Norm Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Desolation V5 In-game tiers Howdy! I’ve decided to compile a viability/ in game tiers This type of list is inspired by Smogon’s series of In game tiers. Typically these tiers are for quick runs of the maingames, organizing Pokemon by tiers based on how they perform in the game with criteria like availability, in-game movepool, notable matchups, and overall strength at all stages the mon is present in. Reborn’s idea of limiting resources is largely based on the Orre games, so I think that those games make a good reference as to how these lists work. Most of the “good” Pokemon help you get through the game’s content faster and easier. They’re not really a speedrun, but they do prioritize Pokemon that speed up the game by making the game easier. They are generally able to dispatch enemies quickly in random battles, and perform well in important battles as well. It’s worth mentioning Reborn-Esque fangames reward exploration heavily, and Desolation in particular has plot-benefits from exploration, so rushing through content is often ill advised. Pokemon won’t be knocked for having to backtrack to do it, or if it’s off the beaten path. Time sinks like breeding for usable movepools would knock off a few points because it requires a lot more effort and planning to do, and isn’t necessary outside of things like a Monotype run. Reborn Esque games have much more difficulty than most of the mainline games, and many more Pokemon available. Better Pokemon tend to be staggered through the game, and most players will tend to have a rotation of Pokemon. I tend to give more points to availability than stopping power. Conkeldurr may be better than Hariyama in every way theoretically, but Conkeldurr ain’t around for Tristan and comes at a far lower level than Hariyama would be at. However, Conkeldurr can pick up the slack if you feel Hariyama’s petering out as more versions come out. As a result Hariyama would be considered “better” in this part of the game because it is a strong asset in a difficult part of the game. Hariyama isn’t better in a vacuum, but it makes the game easier as it’s easy to acquire and immediately helps fill out a roster. Temp. Pokemon and having a rotation is often encouraged in these games. From experience, I’d say the best way is to have a 6-man main team and having 2-4 (Maybe 6 if you really want to) rotation Pokemon. I really think it’s unnecessary to have an entire box full of rotation Pokemon, you can do it but it means more grinding and kinda defeats the purpose of tight team building. It is a nice safety net for many. Things that make a mon good Immediate usefulness (how long until it takes off) Availability (Ideally the Pokemon comes early and isn’t in the crest shop. It doesn’t knock a mon too much if they’re in the shop, but they cost a pretty penny, and adds up when you start getting multiple for a team. Natural Kit (Same as Reborn/Rejuv. Greater emphasis on what a pokemon can get naturally without tms and tutors compared to main game) General Performance. General I think is a more important metric since if you’re good in this category, you’re gonna be good in Boss battles as well (e.x. Lycanroc, Infernape). There are some support Pokemon or Tanks that shine in Boss Battles, but slog just going through routes (D M-Meowstic). Desolation also has a lot of long routes with trainers that are packing heat, so it’s good to have a mon that can carry you through these Offense is generally the best defense in vanilla Pokemon (With some annoying exceptions…) and field effects generally make face-tanking much harder. Notable Battles Either Switch or Set works for this, keep in mind that Switch lets you get away with Playing aggressively, thus rewarding sweepers more. With Set, you might want something defensive at times in these fangames, but not so much that you become stall. That rarely works with field effect damage being so high. Notes Pokemon within tiers are unordered more or less, probably will stay that way, given varied roles and stuff. If you like weather teams, Weather is actually pretty decent here with at least 1 available in each weather (Politoed=Rain, Gigalith,= Sand, Ninetales = Sun Vanillish = Hail). The pecking order right now is Rain>Sand>>Sun>>>Hail (Don’t do hail please…) so, basically the normal pecking order if you’ve ever done Singles weather. There is less of an earlygame period compared to Reborn and Rejuv. Those games have 4 gyms in by the time Deso has 2, so the Fall-off gang mons like Kricketune and Vivillon are far less desirable Given that, I have no idea what to do with D-Tier ATM Any mon with a ? followed by a + or – means I think that you could argue higher or lower, and may be able to rise if enough demonstrable experiences are corroborated Day Care is pretty hard to justify the time sink it and how far in you get it. It isn’t too far in the grand scheme of things, but breeding takes time, even moreso with Egg moves. If there are easy to obtain egg moves through breeding that don’t take much training/chain breeding. Let me know. Challenge Runs like Mono-type and Lockes aren’t really going to be considered in this list, mostly because I don’t really do them often, and also because it doesn’t really change placements. You could just look at a list based on your restrictions and things will perform as they do. S-Tier Spoiler Blaziken?+ Easily the best sweeper in the game Bulk Up + STABS is almost unrivalled in natural movesets Speed boost gives it boosts each turn, making it incredibly fast if it gets in off a good matchup Essentially works as a win-con if set up properly, able to punch holes in teams, if not outright sweep. Blaziken is like the only guy who can sweep through the speed demons that many bosses tend to pack as a vibe-check in the midgame. Amazing offenses, can even go mixed if you want with Work Up later. Listen, man. he’s just really good. Has some problems early game with the early bosses, specifically Aderyn There are very few Pokemon that check it, most of them uncommon. but they can hardwall Blaziken. Needs at least 1 move tutor, which is 5 credits a pop. Ideally HJK and/or Flare Blitz or even Fire punch for consistency No Wide Lens means it can choke when you don’t want it to. Lycanroc (Dusk) AKA Sn1p3rD0GG0 Immediately useful for Shiv and Connor Evolves early with Great stats Gets Thrash at lvl 25, combined with its ability this does more than STAB Stone edge at neutral. Howl can really come in clutch in the early/midgame 117/110 offenses is great basically the entire campaign and doesn’s show signs of slowing down He’s a good pup - Great earlygame matchups, easily the best for the starters - Defenses are weak, can’t take too many hits - Kind of one trick with Rock/Normal atm, but still has room to grow Flygon Probably the best non-starter sweeper Great typing, hitting most enemies for Neutral at best Great moveset. Dragon dance is supported by Earthquake and D-Claw and rounded out by choice of Crunch, Superpower (Trapinch), Rock slide, or even Return. Evolves quite soon after you get it Very good against fights like Emily, Aaron, and can even set up on Rosetta’s Klefki and sweep if carrying Rock slide. Kind of Credit Hungry. Needs Dragon Dance, and then maybe wants Rock Slide, though Superpower and Crunch are just as good (They can’t be learned again through relearner either) A-Tier Spoiler Infernape Basically Blaziken lite with some Key differences Trades stopping power for More versatility and some utility Has good move options in Close Combat/Grass knot/Flare Blitz/Taunt/Mach Punch/Acrobatics. Fire/Fighting STAB really carries Can even run special sets with Access to Calm Mind/Nasty Plot from Chimchar though it really doesn’t have the moveset for this yet. Good abilities with Blaze/Iron fist. Blaze is currently better unless you plan to use Mach Punch. Frail, with 76/71/71 defenses While fast, 108 speed is outspeed by quite a few things. Try not to overestimate its natural speed. Overall Great Swiss Army Pokemon Dodrio Don’t sleep on Dodrio, kids. It’s basically a goofy lookin’ Staraptor, and the kids love their Staraptors. Dodrio is a premier sweeper, which is rare in Deso, as most sweepers don’t all their moves through level 110/110 Offenses are a great Sweeper chassis Normal/Flying + Fighting coverage is effectively perfect coverage + Swords Dance lets it sweep quite effectively. Even has Priority/ Double Dance option with Agility and Accupressure’s a fun meme too. Frail as hell with 70/60/60 defenses and few resistances make it hard for it to set up heavy. Has pretty bad 4 move-slot syndrome, wanting to have its perfect coverage but has to pick between Return for damage vs Quick Attack Priority; Coverage for the occasional Double Dance set (Agility/Accupressure+Swords Dance) Things like to get really fast real quick in Deso for boss battles (Swellow/Mega Lopunny/Mega Manectric, meaning that it’s good speed is gonna be contested and Drio does not like getting hit in the fa-er… faces. Delphox?