Question about the AI

[quenty]

Hi, maybe I don’t exactly understand how the AI works in this game but I found something a bit odd in one the new content battles in V13.

 

Spoiler

In the fight with Geara in axis high factory, I would use a switch in a garchomp with a life orb on his mega gengar to do super effective ground damage. This always results in him using hypnosis which almost always hits on his field. 

Then I swapped the life orb for a lum berry to avoid being put to sleep but then he would always use shadow ball and never hypnosis.

So what I was wondering is, does the AI know what items we give our pokemon without relying on an ability like frisk or a text telling the item like an air balloon or a seed?

[antharios]

8 minutes ago, quenty said:

Hi, maybe I don’t exactly understand how the AI works in this game but I found something a bit odd in one the new content battles in V13.

 

  Hide contents

In the fight with Geara in axis high factory, I would use a switch in a garchomp with a life orb on his mega gengar to do super effective ground damage. This always results in him using hypnosis which almost always hits on his field. 

Then I swapped the life orb for a lum berry to avoid being put to sleep but then he would always use shadow ball and never hypnosis.

So what I was wondering is, does the AI know what items we give our pokemon without relying on an ability like frisk or a text telling the item like an air balloon or a seed?

I know for a fact that the AI knows what Ability your Pokemon has, it also knowing what item you are carrying seems likely to me

[Mef]

Yeah I've noticed this too. His chandelure only uses will-o-wisp on my haxorus when it isn't holding a lum berry. 

 

I've also found that when both my pokemon and the opponents pokemon faint on the same turn, the pokemon my opponent sends out differs based on what I send out.

[quenty]

1 hour ago, antharios said:

I know for a fact that the AI knows what Ability your Pokemon has, it also knowing what item you are carrying seems likely to me

 

Thanks, I didn’t know about the abilities. It would probably make sense then for it to know the items as well.

[Mionee]

As a general rule of thumb, the AI doesn't know which attacking move you will pick* or what you will do in general**, but the AI knows everything about your moveset, your stats (even your IVs and everything), your items, yadda yadda.

 

*at the very least it doesn't know enough to use sucker punch accurately.

**It does have a degree of info, since its move selection can vary depending on whether you stay in or switch to another pokemon. It definitely doesn't know which pokemon you're sending in though and absolutely doesn't predict it  - the only case I encountered this was a chandelure that would switch out if I used any move and stay in if I swapped to another pokemon. 99% of the time it doesn't take that into account at all and behaves the same way regardless.

 

[MhicKy]

56 minutes ago, Mionee said:

As a general rule of thumb, the AI doesn't know which move you will pick* or what you will do in general**, but the AI knows everything about your moveset, your stats (even your IVs and everything), your items, yadda yadda.

 

*at the very least it doesn't know enough to use sucker punch accurately.

**It does have a degree of info, since its move selection can vary depending on whether you stay in or switch to another pokemon. It definitely doesn't know which pokemon you're sending in though and absolutely doesn't predict it  - the only case I encountered this was a chandelure that would switch out if I used any move and stay in if I swapped to another pokemon. 99% of the time it doesn't take that into account at all and behaves the same way regardless.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I do think the AI knows which move you'll pick, a good example was when I was fighting the Rift Gyarados

I started the fight with Boltund to paralyze it with Nuzzle, it works but then my Boltund survives the Phantom Force with 6HP, then Gyarados uses Shadow Sneak to KO him BUT if I decided to heal Boltund with a Hyper Potion he then changes it's move from Shadow Sneak to Waterfall (dealing enough damage to keep Boltund on the red) if I keep using potions he will keep using Waterfall and leaving him in the red, if I decide to attack he then uses Shadow Sneak to attack and KO my Boltund first, which other explanation there is to this other than "the AI knows"? If it didn't knew then when I healed Boltund it would just carry on using Shadow Sneak and allow my Boltund to get another turn instead of keeping this cat & mouse game where my Boltund's KO is inevitable..

[Mionee]

3 minutes ago, MhicKy said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I do think the AI knows which move you'll pick, a good example was when I was fighting the Rift Gyarados

I started the fight with Boltund to paralyze it with Nuzzle, it works but then my Boltund survives the Phantom Force with 6HP, then Gyarados uses Shadow Sneak to KO him BUT if I decided to heal Boltund with a Hyper Potion he then changes it's move from Shadow Sneak to Waterfall (dealing enough damage to keep Boltund on the red) if I keep using potions he will keep using Waterfall and leaving him in the red, if I decide to attack he then uses Shadow Sneak to attack and KO my Boltund first, which other explanation there is to this other than "the AI knows"? If it didn't knew then when I healed Boltund it would just carry on using Shadow Sneak and allow my Boltund to get another turn instead of keeping this cat & mouse game where my Boltund's KO is inevitable..

