New Pokemon Like MMO: Temtem

[0ddman]

New Pokemon-like game goes into Early Access in a couple of weeks. Thoughts?

[Godot]

We spoke about it on the discord.  There are some people in this community interested in it.  I am probably going to be a Poison master person.  Majority of the Tems I like are poison type.

[doombotmecha]

I've been watching the vod of Jocat's stream. I'm pretty excited! I'll see if I can pick it up when it comes out on steam. Not a lot of the current tems are really in my edgy/weird sort of vein, but there's enough. I like that Cain's hair is in. I'm excited to see the rest of the digital temtem, which given my fixation on tech and so forth will likely be my main type. My favorite in the current version is Gyalis!

[Alisae]

I finished this game and I think sw/sh is better then it tbh.

Like the 1st island was great and I had a lot of fun there, especially after I got the surfboard. By the time I got the surfboard there wasn't any real clear objective and you can kind of just explore and do what you want.

The 2nd island is kinda just whatever to me.

I think the 3rd island kind of broke me with there being 29 or 30 trainers before any real story progress. I don't even care about the story, but having to go all of the way back, deal with these awful random encounters, heal, then redo all of my progress, deal with more awful random encounters, just to fight 2 trainers to then rinse and repeat it all over again? Then you progress through the story and while you are 

Spoiler

trying to break out of jail

there are wild encounters EVERYWHERE you go, and also there is more trainers with more backtracking because you have to go back and heal.

 

Like these are things that even SW/SH gets right.

in sw/sh there isn't any pointless level grinding
random encounters still exist but its not that big of an issue

and there isn't any pointless backtracking

[Salfy]

Its a cash grab they increased the price from 20 to 35 dollars

There is almost always a que and sometimes you're put in the que in the middle of the game

Also I have heard something about Tem Tem officials just banning random people for space in the que

This is my opinion so lets not start a fight pls

[Alisae]

queue times weren't really a problem for me.

[ShogokiX]

I can't relate to your problems. I'm playing Temtem right now and i'm having a blast. This games does a lot of things right that Pokémon failed to do for years. This game has a lot of potential and i hope it will turn into serious competition for Pokémon, since the monopoly Pokémon has on the market right now allowed Game Freak to pull this stunt that is Sword and Shield. As it's own games Sword/Shield may be good games, but as part of the Pokémon franchise they are the worst games of the main series.

 

And whatever you heard of "random people being banned by Temtem officials" is nothing more than a lie. Probably spread by people who got banned for trying to DDOS the game for the first hours after early access launch.

And yes, it IS confirmed that there was a DDOS attack on the game right as they launched early access.

 

Also, this is still an early access game, so it's not fair judging it as if it was a full release just yet.

[Alisae]

On 1/26/2020 at 3:37 AM, ShogokiX said:

This games does a lot of things right that Pokémon failed to do for years.

see I'm not exactly sure what you're getting this impression from, because my opinion of temtem atm is that I think sw/sh is better

[ShogokiX]

4 hours ago, Alisae said:

see I'm not exactly sure what you're getting this impression from, because my opinion of temtem atm is that I think sw/sh is better

For starters Pokémon fans always wanted a little more of a challenge. Temtem does that, since the battles are a little more challenging due to how the combat system works as a whole.

I also like the fact that you are not able to just perma spam your strongest all the time, since not only do the moves run on a shared stamina bar instead of individual PP for each move, but also a lot of moves come with a turn restriction, as in "you can only use this move every third turn"

 

Now one may think that is the double battle system that makes for a slightly higher difficulty, but that's not all. The removal of random factors like critical hits, attacks missing and the min/max rolls on damage multiplier are greatly improving the competetive factor of the game. Damage is calculated only on raw numbers, no rng involved. The same attack from the same Temtem on the same opponent will always do the same amount of damage.

 

There are a lot of other factors i could tell you about right now, like synergy moves and stuff like that, but let's not go too deep here. The short version of what i am trying to say is that Temtem manages to be more challenging without being too difficult. And you can't call it unfair, since there are no random factors involved in combat.

 

If you like i can also go into things like breeding and Temtem's equivalent of "EV and IV" training, but i'll end it here on that note for now. I can certainly see why you think that Pokémon Sword/Shield is better (at least atm), but like i said, Temtem is still in early access, so a lot of things are still not done, but those that are there are looking good right now. Also Temtem is a new IP while Pokémon has been around for over 20 years now and had more time to improve.

