Togekiss Suggestions

[Gham]

Hello all,

 

So I have a Togekiss I've IV and EV trained to be an all out offensive mon with

252 in Special attack and speed with a timid nature. 

The move pool is : Nasty Plot, Air Slash, dazzling Beam, and thunder wave.

 

My stuggle is this: Since I have nasty plot part of me wants to just dumb 252 Evs in HP but

another part of me knows that this aint competitive and sometimes you don't have time to
have a pokemon that needs to set up before tis useful (also god forbit a mon has rock slide)

 

What set do you recommend and any team member that could make her better?

 

[Seel The Deal]

Really there's nothing wrong with max speed Togekiss, keep in mind it has a massive base 120 special attack and will absolutely tear things apart even before Nasty Plot, and that its natural bulk will let it live weaker SE hits and strong neutral ones more often than not. I wouldn't recommend Thunder Wave with max speed though, better to go with Aura Sphere or Flamethrower as coverage to hit Steel types, as Thunder Wave's main use is for bulkier setups to outspeed for flinch hax.

 

I will say though, max HP has a lot of merit as a Wish user, with a set like Wish/Thunder Wave/Air Slash/Protect, Roost, Flamethrower, etc. I don't recommend dual STAB for a defensive set, as then you either give up utility or coverage against Steel types. Your choice at that point to invest in defense or special attack for the other 252 EVs (wouldn't recommend special defense myself, it's pretty overkill).

 

Offensive Togekiss goes really well with a Sticky Web user like Galvantula and appreciates teammates that deal with Electric and Poison types like Excadrill (who ALSO happens to be almost as good with webs as it is with sand) or Nidoking. A core like that would be able to cover most of your team's offensive needs, with a few rare exceptions like Gliscor. Alternatively, a Tailwind setter can give it the speed it needs against faster teams, but most Tailwind users share its Flying type so you have to be wary about what partners you choose. Defensive Togekiss prefers partners that have good type synergy, so something that's bulky, benefits greatly from Wish support and a Fighting resist, and resists Steel, Ice or Electric, and Rock is ideal - something like Steelix or Mega Aggron would be good.

[Gham]

4 hours ago, Seel The Deal said:

Really there's nothing wrong with max speed Togekiss, keep in mind it has a massive base 120 special attack and will absolutely tear things apart even before Nasty Plot, and that its natural bulk will let it live weaker SE hits and strong neutral ones more often than not. I wouldn't recommend Thunder Wave with max speed though, better to go with Aura Sphere or Flamethrower as coverage to hit Steel types, as Thunder Wave's main use is for bulkier setups to outspeed for flinch hax.

 

I will say though, max HP has a lot of merit as a Wish user, with a set like Wish/Thunder Wave/Air Slash/Protect, Roost, Flamethrower, etc. I don't recommend dual STAB for a defensive set, as then you either give up utility or coverage against Steel types. Your choice at that point to invest in defense or special attack for the other 252 EVs (wouldn't recommend special defense myself, it's pretty overkill).

 

Offensive Togekiss goes really well with a Sticky Web user like Galvantula and appreciates teammates that deal with Electric and Poison types like Excadrill (who ALSO happens to be almost as good with webs as it is with sand) or Nidoking. A core like that would be able to cover most of your team's offensive needs, with a few rare exceptions like Gliscor. Alternatively, a Tailwind setter can give it the speed it needs against faster teams, but most Tailwind users share its Flying type so you have to be wary about what partners you choose. Defensive Togekiss prefers partners that have good type synergy, so something that's bulky, benefits greatly from Wish support and a Fighting resist, and resists Steel, Ice or Electric, and Rock is ideal - something like Steelix or Mega Aggron would be good.

Appretiate the input. Obviously it all comes down to arbitrary preference and who my other mons are but again thanks. There is still a part of my youth attached to me from the early days of emerald that has no patience for setting up and likes to keep a balance of bulky mons and sweepers to use blunt force to solve problems... so ill probably keep the EVs where they are. That said, if I did want to put Evs in Speed and HP, relying on a Healbell/Thunder wave/ aire slash/roost combo, what do you think of a mon like Whimsicott for prankster tailwind? My supports already include Swampert and Excadrill BTW so I agree with you there.

[Seel The Deal]

53 minutes ago, Gham said:

what do you think of a mon like Whimsicott for prankster tailwind? My supports already include Swampert and Excadrill BTW so I agree with you there.

Well, what does Whimsicott do besides set Tailwind? It doesn't get Rain Dance or Sandstorm (for Swampert/Excadrill respectively), it doesn't get Taunt, its only offensive niche is the highly unreliable Prankster Nature Power, so... Light Screen + Charm? Memento, if you want that in one slot? If you run a hyper offense that could work, but Togekiss is generally outclassed by faster Flying types that can abuse stronger moves without setup like Brave Bird and Hurricane on those archetypes. You could run Sunny Day on Whimsicott, but then you'd have to wonder why you're spending two slots on Togekiss and Whimsicott on a sun team that already gets to abuse huge threats like mixed Growth Venusaur, Charizard, and Mega Houndoom.

 

I'd recommend Scizor (benefits from Tailwind itself immensely, replacing strong priority with doubled speed; resists Ice and Poison and smashes Rock types) or Gliscor (it's another Flying type BUT, it only shares the Ice weakness, it's very effective against Rock, Electric, Steel AND Poison, it's one of the bulkiest 'mons you can get your hands on, and gets Swords Dance naturally for a double dance set; unfortunately it has to rely on Bulldoze and Aerial Ace/Sky Attack for dual STAB (or Acrobatics, if you're willing to forgo the insane survivability boost from Toxic Orb and use a Flying Gem instead)).

 

It's worth nothing, though, that Togekiss can totally run Tailwind on its own. It wouldn't work for a pure support set with Heal Bell, but Nasty Plot sets could pull it off with an attack combo of Air Slash and Aura Sphere, and support sets not running Heal Bell and Thunder Wave can make great use of it. (That being said, I don't think Heal Bell is any good outside of competitive play; when the name of the game is balanced offense you don't see too much crippling status flying around - mostly just 10% burn/para chances from stuff that kills in 2-3 hits anyway.)

[jbastian1]

I personally have always enjoyed running a Serene Grace Togekiss with

Air Slash

Dazzling Gleam

Heat Wave/Ancient Power

Wish/Morning Sun

 

[Gastronely]

On 3/5/2020 at 3:49 PM, jbastian1 said:

I personally have always enjoyed running a Serene Grace Togekiss with

Air Slash

Dazzling Gleam

Heat Wave/Ancient Power

Wish/Morning Sun

 

Wouldn't it be better with Roost? Considering Togekiss isn't really a wish passer, and morning sun recovery is limited (even though it doesn't removes it's ground immunity)

[jbastian1]

On 3/8/2020 at 12:43 AM, Gastronely said:

Wouldn't it be better with Roost? Considering Togekiss isn't really a wish passer, and morning sun recovery is limited (even though it doesn't removes it's ground immunity)

As far as I am aware, it can only learn Roost by TM and I think that is only available at the Desert but I don't recall where so I always just run that build as it works relatively the same. Plus, I typically have a sun setter on my team I guess.

[Gastronely]

1 hour ago, jbastian1 said:

As far as I am aware, it can only learn Roost by TM and I think that is only available at the Desert but I don't recall where so I always just run that build as it works relatively the same. Plus, I typically have a sun setter on my team I guess.

Oh, i see