Theory Crafting Thread

[enderowl]

Hello Rejuvenators.

I am making this thread for those who want to put down their own theories on what is going to happen in V13, characters, and etc.  I also made this thread just to have the actual discussion thread to stay on-topic.  So, go ham on any theories you have whether it be long or short, to the point or complicated, logical or insane, or it is just straight up a meme theory.  I do have a few rules for this thread, but it isn't going to limit any theories or discussions on those theories.

Rule 1: Don't make fun of anyone's theories.

Rule 2: Have Fun

With all of that out of the way.  Let the theorizing begin.

 

Also, quick note:

BEWARE OF SPOILERS.

[Magus543]

I thank you for your thread.

 

So i'd like to start, any guesses on how our encounter with Lorna will play out? Nim was like one of my favorites when i started this game, and to see her turned into a pawn of Crescent is just sad, and enraging. I'm also intrigued by what Damian says about her ending the world if she continues to live. My guess is that she won't be snapped out of her trance and stay as like an anti-villain trying to fulfill the prohecy of darkness or something. I also am placing a bet that Crescent's role will finally be revealed in this update. 

 

 

I also think this update, we are going to formally fight Ren again as a rival, as Nastasia noted, our cooperation has ended, and next we meet, we would most likely fight each other again. 

[Edo]

Thanks, the Status thread kept getting swamped with so many theories and other irrelevant topics to the point where you might overlook the actually important stuff.

 

What I'd like to address are the already existing theories about Freya's identity. While there were several ideas, with Risa being the most popular because of her Tuffpuff's similarities to Naganadel, I think that's not possible. Because when we find Saki in Aquamarine Cave after she got catapulted off the ship, she mentions that a red haired girl found her and brought her to the cave, then left. A little while later she returned in a different outfit and saved her from a blue whale (Kyogre), and Saki said her name was something like Frie.., Fried.. (well, Freya obviously).

What I'm trying to say is that Saki saw her in two different outfits; she saw her wearing different clothes than her usual uniform, so she very likely saw her face. If she were Risa then Saki would've recognized her.

 

I remember someone on the Status thread saying that Freya could be Risa without anyone recognizing her because Beheeyem's illusions change her looks, like her hair color. But this seems farfetched because it sounds too tedious to keep up all the time, and we know that she creates illusions by meddling with the target's brain. If someone approaches her unnoticed they would see her true appearance, so that doesn't make much sense.

 

So I believe that Freya is simply Freya, not someone we know in disguise.

[Delta3416]

OK, this isn't a fully formed theory but... is Nim actually a demon?

 

I remember this based on what Damien said about Nim being a multi-dimensional abomination who takes this form. But the question is, can we actually believe him? I mean, I seriously thought Nim was on our side and the next thing we know she's turning people into stone left and right. Is this because of Crescent's influence? What's her genuine role? The problem is how many different sides there are in this conflict.

[Tikkit]

Well, I think Damien is probably exaggerating, or flat out wrong. Since his only words on the matter is that Nim bad and Nim cause the end times, and nothing specific, he probably read something about some entity being able to do the things he's scared of Nim doing. In fact, Nim probably just happened to fit a few of the criteria to be labeled as this entity, despite not being it. I doubt she's actually capable of ending the world, when she struggled to keep three people trapped, and it took a bunch of energy out of her just to teleport two people. 

 

I'd like to be able to throw Crescent into the fires of Mount Valor, but realistically she's going to get away with all the wrongs she's done or do something that "Redeems" herself, which will probably just be a slap on the wrist to her.

[Magus543]

Crescent to me has a complicated yet interesting dynamic with us. She's a terrible person and has done terrible things, yet has us as her top priority person. She cares for us yet tortures our friends (though she has warned against associating with them.)  AND our enemies, like Jenner getting us involved in fighting with Xen, pissed her off and she sent him to the psychic dimension and utterly torturing Geara by tossing him into the teleportation chamber which was most likely motivated by him tossing us into the lava. All she wants to see is our smile yet commits horrific crimes. 

