The Tragic Family

[Johnny_Nevori]

OK, so like 2 days ago I ran into this girl... thought she was kinda childish... then I run into her again... but now I think shes a hypocrite...

Spoiler

 

I get that she's trying to be a "rebel" but her words describe literally every evil organization that Pokemon games ever had.

 

Idk, maybe it was just a bad choice of words or how she worded it, but her words just kinda bug me.

 

Sorry for the rant

Edited March 1, 2020 by Johnny_Nevori

[pvstelsouls]

That’s alright, I thought of her the same way when I first played the game too. You’ll get more of an insight on her as you progress through the story.

[Johnny_Nevori]

Don't tell me but hopefully she changes her tune

[kithas]

So yeah, a ten year-old kid wants to be a kid hero in a pokemon game, you'll have to admit it isn't unheard of. Also, don't expect the better judgment from a kid anyways

[Lucifer Morningstar]

You'll find out that her behavior isn't entirely uncalled for particularly if you found all the missing police officers. 

You get her backstory soon following the scene in your screen cap. 

[Johnny_Nevori]

15 hours ago, Devilish said:

You'll find out that her behavior isn't entirely uncalled for particularly if you found all the missing police officers. 

You get her backstory soon following the scene in your screen cap. 

I kinda get it but honestly I'm on the father's side, Kinda felt bad for the dude, lost his wife and his daughter became unruly and left him with nothing

 

although its kinda symmetry in both story lines of them she left him in a time of need and he left her in a time of need and the mother left them both in need

 

tragic really.

 

And to think I was gonna pull a Corey a few months ago, now seeing it unfold in the story, its weird, idk I guess I see it from a different aspect.

 

On 2/29/2020 at 7:49 AM, kithas said:

So yeah, a ten year-old kid wants to be a kid hero in a pokemon game, you'll have to admit it isn't unheard of. Also, don't expect the better judgment from a kid anyways

I get that I was more so focused on that particular sentence that she made. It just really sounded like every bad guy team in pokemon.

 

I mean just changes one or two words and BAM! Evil Team

"People try to stop Team Magma all the time, but those fools are stupid."

[Lucifer Morningstar]

1 hour ago, Johnny_Nevori said:

I kinda get it but honestly I'm on the father's side, Kinda felt bad for the dude, lost his wife and his daughter became unruly and left him with nothing

 

although its kinda symmetry in both story lines of them she left him in a time of need and he left her in a time of need and the mother left them both in need

 

tragic really.

 

And to think I was gonna pull a Corey a few months ago, now seeing it unfold in the story, its weird, idk I guess I see it from a different aspect.

So just because he got dealt a shitty hand made it alright for him to deal his child a shitty hand?

[Johnny_Nevori]

And what was he supposed to do? just sit there and take and live alone in agony? or pretend nothings wrong? mask/hide everything? and so what then, he escaped hell and now he's the bad guy?

 

remember she wanted to be an adult, on her own, NO RULES, and she tore him down and left. she acted like an adult, talked like an adult, put herself in adult situations, this is what she chose, she said she wasn't going back, she wanted to be on her own now she has to deal with her own actions

 

But I totally get her side of the story I really do, you hear stories like it all the time.

 

They both did things wrong and they both have had shitty lives and Its just really tragic for both of them.

 

Also the story Isn't all the way put together as I couldn't find much back story to any of the 3 characters outside of the small story that had already been told. kinda wished there was more

 

But I found out that Corey was based off of Ame's real life friend.

[kithas]

The point was (from my point of view) that Corey was nihilistic after his wife's death, saw life as suffering and that's what he tried educating his daughter in. And then Heather had her angst against a father that didn't give her the freedom she sought (in part bc she was a child but in part bc life as suffering) and then potentially discovers what is Corey doing. So I'm saying there's a thing about neglect going out there.

[Johnny_Nevori]

honestly the story is too small to grab the whole thing

 

but yeah from what i read the dude had issues and needed help but obviously never got it

 

i kinda saw it as he was just trying to shield her from what happened to her mother and all the horrors of the world and when he realized he failed her, he couldn't take it no longer and left this world.

[wcv]

14 hours ago, Johnny_Nevori said:

I kinda get it but honestly I'm on the father's side, Kinda felt bad for the dude, lost his wife and his daughter became unruly and left him with nothing

So uh...you didn't find all the police officers?

 

Heather's completely in the right.

[Johnny_Nevori]

3 minutes ago, wcv said:

So uh...you didn't find all the police officers?

 

Heather's completely in the right.

I did find them, cause if you find them all then you get the Growlithe which is my favorite.

