ame Ame Liddell's "semi-semi-canon" team

[TheRK9]

So a couple weeks back, Oscarus made this post, with his take on Ame's team if we were to fight her in the game.

Spoiler

y'know, assuming she doesn't like die or anything before we get to.

His team was Absol, Lopunny, Alolan Ninetales, Bisharp, Krookodile and Keldeo. I think this is an interesting team, and I really like the idea of her having a Lopunny and Keldeo. However, I do have a couple of issues with it. 
First of all, Oscar prioritizes lore over gameplay, which makes sense, since he writes fanfiction. That is perfectly fine, but it isn't the way I personally prefer, and it isn't really what the game does either. For a champion battle in a game like Reborn, this team is way too weak and uncoordinated. Only Absol OR Lopunny can mega evolve, and both of them are very weak without it. She was also made into a Dark type specialist, but her team currently has no resistance to Fighting and Fairy types. Being restricted to having most of your team of one type isn't good for a champion, and even in vanilla Champions typically use a variety of types, with the exceptions of gens 2, 3 and 5. 
This team also doesn't play off of Reborn's main source of difficulty; Field Effects. 
    
But instead of just leaving a comment on why I don't think this team is ideal, I decided to see if I could make my own team. I won't be ignoring lore, but it won't be the main focus of the team, as is a trend with a lot of battles in Reborn. For example, it doesn't make sense for e.g. Corey to have a team of NFE's, but the gameplay requires it. I would also like to mention that while Ame will have a dev battle, as confirmed by Marcello, those are most likely separate from canon lore, so I will just assume that this is an alternate timeline where we battle Ame in as the champion in the main story. There will also be some changes to some field effects in Episode 19, but I'm not taking those into account because I don't know them :).
     
Overall, my idea would be to give Ame the 2 pokémon she is confirmed to have, choose the most appropriate Field Effect, both in terms of gameplay and lore, and then figure out the rest of her team. First off, she is confirmed to have Absol and Alolan Ninetales. The Absol should most definitely be her mega, even though Luna already uses one, because regular absol is kinda sorta fucking terrible. As for a field effect, there is a decent amount of overlap for field effects that benefit both of these pokémon, with those fields being: 
Dark Crystal Cavern, Mirror Arena, New World Field, Short-Circuit Field, Starlight Arena and Fairy Tale Field. 
    
New World Field, although it would be interesting, doesn't fit in terms of lore, Mirror Arena is a bit too, with lack of a better word, vain considering Ame's humble personality. Short-Circuit Field is too common around the game, and also doesn't fit. Dark Crystal Cavern is a bit too niche, like it would never really appear naturally in lore outside of Iolia Valley, and it also sucks about as much as Luna does. That leaves us with Starlight Arena and Fairy Tale Field. That leaves us with Starlight Arena and Fairy Tale Field, both of which fit Ame relatively well and are very strong field effects. I had originally chose Fairy Tale Field, since it benefits Absol a lot more and allows Ninetales to keep Snow Warning, which would destroy Starlight Arena. However, Starlight Arena allows Ninetales to set up Aurora Veil without hail, allowed for some other interesting options for teammates, and isn't as abusable by the player. It also has a fabulous battle background that is criminally underused, and I think it fits Ame a little better.

I would like to mention that Starlight Arena can be destroyed by simply setting up weather, and Reborn players fucking love weather teams, and completely cheesing a champion fight that easily is a big no-no. So I took a leaf out of Adrienn's book and decided to just stack a Fairy Tale field underneath this one. It is a bit boring to use the exact same secondary field as Adrienn, but as I said, Fairy Tale field was the second best fit, and it can conveniently not be altered by any mean, which further cheese-proofs the team.
     
So, I believe Ame should be fought on the Starlight Arena. I chose to design the team for singles for the sake of simplicty, but you could go either way with the format. So, with a focus on creating a stronger and more balanced team suitable for a Champion, here is my take on Ame's Champion Team:
     
 (It is assumed that all of her pokémon have perfect IV's with benefitial EV's and Natures, so I excluded them for the most par for the sake of shortening the post)

 

Alolan Ninetales
Item: Light Clay

Ability: Snow Cloak

Moves: 

- Moonblast

- Aurora Beam

- Aurora Veil

- Encore

 

The first obvious entry. This is a fairly regular supportive Aurora Veil Ninetales set, which is incredibly helpful considering the rest of Ame's team is full of set-up sweepers. The only irregular thing is that it is forced to run Snow Cloak in order to not destroy the field effect, but it doesn't hinder it much considering the fact that it can set up Aurora Veil without hail on Starlight Arena. It also gets a slight boost to it's ice type STAB, but more importantly a whopping 1.95x boost to Moonblast. Encore rounds out the set nicely, by preventing something that resists its attacks from setting up too much.