Yeah, I think it knows if you did something *other* than an attacking move (ie switch, item, whatever). But it defo doesn't know which *move* you picked (move as in, an attack command only). I play with no items so I'm not too sure how much it adapts to those, I'll trust your word that it does indeed know when you heal.

[Dausk]

Yeah, this is a gripe I've been having with the AI. Geara used to switch in his Gengar to focus blast my Magnezone, but after giving it a chople berry, he swapped to his Chandelure instead. I just think that the opponent automatically knowing your entire set up is a faulty manner of balancing the game.

[Seel The Deal]

3 hours ago, Mionee said:

As a general rule of thumb, the AI doesn't know which move you will pick* or what you will do in general**, but the AI knows everything about your moveset, your stats (even your IVs and everything), your items, yadda yadda.

 

Yeah, I think it knows if you did something *other* than an attacking move (ie switch, item, whatever). But it defo doesn't know which *move* you picked (move as in, an attack command only). I play with no items so I'm not too sure how much it adapts to those, I'll trust your word that it does indeed know when you heal.

AI knows if you're going to attack or set up. I had a plan for a certain V13 fight involving a certain shiny possessed weapon where my Absol would use Swords Dance as it used "Protect" expecting a guaranteed Knock Off or Sucker Punch kill, but ended up having to use a seed to get the boost instead as it would always attack if I used Swords Dance raw. AI will also play around Sucker Punch to some extent as well, but I don't really know what extent.

 

Honestly, never mind the move-reading, never mind the perfect predictions, what I hate the most is that it knows items. It makes status and type berries completely useless (and many other items less useful) apart from intensely-planned AI manipulation (which nobody is going to do casually) as well as just generally feeling awful to fight against because it feels like all your planning was just a waste and all that matters is brute-forcing the fight until things go right. This becomes even more apparent in V13 as...

 

Spoiler

there are several areas along the 3 pathways where, even if you used the Interceptor's Wish, it doesn't really matter because you're locked into a fight with no access to a PC and just have to brute force it with 6 mons which are probably ill-equipped for the fight. At least the one before Angie was reportedly fixed? Woo, I guess?

 

It's just bad design. It feels awful, it's rule- and immersion-breaking, and it leads to many frustrating situations that could otherwise be solved with smart item usage and strategy.

[FateVoid]

@Seel The Deal I complete Agree!!!

[TIP]

It 100% knows the move or at least the type of move

 

Spoiler

In the Geara fight, the A-Parasect would go for Shadow Sneak everytime i attack it when i was in range for a kill, but when i did other things it magically used other attacks

 

[vivaCH]

I can confirm it knows the items you have. Against Geara i always lead with a Greninja with Sea Incense and he always switched his krokodile. But when I came with a Waterium-Z , he decided not to switch for some reason, so I could KO it easily with surf lol.

But yeah I agree it is just unfair that the AI knows what item we have.

[reaper.]

the rant about ai going on here? count me in. the ai is so broken. ughh it literally knwos every thin g about your pokemon. the geara fight has me on the edge of just throwing away my laptop ffs.

[ThiroSmash]

16 hours ago, quenty said:

Hi, maybe I don’t exactly understand how the AI works in this game but I found something a bit odd in one the new content battles in V13.

 

  Hide contents

In the fight with Geara in axis high factory, I would use a switch in a garchomp with a life orb on his mega gengar to do super effective ground damage. This always results in him using hypnosis which almost always hits on his field. 

Then I swapped the life orb for a lum berry to avoid being put to sleep but then he would always use shadow ball and never hypnosis.

So what I was wondering is, does the AI know what items we give our pokemon without relying on an ability like frisk or a text telling the item like an air balloon or a seed?

When I was using Snivy (yes Snivy) up against Narcissa's Driflim, it would always go for a hypnosis even if I was holding a chesto berry. However, if I led with chesto Liepard it would just double hp fighting regardless of item. I think the AI somehow measures how worth it would be to burn your berry.

[H4xRUs]

14 hours ago, Mionee said:

As a general rule of thumb, the AI doesn't know which move you will pick* or what you will do in general**, but the AI knows everything about your moveset, your stats (even your IVs and everything), your items, yadda yadda.