 

As for her ultimate fate, i think she will face a form of punishment, my personal guess is that if she is our real mother, we will have the option to reject her for what she did throughout to story like to Nim and Ren among others and claim that Nancy the so-called doll who she berated was more of a mother than she was. 

 

 

Though i'm sure she's had some karma in the form of what Surfer girl did to her.   

[Tikkit]

I mean, if she's trying to protect us, going after our friends is the last thing she should be doing. She knows full well that we'll put our life on the line for them, but she puts them into situations where we need to save them from her vile machinations. She knows that her warnings go in one ear and out the other, yet will probably say I told you so if we confront her. She's either too late in intervening, like at the Caratos Mountain lab, or she does too little like with Valor Mountain.

[Crimson_Mc_Black]

Okay so when we travel back to hyoshi city, we learn that the Arceus we know today is only one out of three parts of a whole. this (lets call this Whole Form) was even more powerful than the one we know today. I leave out god-like because it ended up splitting up in the first place (with one part dead and another gravely injured) because it got t-boned by a meteor. this part bothers me, what kind of creature that powerful (Assuming that Whole Forms Base stat total is 3*720=2,160) loses to a hunk of rock from space.

theory time

 

So if 1 meteor could force Whole Form to split, kill one part, and injure another, this leads me to believe that,

1) This space rock was most likely not just a space rock. We know that there are pokemon in space, thanks to Deoxys, Minior, and/or Jirachi, so mabye this meteor was either a pokemon itself or it housed a pokemon inside, either way it was powerful enough to force Whole Form to split, which makes a bit more sense than just a rock besting Whole Form.

 

or

 

2) Vitus pulled a Sephiroth on Whole Form.

 

This leads to another theory of mine, we might end up fighting Whole Form eventually. Im thinking either Vitus uses the Archtype to bring Whole Form back, or Team Xen uses Rift matter to "evolve" Arceus into something similar to Whole Form

edit: also seing how Arceus learns revover by level up, we can assume that the one part that was injured is probably still alive somewhere

Edit 2: IF there are 2 areceus and 1 Silvally (An arceus wannabe) Maybe we can fuse those three together to make an Ultimate pokemon or something

Edited April 28, 2020 by Crimson_Mc_Black

[Kwstas]

Just some random thoughts. I remember back when Nim turned to stone saying I'm sorry this isn't me or something like that, and that makes me wonder what did she mean by that, what if Nim is being possessed by something? I hope we can find out about this.

 

Another thing I'm looking forward too is the whole archetype thing that was created when Melia, Erin, Alice, and Allen interacted. This will sound cringe I guess but anywayyy I believe that Maria/Marianette is actually all these 4 characters merged into one. The reason I believe that is when we go to hiyoshi city and we go in the hospital, we see a report of anathea having 4 kids but when we went to the past it seemed like Anathea's only kid was Maria, so what if actually Indriad "split" Maria into 4 other kids? 

 

That's what I had and I'm sorry for bad English/grammar haha

[Kikss]

14 minutes ago, Kwstas said:

Just some random thoughts. I remember back when Nim turned to stone saying I'm sorry this isn't me or something like that, and that makes me wonder what did she mean by that, what if Nim is being possessed by something? I hope we can find out about this.

 

Another thing I'm looking forward too is the whole archetype thing that was created when Melia, Erin, Alice, and Allen interacted. This will sound cringe I guess but anywayyy I believe that Maria/Marianette is actually all these 4 characters merged into one. The reason I believe that is when we go to hiyoshi city and we go in the hospital, we see a report of anathea having 4 kids but when we went to the past it seemed like Anathea's only kid was Maria, so what if actually Indriad "split" Maria into 4 other kids? 

 

That's what I had and I'm sorry for bad English/grammar haha

Nice, i thought i was the only one with that theory, i also think Maria was the 'original child' but was somehow split into 4 beings, Melia obviosly being the strongest of them, bec of that he banned the others (alice, alan,erin)  in the unown world to have them as a backup, eventually if sth happens to Melia.

