all pinching moves.

cherrim has its ability active all of the time, and that makes it extremely bulky.

[kithas]

I have never seriously used Cherrim but I think Ledian gets a massive boost. Not only by multiplying by 4 all punch damage, but by also giving it 4 times the chance of secondary effects of each punch: 40% (like 10% for each hit) of the secondary effects with the elemental punch, 80% (20% for hit) of confusing with Dizzy, 4x boost to the Atk. with Power-up and my favorite, 4 heals with Drain punch.

[Gengar768]

@kithas

@Swampellow So all of that helps Ledians crumy attack stat?

 (Dear god iv done stat calculation and assuming all punch hits do the same.....thats busted af)

[kithas]

From what I know, it's basically a comet punch with 4 fixated punches, higher damage, and secondary effects. Suddenly competent would be an understatement.

[Lucky98]

4 hours ago, kithas said:

I have never seriously used Cherrim but I think Ledian gets a massive boost. Not only by multiplying by 4 all punch damage, but by also giving it 4 times the chance of secondary effects of each punch: 40% (like 10% for each hit) of the secondary effects with the elemental punch, 80% (20% for hit) of confusing with Dizzy, 4x boost to the Atk. with Power-up and my favorite, 4 heals with Drain punch.

Well, to be completely accurate, you can’t just multiple the percent chance of a secondary effect occurring by four because of the way probability works. 
 

4 elemental punches will have a 34.39% chance of secondary effects and 4 dizzy punches would have a 59.04% chance of confusing 

[kithas]

Yes, my bad xD But the general point stays the same

[Edo]

Also Stacking Shot, it's like using Rollout and immediately hitting 4 times with increasing damage, and from the second turn you already have max power.

And the strongest one: 4xFocus-Punch!

[Paperblade]

On 12/30/2019 at 2:36 PM, Gengar768 said:

@kithas

@Swampellow So all of that helps Ledians crumy attack stat?

 (Dear god iv done stat calculation and assuming all punch hits do the same.....thats busted af)

It hitting 4 times makes it attack stat comparable to Zacian-Crowned (Level 85 Zacian-C has 559 Attack with its ability factored in, Crested Ledian has the equivalent of 576). What "balances" Ledian is that there are no punching moves that it gets STAB on (instead it gets Iron Fist), its HP/Defense stats are still awful, and its 85 Speed means it's reliant on either Mach Punch or Agility to outspeed a lot of stuff (or have webs/tailwind). But I've gotten to Venus's Ledian enough times with 3-4 mons still up only to have it sweep me that I will say: Ledian Crest is pretty insane.

[Gengar768]

2 hours ago, Paperblade said:

It hitting 4 times makes it attack stat comparable to Zacian-Crowned (Level 85 Zacian-C has 559 Attack with its ability factored in, Crested Ledian has the equivalent of 576). What "balances" Ledian is that there are no punching moves that it gets STAB on (instead it gets Iron Fist), its HP/Defense stats are still awful, and its 85 Speed means it's reliant on either Mach Punch or Agility to outspeed a lot of stuff (or have webs/tailwind). But I've gotten to Venus's Ledian enough times with 3-4 mons still up only to have it sweep me that I will say: Ledian Crest is pretty insane

Damn........... Im gonna have to give Ledian a definite shot then

(Tho judging by how much people are talking about cherim I doubt im gonna even consider putting it in rotation)

[Paperblade]

4 hours ago, Gengar768 said:

Damn........... Im gonna have to give Ledian a definite shot then

(Tho judging by how much people are talking about cherim I doubt im gonna even consider putting it in rotation)

Cherrim becomes a fine special tank if you want that, but its mechanics are pretty straightforward and much more balanced than ledian

[axe-16]

get this right - in glitch field, thunder punch and ice punch (basically bolt beam) are special moves and will use Ledian's base 110 special defence stat as the attacking stat. Horrifying, absolutely horrifying, not okay, not alright, absolutely abhorrent amounts of power

[dudeguyman]

I haven't looked into Cherrim a lot, but the Ledian Crest is busted.

Full IV, 252 Attack EV, Adamant Ledian is like it had 740 Attack whenever it uses a punch move, git it Iron Fist with the Ability Capsule and it's going to be like it has 888, and does learn Mach Punch. 888 Attack Mach Punch is busted on its own. Then, the crest also makes secondary effects proc twice, and Ledian learns Power-Up Punch, which means it's a mini Mega Kangaskhan but its main move has priority. Survive one turn to land a Power-Up Punch and you're going to have 1776 Attack Mach Punch.

On top of that, it has access to Drain Punch for healing, and all the elemental punches for coverage, and U-Turn, which is U-Turn, except it won't hit hard at all.

Edited July 22 by dudeguyman