 

Mega Absol
Item: Absolite

Ability: Justified

Moves: 

- Knock Off

- Sucker Punch

- Superpower

- Swords Dance

 

Mega Absol appreciates the boost to it's Dark type moves. They also become part Fairy type, which comes with both benefits and restrictions. It can no longer be checked defensively by Dark and Fighting types, but in turn it means that Absol has no means of hitting Poison and Fairy types for neutral damage. With the 1.5x boost and Mega Absol's naturally high attack though, even a resisted hit will not be taken too well.

 

Lucario
Item: Focus Sash

Ability: Steadfast

Moves: 

- Meteor Mash

- Close Combat

- Extreme Speed

- Swords Dance

 

At first glance this Pokémon is not very strong compared to the rest of Ame's team. However, not only does it put some pressure on Dark and Fairy types, which are otherwise very strong on this field, but Meteor Mash is doubled in power on Starlight Arena. It is guaranteed to survive a hit due to it's Focus Sash, and 180 Base Power Meteor Mash is pretty difficult to switch into. Besides that, it has some decent sweeping potential with Swords Dance and Extreme Speed.

 

Latias
Item: Magical Seed

Ability: Levitate

Moves: 

- Draco Meteor

- Psyshock

- Calm Mind

- Healing Wish

 

Yes, I gave her legendaries, this is a champion fight, it's fine. The Eon duo are among the Pokémon that benefit the most from the Starlight Arena, with the boost 1.5x Boost to Psychic type moves and 2x Boost to Draco Meteor making you think you're playing Gen 5 OU again. The magical seed also offers a free +1 Special Attack, and Latias is bulky enough to even set up. The main weakness for Latias is it's newly aquired 4x weakness to Dark, so I gave it Healing Wish as an escape button since it boosts up it's teammates on this field. I also predicted Lin to have a Latios on her team, so it is fitting that Ame would have its more defensive counterpart.

 

Victini

Item: Normalium Z

Ability: Victory Star

Moves: 

- Searing Shot

- Stored Power

- Dazzling Gleam

- Celebrate

 

This entry shouldn't be surprising to anyone who knows of the effects of Starlight Arena. Victory Star boosts all of Victini's moves by 50%, on top of the 50% boost to Psychic type moves. Searing Shot is a reliable, 100 base power Fire type STAB, and Dazzling Gleam provides coverage for Dark types, a type which Victini is also no longer weak to. The main danger of this set however is the omni-boost from Z-Celebrate. In combination with the omni-boost, the boost to Psychic type moves and the boost from Victory Star, Stored Power reaches an effective Base Power of 405 with only 1 turn of setup.

 

Lunala
Item: Lum Berry

Ability: Shadow Shield

Moves: 

- Moongeist Beam

- Moonblast

- Calm Mind

- Moonlight

 

I wasn't sure on whether or not this was one step too deep into the broken shit rabbit hole^TM, but I realised that this is still probably easier than the fly swatter that is Lin's Arc-PULSE anyways so I decided to include it. Shadow Shield halves all incoming damage on Starlight Arena IN ADDITION to it's regular effect. Both Moonblast and Moongeist Beam effectively double in power due to the field effect, and Moonlight provides 75% healing, meaning Shadow Shield will almost always be active. I was very conflicted on whether or not this should have Calm Mind or the doubled Cosmic Power. The more offensive variant leaves Lunala more vulnerable to terrain boosted Dark and Ghost type moves, but the more defensive variant could most likely just get stalled out by a Specially Defensive pokémon, especially due to Moongeist Beam's low HP. I decided to settle for the more offensive variant, since with the boosted Shadow Shield and potentially Aurora Veil being set up Lunala could likely survive even a 6x effective move and fire back with an OHKO. This set could a lot of different EV spreads to survive certain hits or be fast enoug to outrun certain threats. It could run 56 Speed EV's to outspeed Pokémon like Tyranitar and Incineroar, 144 Speed to outspeed Mega Tyranitar, Honchkrow, Bisharp and Decidueye, 228 Speed to outspeed Chandelure and Mega Gyarados (which is especially scary due to Mold Breaker), or simply run max speed to outspeed Mimikyu, Drapion and Krookodile. What I'm trying to say is this Pokémon has way too many options and is way too broken.

So anyways, that's my take on if we fought Ame as the champion. I wanted to try and choose Pokémon that were not just strong, but either kind or serene to suit Ame's personality, and I think I struck a solid balance. It's hard to tell what level of difficulty is suitable since Episode 19 isn't out, so I sort of had to guess the level. Thank you all for reading, and lmk what could be improved about this team!

