One more attempt to figure out Madame X identity [Spoilers, obviously]

[Cyphre]

Spoiler

Spoiler

So, since we now have v13 with a tiny bit more info about world resets and Garufa, i've decided to try and compile whatever popular theories we have at the moment, while trying to argue with and against each of them. We probably still lack crucial info to accurately guess who it is, but we can still make an effort.

First off, some general points that need to be addressed: 

1) Madame X is almost certainly a woman. Her voice is obviously fitting for a woman as no one made a remark about it, her outfit is very... feminine, as well as her sprite show very long hair. That completely rules out Madame X being a son of Nymiera and Vitus (assuming they were people in that legend) that seemingly died in the First War. 
2) She wears a mask. No matter the medium, there is only one justifiable reason for a villain to wear a mask: to hide a face. Meaning either us, the player, or characters would immediately recognize the person under the mask. I personally respect Jan's writing skills, so this completely rules out a possibility of it being a person we never met.
3) Madam X is a remarkably strong combatant without pokemon, as well as her signature pokemon pretty much being an Yveltal, who clearly got some connection to Vitus-Indriad (see picture). It had 3 major appearances: Blacksteeple castle alongside Madame X, ruined future alongside Melanie, and as a witness of 2 people's apparent death's: Taelia and Nora. 
4) Her mother died protecting her, either directly or indirectly. This is an important point that can be twisted several ways.
5) We can sort of make out her appearance from the moment Sakitron broke her helmet. She's got considerably long straight black hair and kind of a normal skin colour. I might be colourblind, but to me it looks much lighter than the whole Sashila people thing, as well as Nymiera or Alexandra. 
6) IIRC, please correct me if im wrong, time crystal protects it's owner from overlapping with it's counterpart in the same time. Thus if her past self is alive in this main timeline or not is irrelevant. 



Theory 1: Madame X is Anathea Theolia

Personally, i think it's a stretch at best. We do not know her mother. She was not an important participants in all 3 Yveltal appearances. While hair colour can change, her colour is light blond and it's natural, which shows in all her children. Also a little matter of her being currently dead. If she in the future somehow got out of Soul stone and came back, it still doesnt explain any of her actions and her attitude towards Melia, who she would pretty much consider her child. 

Theory 2: Madame X is Melia

This is certainly a possibility, however i have mostly doubts about it. Melia doesnt know her mother, and even if she considered Anathea one, she hardly died protecting her. Even suppose she survived some crazy dark shit in the future, Melia is a positive and reasonable person and a complete 180 into a Fullmetal Biatch like Madame X is hardly an option. She would find a different way to address the problem. 

Theory 3: Madame X is Marianette

This one is the most likely theory, albeit it's The Boring One. Protectors fight in Hiyoshi happened > some time after that we entered Indriad's mansion in the past. Back there Marianette, filled with hatred towards Indriad, used whatever Archetype/Ancient Garufan magic she had to turn Indriad into an Yveltal, enslaving him, explaining why we havent seen him in present days, also explaining Yveltal Madame X got. It could be her mother is Anathea, who was sacrificed on the Altar for some Garufan magic in every world reset or every timeline, like we have seen in a prologue too. Protecting in this sense means taking Marianette's place on the altar. And while she calls her a fool, chances are because those sacrifices achieved nothing. It is also very likely she remembered all the previous world resets, and she undoubtedly can have a very different personality from that than our mansion encounter with her. 

Theory 4: Madame X is The First Human

While it is heavily implied that Nymiera is the First Female of this world, this is not set in stone. It is very possible that even millenia after her feud with Vitus and through all world resets, she still wages war on Vitus Theolia and all her actions and team Xen are working towards fully destroying him and his plans. While this theory doesnt have much to support it, it is a distinct possibility that is hard to deny. 

Theory 5: Madame X is Nora Royer

This one is my favorite and i personally hope it's true. Taelia died to protect Nora in the most direct way. What we have seen: Nora fell down from the cliff, there was a lot of blood. Then her soul was taken and she seemingly turned to stone just like Nim. Even if she didn't, all we know is that she was seriously hurt and then her soul was taken. If i remember correctly, her fate after that is unknown. Her soul could easily be placed into a construct or an empty armor like the one that was created in Sheridan cave. Of course, there are enough problems with this theory, but this one is very plausible as well. 

Theory 6: Madame X is Erin

This one was born mostly only in v13, after she repeated Madame X words from prologue word for word. God knows what happened to her in Unown dimension, she does have a body that should have some Archetype compatibility, no-nonsense attitude. In our knowledge, however, Anathea didnt die protecting her. I do not like this one personally, but it is possible now.


I also skimmed through game files and did not find a single character model who would resemble Madame X face without helmet, so this meta approach did not work. 

 

[SharlaSmith44]

1 hour ago, Cyphre said:

Personally, i think it's a stretch at best. We do not know her mother. She was not an important participants in all 3 Yveltal appearances. While hair colour can change, her colour is light blond and it's natural, which shows in all her children. Also a little matter of her being currently dead. If she in the future somehow got out of Soul stone and came back, it still doesnt explain any of her actions and her attitude towards Melia, who she would pretty much consider her child. 

Spoiler

Anethea's hair is black, as shown in the cutscene of the revelation of the spell that made Vitus love her. I think the implication of the Archetype's power that made her hair blonde.

