Save the Officer vs. Save Maria

[Lucifer Morningstar]

I'm struggling a bit with this decision. 

 

My Google research has revealed the following:
- In Save the Officer path, we're successful and the officer survives while in the Save Maria path we fail to save either. 
- Saving the Officer is considered the "right" choice because it falls into the 'save everyone' and 'don't judge people and be the better person' category. 
- Saving Maria (or trying to) awards an extra relationship point with Anathea even though she's a ghost now whereas saving the officer has no effect on the relationship points. 
- Saving the officer makes you Gardevior's enemy #1 whereas you're more a joke than a threat to her if you choose to save Maria. 
- Neither choice effects Melia. 

 

Supposedly saving the officer also allows you to refuse upcoming choices Gardevior (whom I am officially theorizing at this point is either Madam X or Angie) gives you. 

 

I'm leaning more towards the officer but is there anything else I should know?

On a different but somewhat related subject, whilst reading up on this choice I read something that made me question if keeping the Magma Stone was the "right" choice. 
I was aware that in Rejuvenation the choices and relationship points are more important than in Reborn but not to what extent. I didn't realize that there are choices that are considered "right" and "wrong" until I read about this one with the Officer and Maria. 

What my research on the Magma Stone choice entailed seemed to suggest that neither choice changed much except when you get the Magma Drift TM and access to the TM shop. At the time my mindset was that preventing Cera from reviving Angie was more crucial than the Eldest's life and it helped that the Eldest agreed and urges you NOT to give up the stone (and it certainly didn't hurt to know that the Eldest survives both paths). The Eldest appreciating my trust at the end of the scene had been a big comfort at the time but now I'm wondering. 
 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Devilish

[MhicKy]

In my first playthrough I choose to save Maria
Not because I held the same thought process as Venam aka "they got it coming" but because I thought that between saving an adult and a innocent child, it's preferable to save the child.. The fact they committed a crime while being officers, yunno, someone that was suppose to enforce THE LAW was just a small tip on the scale compared to that, afteral, they were just paws that Gardevoir used anyways so, in a way, they were also victims

[Lucifer Morningstar]

That's where I am having the most trouble. 

On the one hand, I don't want to abandon an innocent child, and as Marionette she does/did save our lives. 

However, on the other hand, I don't automatically judge the officer as malicious just because his actions killed someone. 
He made a hasty and terrible choice that went against a sacred duty and should face consequences for it, but he was clearly shocked and traumatized that he'd taken a life. That's not remotely characteristic of a cold person who only cares about their own agenda or some profound bigger picture like "cleansing" the world and human souls in Arceus's name. 

We don't know his story. What appeared to be greed might very well have been desperation and we clearly see at the end of that scene that Gardevior had deceived and manipulated the entire group of officers. At the end of the day, they were just puppets. 

Morally, I want to choose Maria because as you said, the innocent child does tip the scale but based on my knowledge of the outcomes, the Officer seems a bit more favorable because it's successful whereas going for Maria is not and results in losing them both. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Devilish

[Myrrh]

If you care which one has more lasting effects, then save the officer.  It gets you on Gardevoir's bad side, whereas all you get for choosing to save Marionette is a relationship point with Anathea.  Currently there is no relationship point check for Anathea in the game, whereas there is one for getting on Gardevoir's bad side, which changes dialogue in scenes with her later on.

[Edo]

I feel like it's better to give up the Magma stone in order to save the Eldest, since, as you said, there's always a path to "save everyone", and this would be part of it.

And, after comparing the dialogue after Aelita fell in a coma, it really seems like the Eldest is friendlier to you if you gave up the stone, while if you didn't, she seems kinda colder to you since Aelita risked her life, but you only cared to get what you came for. Also, there is a little more dialogue from the Eldest if you gave up the stone.

[Gengar768]

@Edo I dont think it is cause we gain a karma point when we dont hand her it, we only gain karma points if we do something good

 

(stuff like wining the madelis fight with melia or completing a help quest or defeting madame x when we fight her and defeat her)

 

and to answer the officer qusetion. You can cancel saving the officer anytime(what im saying is just like the "do nothing" qustion we get asked later on and we all know how well that turned outReally freaking good everythings green and perfect andevryones happy)

[Edo]

18 minutes ago, Gengar768 said:

@Edo I dont think it is cause we gain a karma point when we dont hand her it, we only gain karma points if we do something good

 

(stuff like wining the madelis fight with melia or completing a help quest or defeting madame x when we fight her and defeat her)

 

and to answer the officer qusetion. You can cancel saving the officer anytime(what im saying is just like the "do nothing" qustion we get asked later on and we all know how well that turned outReally freaking good everythings green and perfect andevryones happy)

Are you sure about the point thing? Cause I remember from the relationship guide that you don't get any points in this situation, regardless of what you choose. (Yup, just checked, this decision isn't mentioned)

I just think it's kind of nice to see her appreciating that you didn't abandon her, and to hear some more lore/backstory from her.