[Oscarus]

32 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

First of all, Oscar prioritizes lore over gameplay, which makes sense, since he writes fanfiction. That is perfectly fine, but it isn't the way I personally prefer, and it isn't really what the game does either. For a champion battle in a game like Reborn, this team is way too weak and uncoordinated.

It hurts... It really hurts, but I have to admit - you're right. I myself have admitted that this team is somewhat easy to exploit in the games. Maybe if I created a field which could power it-...  hm, I think I've got an idea for my 6th Field (yes, I've - in the span of 10 days - created five of them; are they good? Depends on community view).

Also, in game I gave her Mega Lopunny and Absol, because while normal Absol is just decent, normal Lopunny is useless. In games, of course - in lore I had Ame's Lopunny break one of thieves' spines with High Jump Kick, then demolish the others, even without the help of Adrienn and Oscar, who were literal feet away from her.

35 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

Being restricted to having most of your team of one type isn't good for a champion, and even in vanilla Champions typically use a variety of types, with the exceptions of gens 2, 3 and 5. 

Only half of team was Dark. All canon Champions with type specialities have at least 3 Pokemon with that type:

• Lance has 3 Dragon-types in Johto games (4 in HGSS rematch)
• Steven has 3 Steel-types 
• Wallace has an entire Water team
• Alder has 3 Bug-types
• Iris has 3 Dragon-types
• Mustard has 3 Fighting-types
• Peony has an entire Steel team

I know that the last two are fought after thier reigns, and thier teams are usually more balanced (emphasis on usually: Lance's entire team is weak to Rock prior to adding on Garchomp in the rematches - and then they asked how I won with Rollout Typhlosion). But I added that they can be repaired with "a bit illegal movesets" which aren't as rare in Pokemon as you think. Because... not every Pokemon has as wide coverage as Nidoking or Tyranitar. 

46 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

It also has a fabulous battle background that is criminally underused, and I think it fits Ame a little better.

It is rumored it will be the battlefield of Elite Four Fantasia... because as of right now it is one of the two fields which aren't seen anywhere as of V18 (the other being, of course, New World Field)

50 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

I would like to mention that Starlight Arena can be destroyed by simply setting up weather, and Reborn players fucking love weather teams

I do! As someone whose ace in the game (and in "lore" ("game", "anime" and "manga)) is Tyranitar (Sacronian in the "lore" part), I tend to run Sandstorm teams, as I did while playing some Gen V online metagame. And tell me... isn't there any better way to bully Ame than using weather which she hates the most-

54 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

decided to just stack a Fairy Tale field underneath this one

that's, uh, one way to suprise the player. Also both use Magical Seeds and have quite similiar effects. But... is this possible, to stack two unique Fields at once? I know you theorically can stack unique one and the elemental one (Electric/Grass/Psychic/Fairy)

59 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

 (It is assumed that all of her pokémon have perfect IV's with benefitial EV's and Natures, so I excluded them for the most par for the sake of shortening the post)

Or just give 'em all PULSE2... or bullshit and create completely custom EV sets, if you want to give them nightmares

I still do... That 3276 EV Assasult Vest Mega Garchomp...

The sounds of Solaris' piano still resonate within my brain. So much that I wasn't even amused by remix of that notes in Legends: Arceus, as I wasn't impressed - I've already had PTSD

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

Encore rounds out the set nicely, by preventing something that resists its attacks from setting up too much.

Are you sure you didn't mean Taunt? You know, the status move preventing other status moves from working?

Encore makes the target repeat the last done move for a few turns. So, if something that walls Ninetales has a self-boosting move, and is locked in due to Encore, you're basically helping them (unless you decide to switch to something that has supereffective damage, but AI may not be that smart)

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

They also become part Fairy type, which comes with both benefits and restrictions. It can no longer be checked defensively by Dark and Fighting types, but in turn it means that Absol has no means of hitting Poison and Fairy types for neutral damage

A small price for salvation. But given Absol's fraility, even neutral hits will hurt.

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

it has some decent sweeping potential with Swords Dance and Extreme Speed

Anyone who had the unluck of facing that combo in the Gym Battle against Samson, or Gen V Ubers, knows how effective it is. But if the AI is dumb, that can be easily exploitable by - for example - using Trick/Switcheroo with Choice Specs

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

Yes, I gave her legendaries, this is a champion fight, it's fine.