 

Still not sure which is the part of marianette in this whole story, maybe she is the older/future version of maria which was not split into 4. So maybe again some trick from spacea and tiepma, putting the mansion from another Dimension in our present, let us get the badge and then let them disappear again? Idk what do you think?

[Kwstas]

2 hours ago, Kikss said:

Nice, i thought i was the only one with that theory, i also think Maria was the 'original child' but was somehow split into 4 beings, Melia obviosly being the strongest of them, bec of that he banned the others (alice, alan,erin)  in the unown world to have them as a backup, eventually if sth happens to Melia.

 

Still not sure which is the part of marianette in this whole story, maybe she is the older/future version of maria which was not split into 4. So maybe again some trick from spacea and tiepma, putting the mansion from another Dimension in our present, let us get the badge and then let them disappear again? Idk what do you think?

Based on what we saw at the mansion I think Marianette is the brainwashed version of Maria by Indriad. Also, I think I agree with you being her future version since she said she won't forget you again kr something like that 

[Bluedude]

Who do you guys think will be the finale villain of the game? 
Madame X

Freya and Kieran

Spacia and Timepia 

Or Vitus who is currently Angie right now.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Bluedude

[Tikkit]

Team-Anti Assist.

[Magus543]

Melia. 

 

Think about it. 

[Aphelli]

Did I miss something, or is everyone completely forgetting about whoever is behind

Spoiler

Robot Amanda? She named the plan she opposed as Celine's, "of course"... And said the plan started to go into motion shortly before the MC returned to Aevium. With "gaining control" as the end goal.

 

 

Melia being the antagonist is really a funny idea though.

[Magus543]

It's kind of a half joke really, because i'm placing bets that since the Interceptor is able to judge to world and either bring ruin or paradise according to the prophecy, and given that a low value Melia will say she doesn't trust us to Erin in the same scene, i think there will be a branching path that makes us the villain protagonist, and Melia will be the last one standing against us. Kinda like the Demon path from Soul eater.  But if she somehow ends up the final villain, i will say she's the greatest fanfic character ever. I have a soft spot for start of darkness type stories, and Maria was pretty ominous last time we saw her. 

 

 

As for robo Amanda, i'm still scratching my head at this part. Nor do i have any guess as to who Celine is or if she's against us or not. 

[Aphelli]

2 hours ago, Magus543 said:

As for robo Amanda, i'm still scratching my head at this part. Nor do i have any guess as to who Celine is or if she's against us or not. 

(Spoiler for the end of the hidden library sidequest)

Spoiler

Celine is the person Karen swears by. Celine has a prominent place in Karen's diary in Alamissa Urben -- she's had a great influence on Alexandra, Adam, Damian and "Eve", all of whom Karen knows very well.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Mindlack
spelling fixes

[Magus543]

5 minutes ago, Mindlack said:

(Spoiler for the end of the hidden library sidequest)

  Hide contents

Celine is the person Karen swears by. Celine has a prominent place in Karen's diary in Alamissa Urben -- she's had a great influence Alexandra, Adam, Damian and "Eve", whom Karen knows very well.

I heard from another forum goer that Ryland is Eve. It seems that Ryland is transexual, FTM or something, and Eve was his original name. Not sure it's this is real or not.

[nhehvnukl]

2 hours ago, Magus543 said:

I heard from another forum goer that Ryland is Eve. It seems that Ryland is transexual, FTM or something, and Eve was his original name. Not sure it's this is real or not.

Jan confirmed this somewhere, I think

[Magus543]

Just now, nhehvnukl said:

Jan confirmed this somewhere, I think

Oh really? When? This is interesting character stuff actually.

[Mozano Kudusa]

Does the Team Xen naming scheme have any importance outside of WLL because I'm pretty sure that Madelis' 'Lis' comes from her sister Lisbeth and Geara's G(i think) from the name he used in the past (Gregory I believe).