[Alisae]

Aside from this fucker

yeah, I will agree with everything you said about the combat and difficulty (this mon is the only real thing I would consider to be bullshit in this game because unlike Reborn where if you're struggling with dealing with a certain gym there's likely something you can pick up to help you, there is nothing you can pick up to help you deal with this thing except your starter).

 

However you are wrong about one thing which is you can still kinda spam your strongest move

Like, I was able to spam my main combo of Ganki and Nessla's Chain Lightning pretty easily

But there's a lot of depth to the mechanic and I definitely was not thinking about how to make the most of it.

 

Most of my problems of it come down from the fact that its still an RPG first and an MMO 2nd, and as an RPG, there are just so many things the game could have done better

- It would have been nice to see the game make an attempt at tackling things like level grinding. sw/sh does this with xp candies. EDIT: I really wish this was the game that solved this issue where I could battle say, a couple of wild mons to see what the new ones are, a couple of trainers, and have that be a viable playstyle. This is not the way the game was meant to be played. The way the game was meant to be played was for you to grind your ass off so that you're a high enough level so you can proceed. I hate this. I don't want to grind XP for 6 hours. I would really like to just fight some harder enemies and then fight a boss. Instead, I feel like this game places a lot of trainers everywhere because the devs didn't know how to pace their game.

- It would have been nice to see the game make an attempt at tackling the issue of random encounters. Temtem's grass is mostly mandatory and personally, I would like to see most of it being pushed to the side. I would also like to interact with temtem in the overworld and catch them. These are things sw/sh does.

- It would be nice if atleast a 1/4th of the trainers that are mandatory could be avoided. I got yelled at in the discord by people who thought the amount of trainers were just right. Personally, I think 29/30 trainers (even with checkpoints where you can heal) is a huge fuck you sign the player unless you can make your combat fun. Speaking of which.

- I do not think the combat is fun. Its improved, but I do not think temtem makes turn based combat fun.

- I could not care about this game's story. I think thats just a me thing tho, but I still think sw/sh are better games then temtem (and I still have never played sw/sh) and this kind of boils down as to why. For sw/sh, I feel like I could have a good time with it because while I do have this clear objective of completing the gym challenge so I can be the champion, I can explore a wild area, I can do max raid battles, I can have fun without having a real objective. Like, as an adventure, sw/sh seems like it would be a lot of fun and the player character has a clear goal. I'm still kind of confused as to what the player character's goal is? Why are they doing the dojo challenge? Why is the dojo challenge important? The adventure isn't fun to me here because there's nothing driving it. I actually feel like I have no real reason to go to these places that I am going to aside from characters telling me to go to them and deciding to go to them because I have no real reason not to. The quests have mostly felt like busy work to me. I'm not sure how talking to multiple NPCs in a bar is supposed to be fun? Like, this game isn't Earthbound or Paper Mario The Thousnad Year Door, the npcs aren't that worth talking to. When I am questing or do anything to proceed with the main story, it just feels like busy work to me. And if I was playing sw/sh, I would probably be enjoying that because the adventure itself is enjoyable, and this is the reason why I love Pokemon and want it to be good.

 

Like, I get Temtem is not an RPG but an MMO, but to fully experience the MMO, you have to play the RPG elements of it first, and the RPG elements suck and are even kind of behind Pokemon.

The game has a good combat system. Its not one that I think is fun, but its siginificantly better then Pokemon's (Also, if Gamefreak decided their next mainline game was a doubles only game, then that game would be significantly harder then the previous games because difficulty itself comes from the doubles format)

The game has a lot of really good monsters (I do feel like a lot of the fire ones all look the same but generally, these monsters are actually amazing and to me seem like the main appeal for me).

Everything else kind of just sucks.

[ShogokiX]

Seeing your point of view with all this information from your side makes it easier to understand what it is that you don't like. However, as much as i do understand your opinion on the matter i still think that for my taste the game is just right. Allow me to tell you my side of the points you have been making.