Yeah, I admit on that one... but the legendaries given to her are, and I'll say it: just for added difficulty. As I don't believe none of them would work in lore:

• For me, Latias would work best with Saphira, because - as I've written like 3 times on this forum - Latias is a Latios' "sister" (usually, but other blood relationships exist), Saphira has siblings too. and she and Damian are pararells: final, Dragon Leaders of thier leagues, younger sibling is one of the Elite, mother is/was an OP Trainer, protective af, and more. And he has a Latios, so she could have a Latias.
• Victini is said to give thier "partners" an ability to always win, no matter what............. but for Ame it didn't work
• Lunala... admit it, she's there purely to make this battle more difficult

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

In combination with the omni-boost, the boost to Psychic type moves and the boost from Victory Star, Stored Power reaches an effective Base Power of 405 with only 1 turn of setup.

However, that leaves Victini vulnerable for 1 turn. And do remember there are many ways to deal with boosted monsters: mainly Roar/Whirlwind, Haze and Destiny Bond.

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

Mega Gyarados (which is especially scary due to Mold Breaker)

Quick message: Shadow Shield cannot be supressed nor ignored. So Mold Breaker doesn't work

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

It's hard to tell what level of difficulty is suitable since Episode 19 isn't out

Definetly some hardcore one. We're basically stepping into pre-Angie Rejuvenation Insane Mode difficulty (and maybe post, I'm not a balancing expert). But I can already feel the thrill~

 

Though and though, this team is what her team would be if Reborn had a different difficulty modes, and this is Insane. The non-legendary theme is extremely good, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but the legendaries are bonkers. But the analysis, concept and preparations are great.

[TheRK9]

21 hours ago, Oscarus said:

It hurts... It really hurts, but I have to admit - you're right. I myself have admitted that this team is somewhat easy to exploit in the games. Maybe if I created a field which could power it-...  hm, I think I've got an idea for my 6th Field (yes, I've - in the span of 10 days - created five of them; are they good? Depends on community view).

I wanted to make the team in line with what could realistically happen in the game, and they are not creating any more field effects, so I wanted to fit a team into the context of the existing field system.

21 hours ago, Oscarus said:

Also, in game I gave her Mega Lopunny and Absol, because while normal Absol is just decent, normal Lopunny is useless.

Describing Absol as "decent" is way too generous, it doesn't do anything literally every decent Dark type does. Since Ame doesn't have a Lopunny in official lore, it is pretty pointless to put one on her team since her mega is pretty much decided anyways.

21 hours ago, Oscarus said:

Only half of team was Dark. All canon Champions with type specialities have at least 3 Pokemon with that type:

• Lance has 3 Dragon-types in Johto games (4 in HGSS rematch)
• Steven has 3 Steel-types 
• Wallace has an entire Water team
• Alder has 3 Bug-types
• Iris has 3 Dragon-types
• Mustard has 3 Fighting-types
• Peony has an entire Steel team

The issue is that this is main series, and some of the weaker main series champions at that. And even then, Lance, Iris and Wallace are only type specialists because they converted from being Gym Leaders and Elite Four Members. Alder isn't actually a Bug type specialist, he just happens to have 3 Bug types, and if you look at his PWT team he only has 1. And Steven is also not specifically a Steel type trainer, he just likes studying caves and rocks, hence he would naturally have plenty of Steel and Rock types. 

 

None of the champions are type specialists just for the sake of being type specialists, it's either because they became League members first and forced into a single type or because it was in line with their character, neither of which is true for Ame. 

21 hours ago, Oscarus said:

But I added that they can be repaired with "a bit illegal movesets" which aren't as rare in Pokemon as you think. Because... not every Pokemon has as wide coverage as Nidoking or Tyranitar. 

Illegal movesets in Pokémon are typically due to accidents like a coding error or minor inconsistencies like moves being mutually exclusive or unobtainable at a certain level, or moves that are available in a different generation. When a completely illegal move is taught, it is still typically a move that the Pokémon should reasonably be able to learn, such as Water Gun Alomomola. This is something that Reborn also does, and I don't mind it, but when you start to give Pokémon completely different movesets it starts to stray far away from what could reasonably happen in the game.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

It is rumored it will be the battlefield of Elite Four Fantasia... because as of right now it is one of the two fields which aren't seen anywhere as of V18 (the other being, of course, New World Field)

I am aware, I put it as her field in my Elite Four predictions, but it would still only be used for one (1) battle before post-game, which I think fits the description "underused".

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

that's, uh, one way to suprise the player. Also both use Magical Seeds and have quite similiar effects. But... is this possible, to stack two unique Fields at once?

