The Reserved and the Elite

[Lucifer Morningstar]

I've been watching Shofu among other YTbers and just a bit ago as he's progressing through the orphanage siege, some thoughts occurred to me. 

 

Was Victoria right? Did we need to battle Shelly?

Considering how traumatized she was by Corey's suicide I'm suddenly wondering, for something so serious couldn't the reserve gym leader have temporarily stood in for her while she took a hiatus to recover without denying challengers?

Obviously, Shelly would have rejected the suggestion and Victoria would still end up having to battle the player as an attempted block but considering her almost maternal concern for Shelly, I'm a bit surprised that she didn't at least consider putting it out there. 

 

Who is the reserve bug gym leader? Was it that spoiled, selfish, creeper Bennett before El cheated him on to the Elite 4? No, couldn't be. His original goal was to become a gym leader before El showed up with the better offer. 
It's a bit of a shame. A borderline sociopathic gym leader would have been fantastically unique though we do have Fern who could be a psychopathic reserve gym leader. As is a corrupt Elite 4 even if it does taint the champion title a bit to defeat at least one phony. 
 

Considering what happened with Laura and Bennett I wouldn't be surprised if more members of the Elite 4 were cheated into their places behind poor Ame's back.
Though I don't understand how Laura's hand writing in her supposed resignation letter was forged so flawlessly that it wouldn't show up anything out of place in a comparison. Certainly Ame wouldn't be so careless as to not do or order a handwriting analysis check. 
Convenient too that Ame was killed just after this and made out to have resigned as Champion. Are the Meteors and the Arceus Church/Cult working together? They seem to have a similar goal to wipe out Reborn and rebirth it "cleansed". 

 

I feel so bad for Laura, she was so upset to lose her place in the Elite 4, I hope she's able to regain it. 
Considering the gyms, I'm a bit scared of the Elite 4 regardless of who they are. 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Devilish

[Duskfang Shadowpaw]

42 minutes ago, Devilish said:

I've been watching Shofu among other YTbers and just a bit ago as he's progressing through the orphanage siege, some thoughts occurred to me. 

 

Was Victoria right? Did we need to battle Shelly?

Considering how traumatized she was by Corey's suicide I'm suddenly wondering, for something so serious couldn't the reserve gym leader have temporarily stood in for her while she took a hiatus to recover without denying challengers?

Obviously, Shelly would have rejected the suggestion and Victoria would still end up having to battle the player as an attempted block but considering her almost maternal concern for Shelly, I'm a bit surprised that she didn't at least consider putting it out there. 

As far as I remember it is Shelly who wanted to fight Victoria first, but she wanted to wait till everything is sorted out, so Shelly goes to fight us instead.

Why should Shelly be shaken up by something that doesn't affect her at all. Coming over that loss is a big part in Heather's character development, namely becoming a better person, since I believe it hadn't come this far if she hadn't marginalized everyone who cared for her. (Corey, Cain, Shelly and Player)

As of the reason why Victoria blocks us, I presume it was her mother instinct kicking in, nothing more.

 

42 minutes ago, Devilish said:

 

Who is the reserve bug gym leader? Was it that spoiled, selfish, creeper Bennett before El cheated him on to the Elite 4? No, couldn't be. His original goal was to become a gym leader before El showed up with the better offer. 
It's a bit of a shame. A borderline sociopathic gym leader would have been fantastically unique though we do have Fern who could be a psychopathic reserve gym leader. As is a corrupt Elite 4 even if it does taint the champion title a bit to defeat at least one phony. 

We never learn which character the reserve Bug Type Gym Leader is, as of Episode 18 we only have met 5 Reserve Gym Leaders so far.

 

42 minutes ago, Devilish said:

Considering what happened with Laura and Bennett I wouldn't be surprised if more members of the Elite 4 were cheated into their places behind poor Ame's back.
Though I don't understand how Laura's hand writing in her supposed resignation letter was forged so flawlessly that it wouldn't show up anything out of place in a comparison. Certainly Ame wouldn't be so careless as to not do or order a handwriting analysis check. 
Convenient too that Ame was killed just after this and made out to have resigned as Champion. Are the Meteors and the Arceus Church/Cult working together? They seem to have a similar goal to wipe out Reborn and rebirth it "cleansed". 

 

As far as I have understood the whole scenario is that Elias has forged a resignation letter on a Computer or something similar. After that they apprehended Laura when she left Calcenon for some reason or another to force her to sign that letter or that she writes the whole thing herself with the help of....