 

-Yes, you are right, the grinding is kind of time consuming, but let's be honest here: A lot of well known RPGs involve grinding. So this is not an issue with Temtem itself. I don't know about how Sword/Shield tried to keep grinding to a minimum, since i absolutely don't care about these games. But as far as i can remember you never needed to do any grinding to beat Pokémon EVER. The grinding startet after you beat the game and you start training your competetive teams. For me the grinding in Temtem is not much different than grinding in Reborn and Rejuvenation if you need to spice up your team a little to beat certain opponents (mainly gyms or boss type opponents ofc)

 

-You say that most of the NPCs feel like they are not of any matter to the story at all. To be honest, that is just like Pokémon. For example: If you were to swap the gym leaders around between generations the games wouldn't change one bit. That of course is just my personal opinion, but i never felt like the official Pokémon games had a story at all. Again, i have not played Sword/Shield, so i cant judge there, but as fas as i am concerned these games don't even exist. On a side note: You can actually avoid about 1/4 of the trainers on most routes in Temtem, but i took all of them, because free EXP and money.

 

-About spamming your strongest moves: Yes, you can actually create a few nice chain combos that can last a while (and finding good synergy combos is actually a nice element of the game's combat mechanics), but the strongest moves that i encountered so far are actually consuming lots of stamina and/or have a 3 or even 4 turn limitation that allows to use them only every so often. Also on a site note: The thing on that picture (which is called Sparzy, and is an electric type, btw) does have a weakness to crystal and earth type moves. Aside from the Starter named Crystle other early game counters are Tateru and Skail, both being neutral types, with no weakness to electric, and both learning Sand Splatter pretty fast, which in turn is effective against Sparzy. Or you could use Saku, which is resistent to electric and can do neutral damage with its poison or nature attacks.

 

But you are right, Temtem DOES have its fair share of issues that i can not look away from, acting as if these don't exist. It is fair to point those out, however we don't know what parts of the game are still subject to change, as this is still an early access. And you know that the first thing you see when launching the game is this notification that literally says exactly that. Of course, early access is not an excuse for everything, but so far the developers have been very much devoted to improve the game, and i am willing to give both the developers and the game the fair chance they deserve, even with the flaws it may currently have.

[Alisae]

35 minutes ago, ShogokiX said:

On a side note: You can actually avoid about 1/4 of the trainers on most routes in Temtem, but i took all of them, because free EXP and money.

Not on the 3rd island!
And even then, it feels like those are very far and in between, especially on the 2nd island.

35 minutes ago, ShogokiX said:

The thing on that picture (which is called Sparzy, and is an electric type, btw) does have a weakness to crystal and earth type moves. Aside from the Starter named Crystle other early game counters are Tateru and Skail, both being neutral types, with no weakness to electric, and both learning Sand Splatter pretty fast, which in turn is effective against Sparzy.

Yes I looked into this, Sparzy hits harder. Everything on the island is wind, 2 wind natures, 1 wind electric, and 2 pure wind. 

It hits pretty hard. It seems to be a good mon that hits hard and you can’t do much to it other then make it use up its stamina.

I had the psychic starter so it was basically murdering my whole team.

35 minutes ago, ShogokiX said:

A lot of well known RPGs involve grinding.

And RPGs have been the worst games ever made for the past 30 years.

[ShogokiX]

59 minutes ago, Alisae said:

And RPGs have been the worst games ever made for the past 30 years.

That one i take as a personal insult XD

You might want to be careful with statements like those, especially around a Pokémon community, since Pokémon is also an RPG.

[Commander]

5 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

That one i take as a personal insult XD

You might want to be careful with statements like those, especially around a Pokémon community, since Pokémon is also an RPG.

That...is debatable if it should even be considered an RPG. Earlier ones were more of a sandbox module and quite bare bones even for the times. There is charm to that but it really is the odd duck.

 

I can't say much on Temtem as it honestly holds no interest to me but I can throw the towel in on RPG subjects that seem to have popped up today. Let me just address a couple of them:

 

Random encounters and high amount of battles is more of an old school thing. Games didn't have a lot to develop off of so those were there to slow down the pace. In reality it more likely is more of an annoyance in Temtem than an actual fault but it grinds down to patience. Not everyone can take an hour to get to the next exciting thing. It depends on tastes really but it is filler when it grinds down to it. RPGs are notorious for filler leading to ridiculously long games.

 

Now for stuff being difficult. I'm going to take a stab and say Temtem is too easy if that's the worse thing on there. But Temtem gave me the impression it is about the online experience so it is hard to say how good the game is when we only see a bit right now. But a boss being obscurely hard is not uncommon. Makes you feel like a champ when you when.

