[OU] Sand too stronku.tp

[Fezzdog]

At A Glance - Peaked Rank #9

Process of building the team

I normally build teams around a core of two pokemon, which I flesh out later. I decided with Excadrill and Chandelure. Both of them are strong contenders in Reborn’s OU and have generally been favourites of mine this generation. Chandelure has featured in many of my PS UU teams. Excadrill was the first Gen 5 Pokemon I used competitively. The ability to use them both in Reborn's OU at their full potential was pretty tempting, especially considering that 4 of these Pokemon would be considered Ubers by Smogon's tier lists.

I started with Excadrill as a sweeper because he has pseudo-access to EdgeQuake coverage. I started out with Swords Dance, Earthquake and Rock Slide to decide on whether I would use Iron Head or X-scissor later on depending on how I fleshed out my team. I tried Life Orb at first for the damage boost considering Sand Rush would allow me to sweep before I got hit hard enough for Life Orb recoil to kill me.

I put in Chandelure because of his godlike 145 base Special Attack, Shadow Tag and because I love him to bits. I normally run him as a Choice Scarf set and this team would be no different. He acts as a revenge killer and trapper for anything that might threaten Excadrill as long as it isn’t a Water-type.



Now I had to decide my Sand inducer. I only really decided on Tyranitar because he could hopefully take out a pokemon before dying, whereas Hippowdon is generally a stall pokemon in my mind. He acted as my stealth rocks lead and a valuable Dark-type for any Ghosts threatening Chandelure. Sand Stream broke any potential sashes on my opponent’s leads and pokemon in general and gave me the option to stall with several other bulky pivots if I had to resort to that as an option.



All 3 of these pokemon had a weakness to Water-types. I naturally went to Crocune as a bulky water-type because he featured in many of my UU teams over in the PO Beta server and on PS. Here on Reborn, I could try running Water Absorb on him. He worked a charm versus opposing Politoed leads. He could potentially stall in Sand as well due to his fantastic bulk after a Calm Mind or two.



Genesect was too scary not to try out. He provided another Choice Scarf Revenge killer option and could also potentially act as a lead if I wanted him to. His coverage and speed was a godsend for my team. His fantastic defensive typing was also a lovely attraction for pivoting out with U-turn.



I felt ground-type moves were still very threatening to the rest of the team so I stuck in Skarmory. He could act as another pivot and would also phase for me and set up Spikes. His defensive stats allowed him to also take Fighting moves admirably.



Eventually, I found Skarmory didn’t put in too much work. I had too much trouble versus many rain teams because of their Electric-type pokemon. I was reluctant to switch into Excadrill whenever I predicted an Electric move because Excadrill lacked the speed in rain to do anything back towards them without taking a potential focus blast from Thundurus or Gengar. I switched Skarmory to Garchomp for another Ground-type to take Electric moves that Suicune couldn’t. Garchomp was bulky, worked admirably in Sand and had weaknesses to Ice and Dragon, which were shored up by Chandelure, Genesect and Suicune. This is where I switched Excadrill to an Air Balloon set which allowed him to take the heat off Chandelure if I suspected a ground move incoming. Plus, Mach Punch could potentially be absorbed by Chandelure. I figured Garchomp, Tyranitar, Chandelure and Sand would be more than enough to wear down opponents to the point of being able to be swept by Excadrill without Life Orb.

Yay!

Individual Analysis

Tyranitar (F) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Sand Stream

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)

- Crunch

- Fire Blast

- Low Kick

- Stealth Rock

Acts as a scout due to his decent bulk and sets up Sand and Stealth Rocks for me. Fire Blast catches out unsuspecting Scizors, Ferrothorns and Skarmorys. Low Kick is for opposing Tyranitars, whilst Crunch is another STAB move that hits Ghost-types that would threaten Chandelure. Focus Sash allows me to live any opposing Tyranitar Superpowers or Low Kicks for me to whack them back in the face and let me set up Rocks later.

Genesect @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Download

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)

- U-turn

- Ice Beam

- Bug Buzz

- Flamethrower

In Wi-fi Battle clause, Genesect can act as another lead to break potential sashes through his quick U-turn and give me an edge in the beginning by pivoting into something bulky enough to take a predicted hit. His coverage and speed makes him a great asset as a revenge killer and his typing also allows me to take an unboosted outrage and hit back with an Ice Beam for hopefully 4x Super Effective damage. If not, Download will most likely do enough damage anyways. Naive nature because I'm a mixed set and because Sand already boosts my SDef.