 

[kithas]

I don't know where the bit about Madame X's mother is from. I could see her being Anathea, it has been said (either Hiyoshi City or Zone Zero) she had originally dark hair (the golden scheme was from the Archetype, and her children we know are not biologically from her). She also would have a strong reason to oppose Indriad.  She was the one who had Melia originally (and then gave her to Jenner) so I could see it tying up with the Melia-is-Maria's clone theory: Madame X took the Archetype from Maria/Marianette and gave it to a clone to harvest it later and use it as a weapon against Indriad.

Regarding him, he was absorbed by Anjou in a flashback shown in Angie's arc, although I'm not sure if it was "real" or just "metaphorical" lol

 

I could also see Madame X being Marianette with the rest of the theory keeping the same (taking the Archetype from herself and giving it to a clone etc).

[Calentz]

Did it say somewhere she was a natural blonde?  I ask because Anathea is shown to have had 2 hair colors so far:  Black and blonde.  The later we've seen for ourselves when we went to the past, the former is shown in a cutscene in chapter 15 and there's also the hospital documents In Isha's office that list her having black hair (though i'm not really sure how that would work since it'd kind of be in the wrong timeline , unless it was a record from Isha's father).  There's a more supporting plot point that would lead us to believe her hair was originally black then turned blonde than there is for the other way around.

[Dausk]

4 hours ago, Cyphre said:

1) Madame X is almost certainly a woman. Her voice is obviously fitting for a woman as no one made a remark about it, her outfit is very... feminine, as well as her sprite show very long hair. That completely rules out Madame X being a son of Nymiera and Vitus (assuming they were people in that legend) that seemingly died in the First War. 
2) She wears a mask. No matter the medium, there is only one justifiable reason for a villain to wear a mask: to hide a face. Meaning either us, the player, or characters would immediately recognize the person under the mask. I personally respect Jan's writing skills, so this completely rules out a possibility of it being a person we never met.
3) Madam X is a remarkably strong combatant without pokemon, as well as her signature pokemon pretty much being an Yveltal, who clearly got some connection to Vitus-Indriad (see picture). It had 3 major appearances: Blacksteeple castle alongside Madame X, ruined future alongside Melanie, and as a witness of 2 people's apparent death's: Taelia and Nora. 
4) Her mother died protecting her, either directly or indirectly. This is an important point that can be twisted several ways.
5) We can sort of make out her appearance from the moment Sakitron broke her helmet. She's got considerably long straight black hair and kind of a normal skin colour. I might be colourblind, but to me it looks much lighter than the whole Sashila people thing, as well as Nymiera or Alexandra. 
6) IIRC, please correct me if im wrong, time crystal protects it's owner from overlapping with it's counterpart in the same time. Thus if her past self is alive in this main timeline or not is irrelevant. 

As I've stated before, the individual with the closest matching skin color (that I have found) would be Amber/Deagan. Assuming a stupid twist does not occur (such as Madame X being an entirely new character), I believe Madame X to be someone in the Deagan/Kenneth family. I think Madame X being Amber would make sense, as it would match the criteria, and Tesla is an established mother who would be willing to sacrifice herself for others. Also, the game has continued to give Amber more screen time despite her irrelevance to the story (although that can also be said about a few characters). Regardless, the hair could be dyed; was Nora's skin color similar to Madame X's? I can't seem to recall that.

[Mageknight]

I'd like to add an important detail about the Madame X armor. In the same scene where her mask gets broken, she says something one the lines of "if it weren't for the accursed armor..." This could mean that the armor somehow limits her abilities, which means that she had some kind of power previously. But this brings up the question of why she needs to wear the armor anyway. She could be wearing it to hide her identity, but that doesn't seem like the kind of reason to wear it in exchange for limiting her. My guess is that, assuming she is from another time, this armor is what protects her from erasure or overlapping.

[Pryde]

3 hours ago, Cyphre said:

So, since we now have v13 with a tiny bit more info about world resets and Garufa, i've decided to try and compile whatever popular theories we have at the moment, while trying to argue with and against each of them. We probably still lack crucial info to accurately guess who it is, but we can still make an effort.

First off, some general points that need to be addressed: 

1) Madame X is almost certainly a woman. Her voice is obviously fitting for a woman as no one made a remark about it, her outfit is very... feminine, as well as her sprite show very long hair. That completely rules out Madame X being a son of Nymiera and Vitus (assuming they were people in that legend) that seemingly died in the First War. 
2) She wears a mask. No matter the medium, there is only one justifiable reason for a villain to wear a mask: to hide a face. Meaning either us, the player, or characters would immediately recognize the person under the mask. I personally respect Jan's writing skills, so this completely rules out a possibility of it being a person we never met.
3) Madam X is a remarkably strong combatant without pokemon, as well as her signature pokemon pretty much being an Yveltal, who clearly got some connection to Vitus-Indriad (see picture). It had 3 major appearances: Blacksteeple castle alongside Madame X, ruined future alongside Melanie, and as a witness of 2 people's apparent death's: Taelia and Nora. 
4) Her mother died protecting her, either directly or indirectly. This is an important point that can be twisted several ways.
5) We can sort of make out her appearance from the moment Sakitron broke her helmet. She's got considerably long straight black hair and kind of a normal skin colour. I might be colourblind, but to me it looks much lighter than the whole Sashila people thing, as well as Nymiera or Alexandra. 
6) IIRC, please correct me if im wrong, time crystal protects it's owner from overlapping with it's counterpart in the same time. Thus if her past self is alive in this main timeline or not is irrelevant. 



