The MC's Past [V13 SPOILERS]

[Lucifer Morningstar]

I've just completed both routes of the school of nightmares and am still a little lost on the reveal...or rather not quite a reveal of the MC's true identity. 

In the span of a single series of conversations the MC is referred to as 3 different entities:

 

- "A being from another world"

- "A deceased person inside of a doll"
-  A composite of all of the MCs.

 

The second one is supported by the scene in which the original MC was inhabited and essentially replaced with the Interceptor so what do the other two references mean? 

 

Is the MC character that goes by our chosen name, the interceptor a real person or some kind of fabricated soul and if it's the former will we find out the our actual origins? Our Nightmare Realm was more or less the original MC's past not ours.

 

I've also been pondering how this connects to the scene in which the MC falls into a coma. Did being near that house again trigger the NPC MC to briefly awaken and it was them who did all the freaking out ("KEEP IT TOGETHER"!)? This would match with the meltdown the NPC MC has after we defeat them.

I've never been clear on who the two people are who are conversing in that scene though I am pretty sure neither is us. Was it Adrest and the NPC MC?

 

(funny side note: how awkward is this event for players who chose to keep their MC's original name lol. Come on, there must be some people out there who did right?)

[enderowl]

It was pretty awkward when I used the original name for Aevis, but I just thought it was very funny because of the scene where the NPC of the main character would go into *eternal* sleep and be replaced by the name I chose, which was Aevis. So, Aevis replaced Aevis, lol.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

1 minute ago, enderowl said:

It was pretty awkward when I used the original name for Aevis, but I just thought it was very funny because of the scene where the NPC of the main character would go into *eternal* sleep and be replaced by the name I chose, which was Aevis. So, Aevis replaced Aevis, lol.

 

"Aevis has now replaced #########" 
Lol. Nice. 

[pizzagod13]

3 hours ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

I've just completed both routes of the school of nightmares and am still a little lost on the reveal...or rather not quite a reveal of the MC's true identity. 

In the span of a single series of conversations the MC is referred to as 3 different entities:

 

- "A being from another world"

- "A deceased person inside of a doll"
-  A composite of all of the MCs.

 

The second one is supported by the scene in which the original MC was inhabited and essentially replaced with the Interceptor so what do the other two references mean? 

 

Is the MC character that goes by our chosen name, the interceptor a real person or some kind of fabricated soul and if it's the former will we find out the our actual origins? Our Nightmare Realm was more or less the original MC's past not ours.

 

I've also been pondering how this connects to the scene in which the MC falls into a coma. Did being near that house again trigger the NPC MC to briefly awaken and it was them who did all the freaking out ("KEEP IT TOGETHER"!)? This would match with the meltdown the NPC MC has after we defeat them.

I've never been clear on who the two people are who are conversing in that scene though I am pretty sure neither is us. Was it Adrest and the NPC MC?

 

(funny side note: how awkward is this event for players who chose to keep their MC's original name lol. Come on, there must be some people out there who did right?)

Spoiler

I think the scene is definitely between Adrest and the NPC MC, or maybe just between all of the MC choices, since they are all a part of the MC (There were changes made the game to reflect this twist earlier, specifically on Valor Mountain, you "Gather your fragments" which are all the different MCs.) This is further shown by the NPC MC using the term "we" when they refer to themselves, which doesn't make much sense otherwise. 

 

The real question is how did Crescent screw up so badly to bring back everyone from that class in one body... I guess she was using technology she did not really understand. 

 

As for who the MC is? I think it is supposed to be the player, simple as that.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by pizzagod13

[SAF]

3 hours ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

(funny side note: how awkward is this event for players who chose to keep their MC's original name lol. Come on, there must be some people out there who did right?)

Luckily, I don't. I chose Undertale MC's name (Frisk) with Axel's appearance in my first playthrough, so it's possible to do a bit of headcanoning for how they ended up taking over his body~

[Lucifer Morningstar]

3 hours ago, pizzagod13 said:

This is further shown by the NPC MC using the term "we" when they refer to themselves, which doesn't make much sense otherwise. 

 

I noticed that as well and at first that was a bit confusing since NPC MC does it even before our MC is implanted but

3 hours ago, pizzagod13 said:

The real question is how did Crescent screw up so badly to bring back everyone from that class in one body... I guess she was using technology she did not really understand. 

this clears that up. 