Also Melanie mentioned that probably Madame X does not know that merging with the other self in an alternate timeline does not delete them and given that she has a Time Diamond and she has used it quite a bit, it could mean that she has a few alternate versions of herself inside her somewhere,

[nhehvnukl]

4 hours ago, Magus543 said:

Oh really? When? This is interesting character stuff actually.

Tumblr, I think? 

[Aphelli]

Ok, so I found a couple of very strange ideas instead of doing whataver I was supposed to do, so let me sketch them...

 

1) About Yveltal's Demise

Spoiler

So we find in a deserted Xen lab that diary, saying that someone need "a way to destroy Yveltal while also preventing the impending doom that is a result of its own demise", since "it sucks the life force from every living thing around it".

Well, so far, we are introduced to three very interesting elements:

1) there's been an awfully suspicious nuclear incident involving namesakes of Team Xen (in the past) (suspicious, like, ten deaths but somehow everyone left afterwards)

2) A woman, named Freya, is supposed to be found dead at that accident but, so far, she's roaming Aevium 50 years afterward.

3) Time-travel is a thing for many characters

 

How does this involve Yveltal? Well, imagine you've got this nasty legendary bird you want to kill for whichever reason. The thing is, it sucks the life energy of whatever is around him upon dying. So you put it in an environment where there's nothing but death energy around. Melt a nuclear power plant with Yvektal in the center, and there's no life energy around to draw from.

 

Another consequence of that, of course, is that in Freya's timeline, the Miera incident is the end. So she had to make a big time-travel to the past... Maybe with us? With Amthyst Grotto's power to protect the world because the plant was engineered to be as toxic as possible upon its destuction by Yveltal? 

 

Of course there's at least one other likely explanation: Freya faked her death.

 

I also wonder about the significance of her belonging to the International Police -- is it misinformation? Identity theft? Illusion? Is she a rogue agent? Or is she undercover all this time, playing the (very) long game? The last one would explain why she always says it's all business.

 

2) About Amanda

Spoiler

So remember, she's an awfully advanced robot whose goal is to reduce the League to insignificance, so that "when its creators decide to shine" nobody will be able to face them. That supposes a very long-term, planning-oriented view. Very underhanded. I can see two couples that could fit the bill:

 

(but before, just a question it might be worthwhile thinking about: did Amanda get updated instructions at any point?)

 

a. The Surfer Duo.

Technologically savvy? Yes. Underhanded and manipulative? Definitely. Remember how Kieran enables us to progress into Mount Valor? How he's freely given us some information about the Pyramid (toying a bit with us, also)? How he's involved in the trip to Hiyoshi City, and Nymeria played along with him instead of returning us to our timeline?

Remember that we only got serious interference from the Surfers when we were on assignments from Alexandra (and Kieran tried to lure and kill her)? Alexandra, who is the leading figure of Sashila Village, the people Celine apparently talked to, with such effect (I refer you to Karen's diary, although Celine could be more an Aevium figure than a Badlands figure only)? Celine, who is named as Amanda's adversary? In short, Amanda seems the adversary of the former leader of the Surfers' enemy. So... does that make Amanda and the Surfers allies?

 

 

b. The Puppet Masters. Of course, Amanda seems too... mundane for them (or maybe they're too eldritch for her), but how exactly was Amanda supposed to know Melia would get a ticket to the GCD ball? Because Amanda is a robot, it can't dream, thus get influenced by the PM. And they're also, as Zetta notes, "on another level" than Team Xen. Similar wording to Madelis... Also,  they're all for long-term and underhanded methods, remember how they guide and nudge the cast, only it never exactly appears as it is... how powerful is dream control (not immediately useful, sure, but potent enough if you have enough time to plot carefully).

 

 

 

We could get even further and infer that the Surfer Duo is the Puppet Masters (or conversely), but that seems pretty weak evidence. Besides, each of them seems powerful enough on their own, why pretend that there are two different entities?

