Is Normal difficulty a bit too hard?

[Arthesia]

Disclaimer: This based on my experience playing "Set" and usually beating story/gym battles within 5 tries and a roster of 8-15 pokemon.

 

Might be controversial but... normal difficulty feels a bit too hard? Nearing the end of ch14 now but I assume ch15 is similar.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the puzzle approach to the battles. It's something I fell in love with playing Reborn,

That said, as the story progresses it starts to detract from my enjoyment of the game narratively.

Mostly because there's rarely a story battle you can go into blind with a strong team (but still knowing how the field works) and hope to win.

 

I don't mind that for the first half of the game you need to exploit everything you can. You're the underdog and this is a core part of the story.

However, after training strong pokemon and crafting a balanced team I hoped that I could rely on them to win with more consistency.

But I still find myself heavily pushed toward cheese tactics and hard-counters.

 

It's mostly because specific pokemon are so optimized for their field that they shut down any strategy of your own that isn't a direct counter.

 

I've fallen pretty hard for this game so I'm seriously considering making a difficulty tweaks mod (if there isn't already).

e.g. tweaking Valarie's Dewgong (replace Stockpile so that it can be wall-broken), or Geara's Typhlosion (change from Timid to Modest so it can be outsped), etc.

Would probably add an option that adjusts all trainer IVs from 31 -> 20.

 

 

 

 

 

[Blontary]

I had the same impression starting anew with v13. I had 2 save files at the end of v12 but decided to get a new game to better recall the plot, and jeez am I having hard times in battle. I always try to use new Pokémon, so at first I thought it was just me not used to them or that some Pokémon MUST be used in the early game, but things ain't getting better. As you said, tough fights were always a thing (damn amber in v10 or 11 I don't remember), but there were many gimmicks to win. V 13 introduced a new difficulty which I'm not sure I'm appreciating. I like challenges, but some fights I won just for pure RNG and weren't satisfactory at all. 

[CaptainMomo]

I feel like Rejuvenation got a massive boost in difficulty and no one really realized this until after it's release. Like, yes, Rejuvenation has always been hard, but now it's gotten to a point where even with debug, even with giving myself pretty much anything I can get in-game (perfect IVs, good natures, EV training, the works), I basically have to pray to RNGesus to get anywhere, and I'm still making my way through old content (I'm on Chapter 14 with...little over 136 hours.

 

And that's with Debug and cutting out the middle man. Imagine how much more time I'd have to take if I had to grind. Hell, I beat V12 on Intense faster than this.

 

I like the game, and I'm sure the develops will roll out patches that'll address problems (please just give us back EV training at the start, I do not understand why they moved it.), but as of now...mm. I wonder how casual mode is, cause I may just have to say to play that for the time being.

[MhicKy]

I feel like the difficulty spikes waaay too much by around chapter 9 and beyond..
But the reason isn't because it's hard, it's because the game cheats.. Since the gym leader Erik you already see other leaders using megas, one of the reasons why in v12 many people were asking where the MegaRing at is because of this, many upon many other gym leaders already using mega evolutions (and even some random trainers) and you? Nothing.. At least not until the very end of the game.. That on top of the fact the AI knows when you're attacking, using an item or switching on top of knowing your moveset while we need trial and error, the fields are another thing too, with weird conditions that massively aid the gym leader while screwing with any strategy you might had cooked up are just another weight placed upon your back, shoutout to the v12 Haunted Field on Narcisa's Gym which was so OP it got nerfed on v13..

It isn't hard, the game is just rigged to make you fail.. Which is why victory is so sweet, I tried playing casual and I just didn't had the same satisfaction..