[Alisae]

34 minutes ago, Commander said:

Random encounters and high amount of battles is more of an old school thing. Games didn't have a lot to develop off of so those were there to slow down the pace. In reality it more likely is more of an annoyance in Temtem than an actual fault but it grinds down to patience. Not everyone can take an hour to get to the next exciting thing. It depends on tastes really but it is filler when it grinds down to it. RPGs are notorious for filler leading to ridiculously long games.

Yeah, it was acceptable for things like Random Encounters, Quad Digit Stats, Pointless Backtracking, Stat Weapons, and Level Grinding back then.

So why are these acceptable now?

EDIT2: Also, here's the thing.
Its okay to say that RPGs are the worst games ever made for the past 30 years.

As a game designer, its your job to figure out "Ok, so these are the issues that plagued the genre, how do we fix them?"

 

Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door does this.
Turn Based Combat? Fun and is about the player's skill not about the player's free time.

Random Encounters? Nope, they're in the overworld, you can run into them if you need to fight them

Quad Digit Stats? Lol

Stat Weapons? Outclassed by the badge system
Level Grinding? Phased out due to the way you can approach enemies

 

It didn't beat Pointless Backtracking, but thats a significantly easy fix.

Anyhow, PMTTYD fixed most of these issues

its a good rpg

slap some good writing audio and visuals, and surprise

you have a good fucking video game

I know Persona 5 is also good but I haven't played it so I can't say for sure if it beats these issues.

EDIT:

34 minutes ago, Commander said:

But Temtem gave me the impression it is about the online experience so it is hard to say how good the game

No chat atm, so not much online experience aside from seeing a bunch of people running around with their temtems.

I didn't play around with this tho mostly because I don't have friends.

 

Also, something I really don't get is the community. In the discord I kind of mentioned a bit about how the high amount of battles really bothered me, and apparently in response to that I got told to play a different game if I am complaining about the high amount of battles, so if someone sees good in it aside from the Combat and the Temtem themselves, I would really like to hear why, but I get the feeling the community is fairly toxic.

[xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx]

I've not a lot of thoughts on Temtem itself, the monster designs don't do anything for me and the MMO aspect is greatly offputting. That said there's still a fair few things to respond to in this thread.

 

On 1/24/2020 at 6:58 PM, Salfy said:

Its a cash grab they increased the price from 20 to 35 dollars

Also I have heard something about Tem Tem officials just banning random people for space in the que

Some games have reduced costs for preordering, in order to get profits earlier. I haven't heard of any queue bans, but I've seen unsourced reports of the moderators wanting to force a very specific type of community and are heavy-handed with bans.
 

On 1/26/2020 at 3:37 AM, ShogokiX said:

This game has a lot of potential and i hope it will turn into serious competition for Pokémon, since the monopoly Pokémon has on the market right now allowed Game Freak to pull this stunt that is Sword and Shield. As it's own games Sword/Shield may be good games, but as part of the Pokémon franchise they are the worst games of the main series.

I doubt Temtem will last any period of time. MMOs aren't exactly a popular genre anymore, and from what I've seen there's little there to keep players logging in and paying for the various costs. I wouldn't even call Sw/Sh decent on their own, but Pokémon has enough of a dedicated fanbase to keep it going, and there are various events going on often enough for people to reasonably keep invested.
 

On 1/26/2020 at 3:37 AM, ShogokiX said:

Also, this is still an early access game, so it's not fair judging it as if it was a full release just yet.

Saying it's early access isn't really a defense, you're basically just gambling that maybe it'll get better and early-access has a lot of games that failed. Additionally, the developers felt that it was not only in a releasable state, but good enough to ask for money for. Defending any flaw with a "maybe" also isn't doing the devs any favors since it gives them an easy way to get out from any criticisms. 

 

21 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

Now one may think that is the double battle system that makes for a slightly higher difficulty, but that's not all. The removal of random factors like critical hits, attacks missing and the min/max rolls on damage multiplier are greatly improving the competetive factor of the game. Damage is calculated only on raw numbers, no rng involved. The same attack from the same Temtem on the same opponent will always do the same amount of damage.

No RNG also makes everything extremely stale, if everything is a stable and constant theres fewer risks to calculate. No missing means there's never a risk to using a high-power but inaccurate move, and consistent damage means there's never a reason to use a less reliable move to guarantee a kill versus risking a low roll.
Even with a game as RNG-heavy as pokémon there is often discussion that competitive formats are extremely easy to flowchart.