[Gengar768]

@Edo Relationship points are just for the characters Karma points are for the outcome of the story (I  know the page your talking about and thats just for characters)

 

and i guess it is nice but she is a little p'd off with you for giving in and she also questions what was all the point of going to the mountain and having aleita in acoma and not having the magma stone(keep in mind im just talking about all the events in carotus... i havent looked at all the things effected later in the story)

[Lucifer Morningstar]

12 hours ago, Edo said:

I feel like it's better to give up the Magma stone in order to save the Eldest, since, as you said, there's always a path to "save everyone", and this would be part of it.

And, after comparing the dialogue after Aelita fell in a coma, it really seems like the Eldest is friendlier to you if you gave up the stone, while if you didn't, she seems kinda colder to you since Aelita risked her life, but you only cared to get what you came for. Also, there is a little more dialogue from the Eldest if you gave up the stone.

I haven't noticed the Eldest acting less friendly thus far to me, just to Tommen for Aelita's coma. 
Right now where I am at this:
 

3 hours ago, Gengar768 said:

and i guess it is nice but she is a little p'd off with you for giving in and she also questions what was all the point of going to the mountain and having aleita in acoma and not having the magma stone(keep in mind im just talking about all the events in carotus... i havent looked at all the things effected later in the story)

actually makes a lot more sense.
Remember, the Eldest never wanted to go to the ruins in the first place, she was adamant that messing with the Garufa was dangerous but reluctantly gives in because you and Alieta are adamant that the magma stone is of crucial importance (which it is) so I would think that she'd be pissed off with the player for giving up the stone as opposed to keeping it because the risk will have been for nothing and she will have wasted her limited remaining time on a mission she never wanted to go on. 
There is also the fact that the first thing she says to you when you keep the stone is "Thank you for trusting me (insert player's name)."

So now I am feeling better again about that choice but still need to make the officer/Maria choice. 
 

14 hours ago, Myrrh said:

If you care which one has more lasting effects, then save the officer.  It gets you on Gardevoir's bad side, whereas all you get for choosing to save Marionette is a relationship point with Anathea.  Currently there is no relationship point check for Anathea in the game, whereas there is one for getting on Gardevoir's bad side, which changes dialogue in scenes with her later on.

I am honestly, looking a lot at the long term outcome, as much of it as we currently know at least. 
That Maria entails nothing except an essentially useless extra karma point (which I felt was such even before you confirmed it) is quite unappealing to me despite that I do care about Maria and don't want to allow an innocent child to be murdered.  

I read in an older thread I found on Google that the officer will promise to repay your mercy which feels somewhat important to me (as it did to the person who posted that in the old thread). That's the biggest thing that's got me going towards the officer and although I don't care as much what Gardevior thinks a tiny part of me does want the bitch to fear me.  

Forgive me Maria and Anathea, but the officer it is. 

 

3 hours ago, Gengar768 said:

I dont think it is cause we gain a karma point when we dont hand her it, we only gain karma points if we do something good

It seems to have changed.
In a V9 relationship variable guide there is only a -2 from Venam if you both DID NOT save Amber AND gave the Magma Stone to Cera whereas in the most updated relationship variable guide for V12 no points are listed for the what you choose to do with the Magma Stone. 

 

 

 

Update: I saved the officer and Venam had agreed to go after Maria so I feel good about equal effort being distributed to both just the same. 
Another thing that led me to the officer was that while I believe he should face consequences for his actions, Gardevior's punishment was not the properly just one. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Devilish

[Gengar768]

2 hours ago, Devilish said:

In a V9 relationship variable guide there is only a -2 from Venam if you both DID NOT save Amber AND gave the Magma Stone to Cera whereas in the most updated relationship variable guide for V12 no points are listed for the what you choose to do with the Magma Stone. 