Theory 1: Madame X is Anathea Theolia

Personally, i think it's a stretch at best. We do not know her mother. She was not an important participants in all 3 Yveltal appearances. While hair colour can change, her colour is light blond and it's natural, which shows in all her children. Also a little matter of her being currently dead. If she in the future somehow got out of Soul stone and came back, it still doesnt explain any of her actions and her attitude towards Melia, who she would pretty much consider her child. 

Theory 2: Madame X is Melia

This is certainly a possibility, however i have mostly doubts about it. Melia doesnt know her mother, and even if she considered Anathea one, she hardly died protecting her. Even suppose she survived some crazy dark shit in the future, Melia is a positive and reasonable person and a complete 180 into a Fullmetal Biatch like Madame X is hardly an option. She would find a different way to address the problem. 

Theory 3: Madame X is Marianette

This one is the most likely theory, albeit it's The Boring One. Protectors fight in Hiyoshi happened > some time after that we entered Indriad's mansion in the past. Back there Marianette, filled with hatred towards Indriad, used whatever Archetype/Ancient Garufan magic she had to turn Indriad into an Yveltal, enslaving him, explaining why we havent seen him in present days, also explaining Yveltal Madame X got. It could be her mother is Anathea, who was sacrificed on the Altar for some Garufan magic in every world reset or every timeline, like we have seen in a prologue too. Protecting in this sense means taking Marianette's place on the altar. And while she calls her a fool, chances are because those sacrifices achieved nothing. It is also very likely she remembered all the previous world resets, and she undoubtedly can have a very different personality from that than our mansion encounter with her. 

Theory 4: Madame X is The First Human

While it is heavily implied that Nymiera is the First Female of this world, this is not set in stone. It is very possible that even millenia after her feud with Vitus and through all world resets, she still wages war on Vitus Theolia and all her actions and team Xen are working towards fully destroying him and his plans. While this theory doesnt have much to support it, it is a distinct possibility that is hard to deny. 

Theory 5: Madame X is Nora Royer

This one is my favorite and i personally hope it's true. Taelia died to protect Nora in the most direct way. What we have seen: Nora fell down from the cliff, there was a lot of blood. Then her soul was taken and she seemingly turned to stone just like Nim. Even if she didn't, all we know is that she was seriously hurt and then her soul was taken. If i remember correctly, her fate after that is unknown. Her soul could easily be placed into a construct or an empty armor like the one that was created in Sheridan cave. Of course, there are enough problems with this theory, but this one is very plausible as well. 

Theory 6: Madame X is Erin

This one was born mostly only in v13, after she repeated Madame X words from prologue word for word. God knows what happened to her in Unown dimension, she does have a body that should have some Archetype compatibility, no-nonsense attitude. In our knowledge, however, Anathea didnt die protecting her. I do not like this one personally, but it is possible now.


I also skimmed through game files and did not find a single character model who would resemble Madame X face without helmet, so this meta approach did not work. 

 

Honestly the theory of her being Maria is the one that makes the most sense to me. 
At this point we DEFINITELY know she's a woman, as she directly points it out in the ruined future. On top of that a lot of theories make sense about it. At one point the Puppetmaster mentions a poem or prophesy, and please forgive me for not getting the quote, but it mentions someone that is split in two. 

I like the theory that Maria split herself, as Melia has mentioned that while she is similar she herself is not Maria. Not to mention that we also know that now Melia is not taking the Archtype too well which could be a side effect of her not being a complete person herself. 
It could also explain her knowledge about overlapping and IIRC (I may be mistaken here) she has mentioned not wanting Melia to touch her... Keep in mind that, for some reason, she is also protecting the protagonist at some points.

People can change a lot over time and it's no stretch to imagine her personality changing as she grows older, the armor could be being used to either suppress her power for whatever purpose, or it could be being used to maintain her place in that space time, perhaps keeping beings like Spacea/Tempea from noticing her and being able to interfere?
The bit about her hair can also be explained away quite easily, I mean look at Anathea, she had blonde hair when we met her, but all other records, ESPECIALLY the ones that the puppet master showed us say she had black hair (Liiiiike... Madame X) though the keyhole mark on the back of the neck has me guessing that may just be a Servant playing the part?
It could ALSO be an effect of the Archtype as there have been records of people's hair/eyes/skin changing color to gold when affected, but if the power is removed sometimes the features will turn back to normal. It could potentially be Maria after the effects of the Archtype are removed somehow? Or her powers were put into Melia during the split so that she could move more freely or remain free of some constraint/unknown downside belonging to the power.

Well anyway, I'm not trying to debunk any theories, just saying this one makes the most sense to me personally and while it is not my favorite theory, it's the one I'm running with at the moment.  Also this is my first time posting anything like this so please go easy on me XD

Edited August 22, 2021 by Pryde

[Pryde]

2 hours ago, kithas said:

I don't know where the bit about Madame X's mother is from. I could see her being Anathea, it has been said (either Hiyoshi City or Zone Zero) she had originally dark hair (the golden scheme was from the Archetype, and her children we know are not biologically from her). She also would have a strong reason to oppose Indriad.  She was the one who had Melia originally (and then gave her to Jenner) so I could see it tying up with the Melia-is-Maria's clone theory: Madame X took the Archetype from Maria/Marianette and gave it to a clone to harvest it later and use it as a weapon against Indriad.

Regarding him, he was absorbed by Anjou in a flashback shown in Angie's arc, although I'm not sure if it was "real" or just "metaphorical" lol

 

I could also see Madame X being Marianette with the rest of the theory keeping the same (taking the Archetype from herself and giving it to a clone etc).