Suicune @ Leftovers

Trait: Water Absorb

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Calm Mind

- Rest

- Sleep Talk

- Scald

Tanks things like a beast while you set-up for the sweep. This dude has probably given me more sweeps than Excadrill. He works well for my kind of play-style of bulky offense. Tanks Water-types that would otherwise threaten most of the team and doesn’t get countered by Ditto or Jellicent as Rest and Water Absorb lets you PP stall forever. By the team I get +3 Calm Mind, Thundurus and Jolteon will have trouble, but I will generally switch out before then. Rest allows me to sleep off any incoming toxic or burn damage. Being a mono-attacker isn't really a problem once at +6. Full Def investment is used because Sand makes Garchomp, Tyranitar and Genesect able to take special hits.

Chandelure (F) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Shadow Tag

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Fire Blast

- Shadow Ball

- Hidden Power [ice]

- Energy Ball

Chandelure is my revenge killer and trapper which can also go for shutting down Ninetales early on so I can ensure I win the weather war. He normally goes down very quickly due to his need to switch because of Choice Scarf and my lack of Rapid Spin. I generally keep him for high priority targets, but a 145 base Special Attack will put dents in pretty much anything with his two STABs. I go for Hidden Power Ice over the common HP Fighting because revenge-killing opposing Dragonites and Salamences are a top priority, whilst I have Garchomp and Excadrill for the likes of Heatran. More Pokemon have a 4x weakness to Ice than Fighting anyways.

(Garchomp) (F) @ Yache Berry

Trait: Sand Veil

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- Swords Dance

- Outrage

- Earthquake

- Fire Fang

Garchomp takes Electric moves when I am reluctant to switch in Excadrill. His decent bulk in Sand allows him to take a variety of other moves as well. His speed also allows him to act as another sweeper if I need him to step up. Even without Swords Dance, which I rarely use anyways, he will hurt anything with either a STAB Earthquake or Outrage. I opt out of running Choice Scarf on him because I already run two on the team and he has Sand Veil and already decent speed to work with. Yache Berry lets him get out a strong hit on anything that would Ice Beam him that isn't a Genesect.

Excadrill (F) @ Air Balloon

Trait: Sand Rush

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Swords Dance

- Earthquake

- Rock Slide

- Iron Head

Once it gets to the clutch stages of the match, it’s time for Excadrill to shine. Sand and the rest of the team will normally have worn down the opponent’s team enough for Excadrill to start sweeping with Sand Rush. Pseudo-EdgeQuake coverage gives me everything I need to kill a team once they've gotten through the trials of Sand, Chandelure, Tyranitar, Garchomp and Suicune.

Exportable:

Tyranitar (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Low Kick
- Stealth Rock

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower

Excadrill (F) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Chandelure (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [ice]
- Energy Ball

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald

(Garchomp) (F) @ Yache Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

Identified Threats:

So far, Conkeldurr and Kingdra have been very scary so far. Conkeldurr's ability to run Payback, Stone Edge, Ice Punch and Mach Punch give it options to run over practically my whole team. I have considered Slowbro, but he provides less than Suicune because status affects him, which isn't great considering Sand is battering me all the time as well. I honestly have no idea how to kill Kingdra in Rain unless I flinch him to death with Excadrill's Rock Slide or manage to get Suicune fully set-up beforehand.

Will post up a more detailed threats list when I can

Edited September 5, 2013 by Fezzdog

[diana]

One thing I feel you should know off the bat is that you're a scr- nah, jk, but Sand only boosts Rock Types Sp. Def, not all three

Other than that, this team is insanely terrifiying to face, from personal experience; the thing I can say to Conkeldurr is get a strong Psychic type that can OHKO it; or just a psychic move. Psychic on Chandelure is an option if you feel comfortable without having HP Ice.

[Fezzdog]

One thing I feel you should know off the bat is that you're a scr- nah, jk, but Sand only boosts Rock Types Sp. Def, not all three

Other than that, this team is insanely terrifiying to face, from personal experience; the thing I can say to Conkeldurr is get a strong Psychic type that can OHKO it; or just a psychic move. Psychic on Chandelure is an option if you feel comfortable without having HP Ice.