 

I'm also thinking of option c. Some sort of payback from Spacea and Tiempa on Melia for her rebellion. Or because they want to take control of Aevium "for the greater good". (It sounds even weirder than the above though.)

 

Oh, and a third one about the Tournament because I really don't want to do whatever I'm supposed to:

Spoiler

We've been enrolled mysteriously into the Tournament and can't opt out. But that's weird, because they say that the policy is very strict; they require ID and an interview. So either someone very carefully impersonated all of the cast -- Huey, Melia, Venam, Erin, Aelita, us -- with official documents and all, or... we travelled back in time and registered ourselves then.

 

Why do I think the second option is plausible?

Because I can't see anyone who could and would pull off the first one. The Surfers can impersonate people but it's hard to see why they'd do it to Huey? Same for Cassandra or any Xen higher-up who could overrule the process (and there's no reason to involve and coerce us, apart maybe to somewhat control our whereabouts?). Comet & Cosmia could impersonate people but as far as we know they do not have official documents for all the cast, and they have no reason to involve Erin or Aelita. Bladestar has no reason (and little influence on the matter) to bring Melia or Aelita in, the Puppet Master (as far as we know) can't impersonate the cast on its own (I suppose they can let a bureaucrat have a very realistic dream where we register and act upon it "irl", but that's a bit far-fetched).

Still, I wonder if the Puppet Masters are involved in the glitch that remade the brackets (in order to let Erin attend the GDC Ball)...

 

There are impersonators at the tournament though -- Risa mentions that Aelita and Venam got impersonated, but "Venam" didn't act like Venam. Since Risa may be a major antagonist, there's no way to tell how genuine she is at that point, though, so time-travelling Venam/Aelita aren't excluded, but maybe slightly more unlikely.

 

[Magus543]

7 hours ago, Mindlack said:

Ok, so I found a couple of very strange ideas instead of doing whataver I was supposed to do, so let me sketch them...

 

1) About Yveltal's Demise

  Reveal hidden contents

So we find in a deserted Xen lab that diary, saying that someone need "a way to destroy Yveltal while also preventing the impending doom that is a result of its own demise", since "it sucks the life force from every living thing around it".

Well, so far, we are introduced to three very interesting elements:

1) there's been an awfully suspicious nuclear incident involving namesakes of Team Xen (in the past) (suspicious, like, ten deaths but somehow everyone left afterwards)

2) A woman, named Freya, is supposed to be found dead at that accident but, so far, she's roaming Aevium 50 years afterward.

3) Time-travel is a thing for many characters

 

How does this involve Yveltal? Well, imagine you've got this nasty legendary bird you want to kill for whichever reason. The thing is, it sucks the life energy of whatever is around him upon dying. So you put it in an environment where there's nothing but death energy around. Melt a nuclear power plant with Yvektal in the center, and there's no life energy around to draw from.

 

Another consequence of that, of course, is that in Freya's timeline, the Miera incident is the end. So she had to make a big time-travel to the past... Maybe with us? With Amthyst Grotto's power to protect the world because the plant was engineered to be as toxic as possible upon its destuction by Yveltal? 

 

Of course there's at least one other likely explanation: Freya faked her death.

 

I also wonder about the significance of her belonging to the International Police -- is it misinformation? Identity theft? Illusion? Is she a rogue agent? Or is she undercover all this time, playing the (very) long game? The last one would explain why she always says it's all business.

 

2) About Amanda

  Reveal hidden contents

So remember, she's an awfully advanced robot whose goal is to reduce the League to insignificance, so that "when its creators decide to shine" nobody will be able to face them. That supposes a very long-term, planning-oriented view. Very underhanded. I can see two couples that could fit the bill:

 

(but before, just a question it might be worthwhile thinking about: did Amanda get updated instructions at any point?)

 

a. The Surfer Duo.