 

She definitely messed with some shit she didn't understand because recall that she was upset when the MC had suddenly shut her out and seemed not to remember her hence her creation of Nancy. 

The entity that had implanted our character said that she'd given Crescent knowledge of our "new" name but apparently of nothing else therefore as far as she is aware our amnesia must be related to the process she used to bring the NPC MC back. 

 

I also noticed something interesting while watching the MC's nightmare realm on YT. If you don't play as Aero, he dies jumping in front of Alian I believe it was to protect her. 
The MC does this same thing for Melia in the post-apocalyptic AU so if you play as Aero which I do, that scene is twice as fitting. 
 

[Dausk]

8 hours ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

- "A being from another world"

- "A deceased person inside of a doll"
-  A composite of all of the MCs.

The entire situation was extremely confusing. To my understanding, the MC is a combination of the Interceptor (the player), Adrest (perhaps the "being from another world" since the world had to be reset for him to emerge), and the souls of all the available MC's (with the chosen character being the dominant one). Considering Ana is playable with the correct code, I wonder how she fits into all this?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

35 minutes ago, Dausk said:

The entire situation was extremely confusing. To my understanding, the MC is a combination of the Interceptor (the player), Adrest (perhaps the "being from another world" since the world had to be reset for him to emerge), and the souls of all the available MC's (with the chosen character being the dominant one).

 

Note: From this point onward, for distinguishing purposes I'm going to refer to the player as 'the Interceptor' and our original counterpart as the NPC MC (even though my mind keeps saying Aero because he's my MC). 

 

This does sound about right. I'm starting to see it lining up.

Crescent somehow ended up fusing together the souls of all of the lost MCs into one presumably as a screwed up attempt to bring back each individual one and then the Interceptor was added to replace that fusion in consciousness. 

 

What still has me puzzled is where did the Interceptor come from? Who are they?

The suggestion that they are from the previous version of the world that was reset could have some merit.

Could the Interceptor have possibly come from the Den of Souls in the 3rd Layer where Nim feeds (maybe one from another timeline)? 

 

I'm not sure where Adrest came into the mix. Originally I thought we were a reincarnation of Adrest like Alieta is a reincarnation of Vivian and Taeilia but because v13 revolves around waking him up inside the interceptor that's off the table. 

 

It's a bit unreasonable for Crescent to be pissed off at the interceptor after she's released from her pod, she knows we have amnesia and is honestly kind of selfish in regard to us but in light of what is revealed of her in the nightmare realm and that it was Clear who had manipulated Nim, I do feel a bit bad about it and kinda wanna get back into her good graces. A little. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Dausk said:

Considering Ana is playable with the correct code, I wonder how she fits into all this?

 

I have read that about Ana, I wonder that as well and what happens in the Interceptor's nightmare realm if you're playing as Ana.

Speaking of Ana, does that sidequest continue in V13 and if so how?

 

 

 

[SoulN7]

7 hours ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

 

I noticed that as well and at first that was a bit confusing since NPC MC does it even before our MC is implanted but

this clears that up. 

 

She definitely messed with some shit she didn't understand because recall that she was upset when the MC had suddenly shut her out and seemed not to remember her hence her creation of Nancy. 

The entity that had implanted our character said that she'd given Crescent knowledge of our "new" name but apparently of nothing else therefore as far as she is aware our amnesia must be related to the process she used to bring the NPC MC back. 

 

I also noticed something interesting while watching the MC's nightmare realm on YT. If you don't play as Aero, he dies jumping in front of Alian I believe it was to protect her. 
The MC does this same thing for Melia in the post-apocalyptic AU so if you play as Aero which I do, that scene is twice as fitting. 
 

The NPC MC (the dominant one) often talks as "me" or "I" in some moments, like when giving us the Interceptium-Z or with Puppet Master, or when Crescent took him back to life. In Puppet Master's fight, he said like "I am Aevis! I am our bravery! We are *interceptor's name*!" I think he knows his friends merged into his soul and he's the only one which can control this merge and talk, but I still like when he's speaking as only himself.