 

they both are wrong and right at certain degrees

[TheVentusX]

2 hours ago, wcv said:

So uh...you didn't find all the police officers?

 

Heather's completely in the right.

I think there are always two sides of a coin. Both of them have their reasons for their decisions and both of them are neither right or wrong, but as always it depends on the point of view...

[Johnny_Nevori]

25 minutes ago, TheVentusX said:

I think there are always two sides of a coin. Both of them have their reasons for their decisions and both of them are neither right or wrong, but as always it depends on the point of view...

exactly

[Lua]

Heather may be in the wrong, but she's also 10 years old.

She's a kid. Sometimes, kids say dumb things, and most of the time, kids think they're way, way more mature than they actually are. "Come on, I'm a super strong trainer, of course I should be allowed to take down an evil team, and everyone who says I can't is stupid!" is perfectly sound reasoning to a kid. An adult might know why it's, uh, kind of a bad idea to try and fight criminals when you're literally just 10 years old, but a child may not.

 

As for Corey... I feel sad about him, yeah. He got dealt a shitty hand, and he tried to raise his daughter in the way he thought was best for her. He didn't actually do it right, though. Don't ask me what he should've done, I don't have kids and "I have no idea how to raise one" is one of the reasons I don't want any, but he definitely didn't do it right.

 

I wouldn't call Heather a hypocrite though. Yeah, sure, "People who try to stop the evil team are dumb!" may be said by an evil team member, but it's not the point of them. They've got a goal ("Acquire more money" or "Make the oceans/landmass bigger" or "I want everyone in Reborn City to leave") that will hurt people, and sure, it's obvious people might try to stop them, but it's futile because they're stronger and have a big amount of members.

Heather wants to save people and doesn't get why people would not want a 10 year old kid to go catch the bad guys.

I'm pretty sure members of evil teams have said lots of things I've said, too, but that hopefully doesn't make me a hypocrite when I'm against them.

[wcv]

2 hours ago, Johnny_Nevori said:

I did find them, cause if you find them all then you get the Growlithe which is my favorite.

 

they both are wrong and right at certain degrees

I see no particular right on Corey's side. The reasons why are spoilers for later in the story.

 

Also doesn't help that Heather is easily the most powerful trainer there at that point in the story, and the fact she didn't stomp Corey flat then immediately do the same to Taka and ZEL is kinda heascratchy.

1 hour ago, TheVentusX said:

I think there are always two sides of a coin. Both of them have their reasons for their decisions and both of them are neither right or wrong, but as always it depends on the point of view...

Spoiler

Corey joined Team Meteor with both eyes open. He made excuses, maybe even believed them, but he willingly became a terrorist, a traitor, and a murderer. He joined Team Meteor after he knew they killed his wife, and has advanced their goals throughout his life since. I feel about as much sympathy for him as I do Taka.

 

Which is to say, none.

 

[Johnny_Nevori]

1 hour ago, wcv said:

I see no particular right on Corey's side. The reasons why are spoilers for later in the story.

 

Also doesn't help that Heather is easily the most powerful trainer there at that point in the story, and the fact she didn't stomp Corey flat then immediately do the same to Taka and ZEL is kinda heascratchy.

  Hide contents

Corey joined Team Meteor with both eyes open. He made excuses, maybe even believed them, but he willingly became a terrorist, a traitor, and a murderer. He joined Team Meteor after he knew they killed his wife, and has advanced their goals throughout his life since. I feel about as much sympathy for him as I do Taka.

 

Which is to say, none.

 

infiltration and sabotage yet he obviously never got to finish what he was doing -https://pokemon-reborn.fandom.com/wiki/Corey

Quote

Later on in the game after the player obtains the Silver Card, you can read in his journal that he originally joined Team Meteor to sabotage them and get revenge on Sirius for killing his wife Elena.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lua said:

Heather may be in the wrong, but she's also 10 years old.

She's a kid. Sometimes, kids say dumb things, and most of the time, kids think they're way, way more mature than they actually are. "Come on, I'm a super strong trainer, of course I should be allowed to take down an evil team, and everyone who says I can't is stupid!" is perfectly sound reasoning to a kid. An adult might know why it's, uh, kind of a bad idea to try and fight criminals when you're literally just 10 years old, but a child may not.

 

As for Corey... I feel sad about him, yeah. He got dealt a shitty hand, and he tried to raise his daughter in the way he thought was best for her. He didn't actually do it right, though. Don't ask me what he should've done, I don't have kids and "I have no idea how to raise one" is one of the reasons I don't want any, but he definitely didn't do it right.