[yeslahrt]

2 hours ago, MhicKy said:

I feel like the difficulty spikes waaay too much by around chapter 9 and beyond..
But the reason isn't because it's hard, it's because the game cheats.. Since the gym leader Erik you already see other leaders using megas, one of the reasons why in v12 many people were asking where the MegaRing at is because of this, many upon many other gym leaders already using mega evolutions (and even some random trainers) and you? Nothing.. At least not until the very end of the game.. That on top of the fact the AI knows when you're attacking, using an item or switching on top of knowing your moveset while we need trial and error, the fields are another thing too, with weird conditions that massively aid the gym leader while screwing with any strategy you might had cooked up are just another weight placed upon your back, shoutout to the v12 Haunted Field on Narcisa's Gym which was so OP it got nerfed on v13..

It isn't hard, the game is just rigged to make you fail.. Which is why victory is so sweet, I tried playing casual and I just didn't had the same satisfaction..

 

I am playing v13 on Normal. I'm at the end of Chapter 4 trying to figure out Narcissa. I'm playing 100% vanilla.

 

I'm starting to enjoy the overall experience a lot less because of the constant need to use cheese tactics and hoping that I get a good RNG match. The fact that I am having to rely and consider on the RNG at all makes me feel that the balance of the game is not right. As of now, I have no ability to use the EV training facility, I can't buy revives, there's no reliable access to berries (that I have found), and I have not found any battle items that could influence my tactics. If the bosses/gym leaders have their optimized fields, optimized IV pokemon, fantastic movesets to counter anything that you throw at it, and are omnipotent/clairvoyant to the point they somehow know your items, when you're going to switch, even at the start of the game (and it only gets harder as you progress), then for a vanilla play through, players probably need the revives and access to better items at the very least. No one should be omnipotent either. I feel this would be where the game needs to be adjusted if the devs wanted to keep the specialized fields (which is something I like).

 

So far, the only change I have made game wise is that I went from 'set' to 'switch' to see if that could help combat some of the AI's ability to know when I'm going to use a different pokemon after I KO one of theirs. I did this to make an attempt to not rely on cheesing everything and test out different tactics, but it only helped with so much. TBH I'll probably drop the difficulty to easy just so I can have a good experience.  If normal is this difficult, then easy should still see some of the same difficulties.

 

Edit: I would also like to add that I am incredibly disappointed that I can't even evolve the Feebas until halfway through the current content. If the forms are rare to encounter, it would be a delightful to be able to evolve a gift pokemon early since it seems like it could be very useful in some situations. That could be a nice quality of life change and a great way to reward players as they grind. I've put in almost 60 hours and I'm only at the end of Chapter 4. Who knows how long it will take me to get to the point where I can actually evolve it.

Edited July 31, 2021 by yeslahrt

[CaptainMomo]

1 hour ago, yeslahrt said:

Edit: I would also like to add that I am incredibly disappointed that I can't even evolve the Feebas until halfway through the current content. If the forms are rare to encounter, it would be a delightful to be able to evolve a gift pokemon early since it seems like it could be very useful in some situations. That could be a nice quality of life change and a great way to reward players as they grind. I've put in almost 60 hours and I'm only at the end of Chapter 4. Who knows how long it will take me to get to the point where I can actually evolve it.

You can evolve it once you get the Aquamarine Ore in the cave leading to Teila Resort: it's behind a rock you need to mine and use Blast Powder on. Trade the Ore to someone in Kristaline Town (after you beat Angie), and you'll get a Prism Scale. Have Feebas hold it, then use a Link Heart.

[Arthesia]

2 hours ago, MhicKy said:

It isn't hard, the game is just rigged to make you fail.. Which is why victory is so sweet, I tried playing casual and I just didn't had the same satisfaction..

 

I totally agree, which is why I don't want to play on casual. It feels like normal is very close to ideal but tends to take things a step too far.

Perfect example (for me) was Souta's Mega Pidgeot.

 

Expectation: His ace is a special attacking flying/normal pokemon? My Tyranitar was born for this. There is no better pokemon I could possibly have for this fight.

Reality: Strong Winds negates Sandstorm. Flying loses weakness to Rock. Smack Down requires two uses to change the field. Heavenly Wing negates Dragon Dance and restores Sky Field. Pidgeot enters with +50% Defense.