+ Another solid Fire mon Largely unchanged from Reborn Strong moveset for most of the game, with good STAB combo and strong utility like Light Screen and Will-o-wisp Good offenses with 114/100 letting it hit hard Early Psychics are pretty rare right now, which gives Delphox some value Decent special bulk with 75/72/100 but note the lower phys. defense Good coverage with Grass knot/Dazzing Gleam through TM, and Shadow Ball through Tutor Not a dedicated sweeper having no boosting methods Overall just a real solid mon with few, similar to Infernape, but with an arguably less powerful STAB Combo Incineroar Strong Physically with 115 Attack Great Bulk of 90/95/90 is boosted by Intimidate Flame Charge coming early lets it boost its low speed Can even get Bulk up through Relearner if you want a kind of bulky setup sweeper Fire/Dark is quite good offensively It’s level up movepool is pretty late-bloomer excepting Darkest Lariat with some status and middling normal coverage. As mentioned before, its quite slow and needs quite a few set up turns if you’re playing the sweeper (Though it’s bulk and ability give it more time than competition) Has to choose between Tanky attacker with Versatile coverage, or Sweeper with 2 STABS + Flame Charge/Bulk up, both of which have flaws. Swampert Great Typing with only one weakness, but you knew this already Has much better stats overall than its brethren of the same typing 100/90/90 bulk and 110/85 offensives lets it take and hit back pretty well Gets most of what it needs via level-up with Muddy Water, Rock Slide, and Earthquake all being great moves ingame. Wishes it had a good physical Water STAB Is quite slow, so it’s gonna be taking hits pretty often. It’s power is a bit middling between level 38 to 51 (Muddy Water to EQ) Greninja Comes out the gate immediately useful, Can body Connor if sweeping Four-Eyes appeals to you Protean giving STAB on Everything gives it a good early-midgame. Despite it’s bad defenses. Protean is surprisingly good defensively as the AI can’t play around it. You can use it to chip down mons and kill with an effective attack. Good early TMs like Hidden Power (You can reliably albeit tediously roll for a good one) Aerial Ace, and Grass Knot Grass Knot lowkey makes it one of the best Grass Starters Base 122 is very fast, (not fast enough for some of the fast megas you fight, but it is what it is) 95/103 lets it go physical or special and still run mixed coverage It’s not a sweeper, Its damage is good, but never really oneshot range in boss fights. Can struggle against Defensive Pokemon that can hit back. Is stuck with base 60 moves for a long time and Water Pulse is Stuck with Water Pulse for Water STAB for a long time (until surf). Primarina Good stats and Typing make it deceptively tanky. Hits hard with a chonk 126 Spatk stat Great natural movepool comprised of mix of damage and utility Sing/Encore/and even Misty Terrain Lategame Gets move upgrades quick with Sparkling Aria at 34 and Moonblast 10 levels later. A real good pick for an all arounder that can usually find a way to meaningfully contribute Quite slow 80/74/116 Defenses are lopsided towards SpDef, not really a flaw, but something to remember matchup wise. Primarina likes to pick its battles as it’s not a dedicated sweeper. Serperior Peculiar Starter that’s a high investment sweeper provided you’re willing to put up with it being trash for a long time Contrary Leaf storm is available… as a Snivy at lvl 43. You’re gonna have to put up with it or just not use it for the meantime. As a result it’s terrible for the first two gyms, but Khrona brought up a great point that it was trash anyways It can do some weaker set up sets with Coil or Growth, but those are way worse 75/75 offenses are pretty bad pre-boosting 75/95/95 defenses is pretty good, but it isn’t really wall, especially with field boosted moves Leaf Storm on Contrary is essentially Nasty Plot + STAB 140 Damage, that’s pretty crazy Is pretty amazing for Boss fights from Tristan to Emily It’s movepool isn’t actually too bad. Leaf Storm/Wring Out/Hidden Power/Giga Drain (You can save scum if you want) is actually quite good. Terrible for most early routes like Vejyr and Silver Rise, unlike every other Starter basically Serperior is a very potent special Sweeper if you want to invest into it, but keep in mind its limitations and the opportunity cost if you care. M-Meowstic Premier Screen Setter. That’s all it should do Prankster lets it set up screens with priority! Comes at too high a level to get light screen without Relearner Listen, Meowstic sets up screens, That’s all it does well. That isn’t a knock against Meowstic, Screens let your set up sweepers and big hitters stay in for longer and wreak more havoc. It’s pretty amazing as far as it goe None of its stats matter, it’s bulk is 74/76/81 fwiw, but Screens are Screens and it’s currently unrivaled in that regard (A-Ninetales, not available yet btw, is arguably better, but also arguably worse) Meowstic can be slotted anytime, even underlevelled just to set up screens or maybe weather. Starmie Ladies and gentlemen, I present: Greninja-lite Comes somewhat late at Blackview, but is out the gate good with a Waterstone, and a move tutor (Prob Hydro Pump) Great Movepool with great available coverage. Pump and Psychic are good, and can get coverage like Power Gem and Dazzling Gleam 100/115 relevant offenses is pretty good, and made better by its coverage. 60/85/85 is coming pretty close to good defenses. No setup options lowers its damage output considerably compared to others Has problems with 4MSS Possibly Credit-hungry, depending on what you want it to do, Darmanitan Haha Flare Blitz go brrr- oops I’m dead. The epitome of Glass Cannon 140 Atk + Sheer Force means BIG DAMAGE Flare Blitz is a veritable nuke when boosted by STAB and Sheer Force Superpower/Hammer arm make for good coverage but be wary of their downside Can even set up with Belly Drum or Work up if you’re crazy enough or find a good setup for it SUPER frail. 105 HP ain’t sh*t with 55/55 defenses, Can’t even really take field-boosted resistances. Flare Blitz also eats away at its HP Really One-trick. Darm comes in, Nukes, and probably dies. Zen mode is terrible. Don’t use it. But you knew that already 95 Speed isn’t fast enough for it to sweep most of the time Braviary Big Bird here is a Surprisingly Bulky Attacker, which is pretty rare for flying types Gets Brave Bird + Roost as egg moves, which are both quite good. Superpower is really good coverage, and also gets STAB on Return if you need that 123 Attack is pretty big coupled with its high-power moves. Roost lets it heal up damage and lose the flying type for a turn which can give it some longevity in fights. Braviary isn’t a Tank, it’s got some heft to it, but it isn’t going to take a prolonged beating well. Most of its tanking comes either from EVs, Roost, or both. 80 Speed is basically the rest stop between Kinda Slow, and Kinda fast. It’ll outspeed the slower half and get outspeed by the other. Ambipom A.K.A definitely not Cincinno Comes with Skill Link (Forced) and Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Fake Out STAB Return makes up for lack of Tail Slap 100/115 offenses isn’t bad at all! Is kinda a meme king of sorts, just give it a King’s Rock and you’ll see what I mean Has some other Wacky sets like Technician with Double-Hit as the STAB or a real wacky Baton Pass set, but those are mostly inferior to what it his initially Real bad defenses with 75/66/66 defenses and No resistances Sans ghost immunity Can get walled pretty easily by Certain ghosts types and virtually all Steel Types. Politoed?