 

Spoiler

Plus, I have choosen Aevis since his new design (black shirt, brown hair and green scarf) and, in the past, I saw him sacrifice for saving Crescent's life, letting her fall into the rift and be the one who will took Nihilego's attack.

 

In short:

MC/Interceptor is an unknown entity from another world who replaces NPC MC in his body, who is aware of having the knowledge of his friends' souls merging into his own soul and he's sleeping into the deeps of our soul/mind, right?

 

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

10 hours ago, S7rife said:

The NPC MC (the dominant one) often talks as "me" or "I" in some moments, like when giving us the Interceptium-Z or with Puppet Master, or when Crescent took him back to life. In Puppet Master's fight, he said like "I am Aevis! I am our bravery! We are *interceptor's name*!" I think he knows his friends merged into his soul and he's the only one which can control this merge and talk, but I still like when he's speaking as only himself.

 

I just finished V13 last night and it's true that in the Puppet Master battle he/she introduces themselves using the name of the body even though they know and acknowledge the presence of the others. This means that even despite the interceptor being the main dominant personality the host MC (I think that might be better than NPC MC) still has dominance of the original fusion. 

 

I'm pretty sure they use 'we' when giving the Interceptium-Z however. "Because we we were cowards, we took 50% your power. It's time we gave that power back."

 

[Calentz]

I'd be interested to see how the Interceptor got involved as well.  I do like the theory that they are from the den of souls.  What I'd like to see is if our interceptor actually had a choice like the MCs did, I mean they're basically accepting a position that would put them in a body/identity that isn't even their own among other things.  Certainly gives people incentive to think twice before accepting such a role.

If the interceptor really is the one who hit the reset button in amethyst grotto, why don't they remember anything and why do Kieran and Clear do?  It'd be wild if it turned out the interceptor is the one who recruited them, and much like Rune who knew her morals and inhibitions wouldn't allow her to make decisions that the puppet master would, did something similar and erased their memory and allowed Kieran and Clear to make certain situations happen in the event the interceptor could not.

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

9 hours ago, Calentz said:

I'd be interested to see how the Interceptor got involved as well.  I do like the theory that they are from the den of souls.  What I'd like to see is if our interceptor actually had a choice like the MCs did, I mean they're basically accepting a position that would put them in a body/identity that isn't even their own among other things.  Certainly gives people incentive to think twice before accepting such a role.

 

That's a good question, did the Interceptor have the same choice that the MCs did? I hope so.

When he gives us the Interceptium-Z, Aero says "because we were cowards we took 50% of your power" but I wouldn't call him a coward.

It's understandable that a soul so emotionally defeated by grief couldn't bare such a tremendous and traumatizing burden that requires you to witness many deaths and broken worlds. One could call it unfair that that choice was even imposed on them. 

 

9 hours ago, Calentz said:

If the interceptor really is the one who hit the reset button in amethyst grotto, why don't they remember anything and why do Kieran and Clear do?  It'd be wild if it turned out the interceptor is the one who recruited them, and much like Rune who knew her morals and inhibitions wouldn't allow her to make decisions that the puppet master would, did something similar and erased their memory and allowed Kieran and Clear to make certain situations happen in the event the interceptor could not.

 

I'm not quite convinced that the Interceptor is the one who pressed the reset button due to  being unable to remember doing so but the brief conversation between Kieran and Clear as we go forth to confront the Puppet Master in which they decide not to step in because the Interceptor's likelihood of success is higher does suggest some form of alliance with the Interceptor.

It's also revealed that they are from an alternate reality, essentially they're an alternate Xara and Jean even though they've apparently never gone by those names.

Considering all the people they've harmed and that their actions suggest that they're against this universe/timeline/whatever I hope they're not working for the Interceptor. 

 

Side note: I hope the interceptor gets scanned in the pod because I'm interested in what the results would say such as what our existential age is. Like how Melia's is 70.

 

EDIT: I just watched this video on YT and it seems Clear and Kieran are affiliated with Team Xen somehow because with a full bad ending calc of 100 they invite you to join Team Xen while you are in your nightmare realm. Neither mentions Team Xen just their fight for "oblivion" but that's Madame X behind them in the thumbnail.  

 

Note: For those who don't want this and are worried about getting it, I got the impression form this video that it's next to impossible if not impossible without either debugging or trying to be an absolute sadistic asshole. 