Oh cool, never knew that. Even so, good defensive typing and decent bulk is nice on Genesect and Garchomp anyways. I run HP Ice because I get scared of the scarf Salamence Fire Blast and the Dnite Fire punch when putting them up against Genesect.

Chandelure Psychic damage calcs:

Bulk Up set

252 SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 252-298 (66.14 - 78.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(252, 256, 258, 262, 264, 268, 270, 274, 276, 280, 282, 286, 288, 292, 294, 298)

Fire Blast: 66.14 - 77.95%

Status Orb set

252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 128 HP / 128 SpD Conkeldurr: 255-300 (66.57 - 78.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(255, 258, 261, 264, 267, 270, 273, 276, 279, 282, 285, 288, 291, 294, 297, 300)

Psychic: 66.31 - 78.32%

252 HP/0 SDef

252 SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 304-358 (73.42 - 86.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(304, 306, 310, 314, 318, 322, 324, 328, 332, 336, 340, 342, 346, 350, 354, 358)

Fire Blast: 73.18 - 86.23%

252 HP/252 SDef

252 SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Conkeldurr: 220-260 (53.14 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Fire Blast: 53.14 - 62.56%

0HP/0 Sdef

252 SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 304-358 (86.6 - 101.99%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

(304, 306, 310, 314, 318, 322, 324, 328, 332, 336, 340, 342, 346, 350, 354, 358)

Fire Blast: 86.32 - 101.7%

Similar damage. I'd rather have HP Ice that does 4x Super-Effective to more pokemon than a 2x Super-Effective move that counters only one pokemon and does around the same damage as Fire Blast already does.

[Desper]

Not going to say I approve of the team, but that's more of an issue with the tiers here rather than your team itself. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, as they say.

Genesect/Chandelure is a proven combo that is easy to use and abuse, especially with lack of preview. Again, I don't like seeing it, but it is effective within the tier and can wreck other teams in a single turn. Keldeo looks like somewhat of a threat to your team, but I didn't read everything so not sure if you have a counter in mind. I think it may be worthwhile to put Thunderbolt over Bug Buzz or Flamethrower (on Genesect obviously), seeing how you appear weak to several water types (and rain teams in general).

Excadrill is, well... Excadrill. Can't say I'm a fan of Swift Swim/Sand Rush abuse either, but I suppose if you are going to run sand within these tiers you may well get the most out of it. I'm curious if there is any specific reason you decided on Iron Head, though. Is it for levitators maybe, like Lati@s/Balloon Terrakion? I haven't looked over the team too much so I'm not sure if you have counters in mind for those either. If you feel like you can deal with those or don't need Iron Head, I would consider running Rapid Spin over it. Your team is all grounded (sans the balloon) and also not particularly resistant to rocks. I understand that a coverage move can be valuable, but it's something to consider.

I know TTar is a good counter for Lati@s, but it looks like you have a sash lead set for that... so idk. I might consider running a specially defensive set with Pursuit rather than Low Kick, but that's just my opinion. I just feel like pursuit is such a valuable move in the OU metagame, especially with a lack of team preview and a psychic immunity. If you did that, anyway, it might free up your Excadrill from that moveslot.

It may just be me, but I don't feel like Garchomp is the best fit for your team. Its role seems to overlap with that of Excadrill, in that they are both physical sweepers with SD and have similar coverage. You may be better off running something like double dance Terrakion, mixed Lando, or even a dedicated rain counter such as specially defensive Celebi. Celebi and Landorus are especially versatile, and can do a lot of different things for your team. Not saying Garchomp is completely useless-- I'm not the one who made the team, so I'm not sure what you had in mind when putting it on there. Just thought I would offer some other choices.

Getting kinda lazy here, so I will wrap it up by saying that it looks like a good team. You seem to cover a lot of threats from all ends of the spectrum. It's always hard to try and account for everything in the OU metagame, and even more so when there is no team preview and almost no limit to what the opponent can use. It's not perfect, as you have a striking weakness to rain, but you already know that since you mentioned it with Kingdra.

Hope my points could help in some way, and if not, well at least you got another opinion.

(Oh, and just as a side note, reading your other post-- Celebi could work as a last-ditch counter to Conkeldurr, if you have Psychic and manage to get him to a decent amount of HP. Not gonna run calcs or anything, but it should KO from somewhere around 70-80% if not being a OHKO. It pretty much walls Kingdra as well, unless it's like a DD set. On my S.def Celebis I like to run Giga Drain/Psychic/Recover/U-Turn.)