- All Hail the Rain Lord! The earliest weather setter if that’s your thing Rain is the most versatile Weather, helping out Water Types as well as Electric and Steel Poliwag is Connor’s worst Enemy with Water Sport/Early Rain Dance Good utility with Hypnosis/Perish Song Politoed’s Stats are average Across the board, it’s not super bulky nor does it hit hard. Has to choose between Evolving before Tristan or stay Poliwhirl until 48 for Hydro Pump Is really only useful long term if you like the idea of a rain-setter. Doesn’t really do well as a standalone Water type. Roserade Basically a free Grass Starter Gets a guaranteed 3 perfect IVs and comes early Boosted EXP gain is always nice Good movepool provided you evolve it into Roselia Quick with moves like Giga Drain, Grasswhistle and Toxic spikes coming pretty quick Roserade can tutor to get Grassy Terrain, which is always good Good stats basically trading some of Venusaur’s defense for more speed and damage Aggron Aggron will be referred to as “The Biggun” for the rest of this write-up. Also answers to “Big Ron” The Biggun comes immediately with Iron Head and Rock Slide, which are great STABS to have, especially so early Has a great matchup against like half of Aderyn’s team and she’s no joke. 70/180 defense with Steel/Rock means The Biggun laughs at most physical attacks as long as you don’t Punch ‘em or shake the ground. The Biggun’s very scared of Earthquakes Base 110 Atk means The Biggun is hitting hard. Great abilities all around with Sturdy letting it always survive a hit, Heavy Metal for stronger STAB In Heavy Slam, and Rock head if you somehow get Head Smash on it. Steel Rock gives it some crazy resistances, but some horrible weaknesses to some common offensive types being Ground Fighting, and Water It’s special Defense is exploitable with 70/60 being on the frail side Mamoswine Strong Beefy Attacker A natural Earthquake user at lvl 46 that gets some nice Ice moves and priority. 130 Atk is pretty hefty letting its attacks pack a punch (tusk?) 110/80/60 lets take some hits, but it’s far from bulky 80 Speed isn’t fast, but it’s basically dead average, which is pretty good when you wallbreak like Mamoswine Ice STAB is pretty middling without breeding, which is more of an investment than it is in Reborn/Rejuv Lacks good coverage or utility for the most part. Mostly relegated to spamming STABs and Priority (But it’s what its good at.) Ludicolo?- All Hail the Rain Sweeper! Surprisingly good movepool if you’re willing to wait getting things like Giga Drain/Nature Power/Hydro Pump/Rain Dance naturally, though you have to be aware of when to evolve it both times Swift Swim can make it really fast (It can even Outspeed Mega Lop if you’re lucky with IVs or nature. Can Set up its own rain or work with Politoed to make it a fast sweeper Weird, but good typing gives it few common weaknesses Stats are pretty middling, only one that hits 100 is Special Defense, and it can’t boost its offenses Has to evolve weirdly late to get all its moves. Lotad needs to evolve at 30 to get Giga Drain and Rain Dance, and Lombre at 44 for Hydro Pump. Butterfree/Vivilon? Butterfree is a potent win-con sweeper that can hit basically everything for Neutral with its Ability First things first. Run Tinted Lens, it’s what makes Butterfree viable at all, The Accuracy isn’t worth more than matchup consistency Butterfree’s claim to fame is Quiver Dance, which is often considered top 3 setup moves in the game, arguably the best. Tinted lens lets Butterfree’s STABs hit everything for neutral. Hurricane Butterfree is currently not available, and might not be for a while if ever (It’s TR dependent in gen 8) 90/70 would be pretty bad, but one QD lets it shift matchups, especially on the special side Sleep Powder is great at filling out the last slot, potentially letting it set 1-3 Quiver Dances Bug/Flying is lol defensively, and 60/50/80 is super trash defenses 70 Speed is quite slow for what it wants to do. Butterfree either has to outspeed a mon, or facetank and land sleep in order to set up, usually you need more than 1 turn of setup, depending on the Trainer Pretty bad at going through routes as it’s offensive presence is defined by QD Almost laughably bad before getting Relevant STABS and QD Quiver Dance at 47 requires 2 Rare Candies before Tristan, which I think is both of the one’s you have if you complete all the quests (Including the one that asks for a rare candy) Basically all the above applies to Vivillon as well, who has the same availability with some diffs. Vivillon is faster at base 89/ with better Physical bulk at 80/50 but considerably worse special bulk, even at +1 with 80/50. Hurricane is more damage than Air Slash by like 40 points, but with far more bad matchups because of no Tinted Lens. It’s considerably worse IMO, especially with no Sleep Powder before Blackview Sleep Powder is RNG. The chance that you hit (assuming you outspeed, and get off 1 QD is a tiny bit over 50% B-Tier Spoiler Scolipede?+ Very Much a feast or famine Pokemon Speed boost is Speed boost, it’s a great ability Natural Baton Pass means it can pass its boost and help slower team mates sweep or outspeed fast boss threats like Tristan’s Lopunny and Emily’s Manectric 112 Base speed is already fast before the boost, circumventing on of Blaziken’s core problems. Iron Defense and even agility let it pass even more boosts. Scolipede has a pretty terrible earlygame, and takes a while for it to ramp up 60/80/60 Bulk isn’t great at all. Luckily Iron Defense can put in work against physical threats, but it’ll fold to special. Scolipede’s movepool is ass. Bug/Poison is pretty mediocre offensively, and it doesn’t even get a good Poison move as of now. It can Toxic stall kinda well I guess, but that’s not really reliable in actually important fights. Somehow has 4MSS. Baton Pass + Protect/Iron defense is already 2 slots, and it basically needs Megahorn if you want to carry the big lug through routes, so It has to choose between Return/Double-edge, Toxic, or the second set up move. Hard to sweep with its movepool and poor coverage Scolipede Right now is really to be used more supportively, enabling stronger teammates to sweep, cuz he ain’t cutting the mustard right now Scolipede still has longer term potential, but it’s not likely things like Swords Dance and EQ are coming quickly down the pipe. Toxicroak Croak’s claim to fame is its great early moveset and mayyyybe its availability Coming with Low Kick and Ice punch is nothing to sneeze at. Those are great the whole game, though Low Kick starts out kinda weak fighting NFE mons. Pretty neat Level up Movepool with Poison Jab and Sucker Punch coming to accentuate its early moves. Good abilities in Poison Touch or Dry Skin. Croagunk is kinda terrible early on. It’s stats are terrible and it doesn’t do much to bosses, Good luck doing anything against Aderyn, Maybe it can beat Gligar if you evolve it before, but probably not It’s stats are pretty middling, 106/85/86 isn’t winning any awards these days, and its defenses are quite bad at 83/65/65 Overall Croak is good, not great at the moment. Maybe Cedric will give us its Mega one day, so wait and hope Toady! Pyroar?