Solution: Use a Ditto.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Arthesia

[VirtualizingProductions]

Even in casual mode, I had a fair share of difficult battles, like certain Rift Pokémon and certain major characters (almost rage quit on Angie & Cera, took a break from recording, and destroying them off-screen before continuing). While most of the AI trainers have Pokémon with 10 IVs and 85 EVs across the board, a few of them are fully EV trained. It should still be manageable, but give the opponent a chance to setup, and they can eventually sweep your entire team.

[pizzagod13]

6 hours ago, Arthesia said:

Disclaimer: This based on my experience playing "Set" and usually beating story/gym battles within 5 tries and a roster of 8-15 pokemon.

 

Might be controversial but... normal difficulty feels a bit too hard? Nearing the end of ch14 now but I assume ch15 is similar.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the puzzle approach to the battles. It's something I fell in love with playing Reborn,

That said, as the story progresses it starts to detract from my enjoyment of the game narratively.

Mostly because there's rarely a story battle you can go into blind with a strong team (but still knowing how the field works) and hope to win.

 

I don't mind that for the first half of the game you need to exploit everything you can. You're the underdog and this is a core part of the story.

However, after training strong pokemon and crafting a balanced team I hoped that I could rely on them to win with more consistency.

But I still find myself heavily pushed toward cheese tactics and hard-counters.

 

It's mostly because specific pokemon are so optimized for their field that they shut down any strategy of your own that isn't a direct counter.

 

I've fallen pretty hard for this game so I'm seriously considering making a difficulty tweaks mod (if there isn't already).

e.g. tweaking Valarie's Dewgong (replace Stockpile so that it can be wall-broken), or Geara's Typhlosion (change from Timid to Modest so it can be outsped), etc.

Would probably add an option that adjusts all trainer IVs from 31 -> 20.

 

 

 

 

 

I play set no items, no mega/z-move and yeah, I feel this game can be unfair difficulty sometime. Without good nature/IVs/EVs the game becomes near impossible and even with them it is still difficult, with most story battles being a puzzle of needing to figure out the proper order to send my mons out in, and when to sacrifice them and so on. I think the only fight in the new update that I beat first try was the 

Spoiler

Past MC fight. 

 

That being said I think the difficulty is fine for the most part.

Spoiler

The only fight in the recent update that was unfun difficulty was Saki, since it stacks so much nonsense at once. Had to cheese that one with a seeded sheninja... 

 

[MhicKy]

5 hours ago, Arthesia said:

Solution: Use a Ditto.

 

 

Yeah, the reality is that Ditto with Impostor ends up becoming UBER in Rejuvenation, it's quite ridiculous..

@yeslahrt, the funny thing is that Narcisa used to be harder in v12, her field got nerfed.. It used to weaken dark moves by 50% before so the only thing that could do super effect on her Ghosts were other ghosts but every ghost you capture up to this point are slow (Yamask, Duskull, Shupet) so going Ghost vs Ghost on her was a terrible idea.. The only way I ever managed to beat her on v12 was with MASSIVE STACKS OF CHEESE!! By getting a full team of Normal Types and changing the field into a blessed field using Flash (Which I had to farm on the casino to get), now her field is quite fair in comparison, it no longer weaken dark types but you can also no longer turn it into a blessed field with Dazzling Gleam or Flash, you just temporarily turn it into a normal terrain..

[hepengild]

I play set mode, intense, no items.

 

I completely agree. I love a challenge, but the necessary preparations that are required for battles can be kind of immersion and fun breaking. However, I refuse to play on a lower difficulty - I enjoy it nonetheless, but I recognize and am distraught by the flaws. The difficulty curve, due to the nature of Pokemon, feels a bit artificial. I don't get to really use the Pokemon I'd like to - I get together the Pokemon that beat the specific gym, cheese the gym/wait for RNG, and then move onto the next gym. Rinse and repeat.

