Theory Crafting Thread

[iiiiitamar]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:11 AM, Between Life and Death said:

Also, could Madame X be pure evil?

I don't think so because she doesn't do what she does just for fun she has a reason such as continuing her dad's work.

 

I'm guessing that, if anything, she will be obsession.

[Aphelli]

On 7/5/2020 at 4:10 AM, Between Life and Death said:

Madame X could have just saved us because if we failed, there would be no world left for her to take over.

Hm... In Kugearen, she knew the event was occurring. Why she didn’t simply arrange for someone else (not the person whose mother she slew before their own eyes – or, if she doesn’t know us, as indicated by the dialog, not complete strangers who meddle out of nowhere) to get the orb from the maid? Why bother to reset time for us (making us aware earlier than necessary of her power)? 

[Between Life and Death]

2 hours ago, Mindlack said:

Hm... In Kugearen, she knew the event was occurring. Why she didn’t simply arrange for someone else (not the person whose mother she slew before their own eyes – or, if she doesn’t know us, as indicated by the dialog, not complete strangers who meddle out of nowhere) to get the orb from the maid? Why bother to reset time for us (making us aware earlier than necessary of her power)? 

Because we're the interceptor. The dialogue between Melia and Erin implies that MC actually died in Kugearen, but due to their powers as the interceptor Madame X was able to save them and bring them back a few seconds.

[Aphelli]

7 hours ago, Between Life and Death said:

The dialogue between Melia and Erin implies that MC actually died in Kugearen, but due to their powers as the interceptor Madame X was able to save them and bring them back a few seconds.

I watched that scene a few weeks ago, and I don’t remember Kugearen being mentioned or alluded to... could you please be more specific? 

[TheHellHamster]

9 hours ago, Between Life and Death said:

Because we're the interceptor. The dialogue between Melia and Erin implies that MC actually died in Kugearen, but due to their powers as the interceptor Madame X was able to save them and bring them back a few seconds.

If Madame X was only able to save us because we're the Interceptor then shouldn't she have also figured out that we are the Interceptor then instead of during the bad future?

[Between Life and Death]

3 hours ago, TheHellHamster said:

If Madame X was only able to save us because we're the Interceptor then shouldn't she have also figured out that we are the Interceptor then instead of during the bad future?

She knew there was something off about MC. Plus they were the only person who survived the explosion of Kugearen, and so it made sense to send them back.

[Between Life and Death]

13 hours ago, Mindlack said:

I watched that scene a few weeks ago, and I don’t remember Kugearen being mentioned or alluded to... could you please be more specific? 

Oh whoops I misremembered when that was said. At the end of the "bad future" arc, when Melia was asking how MC survived Yveltal's blast, Madame X mentioned that it had "happened before" on Valor Mountain and in Kugearen City.

[Between Life and Death]

On 7/3/2020 at 1:03 PM, Feng Lei said:

Betrayal: Probably either Erin or Reina, since of the twins is a traitor, and Ren has already been tried and proven true.

 

Yeah, I could see Reina betraying us for some petty reason. Namely, a love triangle with Huey and Lavender.

[Delta3416]

11 hours ago, Between Life and Death said:

Yeah, I could see Reina betraying us for some petty reason. Namely, a love triangle with Huey and Lavender.

This love triangle, left us in a rec-tangle

 

(like if you get the reference)

 

On 7/5/2020 at 7:11 AM, Between Life and Death said:

Edit: It could also be Melanie. She could take over Melia's body (as foreshadowed)

A compelling idea. It sort of fits with what's been predicted, since we thought Ren was the one that turned evil for real but that was obviously not true. Melanie is still a part of Melia's personality, as shown in that weird dream sequence. She's just sitting there.

 

She's going to be incredibly evil, have no moral compass about her, yet somehow I can redeem her because she's going to have a British accent. :D

[Crimson_Mc_Black]

So i was replaying rejuvenation and I got to the part where you save Saki from the Sharpedo on terajuma island in aquamarine cave and what caught my eye was when she said a red haired woman "saved" her form a "large whale" (presumably Kyogre). Saki already forgot her name but when she attempted to remember she said names awfully close to Freya. also the woman said to remember her name (which Saki already failed. Assuming the woman in question is indeed freya, why would she tell Saki specifically to remember her name?