Maybe I'm missing/forgetting something, but how do we know that the children aren't from her? 
As far as I remember they only mentioned that they can't have a father, but children can be brought either directly into existence, or a woman can be made directly pregnant using the Archtype's power. 
And while the clone/split theory (also slightly strengthened by the poem given when you first meet Puppetmaster) is also the most likely in my mind, it has me confused as to how they then ended up with Zetta, why bother with him if she could create clones, unless they wanted to see if they could create clones from clones or something like that. It could be useful to not exhaust herself every time I suppose, or perhaps there's a limit to it. 

The Marianette (Maria) theory also makes sense in another way, since Madame X was seen with Black hair and Anathea (Potentially) originally had black hair, so if they used the Archtype to get her pregnant with Maria, then later Maria removed the Archtype from herself she could possibly have her hair turn black. Lots of speculation and such, but it's the best I've got at the moment XD

[MhicKy]

My response to the theories:
 

Spoiler

Theory 1: Madame X is Anathea Theolia - I don't think she's Anathea, afteral, she is dead and trapped inside the Soul Stone so it makes no sense to me..
Theory 2: Madame X is Melia - Also unlikely or else the story wouldn't make sense since, as we saw on the Narcisa sidequest if 2 instances of the same person stays in the same timeline the universe tries to correct it by either deleting one of them (or both, we don't know exactly what happens but something happens) and both Madame X and Melia exist for a very long time so..
Theory 3: Madame X is Marianette - VERY unlikely, the MC had a huge impact on Marianette yet when Madame X meets the MC she has no reaction at all, she literally just meet us for the first time in Blacksteep Castle, it would be weird for her to forget the MC like that.
Theory 4: Madame X is The First Human - Yeah, there's really no real evidence for this one so I don't think that makes any sense at all..
Theory 5: Madame X is Nora Royer - It's an interesting one but I still feel like it's not correct, Madame X isn't just an empty shell, there is a person inside the armor so the theory crumbles there, also, there really isn't any reasoning for Nora to join Team Xen so far so I think that ain't it.
Theory 6: Madame X is Erin - I also feel like this one is very unlikely, an interesting one but for some reason I just can't believe that's what Jan would be going for.. To get Erin to be buddy-buddy with Melia in a nice sister bond moment to then reveal Erin was Madame X is a bit.. Counter productive..

Here are MY personal theories from least likely to most likely:
#1 - Madame X is Naved's daughter - Didn't saw anyone thinking about that one but, again, what's the skin and hair color of Madame X? Brown skin, dark hair but the most important thing, RED EYES, Naved has heterochromia, one of his eyes is blue and the other is RED, since we only saw one side of Madame X's face we can't say for sure what color the other eye is but going purely on genetics it fits quite well, it would also explain why Naved is the only one who can keep her anger at bay when she's already well-know to lose her temper and go overboard quite quickly, tho' the silver bullet of this theory is the fact that both Naved's daughter and her exist without overlaping so..

#2 - Madame X is a character we still don't know about - Instead of just trying to figure out who she is based on the characters we know, she might just be an entire new person that is a complete mystery, it's anti-climatic but it would make sense.. I would even sprinkle that she might be the daughter of the founder of Team Xen, it would also explains how she became the leader, being the next in line, like an heir.

#3 - Madame X is the daughter of Nimyera and Victus - If you look at her skin and hair color, she is brown-skinned but not black, Nimyera is black, Victus is white, both have dark hair as well and that would explain her physical strength to a degree too, I feel like the main objective of Team Xen is to defeat Victus, that's -my- canon, I could be completely wrong but if I go with that explanation it would make sense, Victus betrayned Nimyera and started the first Pokemon war, it was said that their son tried to protect the Archetype but was killed in battle, the betrail plus the death of her brother could had been the thing that kicked off her anger towards her father and the reason she might be going after the Archetype is not only to keep it away from Victus but to use it to destroy him, but that theory only holds if the meaning of Team Xen really is the destruction of Victus, we also don't know how many children Nimyera and Victus had, we only know of a son that was killed so, since we don't know yet, it's unlikely even if it's an interesting one.

#4 - Madame X is one of the patients in the Garufan Facility - There were many test subjects on the Garufan facility, some of them are reported to die but the other were left to their fate (with even the revelation of Emma being one of them), before entering we see Madame X saying to herself that it's better for Melia to see it with her own eyes, so my theory is that she is one of the subjects that failed to acquire the Archetype power within her body and is forced to use her suit of armor to keep her from dying, it would also explain why there's so many grunts and scientist in there, maybe they're looking for a cure of sorts? It feels weird that Madame X allows us to go there and find that facility, there gotta be some meaning to that somewhere..

But I don't even believe my theories tbh.. Only when v14 we can hope for more clues..

[Cyphre]

3 hours ago, Pryde said:

Keep in mind that, for some reason, she is also protecting the protagonist at some points.

She explains that it's because, somehow, MC is important for the events, which she didnt even know about in their first interactions and until MC died a couple of times. Which also makes me wonder why she wasnt surprised at seeing us at all, or seemingly did not recognize us in her first interactions with MC. While it is possible she just did not show it, it wouldnt make much sense if Madame X was Marianette or Anathea, since they were familiar with each other. 
 

6 hours ago, SharlaSmith44 said:

Anethea's hair is black, as shown in the cutscene of the revelation of the spell that made Vitus love her. I think the implication of the Archetype's power that made her hair blonde.