Exactly this already happens during Adrienn's gym battle. One field effect is in place but another one takes over in case the initial one is removed. Contrary to Adrienn, Ame doesn't actually have a strategy revolving around this, but it is simply put in place to even out the difficulty.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

Are you sure you didn't mean Taunt? You know, the status move preventing other status moves from working?

Encore makes the target repeat the last done move for a few turns. So, if something that walls Ninetales has a self-boosting move, and is locked in due to Encore, you're basically helping them (unless you decide to switch to something that has supereffective damage, but AI may not be that smart)

No, Encore is a better move than Taunt in almost every situation, and if more Pokémon could learn it Taunt would see a lot less use. 
I'll create a scenario for you:

Imagine you lead off with a bulky sweeper that resists Ice and Fairy, like Swords Dance Mega Mawile. You set up Swords Dance as Ninetales sets up Aurora Veil. 

If Ninetales uses Taunt, you just kill it and you keep your +2 Mega. Worst case scenario is you got too greedy and it forces you to take a hit, but that's it.

If Ninetales uses Encore, you're forced to use Swords Dance 3 more times or switch, and you get 3HKO'd by 182 Base Power Moonblast before you get to even move.

Taunt prevents you from setting up, Encore punishes you for setting up. There is a clear distinction, and any experienced player will tell you that the latter is a lot better.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

Or just give 'em all PULSE2... or bullshit and create completely custom EV sets, if you want to give them nightmares

Again, giving Ame PULSE2's or other illegal EV's isn't in line with what happens in the rest of the game, and is frankly a really boring way to create difficulty.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

23 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

it has some decent sweeping potential with Swords Dance and Extreme Speed

Anyone who had the unluck of facing that combo in the Gym Battle against Samson, or Gen V Ubers, knows how effective it is. But if the AI is dumb, that can be easily exploitable by - for example - using Trick/Switcheroo with Choice Specs

I've grown quite fond of this combination during BDSP OU myself. But for Specs Trick to work you would need to 1. play on switch mode, which is boring, and 2. prepare for the fight in advance.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

For me, Latias would work best with Saphira, because - as I've written like 3 times on this forum - Latias is a Latios' "sister" (usually, but other blood relationships exist), Saphira has siblings too. and she and Damian are pararells: final, Dragon Leaders of thier leagues, younger sibling is one of the Elite, mother is/was an OP Trainer, protective af, and more. And he has a Latios, so she could have a Latias.

Rejuvenation isn't canon to the Reborn world, so there isn't any reason to draw parallells between the two. There are also several of the Eon duo, as with a lot of legendaries, so there is no reason why they can't both use one. In post-game, several characters will have multiple legendaries, so there is no reason why any of them should be exclusive to any one trainer.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

Victini is said to give thier "partners" an ability to always win, no matter what............. but for Ame it didn't work

That's anime shit, it's obviously not true in the games. It is also *said* to always bring victory, it is a piece of folklore, not a fact about the Pokémon itself.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

• Lunala... admit it, she's there purely to make this battle more difficult

Solaris' Excadrill is just there to make the battle more difficult. 
Blake's Mamoswine is just there to make the battle more difficult.

Fern's Haxorus is just there to make the battle more difficult. 

They could've had lots of different Pokémon that vaguely fits their character, but these in particular were chosen because, you guessed it, it makes the battle more difficult. 

That is literally the point of balancing a game, and that is how almost every Pokémon for every trainer is chosen. There doesn't have to be a reason why a trainer has a certain Pokémon, as long as there isn't a reason why they shouldn't have it. It is never stated that legendaries aren't allowed within the Reborn League, or that Ame doesn't have any legendaries, or that Lunala is out somewhere in the wild. There aren't that many guidelines to making teams for trainers other than making sure the fight is difficult enough, and that bar is a lot higher in Reborn than in vanilla.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

However, that leaves Victini vulnerable for 1 turn. And do remember there are many ways to deal with boosted monsters: mainly Roar/Whirlwind, Haze and Destiny Bond.

If it was this simple, competitive would be really easy.

Once again, this requires you to already have the check out before she sets up, which is unlikely (unless you play on switch mode, but again, ew). And even if you get rid of the boosts with Roar or Haze, you still haven't, you know, beaten the Pokémon. You use 2 turns to switch in, and Haze/Roar, to counter her 1 turn of set up, and likely taking a hit in the process. If you can find a Pokémon that doesn't get 2HKO'd by a set up move into a regular move, let me know, because there is exactly 1 available Pokémon that resists Fire, Psychic and Fairy, and Delphox is not very bulky. The best option for taking neutral hits is Chansey, and even max SpDef Chansey gets 2HKO'D by Stored Power, and has no way to reset Victini's stat boosts. The best defensive check would be SpDef Mandibuzz, which survives 2 Dazzling Gleams and Whirlwinds it out. But even then, you've lost 85% of your Mandibuzz, haven't even damaged the Victini, and you'll just get revenge killed.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

Quick message: Shadow Shield cannot be supressed nor ignored. So Mold Breaker doesn't work

Extra effects from abilites in field effects are ignored by Mold Breaker. So even though Shadow Shield's regular effect would still be in play, the halfed damage from the Starlight Arena would be ignored. This may or may not be a bug, but it is still worth considering.