 

*at the very least it doesn't know enough to use sucker punch accurately.

**It does have a degree of info, since its move selection can vary depending on whether you stay in or switch to another pokemon. It definitely doesn't know which pokemon you're sending in though and absolutely doesn't predict it  - the only case I encountered this was a chandelure that would switch out if I used any move and stay in if I swapped to another pokemon. 99% of the time it doesn't take that into account at all and behaves the same way regardless.

 

I'm not so sure about that. I was fighting Melia's Azumarill (in v13) on intense (with items and set battle style, my save file was a holdover from v12) and my strategy was:

 

-Lead with Crobat to Taunt Snorlax.

-After Snorlax KOs Crobat, send in Swampert to beat Snorlax with Lovely Kiss gone.

-When Hydreigon comes in, switch to Scizor. Scizor has a Magical Seed and Swords Dance, so that's 4 attack boosts combined with STAB Technician Bullet Punch (definitely the MVP of that fight lol).

-Aegislash comes in on Swords Dance. I SD again to make sure I can break through whatever she has later, taking the Sacred Sword and Bullet Punch Aegislash next turn.

-Melia sends in Azumarill on a very badly damaged Scizor with max Attack, which she knows has Bullet Punch.

 

My first instinct is to heal, because the Azumarill's probably going to have Aqua Jet. But it doesn't use Aqua Jet. It uses Liquidation, knocking Scizor to about a third of its HP. I heal again, to make sure this isn't just a weird fluke or anything. Azumarill uses Liquidation again. I go "ok, guess it actually doesn't have Aqua Jet". I click Bullet Punch, get Aqua Jet'd and Scizor faints.

Attempt 2: Same situation with Scizor and Azumarill. I hel off the Liquidation damage 5 times, and Azumarill still waits until the one turn I attack to Aqua Jet.

 

tl;dr: The AI can at least read whether you're going to attack or not (which explains why I kept getting bodied by Reina's Honchkrow in v11) but I'm not sure if it knows exactly what move you'll use.

[Juice]

16 hours ago, ThiroSmash said:

When I was using Snivy (yes Snivy) up against Narcissa's Driflim, it would always go for a hypnosis even if I was holding a chesto berry. However, if I led with chesto Liepard it would just double hp fighting regardless of item. I think the AI somehow measures how worth it would be to burn your berry.

 

I just fought Narcissa with Chesto Cinderace and Drifblim went for Hypnosis turn 1 to burn the berry yeah. It can't really go after the Cinderace with anything so it figures it'll just put it to sleep.

 

(btw I swept the rest of Narcissa with Magical Seed Coalossal, that was fun. Strapped both Fire Spin and Flame Charge - Smack Down for Chandelure - on that bad boy and turned the field straight against her)

[Blacephal]

Oh yes, that lovely all-knowing AI. Your items, EVs, IVs, abilities, moves and even your sanity is not safe.

I'm in with saying this is a not really fair, but i have to say it can be really fun to break if you know what to do, i swept souta using a raichu with hidden power water, agility, thunder, encore and lightning rod.

...

WELL, most of the times, because you'll see more often than not, that the AI will decide between two options (like a coin flip?). When i was fighting against Flora, she usually used hexing slash in front of an abomasnow and then switch to ferrothorn predicting ice shard, but sometimes she left mismagius on the field even if i repeat the same accions i did the battle before resetting, and with no change in my team 

This new update is great, but it has some really ''sour'' flaws


Also, sorry if i misspelled something or stopped making sense mid sentence, i'm not a native english speaker, but i'm eager to learn from my mistakes in practice!

[ThiroSmash]

20 hours ago, H4xRUs said:

I'm not so sure about that. I was fighting Melia's Azumarill (in v13) on intense (with items and set battle style, my save file was a holdover from v12) and my strategy was:

 

-Lead with Crobat to Taunt Snorlax.

-After Snorlax KOs Crobat, send in Swampert to beat Snorlax with Lovely Kiss gone.

-When Hydreigon comes in, switch to Scizor. Scizor has a Magical Seed and Swords Dance, so that's 4 attack boosts combined with STAB Technician Bullet Punch (definitely the MVP of that fight lol).

-Aegislash comes in on Swords Dance. I SD again to make sure I can break through whatever she has later, taking the Sacred Sword and Bullet Punch Aegislash next turn.