+ Pyroar is kind of middling imo, but it does hold a niche in its Normal STAB Pyroar has good offenses at 109/106, and its STAB moves are pretty spammable and work surprisingly well together Good STAB choices in Echoed Voice, Flamethrower, Hyper Voice, and Overheat/Hyper Beam for nuking. Noble Roar is good early on and is decent, being a rare SPAtk dropping move It’s abilities are weird. They generally favor physical movesets but Pyroar is working with 65 Atk, which is terrible even with boosts. So it’s ability slot is more often than not dead, as Unnerve rarely activates. Pyroar’s bulk is pretty bad, with 86/72/66 leaving it pretty frail Pyroar really only gets Normal and Fire Moves, which is pretty serviceable, but is incredibly vanilla. Gogoat?+ Gogoat is a surprisingly decent Beach Bum, being one of the more solid picks imo Great level up movepool. Probably one of the most self sufficient actually. It gets good STAB quickly, a set up move in bulk up, Coverage (Earthquake, Babyyy!), and utility/sustain options. It’s usually gonna run something like Horn Leech/EQ/Bulk Up/Healing Move which is really useful in a variety of battles. Gogoat has pretty good stats all around, but they’re kinda weird. It’s bulk is 123/62/81 which is pretty good, but it kinda needs investment/setup to really tank. Gogoat does this job pretty well regardless, but it’s something to keep in mind 100/97/61 Offenses are pretty good sans the speed, but you’re never going to go Special Gogoat on account of most of its available moves are physical, so he’s going to be slow, which can be annoying when trying to set up. Gogoat is notably hampered by how terrible Grass types have it in the earlygame, and how ubiquitous Grass types are, even early, if opportunity cost bothers you. I don’t really factor it in that much, but it’s something to consider if you like to plan teams ahead. Overall Gogoat is really solid right now and is probably in the top 3 beach bums for me, but past Duskdog, the balance does even out more in that regard Venusaur Ah, Venasuar… what a classic Venasaur is a solid Grass Starter, though it is a Grass Starter, so the problem inherent to that are there Venasaur is pretty jack of all-trades. 82/100/80 offenses are pretty nice and 80/83/100 defenses are also pretty decent. Pretty decent movepool. Good mix of utility and damage moves. On the utility side, you got moves like Sleep Powder and Leech Seed, and on the offensive side, Petal Dance/Grass Knot and Hidden Power and Sludge Bomb TM are nice. Growth is pretty decent early and really good if you get Sun up Can be played tanky, vanilla or Mega, or offensive thanks to Chloryphyll. Of course you need, Sun for the latter. It’s Mega is available, albeit condiitonally, just don’t be a dick to Ava and you’ll be fine. It’s Grass, earlygame is not great. 4MSS, has pretty decent set options, but has to commit to a build. Manectric Manectric is a solid option starter wise, but has some glaring flaws that knock it as of V5 Manectric is basically early mono-Electric archetype to a fault. Let’s get the elephant out of the room and say that Manectric absolutely crushes Aderyn, especially if you get one with HP Ice, and can trivialize probably the hardest battle earlygame and arguably period right now Discharge at level 30 is really good, letting it hit pretty hard with 30% paralysis 105/105 offenses are really good for when it evolves and lets it keep up for the most part It’s the only Beach Bum atm with a mega if that appeals to you. ATM at least On that note, I do like MegaMane having intimidate because Intimidate stacks well if you have something like Incineroar. It can really debilitate physical threats. Though keep in mind that Megas come really lategame as of V5, but hold promise in future versions. Manectric has awful defenses at 70/60/60, and Electric has pretty rare resistances so it’s not going to take hits well at all. It’s offenses are good, but they aren’t exactly enough to Glass cannon like Darm does and it lacks the versatility that Gren and Ambipom would have Manectric’s movepool is really bare. It’s claim to fame is having strong Fire Coverage, which is non-existent ATM. It really just spams Discharge, and maybe Hidden Power and can get walled a lot because of its limited moves One other thing that is weird about Manectric is that it’s the only beach bum with a slow EXP growth curve, which means it kind lags in levels during the Kuiki arc. This can be annoying because that Arc often feels like a solo run up to Shiv, and Manectric can’t really do Jack to grass types like Shiv’s Roselia. It’s a minor note, but it can make the beginning a bit more frustrating. Electivire Electabuzz is essentially your life-insurance against Aderyn Getting Trade Exp boost is always a nice bonus Elekid’s line is one of the few mono electric’s that pack good coverage, with Low kick initially, and Fire Punch as Tutoring once fully evolved. Has some pretty good utility with Light Screen, Screech, and Thunder Wave too. Electabuzz (and I do mean Electabuzz) is pretty fast sitting at 105 Speed and 95 SPAtk is nothing to scoff at this stage. Electabuzz and Electivire are both pretty frail, clocking in at 65/57/85 and 75/67/85 respectively. Electivire is kinda infamous for losing 10 speed when it evolves as well, which is a pretty big deal going from 105 to 95 Electivire honestly might not be worth evolving if you’re strapped for link stones as it goes straight to its Attack stat which it almost never uses pre evolution, not to mention the EV/nature distribution problem that comes with such mismatched stats. Overall Electivire is like a decent sidegrade to standard Electric Types like Raichu and Manectric, solving some problems, while getting a new set of unique problems to deal with. Magmortar Magmortar is Electivire’s eternal rival, so much so that they completely forgot about Jynx and went and evolved without her. Rather mean of them, to be honest Magmortar serves as a good, albeit standard Fire-Type Magby comes pretty early in the old Ranger room in Vejyr and evolves soon after Magmar has good stab options with flame burst early, and upgrading to Lava Plume to Flamethrower to even Fire Blast at a good pace. 105/95 offenses as Magmar are pretty good, and becomes 125/85 after it evolves Bet you noticed the speed reduction, though. This is again annoying, but isn’t as tragic as Electivire, especially since Magmortar actually can use the big damage upgrade. Good utility with moves like Confuse Ray and Smokescreen if you like RNG cheese. It’s Pokemon. Everything is RNG cheese Fire Typing is pretty good field effect wise, getting boosts from Grass field against grounded mons, and Magmar can set forests and grassland alike on fire. Magmar is equally frail as Electabuzz at 65/57/85 and not much better than Electivire at 75/67/95. This isn’t helped at all by its middling speed either Magmar really doesn’t get anything in the way of coverage atm. It’s all Fire, all the time. Expect it to not preform well when counter-typed Magmarizer either comes really late or forces you to cough up 30 credits, neither of which are ideal. It’s about as greedy as Garrett, but at least it pays you back (Seriously Garrett better be paying rent for locking us out of our basement or there are gonna be problem problems. ) Magmortar performs well at what it does, but it really only does that one thing well and not exceptionally well. There will be better Pokemon available in the future, but Magmar is a good filler Pokemon or permanent one for what it can do in the earlygame Bewear Tanky Attacker with pretty nice Bulk and Offenses 125/60 Physical offenses is heavy. It’ll probably go last, but it claps back 120/80/60 Defenses is pretty nice with the big HP and Fluffy Doubles is physical defense against most physical moves (not all). Watch out for the new Fire Weakness Normal/Fighting STAB is pretty great With Return and Hammer Arm being