22 hours ago, Oscarus said:

Though and though, this team is what her team would be if Reborn had a different difficulty modes, and this is Insane. The non-legendary theme is extremely good, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but the legendaries are bonkers.

I don't know if I agree. Considering the point in the game, this fight isn't the highest difficulty peak in Reborn by any means. Giving trainers Legendaries isn't unprecedented, and even happens on several occasions in vanilla. In addition, legendaries=/=difficulty. I am still a lot more scared of Lin's Hydreigon than Ame's Lunala, and Ame also has no reason to use PULSE2's or the most broken field effects etc. If this was insane mode I would have given her better Pokémon, even if they didn't really fit her character quite as well. Maybe a Dusk Mane Necrozma and an Unbound Hoopa. Insane mode is typically just that: the logic is thinner, but the game is harder. 
The team you made is quite close to vanilla difficulty, but that would be quite the easy mode for Reborn. This is a fairly normal mode, and lots of trainers will have legendaries in Reborn to fit the difficulty requirements.

[Oscarus]

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

Describing Absol as "decent" is way too generous, it doesn't do anything literally every decent Dark type does. Since Ame doesn't have a Lopunny in official lore,

I simply really like Absol, so couldn't bring myself to saying that... mmm. The only thing it can do is hit, like, really hard (having the same Attack stat as Garchomp). Other than that... 

Also while Ame wasn't shown to have Lopunny, it is hinted she has one - Lopunnite is in her office for a reason. 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

when you start to give Pokémon completely different movesets it starts to stray far away from what could reasonably happen in the game.

Of course. You can cheese or cheat a little, but don't overdo it. I actually have two examples of that: a good and a bad one, while creating custom battle. 

The good one is giving Tyranitar Dragon Hammer, because it should be given to more Pokemon than just some palm tree or flying grass dinosaur, and Tyranitar is very dragon-like (plus learns lots of Dragon moves) 

The bad one is giving Haxorus Extreme Speed... the thing I regret to this very day. 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

Exactly this already happens during Adrienn's gym battle. One field effect is in place but another one takes over in case the initial one is removed

But this is Misty Terrain - one of the four "base" Fields. So they can stack with other special ones. Like, I've seen on a playthough that there was stacked Electric Terrain with Chess Field during Radomus' Gym Battle. 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

Taunt prevents you from setting up, Encore punishes you for setting up.

Oh, I get it now. 

The thing is... I very rarely use these moves in competitive, only in Random Battles. And any experienced player knows how to deal with both Taunt and Encore. 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

But for Specs Trick to work you would need to 1. play on switch mode, which is boring, and 2. prepare for the fight in advance.

I always play on Set Mode, and I was giving just an potential counter. It's not the best one, but it can work. 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

Solaris' Excadrill is just there to make the battle more difficult. 
Blake's Mamoswine is just there to make the battle more difficult.

Fern's Haxorus is just there to make the battle more difficult. 

Excadrill and Mamoswine are difficult to deal with, and it synchronizate well with thier themes and personalities. 

Haxorus... exists just to be annihilated. Seriously, every single one of Fern's Pokemon is weak to ice (before Scizor evolved from Scyther) - that's even worse balancing than I did for Ame. Yes, there are some coverage moves, but I did those too. And Haxorus is quite frail, strong, fast, but frail. 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

That's anime shit, it's obviously not true in the games. It is also *said* to always bring victory, it is a piece of folklore, not a fact about the Pokémon itself.

All the sources say it - in anime, manga and games (Pokedex entries). Whether that is fully true or not, that's debatable. 

But, if Victini wants, it helps - quite effectively

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

If it was this simple, competitive would be really easy.