 

This connection may be in part as to why we haven't seen saki since mt. Valor, and may provide more evidence to the whol "Saki is madame x theory"

(if this was already mentioned, i apologize in advance)

[Between Life and Death]

5 minutes ago, Crimson_Mc_Black said:

So i was replaying rejuvenation and I got to the part where you save Saki from the Sharpedo on terajuma island in aquamarine cave and what caught my eye was when she said a red haired woman "saved" her form a "large whale" (presumably Kyogre). Saki already forgot her name but when she attempted to remember she said names awfully close to Freya.

I'm pretty sure that's why we've all assumed the red haired woman is Freya.

 

7 minutes ago, Crimson_Mc_Black said:

This connection may be in part as to why we haven't seen saki since mt. Valor, and may provide more evidence to the whol "Saki is madame x theory"

(if this was already mentioned, i apologize in advance)

Well, we saw Saki and the others get captured by Freya when the machine crashed. Plus, Saki's twitter has her getting possessed by Freya (or something adjacent). So I was thinking that Freya and Isha may have brainwashed Saki into thinking she was Madame X, and that Kieran and Freya pretended to be her parents. Hence why we saw her with the two of them on Eclysia Pyramid. And maybe Kieran was Lord Xenadin, and both he and Freya "died" in the nuclear explosion, leaving Madame X to become the way she is now?

 

(also: on a completely unrelated note, I just realized that Gloria the Hippowdon is a Madagascar reference)

[Crimson_Mc_Black]

Oi. hol up

So its been confirmed that sivally has a crest right?

thats cool and all, but........

as we learn in game, a crest requires multiple sacrifices of a species of pokemon to make one crest for one pokemon.

And Sivally is an artificial Pokemon just recently created.

As far as i know there are a total of 7 sivally in existence (2 from alola [gladions and yours] 1 from galar, 1 in reborn, 3 in rejuvination [Zetta's, Ren's, and Your's, Unless ren's and zetta's are the same one then that makes 6 total])

Did someone just successfully mass produce them, AND THEN proceed to successfully use Garufan magic to make the crest.

[Gastronely]

The Crests don't necessarily need souls to be made. The Castform Crest, for example, only needed the 3 weather TM's

[Between Life and Death]

One more thing. I just rewatched Adam's flashback where he remembered he was Ryland's brother. The house where Adam and Ryland had parted was the Strange House, AKA the house in the intro and the one MC ended up at when they died. Did Adam and Ryland live in that house at some point too? If so, then there's a weird connection between Maria, the MC, AND Ryland/Adam

[enderowl]

The house that was in the flashback and the one the MC ended up at is the house from the prologue.  And you can go to the exact same house if you go south from Sashila.

[Between Life and Death]

1 minute ago, enderowl said:

The house that was in the flashback and the one the MC ended up at is the house from the prologue.  And you can go to the exact same house if you go south from Sashila.

I know. Which is weird in several ways.

 

1) If the house is real, the scene from the prologue happened in real life (not just in Maria's head, as a lot of us had assumed). So were there two Marias? Two Vituses? Two Anatheas?

2) MC themself started having flashbacks to what the house looked like before--what was their connection to the family?

3) The house was where MC went when they died. Crescent said that she frequently revisited that place. Why?

4) The house was where Adam and Ryland parted ways. Had they been living there? What's the significance of that?

[Feng Lei]

I will say again that the house at the prologue bears more significance than anywhere else for some reason. (Anywhere else means any of the places Maria was sacrificed, in this instance).

 

It is possible, now that I think about it, that maybe this is where Maria managed to break free and escape, becoming Melia somehow. Perhaps Madame X rescues her here and then gives her up to Professor Jenner not long afterword! (Just thought of that).

 

Then we have the bizarre scene that follows, where Maria is sacrificed at the end of the prologue in a dungeon/castle like place. It may be Jan pulled a weird one on us and ends up breaking continuity (perhaps at the time he did the prologue, it wasn't meant to be that way, don't know. How long ago was the prologue implemented? Anyone know of changes/retconns?), so the first scene at the house is actually the LAST time Vitus tries something, and the second stage is actually the very first time he attempts this, likely at Blacksteeple.

 

Anathea's books at Blacksteeple are another BIG puzzler.