 

14 hours ago, Alisae said:

- It would have been nice to see the game make an attempt at tackling things like level grinding. sw/sh does this with xp candies. EDIT: I really wish this was the game that solved this issue where I could battle say, a couple of wild mons to see what the new ones are, a couple of trainers, and have that be a viable playstyle. This is not the way the game was meant to be played. The way the game was meant to be played was for you to grind your ass off so that you're a high enough level so you can proceed. I hate this. I don't want to grind XP for 6 hours. I would really like to just fight some harder enemies and then fight a boss. Instead, I feel like this game places a lot of trainers everywhere because the devs didn't know how to pace their game.

Leveling and reliant on having high numbers than your enemies is something that comes with a lot of poorly designed RPGs unfortunately, you can use other strategies in a lot of them but even in good RPGs simply having higher numbers is enough to muscle through anything without ever needing to think or strategize. Having so many NPC trainers also speaks that the EXP curve is slow, so instead of tough fights meaning a lot you just have slow annoying fights where you backtrack every so often to heal after mindlessly spamming your good moves.

 

14 hours ago, Alisae said:

- It would have been nice to see the game make an attempt at tackling the issue of random encounters. Temtem's grass is mostly mandatory and personally, I would like to see most of it being pushed to the side. I would also like to interact with temtem in the overworld and catch them. These are things sw/sh does.

Overworld vs Random encounters is a manner of debate and personal preference, but sw/sh actually handed it well aside from the technical issues. A mix of both manages to solve the issues of needing to chase down enemies if you want/need to mindlessly grind for a bit, and also lets you know whats in an area without having to waste time to find out if theres any low rate encounters.

 

14 hours ago, Alisae said:

- I could not care about this game's story. I think thats just a me thing tho [...]  Why are they doing the dojo challenge? Why is the dojo challenge important? The adventure isn't fun to me here because there's nothing driving it. I actually feel like I have no real reason to go to these places that I am going to aside from characters telling me to go to them and deciding to go to them because I have no real reason not to.

A holdover from wanting to be a Pokémon MMO, you take the on the gyms Dojos because that's what you do. The Pokémon games usually give a brief explanation of it being the Player's dream, but there's also some other things that come up and give the player investment outside of go to place, get badge, rinse & repeat until end.

Rivals motivate players, the Team X plots motivate players, etc. and what motivates players in Temtem?

 

9 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

-Yes, you are right, the grinding is kind of time consuming, but let's be honest here: A lot of well known RPGs involve grinding. So this is not an issue with Temtem itself.

Except that is an issue with Temtem, they elected to ignore one of the major demerits of the genre because everyone else did. To use a metaphor, If everyone decided to stab themselves in the leg because someone did before them, would it be okay for you to do so?

 

9 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

-You say that most of the NPCs feel like they are not of any matter to the story at all. To be honest, that is just like Pokémon. For example: If you were to swap the gym leaders around between generations the games wouldn't change one bit. That of course is just my personal opinion, but i never felt like the official Pokémon games had a story at all.

NPCs can have text that hints to the greater world's working, or advice, warnings of nearby mons, hints towards sidequsts or simply decent jokes. A game I played recently, that I cannot name due to this forum's ToS, had NPCs change dialogue depending on a few different factors notably the time of day/night, and what state the Player currently was in. You could get items, or minor quests depending on that.

I got away from the point a bit, but if a lot of NPCs have pointless filler text the solution is to simply have less NPCs.

 

2 hours ago, Commander said:

Random encounters and high amount of battles is more of an old school thing. Games didn't have a lot to develop off of so those were there to slow down the pace. In reality it more likely is more of an annoyance in Temtem than an actual fault but it grinds down to patience. Not everyone can take an hour to get to the next exciting thing. It depends on tastes really but it is filler when it grinds down to it. RPGs are notorious for filler leading to ridiculously long games.

Not really, lots of early RPGs were based off of tabletop games and how to simulate those with the game acting as an impartial, if limited, DM.
WRPGs tended to go for more player choices and options, predicting and simulating what a Player in a tabletop game might want to do. JRPGs took more direct inspiration from the genre's early instances - copying from Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy without really understanding why those games were made the way they were.

 

2 hours ago, Alisae said:

I know Persona 5 is also good but I haven't played it so I can't say for sure if it beats these issues.