I forgot about that, that is true. However why then cancel her Archetype powers if her goal is to harm Vitus in any way? Did they go away naturally or she was a victim of the Genesis Syndrome in this case? I was under the impression people die from it. 

 

4 hours ago, Mageknight said:

I'd like to add an important detail about the Madame X armor. In the same scene where her mask gets broken, she says something one the lines of "if it weren't for the accursed armor..."

I believe it is the same way for her as for Deathwings, for whom armor becomes part of their body and basically a prison. We still dont know the implications of it. 

 

3 hours ago, Pryde said:

it has me confused as to how they then ended up with Zetta, why bother with him if she could create clones

Yeah, this is why i almost immediately canceled the cloning theory. 

 

[kithas]

The cloning thing would help explain why the time difference (Maria had 10 years in Kugearen, around 40 years ago) and why Melia, an original component of the Archetype, gets rejected by it. They may had wanted to sped up her process with Zetta or maybe they were created as alternatives at the same time, a Solosis and just a clone. 

Anathea's children not being biologically hers is shown in V13 when Indriad wishes for them to appear from Arceus.

And her behavior could be that she just forgot about the MC or that this is an alternative version of whoever it is. 

 

I think we could also take into account Nastasia's figure into account, not as Madame X's identity, but as someone important to her: she seems to do whatever she wants without any of the fear Madame X inspires in the rest of the Xen cast, Madelis notes that she has nothing on the line to fight for, we know she cares for Maria and remembers the past pretty well, and Xen HQ is in her old company's place. For me it points to Madame X being her mom (not very probable) or one of the Theolias (Anathea getting revenge for Maria, Marinette opposing her father...) 

[321_King_123]

Well, dont forget... Travel between timelines is now canon, as we saw with Clear and Kieran. So, its possible Madame X could be one of the main cast of characters... Or not. As MhicKy said, with the Narcisa sidequest, we know if two entities stays in the same timeline, the universe will either delete one, or delete both. HOWEVER

Do we really know how this thing works? correct me if im wrong.. But in Narcisa quest, we just saw Narcisa from the same timeline, but of different times, we saw a past-Narcisa with a present Narcisa, and because of this, the universe tried to delete one (Really, idk if what im saying is 100% true, been months ive seen this sidequest), do we know if someone from a timeline, travels for another timeline, the universe will act the same? (Like... Im a timeline, Melia ID is 2300, so, if there is 2 2300 ID entitys at the same place, something is wrong. But lets say that Melia from an alternative timeline, her ID is 2301.. It isnt the same ID, so perhaps the universe will not overlap one or another?) 

 

But lets say that, if 2 entitys enter the same timeline.. one must be deleted. I read somewhere, that Madame X needs an insane amounts of ennergy from people for a plan or something, what if Madame X is Melia, and the universe is trying to delete Madame X.. But, for her to not be deleted, she needs to keep collecting ennergy to recover what the universe is trying to delete, just like Nim, that needs ennergy to sustain the storm-9 inside her. Annddd, Yvetal is her signature mon.. Yvetal is know for draning the vital-ennergy of things, and just leave empty shells. With this, Madame X can collect and absorb the vital ennergy to not get erased

 

(ps: sorry for the bad english.. english isnt my primary language)

[Pryde]

5 hours ago, Cyphre said:

She explains that it's because, somehow, MC is important for the events, which she didnt even know about in their first interactions and until MC died a couple of times. Which also makes me wonder why she wasnt surprised at seeing us at all, or seemingly did not recognize us in her first interactions with MC. While it is possible she just did not show it, it wouldnt make much sense if Madame X was Marianette or Anathea, since they were familiar with each other. 

Sorta, but on the other hand how can she know? The whole purpose of the Interceptor is that they CAN'T be predicted. They are outside Fate's weave. So perhaps she believes MC is important, but doesn't know for sure... perhaps because the Interceptor being active means time was reset, maybe SHE reset the timeline? 
And then that brings to mind the question about how far does the reset go? Does it go all the way back to when Arceus created everything? Does it go back to when the Core was created? Does it just reset to when the user's life began? Can the user designate a time for the reset? Is it possible she performed the reset, and the armor is what's keeping her there and stable?

Also as for the Marianette bit it can still make sense, she only has brief interactions with your character, so while familiar it's not a lasting interaction AND also they have no idea about MC being the Interceptor, but what DID happen is that she's seen us at two very different stages of her life and we haven't aged at all between those two times. (I keep on wanting to put my MCs name instead of writing "MC")

Not to mention that she could also just be pretending to not know them... it's not exactly unheard of and has already happened in this story ('Nastasia and Ren) even though he's eventually sorta figured it out at this point she wasn't doing more than hiding with sunglasses. 

 

5 hours ago, Cyphre said:

I forgot about that, that is true. However why then cancel her Archetype powers if her goal is to harm Vitus in any way? Did they go away naturally or she was a victim of the Genesis Syndrome in this case? I was under the impression people die from it. 

 

Maybe she had no choice in the matter? It wasn't revealed if there's a way to strip the abilities from someone, or if there's potentially a way for her to lose them... and then there's the possibility of her having passed them to someone else for a different purpose (Such as when Melia offered hers to Nim).

I don't think it'd be Genesis syndrome as it has shown a 100% fatality rating from what we've been shown, which is heart-breaking for Melia's case. It said that internally she's already aged to what was it? 75? 
I highly doubt that would be the case with Maria as she is a being created by the Archtype, where as I think Genesis Syndrome is from people being bestowed the power. 