a great go too. Payback/Shadow Claw for coverage rounds out Pain Split is some fun jank healing Ready for Tristan and can tank almost everything Lop throws out Hammer Arm can’t really OHKO as reliably as Yama’s CC if you care about that 5% Chance North of Addenfall means it can’t be gotten quite as easily as Yama, but it’s better long-term as of V5 imo Scrafty (Don’t buy the credits one!) Scrafty’s a neat bulky attacker It’s got deceptively great defenses at 65/115/115 Great abilities in Intimidate and Moxie, each one letting it play differently. (Shed Skin’s alright) HJK + Crunch is pretty great STAB combo that isn’t resisted by anything 58 Spd is pretty damn slow, so it won’t be outpacing much 90 base attack is only alright without boosts, and I don’t think it gets easy acces to D-Dance like in Reborn. It has to rely on Moxie, which does not synergize with its speed Really bad Fairy weakness to be afraid of Not much in the way of coverage/utility Gigalith (Sand Stream) Super Tanky Rock-Type Absurdly Tanky. Especially with Sand Steam. Before EVS and the such, that’s effectively 85/130/120 Has hefty 135 Atk Sand Stream has surprising synergy with Sand Rush mons like Stoutland, Sandslash, and Worse!Lycanroc Stealth Rock is a rare utility in Deso that, while not as important in-game, is useful to have to help sweepers, especially with breaking sash. Really only has Rock and Normal for offensive coverage. 25 Spd is lol, though the bulk on this bad boy means you won’t miss it much Really shallow movepool in general, aside from moves listed above. I think I used Mud-Slap as a 4th for the hell of it. Shines with the Sand Stream ability, and kinda niche if nothing is there to abuse said sand Excadrill + Gigalith ready for V6 BABEEEEY! Froslass Huh. A lvl 45 Frosslass. Guess I’ll add it to my team. Pretty decent utility mon Pretty fast at 110 speed Good utility moves out the gate with Confuse Ray, Will’ o Wisp, and even Captivate can be useful at times. Destiny Bond at 59 is always lol Requires literally no grinding to be useful when it comes. It’s hilariously at the lvl cap, and you deserve it for trudging through all that snow. Pretty frail with 70/70/70 across the board. It isn’t gonna be taking hits well Pretty wimpy with 80/80 offenses. It’s not going to be hitting hard, like, ever. Blizzard missed again… Froslass is good at what it does, and average everywhere else. But it’s pretty easy to get and requires little effort to slot into teams, so it’s pretty good imo Togekiss?+ it USED to be a nutty Nasty Plot Sweeper until Posty took it away… (as of 5.1 I think) Pretty good utility mon all things considered Gets hella utility moves. U want it? U got it! Charm/Yawn/Wish/Encore are all great picks This is one Chunky Bird. 85/95/115 is great bulk 120 Sp.Atk is great for hitting hard. 80 Speed is pretty great for such a well-rounded Pokemon Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Grass Knot, and Dazzling Gleam are well-rounded coverage offensively 4MSS is pretty apparent here. That’s tough Super Luck and Serene Grace are both great. Hustle is worthless here. Comes pretty late, and at Lvl 1. Pretty late to start up and credit hungry for move tutor Pretty neat all-arounder that can cover different roles Clefable Used to be dummy beefy Calm Mind Sweeper until that got taken away. THANKS POSTY! Clefable is a pretty decent, albeit nondescript all-arounder. 95/73/90 isn’t amazing bulk, but Clef makes it work. 95 Sp.Atk is alright, nothing to write home about, but alright Good utility moves in Sing, Uh… Gravity? Has decent offensive options with things like Moonblast and Grass knot Moonlight, Minimize, and Cosmic Power are good defensive options Has a pretty memey Stored Power set with SP/Minimize/Cosmic Power/-Flex- Which is a cheesy set that is really slow and inconsistent to start up, though it’s fun Comes at lvl 1 and at an opportunity cost. Togekiss seems like a straight up-grade in most aspects Pelipper (25 Credits) Basically a straight upgrade from Politoed, that comes late at Cellia Docks and costs a hefty amount of creditss (S)he be making it rain on you with Drizzle fo shizzle (I’m done) Rain has pretty diverse team synergy Gets moves like Hydro Pump/Surf and Hurricane, which have stupid synergy with it’s kit 95 Sp.ATk is just enough to enable its crazy powerful STABS to go crazy 60/100/70 is pretty decent bulk 65 Spd is pretty slow however Politoed is perfectly serviceable for Rain cores, and doesn’t cost 25 credits, and has near perfect availability A pretty good, albeit expensive mon, even out of its niche M-Meowstic Premier Screen Setter. That’s all it should do Prankster lets it set up screens with priority! Comes at too high a level to get light screen without Relearner Listen, Meowstic sets up screens, That’s all it does well. None of its stats matter, it’s bulk is 74/76/81 Meowstic can be slotted anytime, even underlevelled just to set up screens or maybe weather. Charizard Charizard is a decent starter pick that is kinda held back by its movepool Charmander is famous for getting Dragon Rage early, which often trivializes earlygame by 2 shotting basically everything Stat wise 84/109/100 offenses are pretty good, it much prefers is special moves in this form 78/78/85 defenses is basically just squeezing past frail and into mediocrity Charizard’s movepool is really standard Fire stuff. It gets all it would really want STAB wise, but kinda lacks in relevant coverage It has coverage options, they’re mostly physical though, which can be pretty annoying, but not unmanageable. Fire in general seems really good in Deso, being relevant in a surprising amount of boss fights (Tristan and Amelia come to mind) Dragon Rage does not see as much use in Deso past Vejyr because of how fast things scale. Anyone ever notice that Shiv looks like that one guy who bodied Ash Gren? He even has the Charizard. Haha... or is it!? Ninetales(31 Credits) Here’s your sun-setter… over ⅔ of the way through the current game Nonetheless, Ninetales is the earliest sun setter available (Torkoal’s available, but near the very end) Ninetales stats are pretty not great imo. 81 Sp.Atk is chump change for an attacker. 100 Speed is fast, but not really fast 73/75/100 Defenses aren’t really good enough to specialize in. It’ll take special hits well though. Now sun is good, if you got the guys that benefit from it, but ate acquisition is pretty tough when compared to setters like Politoed and Gigalith It’s movepool is pretty decent. Fire Type with Psychic coverage is decent, and it even gets nasty plot, but it’s stats hold it back, even with +2 I feel. Will-O-Wisp, Confuse Ray, and Captivate are pretty nice on the utility side. Credits cost is high, especially since Cellia Manor is pretty demanding with Credits Is really only relevant with Drought. There are better Fire Types available earlier, and without such a cost sink Torterra Torterra is the best Sinnoh Starter (J.K. They’re all goated) Torterra here is very similar to Gogoat, but with the added Ground typing, which is more a less a plus on Torterra’s punch card 109 Attack is pretty strong, and can get boosted with Curse 95/105/85 is pretty beefy, especially coupled with Torterra’s tank-centered movelist Lvl 32 Earthquake, you know what it is. Leech Seed and Synthesis are both amazing sustain. Torterra can become hilariously tanky with Curse + sustain options. I think the event one comes with Sneaky Pebbles? which is pretty decent utility, though I generally just recommend a weak Sturdy mon for all the times you actually need rocks. Grass is ass in the earlygame of Deso, this is a problem even for the best greenies 4MSS Hariyama Underrated Fighting Type that has your back against Bunnicula when you need it Comes with good moves and gets Close Combat @ 40/46 depending on if you evolve it early (46 needs a rare candy use if you can spare it) 144 HP is massive enough to shore up 60/60 bulk All it’s abilities are quite