It's not, snazzy UI and OST are the most it has going for it. Atlus repeating a lot of the mistakes of P3/4 because those games made a lot of money for them.

 

2 hours ago, Alisae said:

Also, something I really don't get is the community. In the discord I kind of mentioned a bit about how the high amount of battles really bothered me, and apparently in response to that I got told to play a different game if I am complaining about the high amount of battles, so if someone sees good in it aside from the Combat and the Temtem themselves, I would really like to hear why, but I get the feeling the community is fairly toxic.

I see a lot of mentions of "toxicity" in various communities, yet not once to this day has anyone elaborated on what "toxic" actually means. Could you please be the first?

[Alisae]

4 hours ago, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

A holdover from wanting to be a Pokémon MMO, you take the on the gyms Dojos because that's what you do. The Pokémon games usually give a brief explanation of it being the Player's dream, but there's also some other things that come up and give the player investment outside of go to place, get badge, rinse & repeat until end.

Rivals motivate players, the Team X plots motivate players, etc. and what motivates players in Temtem?

Pokemon hasn't seen a rival that has motivated me in years.

Temtem's rival is a spoiled brat that I could not care for.

The team in this game I kinda couldn't care about and I don't think any team was as interesting as Team Plasma (btw I didn't play the gen 5 games so I wouldn't know). Team Rocket was kinda the best imo.

However, I know when I boot up a pokemon game, I am in for some kind of adventure.

In Temtem the professor just tells you to go to this place to learn more about temtem which then leads into another person telling her to go to her town which leads to another person telling you to go here which then leads into encountering the evil team. You do that now you can take on the dojo so you do that and you go to the next place you're told to go.
This doesn't change btw.

 

4 hours ago, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

Except that is an issue with Temtem, they elected to ignore one of the major demerits of the genre because everyone else did. To use a metaphor, If everyone decided to stab themselves in the leg because someone did before them, would it be okay for you to do so?

"Hey, lets design an RPG"
"Oh boy, what should we put in it?"
"We're going to stuff it with the things that people hate the most in RPGs!"

"Love it! Lets do it!"

 

4 hours ago, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

NPCs can have text that hints to the greater world's working, or advice, warnings of nearby mons, hints towards sidequsts or simply decent jokes. A game I played recently, that I cannot name due to this forum's ToS, had NPCs change dialogue depending on a few different factors notably the time of day/night, and what state the Player currently was in. You could get items, or minor quests depending on that.

I got away from the point a bit, but if a lot of NPCs have pointless filler text the solution is to simply have less NPCs.

oh my god

I hate Temtem trainers

not only do I have to battle to every single one

but I have to engage in conversation with every single one

and ontop of that, what I say doesn't matter, its not going to make the trainer not want to battle me

its literally wasting your time

Like atleast a trainer in Pokemon walks up to you and gets straight to the point

in this fucking game you have to talk to these people like why?

 

If you're going to give me the illusion of choice, atleast give me a dialogue option that allows me to skip the battles. That would have actually been really cool!

4 hours ago, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

I see a lot of mentions of "toxicity" in various communities, yet not once to this day has anyone elaborated on what "toxic" actually means. Could you please be the first?

So, I'm going to describe what a toxic community is not like.

A toxic community is not welcoming towards new members.
A toxic community is does not remember that behind a username, there is a person

A toxic community can but may not always be anti-semetic, racist, use the R word a lot, use the F word a lot.

A toxic community may not be open to someone who has a different opinion as them

A toxic community will always have drama within it.

 

Like, shit you would expect from like gamer culture and the internet.

 

There's probably more, but on my homesite, I would call that a good community.

- They're welcoming towards new people and are probably the nicest people I have ever met on the internet.

- They try to remember that behind a username there is a person with feelings.

- They're mostly adults.

 

Like, I feel like I'm doing a bad job at describing it, but the best way to find out is to explore for yourself.

Just play league of legends with chat enabled, eventually you'll get flamed. Its bound to happen.

EDIT: Ok so there is a lot of complaining about the 3rd island on the temtem forums, and I'm in that thread. And I am seriously reading people say "I think Tucma's was really enjoyable and well-paced and unique story for these type of games. While they took the risk of using unpleasant gameplay." This is actually a thing that I just read. What fucking sick shit will people make up for calling that area "good gameplay?" What the fuck is wrong with people? Like, literally you can have an enjoyable, well-paced, and unique story, and have good gameplay. Your game isn't a fucking art piece. People have to play it.