Logically speaking I think the highest chance is that either she gave the power away, (Perhaps to avoid some hidden effect we don't know about) got it stolen from her somehow, or she has simply taken extra steps to hide her identity by dying her hair. Though I suppose there's also the chance that the whole purpose of the suit, which has black shards as parts of the make-up iirc, is to keep her alive because of Genesis syndrome.

 

5 hours ago, Cyphre said:

Yeah, this is why i almost immediately canceled the cloning theory. 

 

Well I don't think it's grounds to cancel the theory entirely, there are many possible reasons to want to experiment with this. If it worked then they could create more like him and open rifts in multiple places at the same time. Perhaps creating a clone drains something, be it life-span, power, perhaps it's why she lost the archtype power, assuming she is Maria.

 

1 hour ago, 321_King_123 said:

Well, dont forget... Travel between timelines is now canon, as we saw with Clear and Kieran. So, its possible Madame X could be one of the main cast of characters... Or not. As MhicKy said, with the Narcisa sidequest, we know if two entities stays in the same timeline, the universe will either delete one, or delete both. HOWEVER

Do we really know how this thing works? correct me if im wrong.. But in Narcisa quest, we just saw Narcisa from the same timeline, but of different times, we saw a past-Narcisa with a present Narcisa, and because of this, the universe tried to delete one (Really, idk if what im saying is 100% true, been months ive seen this sidequest), do we know if someone from a timeline, travels for another timeline, the universe will act the same? (Like... Im a timeline, Melia ID is 2300, so, if there is 2 2300 ID entitys at the same place, something is wrong. But lets say that Melia from an alternative timeline, her ID is 2301.. It isnt the same ID, so perhaps the universe will not overlap one or another?) 

 

Well for that I personally look at the destroyed timeline, there wasn't much of an issue with Melia and the Princess being in the same time for the moment, over time perhaps, but right then? Nah, nothing immediate anyway. They did state that eventually one would randomly be erased, which was why they needed to Overlap.
It makes sense, then starts making me wonder who caused the whole incident with the Ultra Beasts... because they specifically used Nihilego (iirc, I always get confused between them) which is a parasite that does the same, drains people of their energy. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Pryde

[Cyphre]

16 minutes ago, Pryde said:

It makes sense, then starts making me wonder who caused the whole incident with the Ultra Beasts... because they specifically used Nihilego (iirc, I always get confused between them) which is a parasite that does the same, drains people of their energy. 

It looked to me more like Nihilego was just a consequence of Storm-9, that also spawns a horde of Ultra Beasts for good measure. Chances are Clear and Kieran are from the world already ravaged by Storm-9 and that is why they both have an UB at their disposal, probably because they are fairly common from where they came from. 

[Pryde]

3 hours ago, Cyphre said:

It looked to me more like Nihilego was just a consequence of Storm-9, that also spawns a horde of Ultra Beasts for good measure. Chances are Clear and Kieran are from the world already ravaged by Storm-9 and that is why they both have an UB at their disposal, probably because they are fairly common from where they came from. 

Though if that's the question then what about the empty nuke with the Gafuran writing? I'd have thought that perhaps they used that to bring in one Nihilego, which attracted more of them. 
Though it could be other things, it was the first thing I thought of after all this. 
Please keep in mind that I have very little knowledge of the Ultra Beasts themselves other than what I've seen in this game and little bits I skimmed over on the wiki, so don't hesitate to point out holes in my theory. 
Though, now thinking of this... Booker has mentioned that Rifts and Ultra Wormholes are similar... I wonder if Team Xen is trying to create their own version of an Ultra Beast...

[Nox Omen]

9 hours ago, Cyphre said:

She explains that it's because, somehow, MC is important for the events, which she didnt even know about in their first interactions and until MC died a couple of times. Which also makes me wonder why she wasnt surprised at seeing us at all, or seemingly did not recognize us in her first interactions with MC. While it is possible she just did not show it, it wouldnt make much sense if Madame X was Marianette or Anathea, since they were familiar with each other. 

 

Madame X only protected the MC after knowing they were the Interceptor. Since she knows what the Interceptor is, she may as well know that if the Interceptor dies a certain amount of times, the Core is destroyed and life on Earth ends. Because of this she as more than enough reasons to save the MC (especially since in V13 we discovered that neither of the Interceptors, MC and Dahlia, have chances to die left).

If, for example, Madame X didn't save us in Kugearen, the world would be doomed and all she worked for would be in vain.

[Nox Omen]

4 hours ago, Pryde said:

Sorta, but on the other hand how can she know? The whole purpose of the Interceptor is that they CAN'T be predicted. They are outside Fate's weave. So perhaps she believes MC is important, but doesn't know for sure... perhaps because the Interceptor being active means time was reset, maybe SHE reset the timeline? 
And then that brings to mind the question about how far does the reset go? Does it go all the way back to when Arceus created everything? Does it go back to when the Core was created? Does it just reset to when the user's life began? Can the user designate a time for the reset? Is it possible she performed the reset, and the armor is what's keeping her there and stable?

 

The time was reset only once and by the Interceptor. This is said by Aelita when she explains Amethyst Grotto's function. 