-Melia sends in Azumarill on a very badly damaged Scizor with max Attack, which she knows has Bullet Punch.

 

My first instinct is to heal, because the Azumarill's probably going to have Aqua Jet. But it doesn't use Aqua Jet. It uses Liquidation, knocking Scizor to about a third of its HP. I heal again, to make sure this isn't just a weird fluke or anything. Azumarill uses Liquidation again. I go "ok, guess it actually doesn't have Aqua Jet". I click Bullet Punch, get Aqua Jet'd and Scizor faints.

Attempt 2: Same situation with Scizor and Azumarill. I hel off the Liquidation damage 5 times, and Azumarill still waits until the one turn I attack to Aqua Jet.

 

tl;dr: The AI can at least read whether you're going to attack or not (which explains why I kept getting bodied by Reina's Honchkrow in v11) but I'm not sure if it knows exactly what move you'll use.

Adding to this, Sucker Punch users are also very inconsistent. Usually they'll go for it when they see a kill or if they're at very low hp and slower than you. Problem is, when you bait the Sucker Punch with a status move, it's a coin flip whether they'll keep using it or not. Or at least that's been my experience thus far. Sometimes they run out of PP, other times they switch moves immediately. It happened to me a lot against a Grimmsnarl who would sometimes just click False Surrender on my Rock Polishing Graveler (don't remember the trainer of the Grimmsnarl sorry).

[Milotic]

The AI 100% knows your team (items. moves, abilities included), its exetremely frustrating because it (mostly) bases the turn on whatever move you go for (whether it be setting up, switching out, attacking, etc.) but it can also be manipulated as well. The AI will prioritize the game plan first unless they just have a clear advantage over you (meaning they can outspeed and ohko or deal significant damage to you). In my battle vs Madelis, whenever I led Snorlax, the crobat set up Sunny Day (prioritizing the gameplan for the mega houndoom, Cinncino, and Salazle in the back), anybody else I led with it would just outspeed and kill with Brave bird.

 

The double battle vs Risa for another example of manipulation. I had to give my 2 pokemon the resist berries just so that broken jigglypuff wouldnt go for super effective moves vs me. I initially gave it to them so I'd have a chance of living the hit lol, but the jigglypuff just opted not to use those moves (it ultimately helped me win the battle, as opposed to having other items equipped)

 

So yea its annoying as hell, but can be manipulated if you plan accordingly

[DemICE]

AI knew your ability/items and could calculate damage from both sides ever since the AI was made for Reborn years ago.  The only new addition i think is knowing status restoring berries so it doesn't give a free turn.   
The AI is also extremely inflexibly consistent in its options so as long as you know what it will do depending on your decisions,  you can capitalize on that and solve the puzzle.  Oh and you also know its sets too after a couple tries so in the end things equalize. 
This is the closest the AI has ever been to be playing almost like a human. But because the  concept of metagame knowledge and  prediction doesn't exist for it.  It has to emulate the human thought of  "usually gengars have focus blast for coverage so lets be careful with hard-switching a normal type"  with other ways.  In fact AI doesn't  know  any moves you haven't revealed.  Its something more simple. It simply knows what is the highest potential damage you can deal with your current moves on each of its pokemon without storing the info of what moves are they.  Which is better than watching it constantly sacking mons by hard-switching them to supereffective coverage.  In terms of dealing with a situation i want to think a human brain with knowledge still has the devastating advantage.

[Krantz]

22 minutes ago, DemICE said:

AI knew your ability/items and could calculate damage from both sides ever since the AI was made for Reborn years ago.  The only new addition i think is knowing status restoring berries so it doesn't give a free turn.   
The AI is also extremely inflexibly consistent in its options so as long as you know what it will do depending on your decisions,  you can capitalize on that and solve the puzzle.  Oh and you also know its sets too after a couple tries so in the end things equalize. 
This is the closest the AI has ever been to be playing almost like a human. But because the  concept of metagame knowledge and  prediction doesn't exist for it.  It has to emulate the human thought of  "usually gengars have focus blast for coverage so lets be careful with hard-switching a normal type"  with other ways.  In fact AI doesn't  know  any moves you haven't revealed.  Its something more simple. It simply knows what is the highest potential damage you can deal with your current moves on each of its pokemon without storing the info of what moves are they.  Which is better than watching it constantly sacking mons by hard-switching them to supereffective coverage.  In terms of dealing with a situation i want to think a human brain with knowledge still has the devastating advantage.

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