good. Hella slow at 50 Spd It’s gotta eat a hit Can’t facetank too many hits despite its HP, it won’t really stand up to repeatedly being hit/targeted. Scaling into endgame, it’s largely a down-grade compared to other Fighting Types like Lucario and Conk, who’s basically a straight upgrade. Hariyama does have some important availability advantages above the others Seismitoad Pretty good Water Type option Water/Ground is a well known great typing to have 105/75/75 is alright, but made better by virtue of its typing 95/85/75 offenses are middling, but they’re usable. It’ll annoyingly be using that lower Sp.Atk however Access to pretty decent movepool with Muddy-water/Hydro pump being great water STABS, has some good coverage options with Sludge Bomb TM and Drain Punch. Mud Shot is weak, but the Speed control is pretty nice. All of its abilities are decent. It can set its own rain with Rain Dance for Swift Swim, if you want. Water Absorb is a free immunity, and Poison Touch is kinda a nice added bonus at times, I guess. The other two are a lot better though. Really wishes it could have a better ground move Donphan Ok, Why the hell is Donphan only 3’7”!? Donphan is a pretty potent EQ bot that comes right before Emily in Hardened Mountain Lvl 43 Earthquake means it gets EQ almost immediately after aquisition 120 Atk throws out some heavy ass EQs 90/120/60 Bulk is great physically, not so much specially. Though Sturdy does offset this a bit Sturdy allows it to always be able to hit back, and EQ hits back hard ALL IT FUCKING HAS IS EARTHQUAKE! It can get Knock Off if you want to invest credits or find catch the uncommon Pre-evo Donphan in Hardened Mountain, but that is basically the only worthwhile coverage move. Seriously, I was using Scary Face as a flex slot Really Slow at 50 speed Even at this point, there are better Ground Types like Flygon and Mamoswine Donphan kinda just temp jobs on most teams as a result C-Tier Spoiler Walrein Walrein is probably the most balanced of the Beach Bums stat wise, but It has a lot holding it back. Walrein has good bulk (110/90/90) as well as decent offensives with a 95 SpATK to ensure it isn’t gonna be passive Spheal has some good matchups against Connor and Aderyn, which is always a plus at that stage of the game, however the good matchups essentially end past that, It’s movepool is quite shallow, lackluster even. Ice moves are nice early on, but past Blizzard/Surf, it’s not getting any better. Having to rely on Brine and Aurora Beam for STAB until After Tristan is rough in practice Some good Walrein is held back by its typing being pretty tame,not being standout offensively or defensively for the most part. The same goes for its stats, they’re balanced, but neither side is gonna win any awards It’s best move from now and into the future (most likely) is gonna be Blizzard. Good ol’ inaccurate Blizzard Overall Walrein is solid on paper, but it’s master of none stats, it’s limited matchups, and bare bones movepool leaves it wanting compared to other options both between Beach Bums and other Water and Ice tpes Pangoro?- Probably the worst Beach Bum available Pangoro is an incredibly middling Pokemon, being handily outclassed by most other fighting types and pandas are dumb anyways. To start with positives, Pangoro has a good attacking Stat (124, and Parting shot, while kind of late, is nice utility that is, more or less, exclusive to it as of now. All of its abilities are pretty good, allowing for flexibility In that regard. Crunch and Sky Uppercut are good stabs (the latter being boosted by Iron Fist a bit) and Bullet Punch gives it some much needed priority. Pancham’s earlygame is largely unimpressive, except for performing decently against Shiv, and is dead weight in most boss fights, especially Aderyn. Pangoro is slow, clocking in at a measly 58 and doesn’t have great bulk to stand against that, making do with 95/78/71 Dark/Fighting is usually a great offensive typing, but Pangoro’s stats don’t make it work well, and exacerbate the glaring weakness to Fairy types. Fighting Weakness can be annoying to deal with, and can’t do as well against Tristan as other Fighting types available Losing handily to Lopunny and Wigglytuff along with Staraptor. Usually I try not to focus on opportunity cost, but Croagunk is free, is available within the same time frame, and doesn’t force you to choose between better options. This thing just stinks, maybe it should go to D for Don’t pick this thing. Raichu?- Pichu tried to come and help you, but the poor thing got lost in the woods Available in Celeste Grove (The screen with Scarlett’s bow. It actually has a diff. encounter table) Raichu comes immediately after Aderyn, which is a shame given it’s like the biggest break for most Electrics that come before it 90/90 Offenses are alright, but it comes as a Pichu, so it should have Nasty Plot 110 Speed is pretty darn good for Plotting Nastiness (gross) Can do pretty well against fights like Amelia, whose team is rather susceptible to Electric/paralysis (sans Cacturne). Guaranteed 3 IVs is always nice Access to Discharge/Thunderbolt (through tutor) and Grass Knot and maybe Hidden Power make for pretty nice coverage Raichu’s Bulk is pretty pitiful with 60/55/80. It’s lopsided towards special defense, but it’s still bad even on that side. Thunderstone a ways off in an Addenfall Quest. Behind a lvl 56 Raikou. Have Fun (It’s usually not too hard) Mightyena Has one cool ass Mega Mightyena is a regular Jobbermon that has an aforementioned Cool Mega, that lets it be cool in the current lategame 90 Atk and 70 spd!? Gee willikers! 70/70/60 defenses!? Wow! Intimidate and Moxie are actually both pretty great abilities though. Early on, Moxie lets it be a somewhat decent Route Cleaner up until right before Silver Rise, when it , like the Player, falls of pretty hard After that becomes a Intimidate Bot, with a weirdly good set of support moves like Yawn/Taunt/Swagger/Scary Face I should note that you can just skip dealing with it earlygame and just catch one in Dreamscape, which Is probably recommended if you only care about the Mega Mighty-Meg gets 125/125 physical offenses on top of Strong Jaw, which helps with coverage and STAB alike. It’s abilities pre-mega both synergize well too. Spiffy Ghost/Dark typing, which while redundant Offensively, lets it shake off two weaknesses Defenses are exactly the same though. Mightyena is around for all of 2 important fights, (maybe like 4 if you count sidequests) where it does decent, but not amazing Mightyena is far from good rn, but it is surprisingly not incompetent for all stages of the game. If you want to use this thing, knock yourself out Quagsire?+ Basically Seismitoad with worse stats, but better moves Same great typing, same great taste 95/85/65 is alright, but considerably worse than it could be. It’s really it’s typing and moves carrying it 85/65/35 offenses is pretty bad. It has to use both phys and special as of now which is kinda annoying Great utility moves in Yawn and Mist/Haze. Mist in particular is a short field change, which can be helpful at times. Silvally Porygon-Z Sceptile Blastoise Gardevoir (30 Credits) Gallade (30 credits) Ampharos(12 Credits) Shiftry (Chloryphyll) Typhlosion?+ Feraligatr?- Meganium?- Samurott Emboar?+ Chesnaught Decidueye Late Tier Spoiler Excadrill Hydreigon Eevee Conkeldurr And That's what I've got so far. This is a community list, so any submissions and feedback is appreciated (you don't have to do the icon thing to post a rating). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Jaggi Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 I feel like you're undercutting Scolipede a little bit. It can't properly sweep teams with its movepool right now, but the fact that it can delete fast threats and then Batton Pass out to boost the next Mon is worth a lot. Using it only for either half of that is imo a waste. Scolipede is the only natural Baton Passer that gets something to pass to the next mon just from staying on the field and with natural access to Protect it gets a lot to give real fast. Earlygame also isn't quite as bad if you use Rollout at the right time, although the rather late first evolution hurts and Aderyn is gonna make you suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 I think that whenever I use Scolipede, Baton Pass is really contingent on having good mons to baton pass to. A lot of the best sweepers don't necessarily need Scolipede to work, though they do appreciate it, and others just don't cut the mustard to sweep, even with boosts. Deso threats are fast. We're talking at least one 130+Speed pokemon on most boss fights from Addenfall to Blackview. Scolipede either wants to dedicate to making the best sweepers stronger, or to work in between (Scolipede doesn't have the tools to sweep by itself currently). The former doesn't really highlight Scolipede as a great standalone party member as it works best in context with other Pokemon. In the latter, it just doesn't work nearly as well as others. Bug typing is pretty horrible offensively, even with Megahorn. You're going to face resistances, and you're only good coverage option is non-STAB Normal. Scolipede kinda slogs through routes and dungeons because of it being highly specialized. If you want to dedicate to Baton Pass, you nix coverage for Protect + Iron Defense, which makes Scolipede even more reliant on team coverage. If you want it to perform better alone, you take normal coverage or even Toxic, which makes it less consistent as Baton Pass support. Now Scolipede's niche is strong. But it is a niche, it's pretty average outside of passing to the MVP. Scolipede is markedly less consistent than Dodrio, and especially DuskDog. Even for 3rd best Beach Bum is debatable with the others sans Pangoro being arguably more consistent alone. I think it's fair to say my list is pretty carry-biased, cuz that's how I think V5 is kinda structured until, like, Addenfall. Scolipede's biggest flaw is that it's not a carry imo, it helps your carries get better, but that isn't super priority for me. I do think It's interesting, and probably deserves more playthroughs to see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoknight Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 20 hours ago, Norm said: Pangoro?- Probably the worst Beach Bum available I like this list Edit: 20 hours ago, Norm said: pandas are dumb anyways. yes they indeed are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamteehee Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 I'll share a few thoughts on some Pokemon I used in my playthrough: Vivillion: A solid early game mon and an incredible sweeper midgame once it gets quiver dance, compound eyes-boosted sleep powder and bug buzz (and later, compound eyes-boosted hurricane). Since it's a bug that evolves incredibly early, it's quite strong early game with a 410 BST at level 12 (you might think it gets destroyed by the fire gym, but I found it to be the second best pokemon on my team after rockruff in the fight.) It falls off somewhat after, until it gets all the tools it requires to sweep, which given the weirdish level pacing of desolation, happens pretty quickly. It is somewhat sleep turns dependent on sweeping, but with a small amount of luck, it has one of the highest highs of any sweeper. I'd put it in A. Panpour/Simipour: The two things simipour has going for it is that it (in the form of panpour), learns scald at lvl 22 and acrobatics at lvl 31 (although both are only as panpour, having to delay evolution to get acrobatics is definitely annoying), which are two good moves that are really strong at that point in the game. (It's also one of the best pokemon for thief+recycle+fling cheesing, but I'm not even sure if that's in Desolation). I'd put it in D. Alolan-Muk: An incredibly strong typeline, solid stats, and a very strong level up movepool. The primary downside is that it comes pretty late in the game (I believe it is in the Cellia sewers, although my memory is a little hazy). Probably belongs in B. Decidueye: One of the better starters, with a very good level up moveset, with access to good priority and U-turn (although U-turn is definitely a lot worse than it is in competitive). It gets nasty plot by level up, which is also a really good enabler for a special or mixed set, but isn't nearly as good as it is in other games since there is no access to shadow ball yet, so you're stuck with omnious wind for special ghost STAB. Downsides are that it gets kind of destroyed by the first gym, and it's hidden abilities aren't that great. I see it as a B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yumil Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I'll throw in what I said elsewhere about bewear, donphan and Raichu Bewear's a pretty good candidate for High B, imo. he's got great availability, (and getting him sooner wouldn't do it too many favors considering Connor and Aderyn would trounce him) and it's kit is surprisingly good in deso -great bulk with fluffy, strong stats, and he gets access to payback and aerial ace easily, meaning he gets to check more stuff than fighting/normal would suggest -available for the tristan vibe check and the battle against Amelia earlier Donphan's a strictly worse mamoswine but mamoswine is legit great so donphan still get's a good deal of job done. really good damage output, can learn ice shard through breeding and makes a decently good use of it, sturdy's good for guaranteeing he gets a hit in on a threat, and an all around good defensive bulk. Not a carry, obviously, but a good addition to a team that needs something to spam earthquake with. Also comes right before blackview, so it's guaranteed to get in some good work against Emily. I'd suggest mid B tier Raichu is fine. I'd say High C tier, mostly because it's not available for the first battle against Aderyn which would make it substantially better for early game carry, but he's a good electric type able to pull it's weight. Outside of just all around being a decently fast electric type capable of contributing for most fights, he has a thing for ruining amelia's day, as once you deal with the cacturne, pretty much everything in Amelia's team gets 2HKO by him and he always gets a free hit in because crobat U-turn goes brrr. He's also really good for the rematch against Aderyn, for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrona Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 MEOWSTIC: On the entry for Meowstic-M, the phrase "it just sets screens" is tossed around a lot but screens are extremely crucial and dramatically change the way the game is played. Meowstic is hands down the best screens setter in the entirety of Desolation as it is and opens your hands up to thousands of new strategies. If the concept of "making the game noticeably more easy" is the basis on which the list is formed, Meowstic-M makes ddance Flygon and SD Dodrio exponentially more powerful, letting the two set up in the faces of far more Pokemon than they could do without. Personally I would even put this Pokemon in the A-tier SERPERIOR: The argument for Serperior being ranked so low is because of how slow it is to ramp up but theres actually an incredibly easy solution to this problem: don't evolve it. The first two gyms of Desolation are commonly known as the two hardest fights in the entire game and they specialize on FIRE and FLYING. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say even if you did evolve Snivy, the Pokemon would end up useless even as a Servine or Serperior. If you skip the evos and beat Aderyn, the level cap immediately jumps up to level 45 while Leaf Storm is available at 43. This means you're left with one of the most powerful OU threats after the 2nd gym which single-handedly 6-0s 80% of the game. I would place this Pokemon in HIGH A-tier, maybe even S-tierDODRIO: Dodrio is arguably even better than Lycanroc-Dusk and should be ranked similarly imo. Lycanroc struggles from lack of coverage and lack of moves to set up, preferring to launch massive bursts of damage off the rip. Dodrio on the other hand, gets access to flying and fighting coverage, an incredibly terrifying combination of types as well as Swords Dance by level. Even moreso when combined with screens, it is not an uncommon occurence to see Dodrio under the protection of screens to get to +4 and wreck shop. GOGOAT: I'm not a massive fan of the comparisons between Gogoat and Torterra and think Gogoat is a huge contender for an A rank spot. Gogoat's Grass Pelt is unironically a humongous help in the early game with how common grassy and forest terrains are throughout the entirety of the game. Bulk Up and Horn Leech are a terrifying combo that under certain conditions can 6-0 fights by itself. Leech Seed for the earlier fights and eventually Milk Drink add up to an unkillable tank steamrolling Pokemon after Pokemon. Gogoat shines where Torterra falls short in that its healing methods are far more reliable and Gogoat doesn't suffer from a hilariously bad defensive typing in Grass/Ground (Mono grass is only slightly but very noticeably an improvement). I would put this mon in A-tier but I can understand possibly leaving it in high B-tierFROSLASS: Froslass is... underwhelming and should probably be moved down a lot more. Froslass' major appeals are in its ability to support more than its offensive presence. Blizzard and Shadow Ball sound great on paper but coming off of an 80 base SpAtk oftentimes is just not enough. Furthermore, one of its greatest appeals in Spikes is entirely unavailable. Froslass' biggest current appeal is being a fast Pokemon with Destiny Bond and maybe the occasional revenge kill with Shadow Ball. Maybe a solid C-tier for meMANECTRIC: Manectric. I used a Manectric in Desolation as my beach starter and was one of the worst decisions of my life. Its speed tier is only slightly above average and its damage is in the same tier as Froslass (Reminder that Blizzard is 40 power higher than Discharge). The best coverage it gets is Hidden Power for 99% of the game and Snarl near the END OF THE GAME. There is a slight power increase when you get access to Snarl and Manectite but thats far too late and really it ends up painfully mediocre for 99% of the game. What Manectric becomes is a Pokemon that can barely pick up a kill on frail waters/flyings and occasionally paralyze a Hydreigon here or there. C-tier sounds more suitable a spot imoPYROAR: While Pyroar is painfully M E H, it is one of the very few glass cannon fires. I oftentimes consider it a lesser version of Delphox which, does not sound like high praise, but its better than nothing. I'd put it in the same league as Seismitoad in terms of usefulness. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (New Additions?)ARCANINE: I can't get away from this Pokemon. In every single fangame its available ridiculously early and consistently a threat. In terms of weaknesses, it does require the trainer to wait until level 45 for Flare Blitz and Crunch and ESpeed (I'd recommend delevelling it to 34 with candies before using the Fire Stone) but when you get there? Amazing team support with Intimidate, a juicy 110 attack stat, deceptively good bulk, ESpeed, whats not to love? Gotta be an A-tier monBUTTERFREE: Why is this Pokemon being brought up? Its nothing but a humble early route bug right? WRONG. Butterfree is a terrifying sweeper that with the right support, 6-0s fights hands down. Tinted Lens makes its dual stab of Bug/Flying near impossible to wall and access to Sleep Powder lets it effortlessly begin those 6-0 sweeps. It is rather reliant on team support however and would pair nicely with speed control or screens but that potential to exploit the ever-loving crap out of windows of opportunity is undeniably horrific. Contender for low A-tier or high B-tier. Dependent on exploiting windows or abusing opportunities opened up by the other 5 members of your team (think Reflect or Bulldoze) and running the much more powerful Tinted Lens set comes at the risk of losing out on the reliability of Compound Eyes (f12 is your friend with this Pokemon)VIVILLON: The user-friendly version of Butterfree. With a much easier base stat to work with and Compound Eyes, it has a much easier time exploiting windows in your opponent's teams. Compound Eyes brings Sleep Powder and Hurricane to 98% and 91% accuracy respectively (Wide Lens brings both to 100%). The problem with Vivillon however is that its peak strength is noticeably lower than that of Butterfree's. With this dual stab, you are far more susceptible to being hard walled but this Pokemon is great for those fights that get completely stomped on by the sheer overpowered nature of the move Quiver Dance without the big risks of Butterfree. There is the glaring issue of Sleep Powder being only accessible thru move relearner which means it only manages to catch a break upon reaching Blackview, but I would still place this Pokemon hovering around the same area as Butterfree if not only a little bit lower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 We've got an update, ladies and GentleRons Rises Dodrio to S Serperior to A, citing Khrona's write-up Meowstic to A Pyroar to B Drops Walrein to C Maybe Aggron to B New Additions Butterfree to A Donphan to B Raichu to C Bewear to B Mightyena to C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna. Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 I think clefable is close to blaziken tier - bulk, sustain, moonblast to lower special attack, fake tears to lower special defense by 2 into moon blast can mean death. Magic guard makes him immune to burn/toxic/weather effects. And with leftovers and moonlight/solid defense and hp stats + ivs and nature, it will just keep healing, thunderwave for abuse. Clefable is ou on smogon for a reason. Even with a greninja and a soon to be mega aggron, I consider the clefable to be the star the team. This terror has easily smacked down each of the other main characters mega evolutions and team easily and would be broken if I could give it calm mind (+spAtk + spDef) I wouldnt need to use fake tears on every new pokemon if I stacked 2-4 calm minds. Even without access to softboiled and calm mind, it's pretty strong. I just finished aurora's fight and this guy took out 3-4 of aurora's pokemon by itself. I named him Boss lol. - Moonblast - Fake Tears - Thunder wave - Moonlight Been using fairy, steel, dragon core - clefable, aggron (slotted for mega aggron in team), flygon and then I have greninja (special attacker, hidden power fire, expert belt) and elecvire electric type might slot in gligar too. only thing Im lacking currently is a way to deal with ghost types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna. Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 As for greninja, we dont have access to dark pulse etc but you can still assemble a nasty protean special attacker being squishy and not even being able to take alot of chip dmg, you usually send him later in the fight to outspeed and clean things up with an attack boosting item like expert belt, or a life orb if you can steal one and you can switch him into a psychic attack since it does no dmg. he gets stab + the bonus dmg from item and changes his resistances to suit the fight I bred a decent one with hidden power fire and ivs in the 30s with one stat 25+ - surf/hydro pump (hits fire, ground, rock), resists fire, water, ice, steel - hidden power fire (hits ice, bug, grass), resists fire, grass, ice, steel, fairy - extrasensory (hits fighting and poison) - bounce flying (lmao didn't have a good 4th move, so I kept this here) would prob replace with a dark pulse if I had it, shrugs to hit pyschic and ghost types Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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