 

My thought is still that after her true death and bodily sacrifice, Indriad ends up creating a Kanon-like doll in the likeness of Anathea to keep a facade up for Maria, though that didn't happen at Chrysalis, so I still don't know...

 

Ooh, another thing that just popped into my head: The journal entries underneath the Shridan Wetlands base state that Yveltal is "his" way back if all else fails. But Yveltal is carrying a Soul Stone so I've heard. Which may mean Indriad has died or has means of ensuring that, should he die, he can be resurrected via Yveltal and the stone.

[Between Life and Death]

The prologue is still the same (except the house now has gray tiles, which I hate).

 

Another thought: Reina probably isn't a major enough character to be "betrayal" in the prophecy (Amanda's a way likelier candidate for that). But it's clear she'll betray us at some point, since the oracle said either she or Ren would. Reina's frequently talking about Kieran's "choco-voice", so is she going to fall in love with him? That seems to be what Jan's building up for, but I'm praying that it doesn't happen like that. Reina's one of my favorite characters, and I'll be really annoyed if she betrays us just because one of our sworn enemies is hot.

[Feng Lei]

On 7/10/2020 at 11:36 PM, Between Life and Death said:

Reina's one of my favorite characters, and I'll be really annoyed if she betrays us just because one of our sworn enemies is hot.

But now you make it sound so much like her that I can't unsee it. I was hoping she'd end up in a love triangle with Huey and Lavender. That would fit her better than falling to the choco-voice. (It's so funny how I pegged him as having a chocolate smooth, deep voice the minute he showed up. With a surfer accent of course. It... frightens me... how similar Reina's mind worked compared to mine. In that instance.)

 

I confess that I don't like Reina that much on the character scale. Though I appreciate her place greatly. It works because she meshes well with the GDC characters. And I don't recall her even existing in my initial run of the game. (over two years back). She was a mostly refreshing surprise.

 

Right now, Erin seems like the most likely to betray, given the bombshells she could easily receive. She has a phobia of being trapped, one that is really more of a psychosis. And she was suffering from identity crisis. She's been through horrific and tremendous psychological abuse, all the way up until that hug in the Athenium. She's a good girl at heart, and she's one of the best characters in the game, and really makes Melia and Aelita stand out more as characters. She's all but essential.

 

However, psychological abuses like what she's suffered are permanent like cracks in a mirror. It would not be hard to see her crumble or shatter if struck hard enough. I'm very sure she fell down in Darchlight and, instead of calmly taking a nap, actually went into a fit of hysteria and passed out until Flora's unpleasant voice alerted her to our presence. She even started ranting about NEVER being trapped again. That was what did it. It threw her for a loop to be down there. And she WAS trapped, even if she hadn't explored yet to find that out.

 

Imagine if she learns she must fuse with her siblings to become one being? If that gets couched to her in such a way that it comes across as "in a place forever with now way out and no freedom", literally "trapped", she is going to refuse. It takes only so much nudging for someone who has been betrayed thrice (Souta, Indriad and technically Flora, who she probably wasn't expecting to actually blow her up along with a building. She admits she was expecting it from Melia later, too...) to at return the favor, especially out of self-preservation and terror. I wouldn't blame her. Who wants to be left in the Inner workings with two siblings she probably doesn't care for, and

 

MELANIE?

 

Arceus help her!

 

There could be other factors involved too.

[Between Life and Death]

4 hours ago, Feng Lei said:

But now you make it sound so much like her that I can't unsee it. I was hoping she'd end up in a love triangle with Huey and Lavender. That would fit her better than falling to the choco-voice.

See, I'd be fine with the love triangle scenario. It'd be par the course for this anime-style game (not a bad thing at all). And I mean, I could see her being pissed at Huey for how much she did for him (like disguising him as Kanon), only for him to go with Lavender. Her falling for Kieran would be straight-up pathetic, on the other hand. But I'm worried that'll happen, since every time Kieran is brought up Reina gushes over his choco-voice.

 

4 hours ago, Feng Lei said:

 

I confess that I don't like Reina that much on the character scale. Though I appreciate her place greatly. It works because she meshes well with the GDC characters. And I don't recall her even existing in my initial run of the game. (over two years back). She was a mostly refreshing surprise.