Edited September 6, 2013 by Desper

[Fezzdog]

Not going to say I approve of the team, but that's more of an issue with the tiers here rather than your team itself. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, as they say.

Also partially why I use them ahah.

Genesect/Chandelure is a proven combo that is easy to use and abuse, especially with lack of preview. Again, I don't like seeing it, but it is effective within the tier and can wreck other teams in a single turn. Keldeo looks like somewhat of a threat to your team, but I didn't read everything so not sure if you have a counter in mind. I think it may be worthwhile to put Thunderbolt over Bug Buzz or Flamethrower (on Genesect obviously), seeing how you appear weak to several water types (and rain teams in general).

Chandelure often trades 1 for 1 and a half. It serves as a revenge killer and something reserved for high priority threats. Sand and rocks will often leave him dead after a switch, so I run Flamethrower on Genesect for the extra security. Keldeo has been a threat beforehand, but he's relatively rare in Reborn's OU when there's Drizzle Swim to be abused.

Excadrill is, well... Excadrill. Can't say I'm a fan of Swift Swim/Sand Rush abuse either, but I suppose if you are going to run sand within these tiers you may well get the most out of it. I'm curious if there is any specific reason you decided on Iron Head, though. Is it for levitators maybe, like Lati@s/Balloon Terrakion? I haven't looked over the team too much so I'm not sure if you have counters in mind for those either. If you feel like you can deal with those or don't need Iron Head, I would consider running Rapid Spin over it. Your team is all grounded (sans the balloon) and also not particularly resistant to rocks. I understand that a coverage move can be valuable, but it's something to consider.

I've considered X-Scissor for the super-effective Lati@s hit, but Chandelure and Tyranitar is often a guaranteed kill. Tyranitar in Sand can tank the predicted Surf. Going to try Rapid Spin, I've only ever used Rapid Spin on an SDef Excadrill in Ubers and even then, it was meh at best. Should be better than the Iron Head though, I barely use it.

I know TTar is a good counter for Lati@s, but it looks like you have a sash lead set for that... so idk. I might consider running a specially defensive set with Pursuit rather than Low Kick, but that's just my opinion. I just feel like pursuit is such a valuable move in the OU metagame, especially with a lack of team preview and a psychic immunity. If you did that, anyway, it might free up your Excadrill from that moveslot.

Chandelure is a nice enough switch in for Lati@s. TTar isn't really the main switch-in. I'd hate having to bring him out and risk losing the weather war.

It may just be me, but I don't feel like Garchomp is the best fit for your team. Its role seems to overlap with that of Excadrill, in that they are both physical sweepers with SD and have similar coverage. You may be better off running something like double dance Terrakion, mixed Lando, or even a dedicated rain counter such as specially defensive Celebi. Celebi and Landorus are especially versatile, and can do a lot of different things for your team. Not saying Garchomp is completely useless-- I'm not the one who made the team, so I'm not sure what you had in mind when putting it on there. Just thought I would offer some other choices.

Never considered Celebi, I might try him actually. I ran Garchomp because Thundurus-T threatened me in rain and I wasn't willing to let Excadrill die to the Focus Blast because the whole point of the team beforehand was to whittle the enemy down with Sand and the other pokes to the point I could sweep with Excadrill. Honestly, Excadrill just feels terrible without his Sand to back him up. Garchomp allowed me an option to force switches and provide presence without bringing out TTar on an unfavourable switch and risk losing the weather war.

[Lord Emvee]

Your team is particularly weak to rain teams in general. Suicune is not going to be able to handle it alone, as the team overall is particularly weak to LO Ludicolo and Kingdra. You'll have a tough time winning the weather war as well, because you're using a suicude lead Tyranitar. To solve your problem, swap Genesect for Ferrothorn. Your team is also weak to Terrakion, as nothing is able to safely switch in on it (Excadrill is the only check, but it can't save you against double dance sets). Not really sure what to say though, as suggesting a solution for this would result in changing your team entirely. For now though, I'd focus on trying to make your team have the upper hand in weather wars. Changing up your TTar set for example, would give you a better chance at winning weather wars (provided you use a bulkier set than a suicude sash lead). This is certainly not everything there is to fix but it's a start.

Edited September 6, 2013 by So Heroic