 

 

[pizzagod13]

19 hours ago, Dausk said:

The entire situation was extremely confusing. To my understanding, the MC is a combination of the Interceptor (the player), Adrest (perhaps the "being from another world" since the world had to be reset for him to emerge), and the souls of all the available MC's (with the chosen character being the dominant one). Considering Ana is playable with the correct code, I wonder how she fits into all this?

You can find a grave in the past near where the surfer dude gives you a vision, that says something along the lines of "Rest in peace our dear friend Ana". So I guess Ana was a classmate that died before Storm-9?

 

As for if the MC really did reset things before? I would say maybe, its possible that something went wrong. We really just don't know enough yet to be sure.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Just now, pizzagod13 said:

You can find a grave in the past near where the surfer dude gives you a vision, that says something along the lines of "Rest in peace our dear friend Ana". So I guess Ana was a classmate that died before Storm-9?

 

That's a logical thought, I do remember that grave. 

[Dausk]

1 hour ago, pizzagod13 said:

You can find a grave in the past near where the surfer dude gives you a vision, that says something along the lines of "Rest in peace our dear friend Ana". So I guess Ana was a classmate that died before Storm-9?

 

As for if the MC really did reset things before? I would say maybe, its possible that something went wrong. We really just don't know enough yet to be sure.

I recall that. I was simply wondering how the entire scene played out with Ana as the playable character.

 

The whole thing about how the reset works is rather vague (ie, What is the "initial point" from where the world restarts). That said, I think the reset of the world predates the game's time by a huge margin, so I don't believe the MC was involved at all. If I had to guess, it would be that Garufan lady who keeps popping up briefly every once in a while.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

4 hours ago, Dausk said:

I recall that. I was simply wondering how the entire scene played out with Ana as the playable character.

Agreed, I'm very interested in how the MC's nightmare realm plays out if you're playing as Ana since the Nihilego attack isn't relevant to her because she's not there. 

 

4 hours ago, Dausk said:

The whole thing about how the reset works is rather vague (ie, What is the "initial point" from where the world restarts). That said, I think the reset of the world predates the game's time by a huge margin, so I don't believe the MC was involved at all. If I had to guess, it would be that Garufan lady who keeps popping up briefly every once in a while.

 

I'm leaning more towards the interceptor having no involvement in the reset as well, I'm not seeing how it lines up with the reveal of their entrance into the game's timeline. 

As for "that Garufan lady who keeps popping up briefly" do you mean Karen? That's an interesting theory that I don't believe is entirely out of the realm of possibility.

[Dausk]

24 minutes ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

I'm leaning more towards the interceptor having no involvement in the reset as well, I'm not seeing how it lines up with the reveal of their entrance into the game's timeline. 

As for "that Garufan lady who keeps popping up briefly" do you mean Karen? That's an interesting theory that I don't believe is entirely out of the realm of possibility.

I apologize for being vague. I was referring to Variya (didn't remember her name, had to look it up). She's the woman who appears alongside Adrest in the flashbacks, and who made the NPC MC the Interceptor. She also appeared before Melia activated her archetype powers in the ruined timeline, and behind the MC during the puppet master fight. The journal in the Den of Souls (which was presumably written around her time) states that Pokemon had become extinct (or something like that). That sounds like a problem that could only be fixed with a reset.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

42 minutes ago, Dausk said:

I apologize for being vague. I was referring to Variya (didn't remember her name, had to look it up). She's the woman who appears alongside Adrest in the flashbacks, and who made the NPC MC the Interceptor. She also appeared before Melia activated her archetype powers in the ruined timeline, and behind the MC during the puppet master fight. The journal in the Den of Souls (which was presumably written around her time) states that Pokemon had become extinct (or something like that). That sounds like a problem that could only be fixed with a reset.

 

Ah, of course. 
I do quite like this logic and since it has been brought to my attention I now believe her to be the best candidate with Madame X as the second considering her first line in the entire game establishes that she remembers multiple occurances of the same event (the sacrifice of Maria). 