Technologically savvy? Yes. Underhanded and manipulative? Definitely. Remember how Kieran enables us to progress into Mount Valor? How he's freely given us some information about the Pyramid (toying a bit with us, also)? How he's involved in the trip to Hiyoshi City, and Nymeria played along with him instead of returning us to our timeline?

Remember that we only got serious interference from the Surfers when we were on assignments from Alexandra (and Kieran tried to lure and kill her)? Alexandra, who is the leading figure of Sashila Village, the people Celine apparently talked to, with such effect (I refer you to Karen's diary, although Celine could be more an Aevium figure than a Badlands figure only)? Celine, who is named as Amanda's adversary? In short, Amanda seems the adversary of the former leader of the Surfers' enemy. So... does that make Amanda and the Surfers allies?

 

 

b. The Puppet Masters. Of course, Amanda seems too... mundane for them (or maybe they're too eldritch for her), but how exactly was Amanda supposed to know Melia would get a ticket to the GCD ball? Because Amanda is a robot, it can't dream, thus get influenced by the PM. And they're also, as Zetta notes, "on another level" than Team Xen. Similar wording to Madelis... Also,  they're all for long-term and underhanded methods, remember how they guide and nudge the cast, only it never exactly appears as it is... how powerful is dream control (not immediately useful, sure, but potent enough if you have enough time to plot carefully).

 

 

 

We could get even further and infer that the Surfer Duo is the Puppet Masters (or conversely), but that seems pretty weak evidence. Besides, each of them seems powerful enough on their own, why pretend that there are two different entities?

 

I'm also thinking of option c. Some sort of payback from Spacea and Tiempa on Melia for her rebellion. Or because they want to take control of Aevium "for the greater good". (It sounds even weirder than the above though.)

 

Oh, and a third one about the Tournament because I really don't want to do whatever I'm supposed to:

  Reveal hidden contents

We've been enrolled mysteriously into the Tournament and can't opt out. But that's weird, because they say that the policy is very strict; they require ID and an interview. So either someone very carefully impersonated all of the cast -- Huey, Melia, Venam, Erin, Aelita, us -- with official documents and all, or... we travelled back in time and registered ourselves then.

 

Why do I think the second option is plausible?

Because I can't see anyone who could and would pull off the first one. The Surfers can impersonate people but it's hard to see why they'd do it to Huey? Same for Cassandra or any Xen higher-up who could overrule the process (and there's no reason to involve and coerce us, apart maybe to somewhat control our whereabouts?). Comet & Cosmia could impersonate people but as far as we know they do not have official documents for all the cast, and they have no reason to involve Erin or Aelita. Bladestar has no reason (and little influence on the matter) to bring Melia or Aelita in, the Puppet Master (as far as we know) can't impersonate the cast on its own (I suppose they can let a bureaucrat have a very realistic dream where we register and act upon it "irl", but that's a bit far-fetched).

Still, I wonder if the Puppet Masters are involved in the glitch that remade the brackets (in order to let Erin attend the GDC Ball)...

 

There are impersonators at the tournament though -- Risa mentions that Aelita and Venam got impersonated, but "Venam" didn't act like Venam. Since Risa may be a major antagonist, there's no way to tell how genuine she is at that point, though, so time-travelling Venam/Aelita aren't excluded, but maybe slightly more unlikely.

 

I wish the best in doing whatever it is you don't want to do. It may suck, but i trust it's important.

 

 

As for Freya being in the international police, i think Crawli and the Looker quests will pay this off. I've been suspicious of both Looker and Anabel something feels off about them.

[Tikkit]

Really? Maybe it's because I've never actually seen their appearance in the main games, but I didn't really see too much off about Looker and Anabel. Anyway, it would be weird for us to go back in time to sign up for the tournament if we say we don't want to participate, and if we don't really have a reason to sign up for it. It seems especially odd to do something like that, when most time travel we've done does little but explain past events. Like some of Indriad's words in Chrysalis Manor, or the stuff with Aelita or Storm 9.