[Godot]

Holy mother of text walls.

[xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx]

12 hours ago, Alisae said:

Pokemon hasn't seen a rival that has motivated me in years.

Temtem's rival is a spoiled brat that I could not care for.

The team in this game I kinda couldn't care about and I don't think any team was as interesting as Team Plasma (btw I didn't play the gen 5 games so I wouldn't know). Team Rocket was kinda the best imo.

Team Rocket is basic, but you want to stop them. I won't go into Gen 5 spoilers, but Plasma was interesting. Felt like Gamefreak didn't go as far as they should have with the concept though.

 

12 hours ago, Alisae said:

"Hey, lets design an RPG"
"Oh boy, what should we put in it?"
"We're going to stuff it with the things that people hate the most in RPGs!"

"Love it! Lets do it!"

The conversation probably went more like "How much from Pokémon can we use without getting in legal trouble." It doesn't seem like they really did much to make Pokémon work in the MMO format.

 

12 hours ago, Alisae said:

So, I'm going to describe what a toxic community is not like.

A toxic community is not welcoming towards new members.
A toxic community is does not remember that behind a username, there is a person

A toxic community can but may not always be anti-semetic, racist, use the R word a lot, use the F word a lot.

A toxic community may not be open to someone who has a different opinion as them

A toxic community will always have drama within it.

Thanks for the effort, but that doesn't really tell me what "toxic" is. You also started off by saying what a "toxic" community isn't like, then changed your mind mid-way through. You just said what a "toxic" community is vaguely like, without actually defining what "toxic" is.

It's like saying an apple is Red, Round and Edible. It's true but it doesn't really say what makes an apple an apple instead of something else.

 

12 hours ago, Alisae said:

There's probably more, but on my homesite, I would call that a good community.

[...]

Just play league of legends with chat enabled, eventually you'll get flamed. Its bound to happen.

What is your homesite if you don't mind me asking? I actually did play LoL a few times some years back, real boring.

 

12 hours ago, Alisae said:

EDIT: Ok so there is a lot of complaining about the 3rd island on the temtem forums, and I'm in that thread. And I am seriously reading people say "I think Tucma's was really enjoyable and well-paced and unique story for these type of games. While they took the risk of using unpleasant gameplay." This is actually a thing that I just read. What fucking sick shit will people make up for calling that area "good gameplay?" What the fuck is wrong with people? Like, literally you can have an enjoyable, well-paced, and unique story, and have good gameplay. Your game isn't a fucking art piece. People have to play it.

A lot of RPGs get a pass for bad/mindless gameplay for good story, and a lot of the time the stories aren't any good, but since people play them for so long they convince themselves that it's better than it is.

 

2 hours ago, Godot said:

Holy mother of text walls.

Thank you for your contribution to this conversation.

[ShogokiX]

About toxic communities....i will send you a PM trying to explain this in a little more detail, @xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx

 

I'm not doing this here because i don't want to start anything that might escalate.

[Commander]

5 hours ago, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

A lot of RPGs get a pass for bad/mindless gameplay for good story, and a lot of the time the stories aren't any good, but since people play them for so long they convince themselves that it's better than it is.

I'm a bit off topic but I just want to say that yes, this absolutely is true. Doesn't bother me but feel like we could get into quite the discussion if I get carried away. You have a lot of good points. But the things I want to point out...

 

5 hours ago, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

The conversation probably went more like "How much from Pokémon can we use without getting in legal trouble." It doesn't seem like they really did much to make Pokémon work in the MMO format.

It isnt as common to talk about recycling systems in RPGs since 90% of the time they all use the same core mechanics with a few alterations. Fighting games it goes for a bigger discussion. Anyways, the best examples for Pokemon like games done right are Digimon and Persona. Both have the same core concept as Pokemon but you'd be out of your damn mind to say they are like Pokemon. TemTem definitely scoots quite close to the Pokemon line. Not necessarily a bad thing, but should be allowed to be compared to Pokemon.

 

6 hours ago, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

Thanks for the effort, but that doesn't really tell me what "toxic" is. You also started off by saying what a "toxic" community isn't like, then changed your mind mid-way through. You just said what a "toxic" community is vaguely like, without actually defining what "toxic" is.

It's like saying an apple is Red, Round and Edible. It's true but it doesn't really say what makes an apple an apple instead of something else.