 

I wouldn't call Heather a hypocrite though. Yeah, sure, "People who try to stop the evil team are dumb!" may be said by an evil team member, but it's not the point of them. They've got a goal ("Acquire more money" or "Make the oceans/landmass bigger" or "I want everyone in Reborn City to leave") that will hurt people, and sure, it's obvious people might try to stop them, but it's futile because they're stronger and have a big amount of members.

Heather wants to save people and doesn't get why people would not want a 10 year old kid to go catch the bad guys.

I'm pretty sure members of evil teams have said lots of things I've said, too, but that hopefully doesn't make me a hypocrite when I'm against them.

Yeah see that's what i was trying to say about Corey. And yeah true true about Heather I just thought that one line was a bit off putting that's all

 

Honestly I think people mistook his motives and are only seeing the bad things about him

 

Which is why the full story behind him would be amazing to have, but nobody has the full story, so it sucks.

 

The entire line between the 3 characters is so good that it's my favorite story of any so far in the game.

 

By the way I hope I didn't upset anyone with this post if I did I'm sorry I'm not trying to start arguments or anything honestly

 

[Aphelli]

33 minutes ago, wcv said:

Also doesn't help that Heather is easily the most powerful trainer there at that point in the story, and the fact she didn't stomp Corey flat then immediately do the same to Taka and ZEL is kinda heascratchy.

Yeah, it becomes really not-obvious when you have to write this part. But I’ve got a consistent (if maybe far-fetched) explanation / theory: 
 

(at least, I don’t remember any canon fact that invalidates any of it)

 

Actually, at this point, Heather is relatively pretty bad. She barely had a Pokemon ever. The Salamence, as well as the rest of her E4 team, is her mother’s, an actual, accomplished E4 member. (Thus explaining why a certain somebody thought Corey suitable for Ruby Ring safekeeping.)

 

In Reborn-verse, we already know that Pokemon power trumps trainer talent (else, it’s pretty strange how Sigmund’s patients got E4 ranks while in there — and that explains also why 3 E4 members out of four are below 20-ish). So Heather simply “inherited” her mother’s unbelievably strong and experienced Pokemon. 
 

On the other hand, against Corey, she only has a single Salamence out there, who has barely battled since Elena’s death, so the dragon is rather out of it. Furthermore, Heather is riding the Salamence, seriously restricting its moves. Moreover, she’s using it against Corey, who probably saw it in battle many times and knows exactly what not to do. Finally, Heather (through Salamence) has to protect herself against a Crobat attack, so the Salamence can’t attack too recklessly. 
 

 

TL;DR: Heather attacks riding her Pokemon, hampering its mobility and power, making herself vulnerable, against an enemy that (unbeknownst to her) knows the Salamence better than she does. 
 

 

Edit: I realize (after reading Lua’s comment in another topic) that the argument isn’t significantly weakened if you assume that Heather has been training the Salamence regularly. Still, I think it would be in character for Corey to keep Elena’s Pokemon away from her and if she only got them very recently. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Mindlack

[Johnny_Nevori]

17 minutes ago, Mindlack said:

Yeah, it becomes a real pain when you have to write this part. But I’ve got a consistent (if maybe far-fetched) explanation / theory: 
 

(at least, I don’t remember any canon fact that invalidates any of it)

 

Actually, at this point, Heather is relatively pretty bad. She barely had a Pokemon ever. The Salamence, as well as the rest of her E4 team, is her mother’s, an actual, accomplished E4 member. (Thus explaining why a certain somebody thought Corey suitable for Ruby Ring safekeeping.)

 

In Reborn-verse, we already know that Pokemon power trumps trainer talent (else, it’s pretty strange how Sigmund’s patients got E4 ranks while in there — and that explains also why 3 E4 members out of four are below 20-ish). So Heather simply “inherited” her mother’s unbelievably strong and experienced Pokemon. 
 

On the other hand, against Corey, she only has a single Salamence out there, who has barely battled since Elena’s death, so the dragon is rather out of it. Furthermore, Heather is riding the Salamence, seriously restricting its moves. Moreover, she’s using it against Corey, who probably saw it in battle many times and knows exactly what not to do. Finally, Heather (through Salamence) has to protect herself against a Crobat attack, so the Salamence can’t attack too recklessly. 
 

 

TL;DR: Heather attacks riding her Pokemon, hampering its mobility and power, making herself vulnerable, against an enemy that (unbeknownst to her) knows the Salamence better than she does. 

this plus not to mention he just walks away from her because he loves her too much to actually fight her and the only reason he pretend to be taking her on was so she didn't get hurt by the real evil team as well not to blow his cover.

 

this is why i actually believe there's two versions of that scene

Edited March 1, 2020 by Johnny_Nevori