See, I like her because she's so NORMAL. She's not a garufan demon or a piece of the archetype or a designated protector of Aevium. She's not really "in" on any of the stuff that's happening, but she just wants to help. She's also a pleasant relief from the edginess of most of the characters. And she seems like the type of person I'd be friends with in real life.

 

4 hours ago, Feng Lei said:

Right now, Erin seems like the most likely to betray, given the bombshells she could easily receive. She has a phobia of being trapped, one that is really more of a psychosis. And she was suffering from identity crisis. She's been through horrific and tremendous psychological abuse, all the way up until that hug in the Athenium. She's a good girl at heart, and she's one of the best characters in the game, and really makes Melia and Aelita stand out more as characters. She's all but essential.

I could see Erin betraying, yes. I think Reina's betrayal is inevitable (due to the oracle saying either she or Ren would), but she's not a major enough character to be the betrayal in the prophecy. That could be Erin, for the reasons you laid out. It could also be Melia after her body gets taken over by Melanie (would that really count as betrayal though?). Or it could just be Amanda.

 

About Melanie...it seems inevitable that she either takes over Melia's body or escapes through a dimensional rift. Maybe Melia's soul is the one that splits for that reason. In any case, Melanie's set to be one of the final villains; she could either be greed or pure evil.

[Display name]

I think melanie will be pure evil .

 

My reasons are 1 she clearly enjoys the torment she inflcts on others

2 yes she was a princess of sorts but power was not her goal she just wanted to inflict pain on others

3 Melanie seems to be trying to take control over melia or at least influence her decisions

[Between Life and Death]

Another thing I just thought of. What if the Madame X we've known so far was a brainwashed Hazuki? And then Freya and Isha let her go, and brainwashed Saki to replace her? In that case, Cassandra may be the mastermind behind all this.

[Feng Lei]

Hmm... maybe. But I still feel like Madame X has a consistent personality. But of course that could get programmed in.

 

To be honest, the first thing that always struck me while playing, and doubly so after visiting Amethyst Cave... I feel like the woman behind the mask is a clone of Nancy. Nancy said she "wasn't made like the others". Probably the most unexplained comment yet. I'm fairly certain she is a cloned being, not just a maid or something. It would make sense given how the machine spoke in the Cave. Which may mean she's a puppet.

 

The thing that gets me about Madame X is her line of "My mother died to protect me". So, we can gain a lot of insight into who we ultimately narrow down for that. It all comes down to where Saki's mother is. Is she alive now, or not? If she is, then it is unlikely Saki is the Madame, but if she is or does... well...

 

The more I think about it, the more it feels like the Mysterious Duo are actually ultimately good. They don't seem to be operating with Team Xen's best interest at heart, or at least that's the feeling I get. Unless they want Aelita alive for some reason. Maybe they are Stormchasers and the StormChasers are actually working WITH Team Xen?

 

That... would actually suddenly make a LOT of sense, think about it...

[Between Life and Death]

It would take a lot for me to believe the mysterious duo are actually good. They seem pretty unambiguously evil to me, moreso even than Indriad (who seemed like a pretty good guy during his time with Anathea). Freya clearly enjoyed making Kenneth's life complete hell, and Kieran regularly mocks the protagonists in such an infuriating way. They're pretty much the only characters in Rejuvenation that I genuinely hate (even Madelis and Texen get some sympathy from me, now that they're on their redemption arcs).

 

But about Madame X, the one we met on Eclysia Pyramid seemed like a completely different character than the Madame X we knew throughout the storyline. I think it's very likely that she's Saki, at least when she meets us on Eclysia Pyramid. That would explain what happened to Saki, which the devs keep saying should be obvious to us by now. But who was the original Madame X, and what happened to her? This is why I think she might have been Hazuki, which is why she didn't appear in the storyline until right before Zone Zero. Then again, her appearance could have just been a Freya illusion.

[Display name]

The original madame X could have been a few people. First off madame X could have been hazuki. Personally I think Hazuki got too old to be madame X but she is always a possibility. Second Madame X could have been a personalized garufan doll similar to kanon. this to me makes sense because the doll could be used in place of a human until they found a person like saki to become the madame X. 3 Maria Madame X the first seemed to know quite a bit about the light before Melia even used her powers and the only pre melia light that wasn't in the unown dimension was maria.