Once again, this requires you to already have the check out before she sets up, which is unlikely (unless you play on switch mode, but again, ew). And even if you get rid of the boosts with Roar or Haze, you still haven't, you know, beaten the Pokémon. You use 2 turns to switch in, and Haze/Roar, to counter her 1 turn of set up, and likely taking a hit in the process. If you can find a Pokémon that doesn't get 2HKO'd by a set up move into a regular move, let me know, because there is exactly 1 available Pokémon that resists Fire, Psychic and Fairy, and Delphox is not very bulky. The best option for taking neutral hits is Chansey, and even max SpDef Chansey gets 2HKO'D by Stored Power, and has no way to reset Victini's stat boosts. The best defensive check would be SpDef Mandibuzz, which survives 2 Dazzling Gleams and Whirlwinds it out. But even then, you've lost 85% of your Mandibuzz, haven't even damaged the Victini, and you'll just get revenge killed.

This article is the summarization why I play competitive for fun, not for real.

Also, admit it, while played correctly, one mediocre Pokemon can demolish entire team. This is hard, on Reborn mechanics, but I'd be laughing if that happened. 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

This may or may not be a bug, but it is still worth considering.

Definitely a bug. On neither Fairy Tale Field or Starlight Arena it is said that Mold Breaker is boosted (or Wiki is incompleted) 

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

The team you made is quite close to vanilla difficulty, but that would be quite the easy mode for Reborn

6 Pokemon, with great synchronization, working perfectly on both Fields, with OP set-up... 

And you call it "easy" 

 

And here was I thinking I am a masochist. No offense, of course. 

But after recent plays of some Radical ROM Hacks, I think I'll pass on. 

[TheRK9]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

Also while Ame wasn't shown to have Lopunny, it is hinted she has one - Lopunnite is in her office for a reason. 

This is most likely a nod to the fact that Amethyst likes Lopunny, not that her in-game counterpart has one. Or maybe Ame has one on rotation, but either way she wouldn't use it for her Champion battle.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

The good one is giving Tyranitar Dragon Hammer, because it should be given to more Pokemon than just some palm tree or flying grass dinosaur, and Tyranitar is very dragon-like (plus learns lots of Dragon moves) 

Dragon Hammer is a headbutt used by pokémon with long necks, hence it wouldn't make sense for Tyranitar to learn it. Regardless it would be a pretty bad move for a Tyranitar to use.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

But this is Misty Terrain - one of the four "base" Fields. So they can stack with other special ones. Like, I've seen on a playthough that there was stacked Electric Terrain with Chess Field during Radomus' Gym Battle. 

The fields from vanilla aren't treated any differently than the other fields in the game if it was there from the start of the battle, so there is no reason why there couldn't be another field below Starlight Arena. Only one effect can be active at a time, but if that effect is removed there can be a different field underneath. If you use Fire Pledge+Grass Pledge in Ametrine Mountain you will stack a Burning Field on top of an Icy Field. If you then used Surf, it would remove the Burning Field, but instead of there being no field, it will return to an Icy Field.
This is the same case in Ame's battle. There is a Starlight Arena on top of a Fairy Tale Field. If the Starlight Arena is removed by setting up weather, then the field would become a Fairy Tale Field.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

The thing is... I very rarely use these moves in competitive, only in Random Battles. And any experienced player knows how to deal with both Taunt and Encore. 

Any experienced player knows how to deal with every move in the game, it's not quite as simple as that.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

Excadrill and Mamoswine are difficult to deal with, and it synchronizate well with thier themes and personalities. 

Not exactly. Blake's personality isn't particularly Mamoswine-like in any way, and there is no lore that would imply him having a Mamoswine. This could've just as well have been any strong-looking Ice type, but he has a Mamoswine because, you guessed it, it makes the game more difficult. If difficulty wasn't the main motivator, this could just as well have been a Glailie or a Beartic.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

All the sources say it - in anime, manga and games (Pokedex entries). Whether that is fully true or not, that's debatable. 

All of the sources say "it is said", not that it's true. The games confirm it's not true since it is possible to lose with a Victini on your team.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

Also, admit it, while played correctly, one mediocre Pokemon can demolish entire team. This is hard, on Reborn mechanics, but I'd be laughing if that happened. 

This is very often said by people who don't know how to rate Pokémon. 

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

Definitely a bug. On neither Fairy Tale Field or Starlight Arena it is said that Mold Breaker is boosted (or Wiki is incompleted) 

It isn't said because it's an interaction of mechanics that were created separately, not a mechanic itself. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bug, it's just not a feature.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:19 PM, Oscarus said:

6 Pokemon, with great synchronization, working perfectly on both Fields, with OP set-up... 

And you call it "easy" 

I was referring to the team you made. The team I made isn't an easy mode by any means, but it doesn't qualify as a hard mode since it isn't much more difficult than other fights in Reborn, and is probably easier than Lin will be.
If I was making a hard mode team, I would give Ame pokémon that fit her less well, but are more difficult to beat, such as a Dusk Mane Necrozma or Xerneas.