Oh im not talking bout relatishship points im talking about karma points. Relationship points effect indiviual characters whilst karma points effects the good things you did

 

Let me explain in every help sidequest you do you gain karma points (not relationship points) there basically sying its a good thing your doing. when your in certain situations that determine whether you gain or loose karma,that yousually effects your good ending or bad (i dont know how realtionship points effect the game yet i just know so far they dont execpt for an event that effects another persons relationship with you)

 

to sum it up its the game saying what thing/action you took was a good thing

 

not giving into Cera was a good thing you did so you get karma points is basically what im saying
(dont worry it was confusing for me too at first)

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

12 minutes ago, Gengar768 said:

Oh im not talking bout relatishship points im talking about karma points. Relationship points effect indiviual characters whilst karma points effects the good things you did

 

Let me explain in every help sidequest you do you gain karma points (not relationship points) there basically sying its a good thing your doing. when your in certain situations that determine whether you gain or loose karma,that yousually effects your good ending or bad (i dont know how realtionship points effect the game yet i just know so far they dont execpt for an event that effects another persons relationship with you)

 

to sum it up its the game saying what thing/action you took was a good thing

 

not giving into Cera was a good thing you did so you get karma points is basically what im saying
(dont worry it was confusing for me too at first)

Oh I see, I didn't realize there were two different sets of point systems. I appreciate the explanation. 
So it's the Karma points that matter most?

[Gengar768]

1 hour ago, Devilish said:

So it's the Karma points that matter most?

Yes but The character points also help get the Karma points

Just try to be a nice person and always think about a situation before you make a big desicison in general with this game.......Real life advice in a game huh betcha didnt expect THAT in a fangame or this topic 

 

(Rejuvenation the only game that makes me think REAL HARD about how to be a good person)

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Just now, Gengar768 said:

Yes but The character points also help get the Karma points

Just try to be a nice person and always think about a situation before you make a big desicison.......Real life advice in a game huh betcha didnt expect THAT in a fangame or this topic 

 

(Rejuvenation the only game that makes me think REAL HARD about how to be a good person)

Lol. 
I always do take each decision seriously. This one between the Officer and Maria was the hardest one so far in both Rejuvenation and Reborn but I am quite satisfied with my decision!

[Edo]

5 hours ago, Gengar768 said:

@Edo Relationship points are just for the characters Karma points are for the outcome of the story (I  know the page your talking about and thats just for characters)

 

and i guess it is nice but she is a little p'd off with you for giving in and she also questions what was all the point of going to the mountain and having aleita in acoma and not having the magma stone(keep in mind im just talking about all the events in carotus... i havent looked at all the things effected later in the story)

 

2 hours ago, Devilish said:

actually makes a lot more sense.
Remember, the Eldest never wanted to go to the ruins in the first place, she was adamant that messing with the Garufa was dangerous but reluctantly gives in because you and Alieta are adamant that the magma stone is of crucial importance (which it is) so I would think that she'd be pissed off with the player for giving up the stone as opposed to keeping it because the risk will have been for nothing and she will have wasted her limited remaining time on a mission she never wanted to go on. 
There is also the fact that the first thing she says to you when you keep the stone is "Thank you for trusting me (insert player's name)."

 

Yeah you're both right, I just interpreted too much into her lines. (I still have all save files for certain important scenes, so I replayed both scenarios quickly.)
She isn't exactly colder nor friendlier no matter what you choose, the dialogues are mostly identical. Even if you give up the stone, she's not angry with you. She just says "thanks for trusting me" as you mentioned if you keep the stone.

After Tommen disappears, she says some other lines that differ a little. If you give up the stone, she tells you to go meet your friends, do what you have to do and then return to her. She also tells you how to purify Shadow mons by yourself now. But if you keep the stone, she only tells you to return to your friends and tell them about "poor Aelita" (which sounded really weird to me). She doesn't say anything else, neither about the shadow mons, nor about returning to her, which sounded to me like she doesn't want you to return to her. This was probably what made me think she's pissed at you if you keep the stone.

 

But yeah, probably just a misunderstanding from me, it's not like it's clear in what tone she says all of this. Especially if only keeping the stone increases the karma variable.

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Edo

[Lucifer Morningstar]

25 minutes ago, Edo said:

After Tommen disappears, she says some other lines that differ a little. If you give up the stone, she tells you to go meet your friends, do what you have to do and then return to her. She also tells you how to purify Shadow mons by yourself now. But if you keep the stone, she only tells you to return to your friends and tell them about "poor Aelita" (which sounded really weird to me). She doesn't say anything else, neither about the shadow mons, nor about returning to her, which sounded to me like she doesn't want you to return to her. This was probably what made me think she's pissed at you if you keep the stone.

Huh, interesting. 

My best guess is that keeping the stone instills a bit more urgency into your need to leave and "return to your friends" whereas if you relinquish the stone you don't leave with what you came for and can't immediately accomplish your task so a little extra time spent with the Eldest makes no difference. 

 

On the Officer/Maria subject, when I saved the officer something came to my attention. You need Magma Drift to do it. If you do that whole scene with no method of using Magma Drift (you didn't buy the Golden Drift Board AND don't have a Pokemon that can use the move with you) I presume you're forced to save Maria. I just found that rather intriguing unless I'm wrong (side note: I have the Golden Drift Board). 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Devilish