[JK’S]

14 hours ago, Dausk said:

I apologize for being vague. I was referring to Variya (didn't remember her name, had to look it up). She's the woman who appears alongside Adrest in the flashbacks, and who made the NPC MC the Interceptor. She also appeared before Melia activated her archetype powers in the ruined timeline, and behind the MC during the puppet master fight. The journal in the Den of Souls (which was presumably written around her time) states that Pokemon had become extinct (or something like that). That sounds like a problem that could only be fixed with a reset.

I just did the ruined timeline a few days ago I don’t remember seeing Variya anywhere, you probably aren’t wrong and it may be just a version change, however when Melia awakes in the ruined past, she has an mental/subconscious interaction and battle with Emma (her blacksteeple alias) and when she awakens , the symbol of the core appears rather than the symbol of the archetype. So I want to know how the Interceptor is linked to the Core (more detail than what’s given in the Archives) and how the Archetype is also linked to the core.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

1 hour ago, JK’S said:

when Melia awakes in the ruined past, she has an mental/subconscious interaction and battle with Emma (her blacksteeple alias) and when she awakens , the symbol of the core appears rather than the symbol of the archetype.

 

That's intriguing. I'm looking forward to when the v13 full game playthroughs I am watching on YT get there.

If she is connected to the core like the interceptor rather than the archetype that most likely explains the Genesis Syndrome which now has me wondering if the interceptor has GS as well.  The characters didn't seem to believe so but I think it's possible. 

[Iamteehee]

I believe (but I might be misremembering), but if you F12 and look at the location during the Melia/Emma encounter, you'll see that's it's called Zeight. This, in conjunction with Melia's dialogue about the obelisk calling out to her at the end of v13, heavily suggests a connection between Melia and the interceptor.

[pizzagod13]

43 minutes ago, Iamteehee said:

I believe (but I might be misremembering), but if you F12 and look at the location during the Melia/Emma encounter, you'll see that's it's called Zeight. This, in conjunction with Melia's dialogue about the obelisk calling out to her at the end of v13, heavily suggests a connection between Melia and the interceptor.

Spoiler

 

Maybe. I thought Zeight was just a mental space? Maybe I am remembering wrong. 

 

We do know that the Archtype IS Arceus (told by Nymeria in her story during ch12), and the MC also has part of Arceus in them (well part of the deity that became Arceus anyway). So Maybe that is the connection? 

 

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

5 hours ago, Iamteehee said:

I believe (but I might be misremembering), but if you F12 and look at the location during the Melia/Emma encounter, you'll see that's it's called Zeight. This, in conjunction with Melia's dialogue about the obelisk calling out to her at the end of v13, heavily suggests a connection between Melia and the interceptor.

 

In light of these hints I'm starting to agree with Melia's mantra "I am not Maria."

[JK’S]

Regarding Maria, I feel like she gave Melia the archetype, or the archetype was transferred to Melia somehow, in the ruined timeline, we find out Melanie is Amelia counterpart, and she doesn’t possess the archetype and tried to steal it from Melia instead, so Melia possibly didn’t have the archetype originally.But if melanie is Melia counterpart it doesn’t explain why she’s a child while Melia is an teenager/young adult. So this is kinda a wild theory 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

6 hours ago, JK’S said:

Regarding Maria, I feel like she gave Melia the archetype, or the archetype was transferred to Melia somehow, in the ruined timeline, we find out Melanie is Amelia counterpart, and she doesn’t possess the archetype and tried to steal it from Melia instead, so Melia possibly didn’t have the archetype originally.But if melanie is Melia counterpart it doesn’t explain why she’s a child while Melia is an teenager/young adult. So this is kinda a wild theory 

 

I don't fully understand how Melanie is Melia's counterpart either and the age difference is one of the main reasons but I don't see how Melia acquired the Archetype in the ruined AU unless perhaps it was that Variya woman?

Don't forget that she still had the special ability to guarantee shiny Pokemon since before the beginning of the game's timeline. 

 

It's come to my attention that one of the changes in V13's writing is that after Melia's alleged death in Amethyst cave Ren tells the interceptor: "You might have just met her but you two seemed to click right away as if you've known each other for years" which sounds an awful lot like a foreshadow to @Iamteehee's theory that Melia is somehow connected to the interceptor. 

 

Could Melia be like the interceptor? A soul from another world placed inside of Maria's body?