[Dark Legend]

So strong

[Oscarus]

2 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

Dragon Hammer is a headbutt used by pokémon with long necks, hence it wouldn't make sense for Tyranitar to learn it. Regardless it would be a pretty bad move for a Tyranitar to use.

And who said it has to be a head/neck? 

I mean-yeah, but only because it's used by A Exeggutor and Tropius. I always imagined Dragon Hammer to be used by Pokémon who have powerful, long limbs. Not necessarily necks and heads, but arms, legs and tails. And maybe normal Tyranitar won't get much use of it, my fanmade Sacronian Tyranitar will (especially when Mega Evolving, when it gets STAB). Also, in my game, I'd love to do some balancing; bigger or smaller. Fe.: giving Dragon Hammer chance to drop opponent's Defense or flinching, to not make it "just a bit stronger version of Dragon Claw"

7 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

This is very often said by people who don't know how to rate Pokémon. 

I'm just not a meta slave, duh. 

I care not only about tiering, but also asthetics, lore, and other elements. I'll be honest - I spit on those who care only about usefulness in games. Be that Pokemon, League of Legends, Genshin Impact or any other... Those belong to the most toxic people of the community; I speak from experience. And also weebs and other who cannot accept the existence of other dubs than Japanese. 

 

[TheRK9]

3 hours ago, Oscarus said:

And who said it has to be a head/neck? 

I mean-yeah, but only because it's used by A Exeggutor and Tropius. I always imagined Dragon Hammer to be used by Pokémon who have powerful, long limbs.

That’s just what the move does, hence it isn’t learned by any other Pokémon with short necks. It’s even an egg move, so if Gamefreak wanted to give it to Tyranitar, they could’ve, but they didn’t, because it doesn’t make sense.

 

Just because an aspect of a move isn’t specifically said in the name. Tyranitar can’t just use judgement because it can be judgemental, because that’s not what the move does. Dragon Hammer isn’t learned by any draconic Pokémon with the ability to hammer something, because Dragon Hammer isn’t a Dragon type equivalent of Ice Hammer.

3 hours ago, Oscarus said:

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

This is very often said by people who don't know how to rate Pokémon. 

I'm just not a meta slave, duh. 

That is pretty much the opposite of what I said. People who refer to Pokémon as “mediocre” fail to see the potential in matchups. “Niche” would be a more fitting term.

[Oscarus]

3 hours ago, TheRK9 said:

That is pretty much the opposite of what I said. People who refer to Pokémon as “mediocre” fail to see the potential in matchups. “Niche” would be a more fitting term.

Is that so? If yes, then forgive me. 

I just have VERY bad experience with meta slaves. 

 

And yes, normal Absol can be described as "niche". Unfortunately, only "niche", as in its' competitive tier of PU it has a strict rivalry with the only actual PU Dark type - Scrafty. The Pokemon isn't fast, it's really slow, but it isn't a problem since Absol already woundn't outspeed much of a anything. And Scrafty is much bulkier, plus has access to both Bulk Up and Dragon Dance (don't ask me why). 

Yes, Scrafty does have x4 weakness to Fairy, and that's a clear benefit in Absol's favor, as there are some Fairy Pokemon in the tier, like Ribombee or Aromatisse. 

 

Also, while I was checking... Are Galarian Articuno and Glastrier in PU too? Glastrier I get - despite me very liking the design, it's typing is awful defensively, and lacks of reliable recovery. But G-Articuno? With solid attack, good speed and decent bulk? Maybe that's because it's offensive moveset is bad, with the only non-Normal and non-STAB special attacks are Ancient Power and Shadow Ball. 

But what do I know? I'm not a competitive expert 

[TheRK9]

11 hours ago, Oscarus said:

And yes, normal Absol can be described as "niche". Unfortunately, only "niche", as in its' competitive tier of PU it has a strict rivalry with the only actual PU Dark type - Scrafty. The Pokemon isn't fast, it's really slow, but it isn't a problem since Absol already woundn't outspeed much of a anything. And Scrafty is much bulkier, plus has access to both Bulk Up and Dragon Dance (don't ask me why). 

Exactly. The opposite of a good Pokémon isn’t a bad Pokémon, it’s a niche Pokémon. Hence a bad or mediocre Pokémon can do exactly what a good Pokémon does, under specific enough circumstances. 
 

In early Gen 8 OU Meltan could PP Stall Ferrothorn. This didn’t make Meltan good, but it gave it a niche. Meltan no longer has this niche because of Magnezone though.

 

So back to the original point, the fact that a “mediocre” Pokémon can sweep strong teams, assuming it has a good enough matchup, isn’t too surprising.