[Nox Omen]

11 hours ago, MhicKy said:

My response to the theories:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Theory 1: Madame X is Anathea Theolia - I don't think she's Anathea, afteral, she is dead and trapped inside the Soul Stone so it makes no sense to me..
Theory 2: Madame X is Melia - Also unlikely or else the story wouldn't make sense since, as we saw on the Narcisa sidequest if 2 instances of the same person stays in the same timeline the universe tries to correct it by either deleting one of them (or both, we don't know exactly what happens but something happens) and both Madame X and Melia exist for a very long time so..
Theory 3: Madame X is Marianette - VERY unlikely, the MC had a huge impact on Marianette yet when Madame X meets the MC she has no reaction at all, she literally just meet us for the first time in Blacksteep Castle, it would be weird for her to forget the MC like that.
Theory 4: Madame X is The First Human - Yeah, there's really no real evidence for this one so I don't think that makes any sense at all..
Theory 5: Madame X is Nora Royer - It's an interesting one but I still feel like it's not correct, Madame X isn't just an empty shell, there is a person inside the armor so the theory crumbles there, also, there really isn't any reasoning for Nora to join Team Xen so far so I think that ain't it.
Theory 6: Madame X is Erin - I also feel like this one is very unlikely, an interesting one but for some reason I just can't believe that's what Jan would be going for.. To get Erin to be buddy-buddy with Melia in a nice sister bond moment to then reveal Erin was Madame X is a bit.. Counter productive..

Here are MY personal theories from least likely to most likely:
#1 - Madame X is Naved's daughter - Didn't saw anyone thinking about that one but, again, what's the skin and hair color of Madame X? Brown skin, dark hair but the most important thing, RED EYES, Naved has heterochromia, one of his eyes is blue and the other is RED, since we only saw one side of Madame X's face we can't say for sure what color the other eye is but going purely on genetics it fits quite well, it would also explain why Naved is the only one who can keep her anger at bay when she's already well-know to lose her temper and go overboard quite quickly, tho' the silver bullet of this theory is the fact that both Naved's daughter and her exist without overlaping so..

 

In that case, I believe she would hold Madelis dearly, instead os slashing her for her failures since Madelis met and interacted quite a bit with Neved and Maman's daughter, Francesca, when she had to go to the Hospital of Hope.

However, if Madame X never slashed Madelis, she would never have met Francesca. Even so I still don't think that's the case, so if you don't believe much in your theories I guess you can discard this one.

[Pryde]

34 minutes ago, Nox Omen said:

 

Madame X only protected the MC after knowing they were the Interceptor. Since she knows what the Interceptor is, she may as well know that if the Interceptor dies a certain amount of times, the Core is destroyed and life on Earth ends. Because of this she as more than enough reasons to save the MC (especially since in V13 we discovered that neither of the Interceptors, MC and Dahlia, have chances to die left).

If, for example, Madame X didn't save us in Kugearen, the world would be doomed and all she worked for would be in vain.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but she saves the MC during your first visit to Kugearen when the maid causes the explosion... however she only truly realizes you're the Interceptor during the Ruined Future event... or did they change that now?

 

31 minutes ago, Nox Omen said:

 

The time was reset only once and by the Interceptor. This is said by Aelita when she explains Amethyst Grotto's function. 

 

She said it's potentially us. We're one of the possibilities and the most likely one. Even the whole thing with Andrast, it doesn't specifically say that he'll only awaken when time is turned back, only that when he is needed, and that we were the one that woke him up, we don't have specifics on that bit. I mean it does make sense as the Interceptor project is linked to the Core, just as the Reset mechanism is, however that's all still speculation. 

[Nox Omen]

58 minutes ago, Pryde said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but she saves the MC during your first visit to Kugearen when the maid causes the explosion... however she only truly realizes you're the Interceptor during the Ruined Future event... or did they change that now?

 

 

She said it's potentially us. We're one of the possibilities and the most likely one. Even the whole thing with Andrast, it doesn't specifically say that he'll only awaken when time is turned back, only that when he is needed, and that we were the one that woke him up, we don't have specifics on that bit. I mean it does make sense as the Interceptor project is linked to the Core, just as the Reset mechanism is, however that's all still speculation. 

 

Nothing confirms that she knew the MC was the Interceptor at the time but nothing denies it as well.  Since she has the Time Diamond, when she saved them she could already know they were the Interceptor. The Madame X that saved them at Kugearen, from the way she talked, seemed to know o lot more about them that the Madame X we regularly see. Also she already suspected they were the Interceptor, but only confirms it in the Lost Future.

 

It is true that the MC is just likely the one that reset time. But Madame X being the one that reset the time just implies a lot of unlikely situations, like discovering the location and way to access the Amethyst Grotto, providing it 5 souls without the soul stone and even learning what it is and how it works. So I assumed that the one that reset time was indeed the Interceptor.

[Cyphre]

3 minutes ago, Nox Omen said:

Nothing confirms that she knew the MC was the Interceptor at the time but nothing denies it as well.

She very directly says. while reviving you after the blast, that "you are very important for this time, i dont know why yet, but i will find out". She did not know MC was an Interceptor by this point in time, and even is she had a guess, she did not connect the dots yet. 

[Nox Omen]

11 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

She very directly says. while reviving you after the blast, that "you are very important for this time, i dont know why yet, but i will find out". She did not know MC was an Interceptor by this point in time, and even is she had a guess, she did not connect the dots yet. 

 

I didn't remember precisely what she said but I had the idea that she didn't show doubt about their function. In that case sorry for pointing that out.

I'd like to add that if I come of as rude to anyone it isn't intentional. I'm just trying to help reducing the flaws in the theories.

[0ris]

So something crossed my mind.

We know it's possible to carry souls around. The soulstone the player carries, whatever Crescent did after she juiced the Nihilegos to get the A-team's souls back, etc.