 

For Venam v13, I grab a few poison types and make sure to get the Seviper. For Keta, I grab Swoobat and Hariyama. Narcissa, just trying to get past the Drifblim by cheesing with Flash, Hariyama is great against Marianette, along with stored power Xatu. Pyukkumuku helps a lot against Valarie. Wide Guard Throh against Angie. Shell Smash Crustle against Zetta-Geara.

 

In v13 specifically, certain Pokemon have been moved to a later point, like Swoobat and Lycanroc. This just means that battles that could be managed easier before, like Angie and Zetta-Geara, are now harder.

 

It truly comes down to just cheesing the gym leader with a mix of hard countering them, removing their field, and then praying for RNG. It can be really mentally draining.

 

Got the winning team? Yep. Now I just need to wait for RNG to work with me.

 

This is especially true with the special field effects, making certain Pokemon types completely ineffective against the gym leader. A field that makes fire no longer super effective against grass types? Well, now my team is full of bug, flying, and ice types. In most cases, you'll have to cheese with some obscure Pokemon you don't care about.

[Samurai]

Same as the above post, I play Intense/set mode. 

 

I feel removing the EV training rooms was incredibly harsh on players who play this way. It's challenging enough some good mons like Rockruff were moved till a lot later in the game, I can welcome that. Moving the EV rooms so far back in the game though makes this difficulty nigh on impossible. In battles that are already incredibly stacked against you, every ev placement counts in those clutch moments, I would love for the devs to bring it back in a later update. People will EV train either way, it just wastes peoples time for no reason by grinding 100s of pokemon for evs.

 

Any advice I could give is Swoobat is definitely an mvp in the early game. Breed one with natu for stored power, along with simple ability and calm mind (lvl 29) it can sweep some early gyms.

 

Hariyama is also great in the early game, surprised it wasn't moved till later. Pacharisu is nice for using nuzzle and spamming electro ball. Seviper can be useful for the first couple of gyms too.

[shadow of mars]

I just hate it that they removed the option of ev training early and moved the egg move tutor to when the game is almost over. I loved playing intense mode on v12 but this time these changes are mostly needlessly frustating. Like people said, I can't really use anything I like and just catch that one specific pokemon that counters the gym

 

No way to get a least a few good ivs like many other hackroms have is also a pain, I don't even see the problem with having that since good/decent ivs are not even enough to win any battles

Edited August 1, 2021 by shadow of mars

[yeslahrt]

5 hours ago, MhicKy said:

@yeslahrt, the funny thing is that Narcisa used to be harder in v12, her field got nerfed.. It used to weaken dark moves by 50% before so the only thing that could do super effect on her Ghosts were other ghosts but every ghost you capture up to this point are slow (Yamask, Duskull, Shupet) so going Ghost vs Ghost on her was a terrible idea.. The only way I ever managed to beat her on v12 was with MASSIVE STACKS OF CHEESE!! By getting a full team of Normal Types and changing the field into a blessed field using Flash (Which I had to farm on the casino to get), now her field is quite fair in comparison, it no longer weaken dark types but you can also no longer turn it into a blessed field with Dazzling Gleam or Flash, you just temporarily turn it into a normal terrain..

 

Interesting! A friend rec'd me this game very recently so this is my first time playing Rejuventation and I have no past experience to compare and contrast with. I can't even imagine that kind of pressure for this fight, man. I personally play for the story and the unique take of the devs world, so for me, I'm not satisfied with cheesing my way through everything or relying on RNG to make/break every major battle. No wonder I see topics about Narcissa from v12.

[MhicKy]

That's why a lot of people go with debug mode..