 

Spoiler

...Pulse Hypno which they then send to Ame. But I take no guarantee over my previous statement, unless it's canonized by the game itself, which I highly doubt.

 

 

Yes, Team Meteor and the Arceus Cult are working together since it was the calling of the Hazel Family to serve the Alcantara Family over generations...of course one wonders if this partnership will continue since Solaris looses all control over Team Meteor at the end of Episode 18 which gives Elias no reason to continue that, unless he get's possessed that is...but who knows?!

 

 

42 minutes ago, Devilish said:

 

I feel so bad for Laura, she was so upset to lose her place in the Elite 4, I hope she's able to regain it. 
Considering the gyms, I'm a bit scared of the Elite 4 regardless of who they are. 

 

You will see, if Laura get's her Position back or not. As for Reborn's Elite Four...over the course of the Game we already meet 3 confirmed Members of the League.

 

 

 

 

[Aphelli]

Elias is a servant of Solaris, and was assisted by Meteor grunts when kidnapping Luna. It seems a reasonable step to assume some sort of porosity between the organizations. What is unknown is how Elias is sensitive to the Lin faction. 

(Maybe we'll see in E19 that El was actually a mole all along)

 

Reborn has some sort of technology, so the letter could be typewritten, and Laura's signature be forged by any technique (eg have a random guy ask an autograph on paper that is actually the cleverly folded resignation letter). E18 plot hints at a better explanation, though. 

 

Spoiler

Someone called Laura claiming themselves as a Reborn League official, to transmit her a completely bogus firing decision (only way to explain the phone call in Charlotte's Gym, way before Ame gets that letter) that is said to be Ame's. Laura flees, gets under the control of PULSE Hypno, and she writes her resignation letter under said control -- so it's not forged in any way, it's authentic, except that the intention dictating is isn't hers. 

   

Also, I don't expect anyone in the E4 to be a phony -- they wrongly fired someone to get the job, maybe, but they're all going to be good (and yes, I'm scared too because I'm very bad). 

 

I do agree with you about Shelly and Victoria -- the latter could even get the battle delayed by simply asking us to notify Ame of Corey's death before Shelly did.  

 

 

1 minute ago, Duskfang Shadowpaw said:

Why should Shelly be shaken up by something that doesn't affect her at all.

Because you don't want to see pictures of a corpse that fell at least 100 meters. Even less when they're the father of a "friend", and said "friend" is all alone and doesn't show up. Even less when you're an already traumatized 12-year-old with serious family issues. 

[Gastronely]

3 minutes ago, Duskfang Shadowpaw said:

As far as I remember it is Shelly who wanted to fight Victoria first, but she wanted to wait till everything is sorted out, so Shelly goes to fight us instead.

Why should Shelly be shaken up by something that doesn't affect her at all. Coming over that loss is a big part in Heather's character development, namely becoming a better person, since I believe it hadn't come this far if she hadn't marginalized everyone who cared for her. (Corey, Cain, Shelly and Player)

As of the reason why Victoria blocks us, I presume it was her mother instinct kicking in, nothing more.

 

We never learn which character the reserve Bug Type Gym Leader is, as of Episode 18 we only have met 5 Reserve Gym Leaders so far.

 

 

As far as I have understood the whole scenario is that Elias has forged a resignation letter on a Computer or something similar. After that they apprehended Laura when she left Calcenon for some reason or another to force her to sign that letter or that she writes the whole thing herself with the help of....

 

  Reveal hidden contents

...Pulse Hypno which they then send to Ame. But I take no guarantee over my previous statement, unless it's canonized by the game itself, which I highly doubt.

 

 

Yes, Team Meteor and the Arceus Cult are working together since it was the calling of the Hazel Family to serve the Alcantara Family over generations...of course one wonders if this partnership will continue since Solaris looses all control over Team Meteor at the end of Episode 18 which gives Elias no reason to continue that, unless he get's possessed that is...but who knows?!

 

 

 

You will see, if Laura get's her Position back or not. As for Reborn's Elite Four...over the course of the Game we already meet 3 confirmed Members of the League.

 

 

 

 

Anna is pretty much confirmed to be an Elite 4 member, even if the game doesn't tell us

[Aphelli]

6 minutes ago, Gastronely said:

Anna is pretty much confirmed to be an Elite 4 member, even if the game doesn't tell us

That's clearly a red herring. Nostra is the E4 member, and Anna is simply the illusion Nostra's real Jirachi creates for itself. 