What if Madame X is someone we know's soul put into a machine body as we saw in the Amethyst Caves? It's not as functional as she'd like since the controls might not be perfect (Ren glitching out when he gets whacked), but it might also explain her Terminator-like resilience and unfamiliar appearance.

 

Another idea I've had is, to figure out the culprit, we need to figure out their motivations.

We already know Team Xen's current goal involves sacrificing an enormous amount of people, similar to Father in Fullmetal Alchemist's giant circle.

Garufan magic costs lives to create stuff. Crests are the most prominent example, but it's certainly possible that there might be some sort of "Human Crest" created by sacrificing human lives, and that the battling and violence that Xen appreciated on Blacksteeple may be part of the ceremony.

Another important question to consider is, "What is Garufan magic?" The civilizations we saw from a previous loop of existence (as they're stated to have no Pokemon left by both Ana and by material found in the Den of Souls) seemed far more scientific than magical, but that might be because they were at the very tail-end of their timeline.

I wonder if there's anything else that might explain Team Xen's motivations.

[Pryde]

22 hours ago, Nox Omen said:

 

Nothing confirms that she knew the MC was the Interceptor at the time but nothing denies it as well.  Since she has the Time Diamond, when she saved them she could already know they were the Interceptor. The Madame X that saved them at Kugearen, from the way she talked, seemed to know o lot more about them that the Madame X we regularly see. Also she already suspected they were the Interceptor, but only confirms it in the Lost Future.

 

It is true that the MC is just likely the one that reset time. But Madame X being the one that reset the time just implies a lot of unlikely situations, like discovering the location and way to access the Amethyst Grotto, providing it 5 souls without the soul stone and even learning what it is and how it works. So I assumed that the one that reset time was indeed the Interceptor.

True! She could have seen effects and as pointed out she knows that the MC is important somehow, I'm curious how she knows, but that aside you have a valid point that she can't predict where the grotto is. Even if things changed as they do with the reset, locations likely wouldn't change so that rules her out completely at this point. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Nox Omen said:

 

I didn't remember precisely what she said but I had the idea that she didn't show doubt about their function. In that case sorry for pointing that out.

I'd like to add that if I come of as rude to anyone it isn't intentional. I'm just trying to help reducing the flaws in the theories.

Pft, don't worry about it, it's fun! I'm, personally, thoroughly enjoying this!

 

18 hours ago, 0ris said:

So something crossed my mind.

We know it's possible to carry souls around. The soulstone the player carries, whatever Crescent did after she juiced the Nihilegos to get the A-team's souls back, etc.

What if Madame X is someone we know's soul put into a machine body as we saw in the Amethyst Caves? It's not as functional as she'd like since the controls might not be perfect (Ren glitching out when he gets whacked), but it might also explain her Terminator-like resilience and unfamiliar appearance.

 

Another idea I've had is, to figure out the culprit, we need to figure out their motivations.

We already know Team Xen's current goal involves sacrificing an enormous amount of people, similar to Father in Fullmetal Alchemist's giant circle.

Garufan magic costs lives to create stuff. Crests are the most prominent example, but it's certainly possible that there might be some sort of "Human Crest" created by sacrificing human lives, and that the battling and violence that Xen appreciated on Blacksteeple may be part of the ceremony.

Another important question to consider is, "What is Garufan magic?" The civilizations we saw from a previous loop of existence (as they're stated to have no Pokemon left by both Ana and by material found in the Den of Souls) seemed far more scientific than magical, but that might be because they were at the very tail-end of their timeline.

I wonder if there's anything else that might explain Team Xen's motivations.

 

On the first bit, suuure, but then the purpose of the armor seems a bit redundant. There'd be no need to wear it right? 

As for the Gafurans... I find that a very fun topic personally as they, rather than choosing one or the other, seem to mix magic and tech, both of which I assume they gained from studying the Archtype. It is also entirely possible that it is ALL technology... "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." 
Though that's unlikely in a fantasy world. Okay gonna slow down there before I end up writing a novel on this, but yes, I'm quite fascinated by Ana and her "Grandmother" as they're obviously from a future or alternate timeline. And on that same vein it brings along the questions about why Mosely and such are experiencing memories and moments from the ruined future. 

I think it's less that Blacksteelpe was necessary than it was a convenient location. Not to mention that we have yet to explore the SECOND Blacksteeple that was covered by the barrier. 
We have to consider also (regarding Team Xen) The name, the motives. Now why choose an organization that was destroyed with the death of it's leader? And then on top of it how is Huey involved in that? (He is not really Rune's brother, they both woke up in the Void Chasm after the Nuclear Explosion... now I wish Nucleon was in this game. ANYWAY!)

[Cyphre]

18 minutes ago, Pryde said:

why Mosely and such are experiencing memories and moments from the ruined future. 

It wasnt Mosely, it was Cosmia. Mosely did not appear since we finished her questline with lost camp. 
 

18 minutes ago, Pryde said:

And then on top of it how is Huey involved in that?

I actually have a weird theory about that. 2 dead bodies were identified, according to the documents. One was Freya, another one was lord Xenadin, former leader of team Xen. Now we know from Rune that this was a lie since she was Freya. So who was the second person in the report? ...that's right, Xenadin. So one of my working theories is that Huey IS lord Xenadin. Obvious problem is, when he fell into Voidal Chasm with Rune, he was 6 years old. However 1) VC messes around with people memories and with time 2) child prodigies is nothing new in pokemon universe.