While """cheating""" would be considered bad in any other game, in Reborn and Rejuvenation that's just a "yeah, I get it" situation.. Using debug mode to make your pokemons have perfect IVs, fully EV trained with the ability you want and the correct nature, at first glance, sounds bad but in reality you're just cutting the grind to get that anyway, as long as you're not creating pokemons you shouldn't have or spawning items, no one condemns the use of debug mode.. I mean, I could either use debug mode to get perfect pokemons and focus on the story OR I could completely halt the story, farm enough AP to get all the EV Training Rooms, spend HOURS in the daycare running back and forth to get pokemons with descent IVs and then fully EV train them just for the CHANCE that my strategy MIGHT work in the gym and, if it doesn't, repeat..

I even suggested in the past for v13 to completely disregard IVs so every pokemon you encounter in a bush would be already 31IVs in everything so the only thing we needed to focus on is EV training, getting the nature and ability we want, which would cut a massive part of the grind but it didn't happened so.. Debug mode it is then!

[DemICE]

I see a lot of complaints about EV training rooms.  As far as I know  they become available after Valarie.  Which is earlier than when the bosses start having some mons with specialized spreads.   Is that not enough?

[CaptainMomo]

11 minutes ago, DemICE said:

I see a lot of complaints about EV training rooms.  As far as I know  they become available after Valarie.  Which is earlier than when the bosses start having some mons with specialized spreads.   Is that not enough?

I don't think you can head back to East Gearen to use them until later in the game at that point, and even then, you need to unlock the gates with the cards you get at the AP Center. Plus, in the last version, they were available at the start of the game (though you still had to unlock a few, you at least had HP and Speed rooms to use).

 

This is actually one of my biggest problem's with Rejuvenation as a whole: it got a lot harder, but it didn't give us the proper tools to handle this increase in difficulty, to a point where it's painfully tedious, even with Debug enabled. I can handle not having certain Pokemon available until later, but when it feels like you need the right Pokemon plus the right sequence of events to happen (and for RNGesus to answer your prayers), it gets old fast, especially when the AI is just a little too good at what it does to make planning out the winning play that much harder. The AI and RNG in particular is probably the biggest offender here: in something like Dark Souls, when I mess up I know it's my fault, I just need to get better at reading the enemy. Here, it feels like I kinda need to just take a dartboard approach and just see what sticks to get anywhere cause either the AI can predict what I do, or RNG is just gonna decide that I don't get to put people to sleep for more than a turn (and it happens more than you think on Normal mode). This isn't a 'git gud' scenario like Reborn, this is 'reset until everything goes right' scenario and it's annoying.

[DemICE]

Well EV training when only one side has it can lead to pretty one sided results, especially since speed is the most important stat.  I have seen a nuzlocke in reborn where someone outsped and oneshot all of kiki's team with fully EV trained primarina of all things (the AI doesn't have EV trained mons till much later).  This isn't something that i would consider healthy.  Basically if i ever made EV rooms available early i would have given attack/sp.atk/hp  but definitely not speed.  thats something i would save for later.

[hepengild]

9 hours ago, MhicKy said:

That's why a lot of people go with debug mode..

While """cheating""" would be considered bad in any other game, in Reborn and Rejuvenation that's just a "yeah, I get it" situation.. Using debug mode to make your pokemons have perfect IVs, fully EV trained with the ability you want and the correct nature, at first glance, sounds bad but in reality you're just cutting the grind to get that anyway, as long as you're not creating pokemons you shouldn't have or spawning items, no one condemns the use of debug mode.. I mean, I could either use debug mode to get perfect pokemons and focus on the story OR I could completely halt the story, farm enough AP to get all the EV Training Rooms, spend HOURS in the daycare running back and forth to get pokemons with descent IVs and then fully EV train them just for the CHANCE that my strategy MIGHT work in the gym and, if it doesn't, repeat..

I even suggested in the past for v13 to completely disregard IVs so every pokemon you encounter in a bush would be already 31IVs in everything so the only thing we needed to focus on is EV training, getting the nature and ability we want, which would cut a massive part of the grind but it didn't happened so.. Debug mode it is then!