[Gastronely]

7 minutes ago, Mindlack said:

That's clearly a red herring. Nostra is the E4 member, and Anna is simply the illusion Nostra's real Jirachi creates for itself.

Well, this timeline is basically just Nostra's wish, so, yeah, everything is an illusion

Edited April 11, 2020 by Gastronely

[Lucifer Morningstar]

4 hours ago, Duskfang Shadowpaw said:

Why should Shelly be shaken up by something that doesn't affect her at all.

Because she's a 12-year-old child who witnessed a suicide regardless of who it is and as it happens, it wasn't just someone random, it was her best friend's father so she had that to be concerned about as well after we deliver that message from Anna. 
She undoubtedly was traumatized as we see her break down and cry multiple times. 

 

4 hours ago, Duskfang Shadowpaw said:

As far as I have understood the whole scenario is that Elias has forged a resignation letter on a Computer or something similar. After that they apprehended Laura when she left Calcenon for some reason or another to force her to sign that letter or that she writes the whole thing herself with the help of....

That doesn't add up. We see her upset about losing her spot in the Belrose family gym in Calcenon, that's when she runs off. This suggests that two different stories were told to both Laura and Ame, Laura that she was fired and Ame that Laura had resigned. That's how I understood it anyway.

 

4 hours ago, Mindlack said:

Also, I don't expect anyone in the E4 to be a phony -- they wrongly fired someone to get the job, maybe, but they're all going to be good (and yes, I'm scared too because I'm very bad). 

That's a valid point. Although I never understood how bugs could be good enough for the Elite 4, Shelly and Bennett are the first bug type trainers in any class and in any game who have truly given them strength. 
I remember fighting the Bug elite 4 member in Pearl being a huge joke because I swept them with my Infernape alone. 

 

4 hours ago, Mindlack said:

I do agree with you about Shelly and Victoria -- the latter could even get the battle delayed by simply asking us to notify Ame of Corey's death before Shelly did.  

Yes! It is quite strange that Victoria didn't think to report Corey's suicide to Ame right away while it was pretty much the first thing she did after Kiki's death. 

Sending us to do it certainly would have been the easiest way to delay our battle with Shelly (and would have saved us from having to deal with Fern). Much easier and gentler than battling us herself to wear us down. 
I suppose it can be attributed to a mother bear instinct though can that logic be applied to Kiki as well as she is not a child? 

[Edo]

6 hours ago, Devilish said:

Though I don't understand how Laura's hand writing in her supposed resignation letter was forged so flawlessly that it wouldn't show up anything out of place in a comparison. Certainly Ame wouldn't be so careless as to not do or order a handwriting analysis check. 

I think Bennett explains in the Glass Workstation to Laura how they kidnapped and hypnotized her so she'd write the resignation herself, hence why she doesn't remember any of it.

[Duskfang Shadowpaw]

10 hours ago, Devilish said:

Because she's a 12-year-old child who witnessed a suicide regardless of who it is and as it happens, it wasn't just someone random, it was her best friend's father so she had that to be concerned about as well after we deliver that message from Anna. 
She undoubtedly was traumatized as we see her break down and cry multiple times. 

 

 

I totally agree with the statement that every 12-year old girl would break down or be near the brink of it if they witnessed a scenario like this. But after Shelly has calmed down she even tells us that she has no time to be shaken up by something that was beyond her control, she even wanted to be there for Heather during that dark time and how does Heather thank her?

She questions her benevolence by scolding her because she was going to agree with Cain, that is not how you treat people who try to be there for you, friend or acquaintance alike.

After we rescued her from Sigmund and left the Railnet in the Chrysolia Region (Heather hasn't spoken a single word during all of this), she simply takes off on her Salamence...of course someone could interpret this as her regular behavior, but I think that Heather has begun to understand that her general behavior was the source of all this.

A long time later after we pulled her out of Blake's Shed where she was ranting about "stupid" Blake and "stupid" Dad, but ultimately comes to the conclusion that it was all her fault.

Would she have listened to her Dad why he kept so strict rules on her and has joined Team Meteor and not just badmouthed him for (in her eyes) stupid rules, she would've understand that he did all that to keep her safe

As for Blake, I think she simply was so deluded by her own needs to find someone who "shared" her own mindset and took her in with the adamant belief that people with "don't care about rules" mentalities are always good persons.

Of course I don't wanna give Heather or Shelly the Jackass Card in a Place like Reborn City, such a criminal infested city is simply no place for young girls at all.