Ah yes I can't day I'm quite familiar with how the term is used but from my guess it originally was used to label communities who did absolutely disgusting things from constant harassment from anyone outside the circle to straight up throwing porn in areas children could get into. Seen some pretty messed up communities though only from an outsider perspective not really being part of one. Of course words get watered down like crazy.

 

"All fandoms are cults" is one of my favorite things to quote because of how this whole thing works. Someone tell me I'm wrong in this instance but you got a whole bunch of stupid teenagers talking about stuff. There's the group who thinks they are better than everyone and call people struggling that they suck, those who cannot find fault in the game and lash on the people who criticize, people who hate the game for the sake of hating it, that one guy who tries to ruin everyone's fun, and people seeing all this acting like it is the worst thing ever labeling it as too "toxic" to be around, and most people who just want everyone to shut up and enjoy the game. Also the constant battle of people complaining about the game demanding fixes if it is one using online capabilities.

 

The game has only been out for like a week. Things will start to settle down over the next month or so. 

 

Also I still have no idea what TemTem is other than it looks like FlyFF tried to make SuMo.

[ShogokiX]

5 hours ago, Commander said:

There's the group who thinks they are better than everyone and call people struggling that they suck, those who cannot find fault in the game and lash on the people who criticize, people who hate the game for the sake of hating it, that one guy who tries to ruin everyone's fun, and people seeing all this acting like it is the worst thing ever labeling it as too "toxic" to be around, and most people who just want everyone to shut up and enjoy the game. Also the constant battle of people complaining about the game demanding fixes if it is one using online capabilities.

You forgot those that generally blame everyone else on their team for their own mistakes. The type of player who never makes any mistakes, because he's elite! HE is the one who messed up, but of course it's still YOUR fault, since he is a perfect, infallible being! So you deserve to be called names and to be told to uninstall the game.

 

I played a certain game (that i don't want to name, as i don't want to cause a scene) long enough, from the beta launch actually, and until about 2 years ago, to watch the downfall happen. For about the first year or so everyone was playing nice and competetive. We used to tell anyone that started causing a scene that if you want to be toxic you should go play Counter Strike! But of course said toxic players found their way into the game as well as that game got more popular. And i can tell you from personal experience that if you like a game enough that you try to ignore the community growing more toxic by day, there is only one thing to do: You need to be prepared to flip your own a-hole switch and just dominate the match by yourself, leaving them in the dust in terms of personal score. You don't need to say a single word, just dominate the game. The best way to shut those people up is to win the match and have the best personal score on your team. If they still trashtalk, you just pull the "your score vs my score - get on my level before you dare speak to me" card. Usually works....

Yes, they will hate you, but why care, they hate on you if you play bad, they also hate on you if you play better than they do. No difference if they hate you by default anyway.

 

But as i already said, i quit that certain game about 2 years ago. As much as i liked the game itself, i felt like i could no longer turn a blind eye on the fact that this community has a free pass on all sorts of bad behavior, since the company behind that game failed to step in and stop the madness before it got out of hand. And i don't want to get associated with a community like that.

[Godot]

Toxic isn’t always being an asshat.  Toxic can also come from being nice.  The concept of “being toxic” is that you are encouraging negative or detrimental behavior.  If you tell someone “YOU FUCKING SUCK” it hurts that person’s feelings and demotivates them.  However if you tell someone “you are doing a great job” when they are either not performing the best or doing something fundamentally wrong, you can be seen as encouraging them to never seek improvement.  Therefore they are having their minds poisoned to think nothing is wrong.

I’m guessing what he meant by toxic is that they only allow positive feedback?  Idk if the banning people for constructive criticism thing has any grounds... but tbf who wants people in your community that does nothing but complain or shit talk?  I’ve been lurking the Temtem server for a long while and I’ve never seen or heard anything about it being toxic.  It does however attract certain types of people.

 

Lastly I haven’t put a ton of time into the game yet, from what I’ve played I’m incredibly mixed.

On 1/29/2020 at 12:54 PM, xX_Rock_Wrecker_Xx said:

Thank you for your contribution to this conversation.

You welcome bUUUUUUUUDDY

 

[0ddman]

Temtem is just in a very early state so a lot of this stuff and problems temtem currently have will be iron out or fixed with each coming update, like the grinding or the lack of stuff to do.

[Godot]

That won’t fix the elements that seem intentional.