 

This is exactly what I've started doing on intense. It feels less like cheating and more like not wanting to submit to the EV grind for hours at a time. I check the gym leader's EVs on the Wiki and set the EVs of my Pokemon to the same amount.

 

I agree with everything else you said. A lot of the time, even if I do EV train and get the perfect IVs, I'm still heavily relying on my RNG. Debug just allows me to actually play the game and experience the difficult battles at a normal pace, whereas I'd be forced to sit in an EV training room for hours/breed Pokemon if I wasn't using the debug. In fact, I *only* have the party debug on my save, meaning the only thing I can edit are my Pokemon's EVs, IVs, Nature, etc. The necessary stat grind isn't fun for me, personally, so I don't subject myself to it - it's not something that keeps me interested in playing the game. I'm sure other people enjoy it, though.

 

 

[hepengild]

To add on to this, the AI definitely read your items. I was testing around with Florin's grass whistle. Without fail, Florin would grass whistle the pokemon who wasn't holding the chesto berry. If the pokemon was out on the field, no matter what, Florin wouldn't waste a turn using the grass whistle on whoever was holding the berry. I was personally a bit distraught by finding this out. I could play around it and still win the battle, sure, but it's kind of distressing to know that gym leaders have this kind of omniscience. I think this may have been already known for a while, though.

[GachaGloop]

I think Rejuv normal is still possible without EV training, so long as you reset for good nature and IVs. At least in early game. I've only recently discovered the wonders of debug mode, which I use to save time on grinding.

 

Sure, it'll take a few tries to figure out which of your mons live what hits, and which of your mons can 1v1 theirs. Definitely still possible, though I admit I would have to rely on rng and hax way more than I think is healthy. But you do what you gotta do.

 

The only times I felt genuinely frustrated were V13 Val and the Geara-Zetta battle. Even then, the former prob could have gone better if I took the time to level some grass types from the area. The latter was just constant soft resetting and testing while dealing with how useless Melia is in that fight.

 

Is it difficult? Yeah. Too difficult? Maybe, but Rejuv wouldn't be Rejuv without that little bit of bssery to keep us on our toes. It also lets us appreciate mons we normally wouldn't look twice at

[yeslahrt]

Dumb question #1: How do I access debug mode?

[MhicKy]

@yeslahrt
Go in this thread and download the first 2 files and place them in the Scripts folder, be aware that it might contain some bugs so use it only for light stuff like changing your pokemons IV, nature, EVs and ability

@hepengild
Yeah I know the feel.. Without debug mode I get stubborn and keep trying a strategy that clearly doesn't work for longer because I dread having to breed another team just for a gym leader since it takes literally DAYS to breed a full team but with debug mode I just adjust the status of pokemon I already caught and level them in the Breeder trainers and easy-peasy get over that gym.. And the first time I discovered that the leaders know which item you had was very early on Narcisa since her Drifblim always uses Hypnosis but when I attached a berry to my lead she would never use it.. Same with her Dusclops using Will-o-Wisp

[pizzagod13]

9 hours ago, hepengild said:

To add on to this, the AI definitely read your items. I was testing around with Florin's grass whistle. Without fail, Florin would grass whistle the pokemon who wasn't holding the chesto berry. If the pokemon was out on the field, no matter what, Florin wouldn't waste a turn using the grass whistle on whoever was holding the berry. I was personally a bit distraught by finding this out. I could play around it and still win the battle, sure, but it's kind of distressing to know that gym leaders have this kind of omniscience. I think this may have been already known for a while, though.

Oh my I hate this shit. It is literally the WORST. At the very least using a chesto berry stops them from sleep hacking you...

[Outside Indoorsman]

Yeah - I actually set the game down to Casual just so I wouldn't have to go back and remake my whole team to deal with Narcissa. This seems to be a major complaint - people love the game, but the bosses are too much of a Skill Gate to overcome without serious work. The only Leader I remember being that tough in Reborn consistently was Charlotte, I think... But that may just be rose-tinted memories, because I know all of them have given me trouble at some point.